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Old December 22, 2017, 11:53   #1
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45-70 AR?

Can't find where I read but it seems someone is making one in that caliber.
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Old December 22, 2017, 11:59   #2
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ew-45-70-auto/
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Old December 22, 2017, 13:40   #3
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I guess the 45-70 Auto is to the AR-10 what the 458 SOCOM is to the AR-15?
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Old December 22, 2017, 17:22   #4
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Looked very closely at all the pictures and reread the article.

Notice how much of case Web gets machined away to create the rebated rim. Most importantly look at the dent/crease/crack that almost looks like a split just below case mouth.



This case has similar dent/crease/crack in same area.



Check out less obvious dent/crease/crack looks more like scuffs in top round and gouge in case mouth on second round in magazine.



So you get 50 cases with rifle and rifle maker will be selling cases "soon". Sounds like they will continue to modify 45/70 cases and not having someone to tool up to make these cases. Other option is to turn yourself if own a lathe. The case head spaces on case mouth which would expect that to be hard on the case having mouth slammed into throat. Their examples for article look rough and if I were providing for review would show my best product. Something seems like this is going to be a very hard to feed rifle. They say nothing about case life but going to require trimming every load cycle and loaded ammo is not offered, just the 50 cases with the rifle and can't buy additional yet.

A $5,000 autoloading battle rifle can't shoot but 50 times till police up your brass and go back to loading bench. Say split a case or two first cycle and by third or fourth cycle my guess is case loss is going to be high. Unless have a quality small lathe and able to turn your own cases my guess is average owner might get to shoot it a couple hundred times before cases are shredded and waiting for manufacturer to begin selling additional cases. Sounds like a lot of money for a rifle can't shoot for lack or ammo. At $5,000 I would not buy unless came with a couple thousand cases as I don't own a lathe can cut these cases and would not be able to enjoy even taking to the range for fear of splitting or losing a case.
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Old December 22, 2017, 18:10   #5
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Because you can.

Which is a good-enough reason.

But, its the ONLY reason.
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Old December 22, 2017, 19:01   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Because you can.

Which is a good-enough reason.

.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+1


fixed it



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Old December 23, 2017, 09:45   #7
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Of course I have more than one rifle no factory ammo is offered but forming cases from commonly found are easy. 22-250 Ackley Improved pretty much just fire a 22-250 cartridge and then remember to use the 22-250 Ackley dies instead of standard. 7mm Practical just neck down a 300 Win Mag case then fire form. Can find 22-250 and 300 Win Mag cases about anywhere and often for free. Doubt the 45-70 Auto cases will be cheap.

Yes, I understand the "because you can" reasoning as about to build my first AR 10 in 308/7.62 NATO but have duplicates in 338 Federal and 6XC with two more actions and kits set aside for another non standard cartridge. Have so many 308 battle rifles building an AR 10 to add to pile made no sense till recemtly. With pile of M1a's, FN FAL's, L1a1's, H&K's, CETME's, etc why waste a jumbo AR on 308 cartridge when so many other cool options to run in the long action.

Looked at difference in 45 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, 45 Raptor and 45-70/45-70 Auto. If building an AR 10 would give up the very small advantage of the 45-70 Auto for the ability to buy 45 Raptor factory loaded ammo or brass from more than one source. Have the 458 SOCOM AR 15 on list of builds for 2018 along with a pair of 7mm-08 AR 10's and a 308 AR 10 just for ability to drop binary trigger in the 308 and a beta mag in mag well for a bush hog if need to cut that weeds down in the back yard. All of which make little sense.
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Old December 24, 2017, 01:05   #8
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It seems like they have just reinvented the wheel, but at high cost, no flexibility, and with limited practical use. On the other hand, if you want one, it's your money.
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Old December 24, 2017, 09:21   #9
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Added a pair of 45-70's when sold my Winchester 1886 collection. Purchased a pair of the Marlin 1895 laminated stock, stainless rifles and have them in my end of world kit. Put a Lee hand loader with each, 500 rounds of ammo, 5,000 primers and bullet mold. If world were to turn inside out after the first 500 rounds per rifle got swallowed could make black powder to feed if need and if primers were to run out could even repack old ones lIke reloading rimfire. I like 45-70, especially loaded down using handgun bullets. When find time and right person plan to have one of the 45-70 Marlins threaded for a suppressor.

Just think, for same money can buy a Barrett in 50 BMG as the 45-70 Auto and ammo is easy...
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Old December 30, 2017, 18:56   #10
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Most of y'all will remember these popping up in a discussion here a few months ago at $4,999 retail. Limited edition unique and way overpriced.



Now if anyone want one can cruise over to CDNN and pick them up for $2,399 which is less than half the release price under a year ago. So if want one of the 45-70 Auto AR's just wait a few months for them to start collecting dust, getting handling marks pulled on and off rack and CDNN oe Centerfire Systems will be selling the 45-70 AR's half price. Some things are just too goofy to gain a following at obscene cost.
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Old December 30, 2017, 19:12   #11
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45-70 thread drift

Back when I was young (late '70s or so), there was a local guy in Evansville IN named Earl Keller who made custom 45-70 revolvers. Yes, hand held, six-shooter revolvers in 45-70.

IIRC correctly he sold his business/patents to Century Arms (no idea if that is related to Century FAL stuff) and they moved the manufacturing away somewhere.

I know a couple of guys that bought them back in the days Earl Keller made then by hand. One of those is a single digit serial #. I have not seen one for years but I assume they are still floating around and for sale on occasion. I wish I had had the money and foresight to buy one back in the day, just for a novelty if nothing else.
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Old December 30, 2017, 20:21   #12
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I guarantee the .45-70 AR will not be giving yeoman's service in 144 years.

Revolver, eh?

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Old December 30, 2017, 20:39   #13
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Is it time to shine a UV light on the ARFCOM pages and laugh at them again?
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Old December 30, 2017, 23:49   #14
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Company is making a dual barrel 45-70 Derringer now. Can't imagine pulling trigger. I have owned Derringers in 44 mag, 45 Long Colt and bigger. They make zero sense. Recently sold my 500 Smith along with pair of 44 Automags, and other oppressive shooting handguns. A Freedom Arms and Taurus Raging Bull in 454 Casull are biggest handguns care to own at present. Have a dozen or more 44 magnums. I like the 45-70 cartridge in rifles. Lever rifles, falling block, etc but my guess is rifle that this thread is about has a one year shelf life. A few will buy hoping they become collectors pieces, a few will get lucky buying some at clearance to put back and then it will go the way of the dinosaur. Only chance it has would Starline to introduce brass for it.
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Old December 31, 2017, 02:58   #15
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Originally Posted by Invictus77 View Post
Back when I was young (late '70s or so), there was a local guy in Evansville IN named Earl Keller who made custom 45-70 revolvers. Yes, hand held, six-shooter revolvers in 45-70.

IIRC correctly he sold his business/patents to Century Arms (no idea if that is related to Century FAL stuff) and they moved the manufacturing away somewhere.

I know a couple of guys that bought them back in the days Earl Keller made then by hand. One of those is a single digit serial #. I have not seen one for years but I assume they are still floating around and for sale on occasion. I wish I had had the money and foresight to buy one back in the day, just for a novelty if nothing else.
My local pistol range had a single action Linebaugh revovler in 45-70 that you could rent for a $15. They also has a short barreled Ruger SRH in 454 Casull for rent as well. I have to wonder how many customers have actually shot a full cyclinder in either revolver?
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Old December 31, 2017, 09:47   #16
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My mom at age 74 stills rocks with a 44 magnum but will no longer shoot anything bigger in handguns. She doesn't choose to shoot 3" magnum 12 gauge anymore either but in her day would shove one full of BRI sabot slugs and chow down on a steel course finishing off ringing the 100 yard gong. She will still run a box of major power factor 45 through a 1911. Back when bowling pins were popular she was very methodical but her very determined transition from pin to pin would clear a table fast enough always tried to get her to go to tournaments. When men bring 1911's into LGS a couple weeks after buying to trade for a 9mm because they "kick too bad" can't help but think of the thousands of rounds mom ran through compact through unlimited IPSC guns in 45 and 38 super.

454 Casull is actually reasonable and feel it actually has a use. If I were fly fishing in Alaska would have one of my 454's on my hip and a 45-70 lever gun or 12 gauge loaded with slugs sitting on shore with my kit. Wife's bone disease and friends/relatives/strangers coming home from middle east all shot to crap and fubared up have really learned a lot about altering and fitting guns to handicapped. Have people in wheelchairs or missing half their hand that thought their shooting days were over and to see the joy on their face when get them back is great. If ever were to actually open a gun business full time think handicap and new shooters would be my specialty.

Honestly if these people worked out a more elegant solution to a 45-70 AR I would be very interested. If they built the rifle around a 458 Win Mag case cut down to same length/internal volume as 45-70 then spinning every case up on a lathe to make work would instead just be saw a 458 case off using a trim die then do final trim on a standard trimmer if wanted to be precise. Would still have a straight wall case and would headspace off the belted rim instead of casemouth. Would be simple for any brass company used to makimg 458 Win Mag or 375 Holland & Holland cases, change headstamp to 45-70 Auto, make proper length and would function well once came up with a meaty enough bolt to latch on to the big case head. I know they went way they did so would not have to make a proprietary bolt but wonder about a 308 bolt sucking up 45-70 thump repeatedly.

When sold my Winchester 1886 collection the 45-70 was most common and main reason was able to sell mine for above what I valued them. Was able to buy in 1980's before all disappeared into collectors vaults and purchased several of the odd cartridges such as 40-60, 40-70, 45-90 and 50-110. None were in nice or even good condition but they existed. Found a Winchester collector trying to put together a full range of 1886 rifles and had very nice examples of all common and semi common cartridges but was stuck on the oddballs. When spread word mine were for sale he was disappointed at condition but since I had cartridges he didn't he bought them all including the duplicates of what he already had. He is now slowly trying to find nicer examples of each but for now at least has a placeholder in every cartidge now and can shoot my lower quality doubles while his 90% 45-70 sits in vault unfired for probably 100 years.

I would like to see more old cartridges resurrected in period correct and modern design rifles. Also for those that want to shoot big bore handguns unless have issues like my wife does where breaks her wrist trying to open a jar of peanut butter or jelly do like my mom always did. Let the gun roll in hand, loosen elbows and finish with handgun almost pointing straight up. She had a similar technique with big long guns. She held the gun snug in shoulder but placed feet in manner that recoil would cause her to take a step or two back moving with the gun. Follow up shots were slow but if first round is on target with a big bore a follow up is seldom needed. I could see a 45-70 Auto type semi-auto making a good guides gun so if client pissed off a charging grizzly then could mow it down with fast follow-ups till it laid down.
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Old January 01, 2018, 16:15   #17
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[QUOTE=hueyville;4520232

Honestly if these people worked out a more elegant solution to a 45-70 AR I would be very interested. If they built the rifle around a 458 Win Mag case cut down to same length/internal volume as 45-70 then spinning every case up on a lathe to make work would instead just be saw a 458 case off using a trim die then do final trim on a standard trimmer if wanted to be precise. Would still have a straight wall case and would headspace off the belted rim instead of casemouth. Would be simple for any brass company used to makimg 458 Win Mag or 375 Holland & Holland cases, change headstamp to 45-70 Auto, make proper length and would function well once came up with a meaty enough bolt to latch on to the big case head. I know they went way they did so would not have to make a proprietary bolt but wonder about a 308 bolt sucking up 45-70 thump repeatedly.[/QUOTE]

I believe that Marlin tried to do this about 15 years ago and it didnít really workout all that great. They did make the belt bigger so that one couldnít inadvertently use a 458 win mag in the 450 marlin.

This totally off topic but I see a use for the 460 S&W mag because one can use the 45 LC, 454Casull, and thee 460 S&W in the same gun. Just like the 38 special and 357 mag. Which allow one to practice with lighter recoiling rounds to get use to the gun, then put a few full House loads threw it each session to get use to them. Also makes finding ammo easier too.
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Old January 01, 2018, 18:36   #18
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I believe that Marlin tried to do this about 15 years ago and it didnít really workout all that great. They did make the belt bigger so that one couldnít inadvertently use a 458 win mag in the 450 marlin.

This totally off topic but I see a use for the 460 S&W mag because one can use the 45 LC, 454Casull, and thee 460 S&W in the same gun. Just like the 38 special and 357 mag. Which allow one to practice with lighter recoiling rounds to get use to the gun, then put a few full House loads threw it each session to get use to them. Also makes finding ammo easier too.
Am going through my handbook of case specifications and modifications to see what rimmed or rebated rim rifle case thats more common might be able to do virtually same thing without turning case on lathe or using a belted magnum. Like the 400 AR and the 7.62◊39/411 wildcat now gaining some traction. Sure a case can be found that avoids a lot of issues like owning a machine shop. I believe they just want to use the 45-70 case as parent for marketing purposes. Looking at 338 and other large long magnum cases that length to shoulder is close to length of 45-70. Having tons of books on case forming and modification has its uses.
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