Stubborn #@#*SOB Argy Extractor Plunger

Highground · January 14, 2013, 16:53

This is getting unreal. I have the Sarco Argy kit but have been stalemated with extractor removal for the headspace measurement. Tried a home brew tool that's been used on here and no joy.

Just received an original FN extractor tool and it can only pull the plunger back only to the edge of the plunger groove. The plunger will not enter into the groove in order to give clearance for extractor removal.

Unless someone has an idea what's wrong I guess this bolt has to go to a gunsmith. Already tried injecting solvent and no gain in movement. So basically it is only compressing up to the point that takes up the visible gap behind the plunger head.

4 brigada · January 14, 2013, 16:57

Relax take a breath, your doing it right. Oh yeah don't forget the plastic bag.

Mosin Guy · January 14, 2013, 17:09

Try to spray some oil down into the area around the extractor cutout and work it in and out as far as you can to get the oil down into the extractor cutout as you may have some dried up crud behind the extractor plunger preventing the plunger from being compressed enough to remove.

Highground · January 14, 2013, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 brigada

Relax take a breath, your doing it right. Oh yeah don't forget the plastic bag.

I guess I am doing it right but it sure is putting this tool to it's limit. So how far into the recess of the bolt should the plunger head enter before the extractor can clear?

Didn't use a bag so I could better see movement but sounds like a good precaution for fly away. Not sure the tip of the tool won't break off with the amount of torque that's on it.

Tnx

Highground · January 14, 2013, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosin Guy

Try to spray some oil down into the area around the extractor cutout and work it in and out as far as you can to get the oil down into the extractor cutout as you may have some dried up crud behind the extractor plunger preventing the plunger from being compressed enough to remove.

Will do.

Tnx.

**gobbler** · January 14, 2013, 17:14

Had the same problem several times. Put tension once it gets to the cutout & work it side to side keeping tension. and push down on the back of the extractor as you do it.

gobbler

gunnutt · January 14, 2013, 17:16

Clamp down a nail in a vice and use its pointed end to push the extractor back

Highground · January 14, 2013, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnutt

Clamp down a nail in a vice and use its pointed end to push the extractor back

I've tried that but the gauge material is too soft for the amount of force to even come close to moving it deep enough. And if I launch it will end up being double screwed.

Even the $40 factory FN extractor tool pin is starting to give out. Tried all the suggestions, seems to come close but then the extractor tool pin flies out and is starting to round off. Plunger will not enter the cutout area but then the first guy was able to get it in there..wow.

Going to give my fingers a break and if unsuccessful take the bolt to a gunsmith up the road. Can't imagine what it's like to put it back together if it's this hard to remove. Also wondering if it is possible the plunger is bent, wouldn't think so if it's new.

**gobbler** · January 14, 2013, 18:34

I am looking at a stripped bolt, try lifting up on the front of the extractor when you compress the spring. It has a shoulder right at the begining of the cut-out the extractor & spring holder deal may be hanging on. Pull back on the spring as you lift front of the exractor

gobbler

Redec · January 14, 2013, 18:42

I just did this Friday with my Argy kit. The damper is whats causing it. I wrapped my bolt in a rag and then put it in the vise. I got a nail that would go into the extractor hole almost perfect, grabbed it with a pair of pliers and pushed down with both hands as far and hard as I could. Grab the extractor and push it inward toward the bolt. (This would be a lot easier with 2 people. I did it myself but I wish I had 3 hands.) Keep doing this and trying to work the extractor out. I finally removed it when I was able to push it over and applied pressure in a clock wise angle if that makes sense. It sort of rolled out. It can be done but I did ram a Philips head screw driver into my middle finger lol.

I did use my exact o knife and trim a little off the damper. I hope this makes it easier to remove next time.

Highground · January 14, 2013, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redec

I just did this Friday with my Argy kit. The damper is whats causing it. I wrapped my bolt in a rag and then put it in the vise. I got a nail that would go into the extractor hole almost perfect, grabbed it with a pair of pliers and pushed down with both hands as far and hard as I could. Grab the extractor and push it inward toward the bolt. (This would be a lot easier with 2 people. I did it myself but I wish I had 3 hands.) Keep doing this and trying to work the extractor out. I finally removed it when I was able to push it over and applied pressure in a clock wise angle if that makes sense. It sort of rolled out. It can be done but I did ram a Philips head screw driver into my middle finger lol.

I did use my exact o knife and trim a little off the damper. I hope this makes it easier to remove next time.

Thanks Redec, will try that also. It appeared that when the extractor was pushed towards the firing pin hole that I almost had it but then the tool would come free.

It sounds like your saying to push from the claw side of the extractor while at the same time gripping the nail and forcing the plunger rearwards. Isn't there a risk of a fly away into the face when all that broke free?

Redec · January 14, 2013, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highground

Thanks Redec, will try that also. It appeared that when the extractor was pushed towards the firing pin hole that I almost had it but then the tool would come free.

It sounds like your saying to push from the claw side of the extractor while at the same time gripping the nail and forcing the plunger rearwards. Isn't there a risk of a fly away into the face when all that broke free?

Nothing flew away because I was able to let the plunger extend fully with the nail still in it. Plus my hand was over it as I just pulled the extractor out. Just push in and down on the plunger. I bounced it a couple times, then held it in places as best I could. Grab the extractor and fold it towards the firing pin hole. Once over just work it left and right until it comes out. I think mine rolled out clockwise, so the left bottom was the first thing to come out.

Highground · January 14, 2013, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redec

Nothing flew away because I was able to let the plunger extend fully with the nail still in it. Plus my hand was over it as I just pulled the extractor out.

Wish my hands and fingers were as young as yours.

At his point I am guessing the plunger spring buffer is swollen into the spring preventing full compression. Not sure what material it is made from. Injecting solvent and oil may have increased the swelling as well. It's definitely a tough customer.

Highground · January 15, 2013, 08:02

Well I give up and accept my defeat. Nothing will stand up to this. Nail shears off, tried a drill bit since it's harder. Plunger head refuses to enter the cutout area. Will take this garbage to the gunsmith and hopefully get out for $40 if I'm lucky. Maybe he can determine the defect.

Highground · January 15, 2013, 17:56

Dropped the bolt off to a gunsmith this morning. Guess it's just another delay for this project.

Thanks for all the suggestions just the same.

Redec · January 15, 2013, 19:58

Sorry it was such a pain. Hopefully your smith will get you fixed up so you can get your rifle head spaced and ready. Waiting sucks.

4 brigada · January 15, 2013, 21:32

Quote:

Not sure the tip of the tool won't break off with the amount of torque that's on it.

Yeap, tool broke, plunger must have folded space and went into another dimension never found it. Live and learn , then learn again

FUUN063 · January 16, 2013, 01:03

Those Argy's and Stg's are why I made up my own bolt disassembly tool years ago that works great. None other like it. The handle is a turned down allen head bolt. Here you go.

Leland

Highground · January 16, 2013, 08:35

Hi FUUN063,

Yes I saw that on another thread when I was searching, excellent work. Anyway I dropped my bolt off to a gunsmith yesterday. There is something seriously wrong if a FN factory tool can't get the job done. My guess is the plunger spring buffer material has swelled into the coils limiting compression. Hopefully he has something heavy duty that will overcome it and maybe discover some other flaw.

Thanks for the post!

**gunplumber** · January 16, 2013, 09:22

I've run into a few extractor spring where the rubber insert was longer than normal. They were a nightmare to R&R. So I did the same as above - razor cut to standard length.

Highground · January 16, 2013, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber

I've run into a few extractor spring where the rubber insert was longer than normal. They were a nightmare to R&R. So I did the same as above - razor cut to standard length.

Thanks for verifying that GP.

What dimension do you recommend as standard length just in case, also minimum length in case it already is standard?

**gunplumber** · January 16, 2013, 10:53

I don't know an exact dimension. I just took a new Belgium extractor spring w/insert, and lined it up with the other one. +/- the thickness of the razor.

Punch the Clown · January 18, 2013, 00:31

I must be missing something? Don't the Argy's use the one piece extractors? I just popped mine out with a screwdriver?

E4W · January 18, 2013, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punch the Clown

I must be missing something? Don't the Argy's use the one piece extractors? I just popped mine out with a screwdriver?

Please explain how you did this? Thanks!

Punch the Clown · January 18, 2013, 20:08

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65357 explains it.

It's really easy. All I did was to push the extractor away from the center of the bolt against the spring and using my thumb pushed it straight up. Took about a second.

E4W · January 18, 2013, 20:19

OMG that was easy!

Thank you very much!

Why didn't they change all of them to this type of extractor?

E4W · January 18, 2013, 20:55

OK - I need more help!

I have a nearly new FMAP barreled upper with the original locking shoulder installed and no signs of modification or abuse. I want to see if I can determine if it is safe with a new Argentine bolt and carrier I just acquired from Sarco. The bolt without extractor does the following:

1) It will NOT close on a Forster .308 NOGO gauge marked 1.634". Nor of course will it close on the .308 FIELD marked 1.638".

2) Will close easily on Australian F4 headstamped "AFF 89" ball ammo.

3) Will close easily on ??? headstamped "A80 7.62 R1M1" ball ammo.

4) Will close easily on Federal American Eagle 308 150 Grn FMJ.

5) Will close with slight effort on Federal Gold Medal once fired brass from my Remington 700 5R rifle. I don't have any GMM live rounds left to test...

Anyone willing to tell me if they think it is safe to shoot? LOL!

Anything else I can do to check?

Thanks!

Punch the Clown · January 18, 2013, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by E4W

OMG that was easy!

Thank you very much!

Why didn't they change all of them to this type of extractor?

I'm pretty sure the one piece extractor was the early type.

**aezcur** · January 18, 2013, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punch the Clown

I'm pretty sure the one piece extractor was the early type.

Yes, you are correct. The open ear Argy kits came with the one piece extractor (identical to the Israeli). The Argy FAL IV kits came with the latest extractor type (two pieces) and you need the tool. I've read multiple times here in the Forum that the two piece extractor is more reliable than the one piece extractor.

**aezcur** · January 18, 2013, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by E4W

OK - I need more help!

Anything else I can do to check?

Thanks!

I think you need a GO gauge in order to ensure that will close with slight/two thumbs pressure. Then I think you will be OK.

**Hebrew Battle Rifle** · January 18, 2013, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by E4W

OK - I need more help!

I have a nearly new FMAP barreled upper with the original locking shoulder installed and no signs of modification or abuse. I want to see if I can determine if it is safe with a new Argentine bolt and carrier I just acquired from Sarco. The bolt without extractor does the following:

1) It will NOT close on a Forster .308 NOGO gauge marked 1.634". Nor of course will it close on the .308 FIELD marked 1.638".

2) Will close easily on Australian F4 headstamped "AFF 89" ball ammo.

3) Will close easily on ??? headstamped "A80 7.62 R1M1" ball ammo.

4) Will close easily on Federal American Eagle 308 150 Grn FMJ.

5) Will close with slight effort on Federal Gold Medal once fired brass from my Remington 700 5R rifle. I don't have any GMM live rounds left to test...

Anyone willing to tell me if they think it is safe to shoot? LOL!

Anything else I can do to check?

Thanks!

Your rifle is safe to fire. BTW A80 7.62 R1M1 is South African military surplus.

E4W · January 18, 2013, 22:26

Thanks for the info guys!

BTW - What is the correct size measurement for the GO gauge?

**Hebrew Battle Rifle** · January 18, 2013, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by E4W

Thanks for the info guys!

BTW - What is the correct size measurement for the GO gauge?

1.630

E4W · January 18, 2013, 22:59

Thanks - any recommendations on whose gauge to buy?

Is that South African ammo OK?

**aezcur** · January 18, 2013, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by E4W

Thanks - any recommendations on whose gauge to buy?

Is that South African ammo OK?

If you have FORSTER gauges NO-GO and FIELD you MUST get a FORSTER GO gauge. Do not mix different brands.

**Hebrew Battle Rifle** · January 19, 2013, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by E4W

Is that South African ammo OK?

Yes, it is very good ammo.

Highground · January 22, 2013, 13:20

As I stated several days ago that I took the bolt and extractor tool to the gunsmith. He called this morning to say he it took him an another assistant to remove it. He felt the spring is too stiff. After bringing everything back home and using a magnifier glass it looks like the buffer material had swollen and pinched between all coils. The buffer measures about 17/32" in length, not sure if cutting it would be an improvement or not as some have done. The remaining portions possibly could still be pushing into the spring coils and change it's collapse and tension characteristics.

Is this buffer even necessary? Was it designed with full auto in mind? Hopefully you guys have an idea to do before reassembly so this doesn't happen again.

Tnx,

Highground · January 22, 2013, 16:09

I went through a spring kit that Falcon Arms sells and the packaged extractor plunger spring does not have a buffer insert in the spring.

January 14, 2013, 16:53	#1
Highground Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 12919 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 592	*Stubborn #@#SOB Argy Extractor Plunger** This is getting unreal. I have the Sarco Argy kit but have been stalemated with extractor removal for the headspace measurement. Tried a home brew tool that's been used on here and no joy. Just received an original FN extractor tool and it can only pull the plunger back only to the edge of the plunger groove. The plunger will not enter into the groove in order to give clearance for extractor removal. Unless someone has an idea what's wrong I guess this bolt has to go to a gunsmith. Already tried injecting solvent and no gain in movement. So basically it is only compressing up to the point that takes up the visible gap behind the plunger head.

January 14, 2013, 16:57	#2
4 brigada Registered FALaholic #: 17849 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 1,514	Relax take a breath, your doing it right. Oh yeah don't forget the plastic bag. __________________ "Now, pilots are highly trained people, and wings not easily won; but without the work of the maintenance man...our pilots would march with a gun"

January 14, 2013, 18:42	#10
Redec Registered FALaholic #: 66707 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Goodlettsville, Tennessee Posts: 83	I just did this Friday with my Argy kit. The damper is whats causing it. I wrapped my bolt in a rag and then put it in the vise. I got a nail that would go into the extractor hole almost perfect, grabbed it with a pair of pliers and pushed down with both hands as far and hard as I could. Grab the extractor and push it inward toward the bolt. (This would be a lot easier with 2 people. I did it myself but I wish I had 3 hands.) Keep doing this and trying to work the extractor out. I finally removed it when I was able to push it over and applied pressure in a clock wise angle if that makes sense. It sort of rolled out. It can be done but I did ram a Philips head screw driver into my middle finger lol. I did use my exact o knife and trim a little off the damper. I hope this makes it easier to remove next time. Last edited by Redec; January 14, 2013 at 18:47.

January 16, 2013, 09:22	#20
gunplumber Arrogant Bastard Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 96 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 15,779	I've run into a few extractor spring where the rubber insert was longer than normal. They were a nightmare to R&R. So I did the same as above - razor cut to standard length. __________________ T. Mark Graham Master Gunsmith Arizona Response Systems, LLC

January 16, 2013, 10:53	#22
gunplumber Arrogant Bastard Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 96 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 15,779	I don't know an exact dimension. I just took a new Belgium extractor spring w/insert, and lined it up with the other one. +/- the thickness of the razor. __________________ T. Mark Graham Master Gunsmith Arizona Response Systems, LLC

January 14, 2013, 17:09	#3
Mosin Guy Registered FALaholic #: 46 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 3,652	Try to spray some oil down into the area around the extractor cutout and work it in and out as far as you can to get the oil down into the extractor cutout as you may have some dried up crud behind the extractor plunger preventing the plunger from being compressed enough to remove.

January 14, 2013, 17:14	#6
gobbler Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 44154 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 2,754	Had the same problem several times. Put tension once it gets to the cutout & work it side to side keeping tension. and push down on the back of the extractor as you do it. gobbler

January 14, 2013, 17:16	#7
gunnutt Registered FALaholic #: 14732 Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 136	Clamp down a nail in a vice and use its pointed end to push the extractor back

January 14, 2013, 18:34	#9
gobbler Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 44154 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 2,754	I am looking at a stripped bolt, try lifting up on the front of the extractor when you compress the spring. It has a shoulder right at the begining of the cut-out the extractor & spring holder deal may be hanging on. Pull back on the spring as you lift front of the exractor gobbler

January 15, 2013, 08:02	#14
Highground Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 12919 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 592	Well I give up and accept my defeat. Nothing will stand up to this. Nail shears off, tried a drill bit since it's harder. Plunger head refuses to enter the cutout area. Will take this garbage to the gunsmith and hopefully get out for $40 if I'm lucky. Maybe he can determine the defect.

January 15, 2013, 17:56	#15
Highground Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 12919 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 592	Dropped the bolt off to a gunsmith this morning. Guess it's just another delay for this project. Thanks for all the suggestions just the same.

January 15, 2013, 19:58	#16
Redec Registered FALaholic #: 66707 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Goodlettsville, Tennessee Posts: 83	Sorry it was such a pain. Hopefully your smith will get you fixed up so you can get your rifle head spaced and ready. Waiting sucks.

January 16, 2013, 01:03	#18
FUUN063 Computer Illiterate Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 35576 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Converse, Indiana Posts: 4,594	Those Argy's and Stg's are why I made up my own bolt disassembly tool years ago that works great. None other like it. The handle is a turned down allen head bolt. Here you go. Leland

January 16, 2013, 08:35	#19
Highground Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 12919 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 592	Hi FUUN063, Yes I saw that on another thread when I was searching, excellent work. Anyway I dropped my bolt off to a gunsmith yesterday. There is something seriously wrong if a FN factory tool can't get the job done. My guess is the plunger spring buffer material has swelled into the coils limiting compression. Hopefully he has something heavy duty that will overcome it and maybe discover some other flaw. Thanks for the post!

January 18, 2013, 00:31	#23
Punch the Clown Registered FALaholic #: 68103 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: New York Posts: 3	I must be missing something? Don't the Argy's use the one piece extractors? I just popped mine out with a screwdriver?

January 18, 2013, 20:08	#25
Punch the Clown Registered FALaholic #: 68103 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: New York Posts: 3	http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65357 explains it. It's really easy. All I did was to push the extractor away from the center of the bolt against the spring and using my thumb pushed it straight up. Took about a second.

January 18, 2013, 20:19	#26
E4W Registered FALaholic #: 36717 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 37	OMG that was easy! Thank you very much! Why didn't they change all of them to this type of extractor?

January 18, 2013, 20:55	#27
E4W Registered FALaholic #: 36717 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 37	OK - I need more help! I have a nearly new FMAP barreled upper with the original locking shoulder installed and no signs of modification or abuse. I want to see if I can determine if it is safe with a new Argentine bolt and carrier I just acquired from Sarco. The bolt without extractor does the following: 1) It will NOT close on a Forster .308 NOGO gauge marked 1.634". Nor of course will it close on the .308 FIELD marked 1.638". 2) Will close easily on Australian F4 headstamped "AFF 89" ball ammo. 3) Will close easily on ??? headstamped "A80 7.62 R1M1" ball ammo. 4) Will close easily on Federal American Eagle 308 150 Grn FMJ. 5) Will close with slight effort on Federal Gold Medal once fired brass from my Remington 700 5R rifle. I don't have any GMM live rounds left to test... Anyone willing to tell me if they think it is safe to shoot? LOL! Anything else I can do to check? Thanks!

January 18, 2013, 22:26	#32
E4W Registered FALaholic #: 36717 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 37	Thanks for the info guys! BTW - What is the correct size measurement for the GO gauge?

January 18, 2013, 22:59	#34
E4W Registered FALaholic #: 36717 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 37	Thanks - any recommendations on whose gauge to buy? Is that South African ammo OK?

January 22, 2013, 13:20	#37
Highground Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 12919 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 592	As I stated several days ago that I took the bolt and extractor tool to the gunsmith. He called this morning to say he it took him an another assistant to remove it. He felt the spring is too stiff. After bringing everything back home and using a magnifier glass it looks like the buffer material had swollen and pinched between all coils. The buffer measures about 17/32" in length, not sure if cutting it would be an improvement or not as some have done. The remaining portions possibly could still be pushing into the spring coils and change it's collapse and tension characteristics. Is this buffer even necessary? Was it designed with full auto in mind? Hopefully you guys have an idea to do before reassembly so this doesn't happen again. Tnx, Last edited by Highground; January 22, 2013 at 14:04.

January 22, 2013, 16:09	#38
Highground Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 12919 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 592	I went through a spring kit that Falcon Arms sells and the packaged extractor plunger spring does not have a buffer insert in the spring.

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