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Old December 26, 2017, 09:43   #1
GOVT1911
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Hawaii shooting.....blame the victim/

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/1...er-identified/


My Brother has a very close friend/neighbor that was the shooter in the above story. Hawaii HATES gunowners and people protecting themselves.

Cliff notes: last week, neighbor is at work and two thugs break into his house while his wife is home, hold her at gunpoint and rob the house. Thankfully, she was not injured. Sunday morning, at around 0600, thugs come back to the house and are attempting to kick in the door, homeowner ends up firing one round through the glass of the door and hits a badguy. Calls cops, cops arrive and arrest the homeowner for 'Attempted Murder'. There is no Castle Doctrine there and the badguy was 'only guilty of trespassing at the time the shot was fired". See, the badguys were still outside trying to break down the door when homeowner fired the shot. Police officers tell him that the badguys are known criminals with a lengthy record.

Homeowner was arrested and held over Christmas. Eventually released 'Pending further charges'.

Brother and his wife spend Christmas with homeowner's wife because she's terrified badguy and/or his buddies will return.

News stories in local paper list the 'tresspasser' as the victim and the homeowner trying to protect his family and house as the subject.

Friggin insane!

I've been trying to get my Brother to leave Hawaii (he retired from military there and currently works as a contractor for the Army) and return to the someplace with more freedom. I believe that this was finally the wakeup that he needs to leave that shithole that many call 'paradise'.
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Old December 26, 2017, 13:45   #2
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Originally Posted by GOVT1911 View Post
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/1...er-identified/


My Brother has a very close friend/neighbor that was the shooter in the above story. Hawaii HATES gunowners and people protecting themselves.

Cliff notes: last week, neighbor is at work and two thugs break into his house while his wife is home, hold her at gunpoint and rob the house. Thankfully, she was not injured. Sunday morning, at around 0600, thugs come back to the house and are attempting to kick in the door, homeowner ends up firing one round through the glass of the door and hits a badguy. Calls cops, cops arrive and arrest the homeowner for 'Attempted Murder'. There is no Castle Doctrine there and the badguy was 'only guilty of trespassing at the time the shot was fired". See, the badguys were still outside trying to break down the door when homeowner fired the shot. Police officers tell him that the badguys are known criminals with a lengthy record.

Homeowner was arrested and held over Christmas. Eventually released 'Pending further charges'.

Brother and his wife spend Christmas with homeowner's wife because she's terrified badguy and/or his buddies will return.

News stories in local paper list the 'tresspasser' as the victim and the homeowner trying to protect his family and house as the subject.

Friggin insane!

I've been trying to get my Brother to leave Hawaii (he retired from military there and currently works as a contractor for the Army) and return to the someplace with more freedom. I believe that this was finally the wakeup that he needs to leave that shithole that many call 'paradise'.
Yeah, these kind of stories just piss me off to the core of my very being.

Quite a number of States have no positive Castle Doctrine even if they are already in your home. For example in Minnesota, we are a Duty to Flee State. If you can crawl out a window and make and escape you are mandated to do so.

One of the more recent cases here a few years back a retired State department Security Officer was living his dream after buying a home up by Little Falls. Local Meth heads started hitting his home repeatedly, stole his Coin collection, bullion, guns, tools, you name it. He finally hid his car and hung out in the basement. Of course the Tweekers booted the door, eventually going into the basement where he used a Mini14 to take down a young couple with extensive histories for theft. Two problems for the old guy, first he admitted to laying in ambush down the basement. Second after shooting them with the Mini he took a Ruger .22 pistol and shot both of them in the head.

Twin Cities media howled
Typical blitz of old pix of this 20 year old gal in her Cheerleaders uniform and the guy in football get up like they were both darling children. Well, they were not, they were young shitbag druggies

Anyways in the end the old guy ended up in prison for two counts of murder

Been a number of these cases in the lower two thirds of the State though most counties in the Northern part tend to be sensible regarding shots fired at a scumbag already in one's house. A case up here back in the 90s a young gal lit up her abusive ex boyfriend with her trusty Remington 740 .30-06 Woodmaster at point blank range. I knew the couple pretty well. When he drank he beat on her. Eventually she hooked him up with a restraining order after he knocked her up. Asshole boots her door open, gal runs down the hall in the trailer house barricading herself in the bedroom. When he booted that door...three shots of soft point to the mid section, nearly cut him in half.

Sheriff shows up, ambulance takes her in for extreme shock. Few days later Coroner rules it death by misadventure. Nobody wanted to jail a pregnant 20 year old girl defending herself from a drunken asshole, not even his parents who stood up for the gal. The trailer house was on their farm.

In this State it just depends on what County you are in, the closer you are to the Twin Cities the more likely you are to get hung out to dry in a self defense case.

Even under Castle Doctrine in many of the States that have it as Code you still have to have the perp over the threshold before you can deploy deadly force. Enemies at the Gates beating down the door isn't good enough in those jurisdictions.

Anyways everyone should know their laws. Some States you catch a Man raping your daughter in her bedroom and shoot his ass dead you could end up convicted of Manslaughter
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Old December 26, 2017, 14:01   #3
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I think I remember the basement incident you talked about, River. IIRC, there was audio of the girl after she was shot the first time begging for her life before old dude stood over her and popped her in the nugget.

Yeah, they were shitheads and I have no problem with them being shot during the burglary, but the coup'de grace was what did old dude in.


Update on the original situation. Gene is out of jail and hasn't been charged YET. The cops found the crowbar and masks the turd was wearing in Gene's yard. Cops say the turds have extensive records and are charging the one with the bullet hole with trespassing, his buddy's identity is unknown and the leaky one isn't talking.

Still a very serious threat of Gene getting charged with Attempted Murder, I guess that's pretty common there for anyone shooting someone else, regardless of the circumstances. Shitty situation.

Gene and his wife are staying with my brother, wife is terrified to go back to the house. My brother installed some cameras just in case turd or his buddies decide to come back.

Side note: Homeowner Gene had owned that 9mm handgun for 10 years and HAD NEVER FIRED IT before that morning. He fired one round, through the glass and scored a hit. He's got a much better hit ratio than most police departments. Gene is doing well mentally (as he should be, was completely justified shoot in my eyes) but his wife is terrified. Brother offered him another handgun and to take him to the range to practice and get familiar with it.
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Old December 26, 2017, 16:00   #4
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I think I remember the basement incident you talked about, River. IIRC, there was audio of the girl after she was shot the first time begging for her life before old dude stood over her and popped her in the nugget.

Yeah, they were shitheads and I have no problem with them being shot during the burglary, but the coup'de grace was what did old dude in.


Update on the original situation. Gene is out of jail and hasn't been charged YET. The cops found the crowbar and masks the turd was wearing in Gene's yard. Cops say the turds have extensive records and are charging the one with the bullet hole with trespassing, his buddy's identity is unknown and the leaky one isn't talking.

Still a very serious threat of Gene getting charged with Attempted Murder, I guess that's pretty common there for anyone shooting someone else, regardless of the circumstances. Shitty situation.

Gene and his wife are staying with my brother, wife is terrified to go back to the house. My brother installed some cameras just in case turd or his buddies decide to come back.

Side note: Homeowner Gene had owned that 9mm handgun for 10 years and HAD NEVER FIRED IT before that morning. He fired one round, through the glass and scored a hit. He's got a much better hit ratio than most police departments. Gene is doing well mentally (as he should be, was completely justified shoot in my eyes) but his wife is terrified. Brother offered him another handgun and to take him to the range to practice and get familiar with it.
No audio, the tape was the old guy telling the popo what he had done.

I knew that character, semi regular at MN shows. He was former DSS, serious Cold Warrior who did Embassy duty in Moscow, Bulgaria and the ME
Seriously decorated Combat Vet, extensive gun collection, tens of thousands in bullion. He moved up to Little Falls figuring to escape any BS, just fish, hunt and shoot. This is going to FU some folks but I know he lurked here, likely was a member. Guy had a small number of FALs that were stolen. Good stuff, an import L1, a Browning G and a GSI Steyr...of course all pre bans. He as well owned a SIG PE and an AMT. So yeah he was real pissed I'm sure.

Deal was before he contacted the local Popo he reached out to folks that were still active in DSS he knew. They told him nothing they could do for him, call the County. That's what he did and was bluntly honest.

Spoke to a local Officer from the area. That guy stated his home had been hit multiple times, hundreds of firearms stolen. They had a solid idea who the perps were but they really couldn't act on just that so the guy took it on himself to resolve the issue.

Bear in mind he wasn't charged until a number of days later. Cops wanted nothing to do with it, it was the local DA who pressured the issue after all the attention from the urban press.

You are exactly correct
the shots under the jaw into the brain case were straight executions. Had he just stood a few feet back and administered follow ups with the Ruger than been somewhat less than truthful he might have got away with it. As it was he snitched himself out.
Still a messed up outcome.

Folks need to understand that in quite a number of States ANY death you are responsible for can be charged out as Manslaughter and yeah some jurisdictions Self Defense won't overcome that basic Manslaughter charge. It may be justification but if the Popo or DA wants, well yeah you go to Court before a Jury of hopefully your "peers"

Again, that's why I advise EVERYONE to know their local laws and those who enforce them.

Truth be told most seasoned LE just love it when a Citizen puts hurt on a perp. Been told more than once, if they get outside drag the body back in and clean up before you make a call.

Shooting through an exterior entrance door though is iffy even in the best of Castle States.

Worse yet you get the shitbag families going after payout in civil court spinning the Ghetto Rolette deal to steal everything you own.
Rumor is that happened in the Little Falls deal, meth whore's family got the house she was ripping off.

Always best to protect real property as best you can with trusts.

Last edited by Riversidesports; December 26, 2017 at 16:08.
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Old December 27, 2017, 02:32   #5
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“Dragging the body inside” or ANY “cleaning up the scene” before cops arrive is a TERRIBLE idea, unless you’re already guilty as shit and are going to prison anyway. (Just my opinion formed from 20+ yrs as an LEO)
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Old December 27, 2017, 03:05   #6
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My brother in law, Gene, retired from the US army in Hawaii. He was hired to run some USO facilities on Oahu. He bought a house but could not buy the land it was built on. He could only lease it for 99 years with a renewal clause. Apparently its impossible to buy land in Hawaii. The sugar and pineapple consortiums own it all and refuse to sell. He also had issues with the locals. He told me he "was the wrong color" to be acceptable there. Leave I advised him. His wife is of Japanese extraction and would have no part of it. Hawaii may be paradise to some but it is truly hell to others. Gene is still there. Buried in the Punch Bowl military cemetery. RIP
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Old December 27, 2017, 03:25   #7
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“Dragging the body inside” or ANY “cleaning up the scene” before cops arrive is a TERRIBLE idea, unless you’re already guilty as shit and are going to prison anyway. (Just my opinion formed from 20+ yrs as an LEO)
Well, that's the thing. The scumbag makes it outside and dies halfway to the sidewalk in some jurisdictions you will already be as you correctly noted "guilty as shit"

Sadly, the worst part is one is best advised to say absolutely nothing to the police unless you have council present these days
Of course that too will result very likely in a stay in jail at least until you make bail

Again as usual everything is situational
What may be generally a terrible idea in some situations can be the only thing you can really do in others.
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Old December 27, 2017, 12:43   #8
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True, but tampering with a crime scene/evidence is sure to go against your favor. Could be the difference between Manslaughter and Murder.
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Old December 28, 2017, 02:04   #9
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In regard to the Little Falls shootings, I remember reading in the Star Tribune about the event (Mpls paper of very left leaning politics), there was mention that the burglary victim's phone line was cut and he used a cell phone to make his phone calls. I saw nothing more of that in articles on the trial, and wondered if it was ever brought up by the defence to show the intruders thought the victim to be in the house and to hope to isolate him from calling 911 and trap him. I believe I read the male intruder was mentioned as having a piece of pipe with him as well, which could argue malicious intent. How is a guy in his 60's going to flee a 20-ish guy, even if the 20 year old was a meth addict? A pipe is pretty quiet to put a person down. I don't agree with his execution shots to the two, but the press in the cities really skewed their articles on the story against him.
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Old December 28, 2017, 09:30   #10
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Wish i had the answer to cases like the above........For me being former L.E. i have security fencing around complete back of property,two large dogs, current V.S.P. Units within stones throw of me and stay armed ALL the time. If they are in my house all the former security issues have been breached and they are not invited guests.
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Old December 28, 2017, 11:02   #11
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good luck to your buddy, but some times stupid hurts. ask me why i don't live in a liberal shithole.
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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old December 28, 2017, 18:01   #12
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True, but tampering with a crime scene/evidence is sure to go against your favor. Could be the difference between Manslaughter and Murder.
Just depends on whether you are caught at it.

Okay hypothetical
Guy kicks your door in, you shoot him and he dies in your yard
That likely will lead to a full crime scene investigation right

Same situation, homeowner takes the perp back inside to wear it went down initially. The yard only takes a cursory look unless there is a trail of gore leading to and from the home

Again, it's totally situational.
particularly on jurisdiction and your interaction past and present with the responders.

As much as I sometimes come off anti Police, 99% of the time they want to be the Good guy. Just saying at times their hands are totally tied by State Code and how we present the "facts" to them.
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Old December 28, 2017, 19:11   #13
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Riverside, it’s clear to me that you don’t know as much as you think about crime scene investigation, just as I don’t know as much as I think about running a Gunshop. I most likely won’t be taking your advice to tamper with a crime scene (which WILL be detected, almost guaranteed) and you probably shouldn’t take any advice I may give on selling guns or keeping your books accurate.
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Old December 29, 2017, 06:54   #14
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Something to be said for headshots. No matter what your weapon of choice is. Perp will remain in the house, with a headshot. No need to move him.
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Old December 29, 2017, 09:50   #15
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the key is to select a residence in which the likelihood of need for a head shot is low. live among pigs and you have to deal with the stink.
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If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will.

Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine.


The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same.

Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?"
"In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Max.
"You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."
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Old December 30, 2017, 07:49   #16
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the key is to select a residence in which the likelihood of need for a head shot is low. live among pigs and you have to deal with the stink.
There is something to be said for this argument as well. But we all know, that sometimes, the pigs escape, wander, and reproduce.
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