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Old December 22, 2017, 22:44   #1
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WTF! Paypal buyers

When someone has your PP address from a previous transaction, do they have the right to "gift" you the payment, and claim it as a sale item being a "gun part" , without your authorization? or I just being up tight?
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Old December 22, 2017, 22:54   #2
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Wow, nice way for them to get your account locked. You could refund the payment as "wrong paypal address" and then tell the buyer to send a postal money order, for being stupid.
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Old December 22, 2017, 23:09   #3
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Crazy shit.
So I was the PP holdout for 15? yrs. Just started doing it awhile back.
I remember back when G-plumber thought "me" an ass for not doing PP and wouldn't accept a MO payment from me!
You'd think that by now everyone would kind of have it figured out, but damn.
How does discreet = Send the parts to my Gunsmith!
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Old December 22, 2017, 23:15   #4
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Whatever one calls it, it's not cool. Refund the payment and send them packing is what I'd do.

I'm very careful with PP because I don't want my account or the sellers account locked for some stupid shit. If someone cannot respect the seller and his instructions then he doesn't need to do business with that person. To just drop a bomb like that outta the blue? He needs a good ass chewing and sent on his way.
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Old December 22, 2017, 23:20   #5
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Thanks
Yes, I refunded and blocked them from bidding.
I'm up to 30 blocked bidders on G-broker now, but that's over 19 yrs.
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Old December 23, 2017, 10:08   #6
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Crazy shit.
So I was the PP holdout for 15? yrs. Just started doing it awhile back.
I remember back when G-plumber thought "me" an ass for not doing PP and wouldn't accept a MO payment from me!
You'd think that by now everyone would kind of have it figured out, but damn.
How does discreet = Send the parts to my Gunsmith!
Larry - you are either confusing me with someone else or you are lying. I've never, ever, had a preference for PP over a check or money order.

I did grudgingly accept paypal for a period of time, on those orders that were not in violation of the user agreement. And always for "goods", never lying to cheat them out of their fee by calling it a "gift". But after the criminal scum at paypal stole from me, I will not use them.

I have always preferred a check or money order made out to me, that I can simply cash at my bank. Asserting that I would prefer a tracked electronic transfer that is reported to the IRS (now, anyway, 1099Q) over cashing a check from a known person is so illogical, that you must have me confused with someone else. Because I can think of no reason why you would come up with such a stupid lie.

So I'll be expecting an apology and a retraction
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Old December 23, 2017, 11:41   #7
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No Mark, I remember it distinctly. It was probably 12+ yrs ago. You were having a fire sale and when I wanted to make a purchase and pay w/a MO you snubbed the sale. I assume you wanted fast $ and PP served that means.
I don't think I can go back to that e-mail as I no longer use my earthlink address and it was a paid account.

I have purchased from you
3 US made walnut metric grips.
Several Aussie plastic carry handles which you shorted me one and sent a Aussie cleaning kits case.
Several New "Turk mfg'r FAL" buttplates that turned out to be C1 that you had to make a price adjustment on.
One Odd ARMS para scope mnt
Do you recall those sales?

Do you recall our conversation over locking shoulders when I was at a Phoenix gunshow in 1997?
I do.
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Old December 23, 2017, 13:14   #8
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I have a good memory, but really - expecting me to remember a conversation with one of hundreds of people at a gunshow 20 years ago? That's really stretching it.

Your assertion makes zero sense. I have always preferred a check/money order that I can simply cash, over an electronic transaction for which I have to pay an additional fee. The only mitigation for grudgingly accepting paypal was the ability to print a shipping label from your order. I do not believe that has ever been such a boon as to motivate me to reject a "better" payment method.
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Old December 23, 2017, 13:36   #9
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Using PayPal is like trying to hit a moving target. The rules change constantly, when and what you can use it for per their rules seems to fit only their agenda. For a long time they didn't allow use for purchase of guns or gun parts, but their merger with eBay changed that. I personally don't like sellers who insist on using the "Friends and Family" or "Gift" option to dodge the fees, that seems like a sure way to have your account frozen. Or those who want a 3.5 or 4 percent override for the privilege of paying with PayPal, why not just build that into your selling price or accept it as a cost of doing business - credit cards have been charging merchants for years.

The ability to use a service like PayPal for making online purchases has become a necessary evil. I prefer it to using my credit card as I feel it is more secure and offers less exposure to fraud.

My .02.
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Old December 23, 2017, 14:12   #10
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Mark, it could have been when you were moving to Surprise?
Regardless, I assume we can agree to disagree and I hold no animosity over the non-deal and have purchased a few items from you since w/a MO.
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Old December 25, 2017, 10:04   #11
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I dropped payscum around 2000. A couple of my collector friends had their monies seized and monkeyed with back then. And it was no small amount of money they fugged with. They were making gobs on interest and it took forever and some legal action before my friends got their money back...and then they left payscum immediately. Someone told me that they can no longer withdraw their money all in one shot from payscum - something along that line ?. I won't ever use them again.
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Old December 25, 2017, 22:27   #12
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If I have over $80.00 in the acct, I start withdrawing. I have also not given them my SS number where they can draw OUT of my checking acct.

Actually, I'm just going to close my acct. Used to be when I logged on they had a pop up that said my sign up was 60% complete. I have not seen that in awhile so I checked my acct and they have sourced my SS number some how so adios!
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Times of FALs and no money are better than times of money and no FALs.

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Old December 26, 2017, 01:21   #13
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Gun parts are ok with paypal. Lots of gun parts for sale on ebay, and if you buy you HAVE to pay with paypal.
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Old December 26, 2017, 07:42   #14
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I have a specific savings account at an alternate bank which is only for PayPal use.
When sales are made, PayPal balance is transferred into this account and them withdrawn asap to retain the smallest balance possible.

To me, this keeps them out of my everyday accounts where it could be troublesome if something got "locked up."

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Old December 29, 2017, 02:31   #15
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pay pal sucks for everything. I have used paypal for gun like parts. So, they wanted friends and family only transfers with no gun parts listed. OK When you transfer money to friends and family you get screwed if they don't send you anything. It has happened to me twice. Never again. I am down 800 bucks thanks dellque- Rodney Demasters

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Old January 15, 2018, 14:22   #16
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Does PayPal allow the purchase of FAL 20 round magazines? It isn't high capacity it is the normal capacity of the FAL. How does their policy work for that? I have a seller on armslist who wants a PayPal Payment but I don't want to give up the buyer protection.
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Old January 15, 2018, 16:06   #17
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Does PayPal allow the purchase of FAL 20 round magazines? It isn't high capacity it is the normal capacity of the FAL. How does their policy work for that? I have a seller on armslist who wants a PayPal Payment but I don't want to give up the buyer protection.
Then leave the description and comments fields blank. Email the seller to let him know when you sent payment.
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What if the Mystery Babalon described in Revelation, which is destroyed by the nations of the North, is actually America?

The biggest problem with religion is those who claim to know Jesus, then turn around and deny Him with their lifestyle. That is what a unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.

Before you die, you should have a will with extra copies. The old saying "No one will screw you faster than family" is bloody well true.
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Old January 16, 2018, 03:09   #18
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pay pal sucks for everything. I have used paypal for gun like parts. So, they wanted friends and family only transfers with no gun parts listed. OK When you transfer money to friends and family you get screwed if they don't send you anything. It has happened to me twice. Never again. I am down 800 bucks thanks dellque- Rodney Demasters
You are just dealing with crooks. I've traded, received cash, Ck, MO, PP F&F & Goods & services and always sent the product. I've worked with buyers to locate lost packages and have filed lost package claims 4x to reimburse them.
You need to spread these crooks name all over the internet.
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Old January 17, 2018, 18:22   #19
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Larry's getting bored ...

LoL ... I've got your SS # and your PP login ...
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Old January 18, 2018, 11:36   #20
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Have totally stopped PayPal Friends & Family for any transactions. If someone sells or buys from me using PayPal it's with understanding that it will be a PayPal Merchant transaction, who pays fees clearly agreed and any firearms related purchases are called machine parts. A gun is a machine and do not feel that it's lying or cheating to call a barrel or such a machine part. PayPal gets their fees and funds are handled as securely as I know how.

Have separate checking account and credit card use with PayPal that only keep a minimum amount in checking for needs at time and low maximum limit on card that won't hurt if it is sniped. If paid significant amount pull it out fast. Sold two cars, motorcycles & other large ticket items would have hated to see locked up by PayPal. Know a few people who had accounts locked and never got their money, usually because person on one side of the transaction was stupid. Seen both parties get accounts locked so be careful when you file a complaint.

Know a guy who sent a personal check for online item. Vendor used routing/account numbers on his personal check to print checks and use for high dollar purchases wipimg his account before he realized it to point of having to cover the bounced checks as well till sorted out. Seen credit cards get sniped by online vendors or from their records so try to limit my online exposure to a card and account that if both were maxed it would not be earth shaking.

Sent out a Certified Check on a national bank Tuesday to Files member. I don't use USPS Money Orders because of two reasons. First is 20 to 30 minute wait in line at our local post office behind Hispanics mailing used cloths home who don't understand packaging, mail system or "Engrish" and have a nine year old kid translating. Second is if vendor screws you or item is lost in mail by same people who handled the money and shipping seldom, if ever, does the loss claim get settled. I have never had U.S.P.S. pay a claim and filed three total.

Purchased a pair of Noveske 6.8 barrels from a very nice gentleman in Alaska before Christmas. He had never accepted PayPal as payment but explained I would pay him as a Merchant, add appropriate fees and he just transfered his money into linked checking account quickly. Advised him to ship from his official PayPal address of record to mine. Did transaction as a Merchant Sale with appropriate fees for "machine parts". Seller dropped in his Post Office, package was scanned in, scanned leaving Alaska then for over two weeks was missing.

Contacted PayPal, was told to wait time for U.S. Postal to declare missing, send them the tracking number of package and as long as it matched shipment from seller on record plus buyer on record from their PayPal Confirmed Addresses on both sides they would reimburse funds minus their fee without taking away money from the vendor. Your fees pay for insured transaction just like an Ebay purchase. Over two weeks later barrels suddenly appeared in Seattle then got lost for another week between the Midwest and Southeast. If use PayPal correctly it's safest way have found to pay strangers have never done business with who do not have a Brick & Mortar business to interface with if need. Read their terms & conditions well. Use confirmed addresses, pay as Merchant and don't try to save the fees using friends and family if want to be protected.

UPS has lost or damaged more packages than I can count with no positive results on claims filed ever. Have not received two items paid for with U.S.P.S money orders and never got a single dime. Every transaction that went through PayPal that went south has been fixed. Bought a MICH High Ear Helmet with N Rails and N.V. mount last year advertised as Gentex Level 3a on Ebay. What I received was a plastic airsoft replica. Sent in disputes immediately to Ebay and PayPal and money was refunded in less than 30 days due to seller not responding to them.

Have well over a thousand transactions through Ebay/PayPal and the few that went bad I got my money refunded. U.S.P.S. has never refunded a dime on lost or scammed item bought with money order or lost in their mail system. UPS has never settled a damaged or lost package claim positively. Have tried personal checks, bank checks and money orders. Only transactions where an issue raised and was able to get positive results were on Amex credit cards or PayPal. Amex usually fixes things with a phone call. PayPal have to prove used proper payment method, recognized shipping addresses and provide proof item was incorrectly described or lost and they eventually fixed.

My personal rules are pass on any U.S.P.S. money order only or PayPal Friends & Family only. Believe many do this as goal os to avoid tax implications. Have had several transactions not happen in past year because seller said PayPal F&F only then when offered to pay fees myself and use Merchant tab seller absolutely refused. A gift from non family member is taxable, especially a long history of online "gifts". Others may have a different experience but for me I will use what has worked to date as much as I can. This forum is only place break my rules for payment on occasion and send a personal check or even cash. FAL Files is a different barrel of monkeys but trustworthy to do business with thus far both as seller and buyer.
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Old January 19, 2018, 16:41   #21
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Anyway, as L/FN already stated, don't do business with crooks.

There will always be an element of risk when buying and selling online. There is a risk when dealing with the other party. There is an element of risk when shipping.

USPS Money Orders are preferred by most because they are easy to clear and cash (though online depositing has become so quick and easy, the point is moot). It is easier for me to buy a Money Order at the Post Office than to request one at my bank. i typically request USPS Money Orders, yet often receive cashiers/bank checks instead. it doesn't bother me... if my bank takes the deposit, all is good.

Paypal has evolved significantly over the years. I find it to be an excellent resource. Paypal covered my rear end when Fed-Ex gave me the shaft. A bought a $600 watch through a Paypal merchant, which never arrived. Fed-Ex said I signed for it and provided proof of my signature... a single dash. I kept pressing, and ultimately Fed-Ex stated that if the insured value was refunded, it would be to the shipper not to the recipient nor would I as the recipient receive notice of the outcome. Long story short, Paypal actually paid the money back to me... not Fed-Ex, and not the seller/shipper.
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Old February 02, 2018, 09:57   #22
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LoL ... I've got your SS # and your PP login ...
Thanks Jugs. Feel free to add $ to my account!
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Old February 02, 2018, 11:35   #23
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Thanks Jugs. Feel free to add $ to my account!

Actually, there is a way we could do that ...
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Old February 03, 2018, 13:23   #24
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I think it worthy to repost some material I posted elsewhere ....

Let's look at the actual prohibition we are debating:

"(j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories"

Since it states "certain firearm parts", and not ALL parts, one could reasonably assume some are allowed. So which "parts" are prohibited? They do not define those "certain" parts in either the Acceptable Use Agreement or the Users Agreement. They have another ambiguous statement in a FAQ section. Which states:

"Firearm parts, including but not limited to receivers and frames, silencers, and kits designed to modify guns so that they fire automatically. High capacity magazines, multi-burst trigger activators, and camouflaging firearm containers are other items in this category."

What is the accepted definition of "high capacity" magazines? A magazine capacity greater than the original platform designer designed the platform for? Or a magazine greater than a certain round count? What is that count? What is it based on? Therefore, I only use it for "standard" or "low" capacity magazines as defined by the laws of the jurisdictions I am doing business in. Absent such definitions I use the designers definition.

What is the definition of "but not limited to"?

PayPal is riding a fine line in the sand. They know such ambiguous clauses would not withstand a court challenge, so they play games with freezing accounts, mostly of those that take part in "theft of services" (another well defined area). They are also desperately trying to avoid being called a "bank". Because they don't want the bank regulations to apply to them.

Have you noticed that GunBroker now lists PayPal as source of payment? Do you think they could legally do that if it was prohibited?

Bottom line, if you pay for the service you are receiving and make an effort to follow the rules as you understand them, you'll probably not have a problem.

DISCLAIMER - I do not, by practice, accept PayPal for any of the items mentioned in that FAQ, as to my understanding of the definitions of those parts.
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Old February 04, 2018, 08:36   #25
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Anyway, as L/FN already stated, don't do business with crooks.
(Trim)
Paypal has evolved significantly over the years. I find it to be an excellent resource. Paypal covered my rear end when Fed-Ex gave me the shaft. A bought a $600 watch through a Paypal merchant, which never arrived. Fed-Ex said I signed for it and provided proof of my signature... a single dash. I kept pressing, and ultimately Fed-Ex stated that if the insured value was refunded, it would be to the shipper not to the recipient nor would I as the recipient receive notice of the outcome. Long story short, Paypal actually paid the money back to me... not Fed-Ex, and not the seller/shipper.
Just looked back at PayPal dashboard. Was unable to go back to beginning but three transactions past couple of years that did not arrive or were not item described (fleabay) totalled up to over $600 returned to me by PayPal after went through the full claims procedure and had made sure when transaction was done that their terms were followed. More than covers all the fees they have charged in same time period plus some.

Was told by postmaster at my post office that USPS Money Orders were becoming a favorite way to get paid by scammers. They get the money order, then mail an empty box or box with some form of ballast to show it weighed a certain amount and unless opened by postal inspector no way to prove you were scammed. Seller on other side just claims they mailed item, it went through system as their tracking records showed and arrived at buyers address. Fact item paid for was not in box is my word against theirs and Post Office doesn't get involved unless someone get hundreds of complaints in short period of time.

I could sell you an FAL numbers matching kit asking for USPS Money order, drop some random scrap metal in box and ship with tracking and other than a negative feedback and argument over who was lying on forum, not a darn thing you could do to get money refunded. PayPal and provide transaction records with sellers photos from ad plus photos of contents of box or proof no box arrived and refund has come in each case. Just bought an Imbel receiver here, seller let me use a bank check so went forward with sale as my bank will look at a problem more likely than post office these days. Had it not been a Files member would have passed on buying item all together if didn't take credit card or PayPal for consumer protection. Your correct, PayPal has gotten much better in recent years.
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Old February 04, 2018, 13:57   #26
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Have you noticed that GunBroker now lists PayPal as source of payment? Do you think they could legally do that if it was prohibited?


Word on the Street is PayPal and gheybay are splitting up ... !!! ... separating themselves would allow PP to do more business ... no constraints from eBay's libtard polices ...

But ...

I thought ebay owned PayPal ... ???
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Old February 04, 2018, 14:07   #27
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Word on the Street is PayPal and gheybay are splitting up ... !!! ... separating themselves would allow PP to do more business ... no constraints from eBay's libtard polices ...

But ...

I thought ebay owned PayPal ... ???
Yes they did, here is the article about it:
Data Sheet—eBay Chooses a New Dance Partner While Dunking PayPal

http://fortune.com/2018/02/01/data-s...-paypal-adyen/
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Old February 04, 2018, 16:22   #28
4markk
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Originally Posted by jugrunner View Post
Word on the Street is PayPal and gheybay are splitting up ... !!! ... separating themselves would allow PP to do more business ... no constraints from eBay's libtard polices ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by APEXgunparts View Post
Yes they did, here is the article about it:
Data Sheet—eBay Chooses a New Dance Partner While Dunking PayPal
All smoke and mirrors my friends.

eBay spun off PayPal in 2015 as a separate company. Although they share the same board of directors they have separate management chains.

PayPal is much larger than its former parent. Ironically, eBay is less than 10% of PayPal's business and is holding PayPal back by tightly coupling to it. So the Board in their quest for more money is dissolving that tight relationship thereby opening PayPal up to more opportunities.

Don't count on big policy changes, only those that made PayPal less desirable to eBay competitors. Remember, PayPal relaxed a lot of its firearms restrictions 2 years ago when they saw the billions of $ they were missing out on. Money talks and bullshit walks!!!!!
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Old February 05, 2018, 16:02   #29
jugrunner
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I joined waaaaaaaay back when PP was free .. !! .. then eBay bought PP and here come the user fees and seller fees and ebay rules and whatever ... they've helped me out several times from scammers on eBay .. I'll give 'em that and Thank them ...

I know a couple guys that buy ammo from Academy and use PP credit to pay ... everybody likes taking the money ... 6 mo. no interest

I remember people telling me that eBay would never work and PP was the devil incarnate ... ...

it all depends on your perspective but you gotta admit, we've come a long way ... I made good $$$ on the side, selling Nikon camera/lenses/equipment back in the late 90's ...

then they ruined it ...

eBays' constant need to control/micro manage the sellers and jack the rates , all the while bending you over, cured me !!! .. I haven't sold there in yrs.
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