Should excellent refinished parts be considered and sold as NOS??

**Thorack** · January 07, 2013, 14:33

Well,

I been in the FAL a game a while and every once in awhile I get sucked into something that looks to good to be true.

My question is, do you consider an excellent condition refinished part, New Old Stock (NOS)?

My personnel opinion is no, they are not equivalent. NOS to me means never installed on a rifle, not "looks new". Several sellers of parts do just this, sell refinished parts as NOS. Others like Gunplumber will tell you he has refinished the part or if its NOS he prices commensurately.

Am I getting worked up over nothing? Whats your opinion should excellent condition refinished parts be considered New Old Stock??

Thanks for your consideration.
Thorack

jdmcomp · January 07, 2013, 14:43

NO

**def90** · January 07, 2013, 14:52

NOS should be NOS period.. Imagine selling a re-chromed bumper to a classic car collector as being NOS? The shit would hit the fan.

Refinished parts regardless of the condition should be sold as "refinished".

**bykerhd** · January 07, 2013, 15:09

No WAY !

New is NEW, never used.
I suppose fitted, but not used would be ok, as long as the seller is upfront about it.

Refinished NOS would be ok if the parts were new and had been poorly stored,m again, if the seller is upfront about it.
I would think the value would be slightly less than pristine NOS.

Used ? refinished ? Fine to sell as exactly that, but never as NOS.
Even a description of used, refinished to like new would be ok, if the pieces are.

**gunplumber** · January 07, 2013, 15:17

No - although I understand the quandary. My used parts, refinished, look better than many NOS parts, that suffer various chips and dings from 50 years storage. New Old Stock FAL magazines, that I opened from the wrapper myself, had slight oxidation and significant staining. NOS is meaningless in my opinion, unless it is clarified by what it actually looks like. Some of my NOS German G1 topcovers have a long longitudinal flaw in the paint from where they were stacked in groups of 10 before cheese-cloth wrapping and dunking in Cosmolene.

The condition of the part is not relevant. All that matters is the buyer receive a part in the same condition (or better) that he expected.

This is what I use.

NEW A+. New. Looks and is new.

NOS A. New, Old Stock. Technically new, but may have tiny dings or scratches from handling and long-term storage

EXC A. Excellent. As good as new, but may show evidence of having been installed in a rifle. Many of my EXC parts are actually new, but I refinished them anyway because my finish is usually nicer and more durable than the original military specification.

VG B. Very Good. May have minor cosmetic blemishes or minor pitting prior to refinish.

GOOD C. Good. Good is the lowest condition where the part will safely and reliably perform its intended function. May show moderate pitting before refinish, or factory authorized repairs.

FAIR D. Fair. Heavy pitting, or parts may require repair to perform safely and reliably, but they are repairable.

POOR F. Poor. Parts may be unrepairable. I don't sell parts in poor condition.

**Mebsuta** · January 07, 2013, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorack

Well,

I been in the FAL a game a while and every once in awhile I get sucked into something that looks to good to be true.

My question is, do you consider an excellent condition refinished part, New Old Stock (NOS)?

My personnel opinion is no, they are not equivalent. NOS to me means never installed on a rifle, not "looks new". Several sellers of parts do just this, sell refinished parts as NOS. Others like Gunplumber will tell you he has refinished the part or if its NOS he prices commensurately.

Am I getting worked up over nothing? Whats your opinion should excellent condition refinished parts be considered New Old Stock??

Thanks for your consideration.
Thorack

No, excellent refinished is not NOS. If I pull the excellent bbl off Mauser 98/29 and refinish it, do I sell it as NOS to a Mauser guy? No way Jose.

nwobhm · January 07, 2013, 17:48

No.

tywest · January 07, 2013, 17:49

No!

NOS is NOS

Not

Refinished used part or even refinished new part, some people really like the idea of using unused old stock parts in original finish.

Me for one appreciates being able to assemble an almost entirely new rifle right down to the spring and screws........but for a beater i wouldnt care either way but accurate descriptions mean alot.....especially when youve bought NOS and you get it and can tell its been refinished.

**007** · January 07, 2013, 17:52

NO!

**rool_303** · January 07, 2013, 19:03

In my opinion, NOS tells you nothing about the condition of the part, other than it is "not used". I once purchased a lot of NOS BM59 magazines that I WISH had been refinished. They were still in the original wrap and mostly covered with cosmo. Unfortunately, the non-greased areas were thick with rust and pitting but, they were NOS...

To answer Thorack's original question, no, refinished is not NOS!

**rochte** · January 07, 2013, 19:20

"Used is new?"

This is like one of those questions that makes smoke start coming out of the robot's head in a cheezy sci-fi flick... "Does not compute! Does not compute!"

**phillyray** · January 07, 2013, 19:33

No, even though when I buy a used car I call it my new car...

ftierson · January 07, 2013, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyray

No, even though when I buy a used car I call it my new car...

As do I ...

But, to the original question, NO...

Forrest

ramiller · January 08, 2013, 11:28

Kind of like marrying a divorced woman with a child, if she put on makeup and a new dress would you call her a virgin?

gunnutt · January 08, 2013, 11:48

Old is the new NEW! Get on board man!

**Bug Tussell** · January 09, 2013, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by rool_303

In my opinion, NOS tells you nothing about the condition of the part, other than it is "not used". I once purchased a lot of NOS BM59 magazines that I WISH had been refinished. They were still in the original wrap and mostly covered with cosmo. Unfortunately, the non-greased areas were thick with rust and pitting but, they were NOS...

To answer Thorack's original question, no, refinished is not NOS!

h

I would not call those BM59 mags NOS. NOS to me is as NEW though OLD STOCK. I don't think labeling something NOS should allow for rust. That's just my opinion and I'm no expert.

**bykerhd** · January 09, 2013, 17:39

I've seen NOS gun, motorcycle and car parts that would be unusable as-is.

Technically new, but poor storage, in some cases, banging around loose in parts bins for years ?, rough handling can give new parts more than their fair share of that "used" look sometimes.

Quite a bit rougher that gunplumber's description would allow for I'm afraid.
Still, TECHNICALLY correct.
Unless one has very good communication and actual pictures from a seller, NOS should be accepted as accurate, with caution.

**4x401** · January 09, 2013, 18:23

HELL NO!!!!

masman · January 11, 2013, 20:11

no any NOS parts should be in orignal packaging and if that packaging has been comprimised the seller should tell the buyer that

ExCdnSoldierInTx · January 11, 2013, 20:32

NOS is exactly that.

If it's refinished,.. It's refinished or restored. Period.

If it's repro, it's repro.

There are no exceptions...

January 07, 2013, 14:33	#1
Thorack Acquisition Corp Dude Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 748 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA Posts: 5,629	Should excellent refinished parts be considered and sold as NOS?? Well, I been in the FAL a game a while and every once in awhile I get sucked into something that looks to good to be true. My question is, do you consider an excellent condition refinished part, New Old Stock (NOS)? My personnel opinion is no, they are not equivalent. NOS to me means never installed on a rifle, not "looks new". Several sellers of parts do just this, sell refinished parts as NOS. Others like Gunplumber will tell you he has refinished the part or if its NOS he prices commensurately. Am I getting worked up over nothing? Whats your opinion should excellent condition refinished parts be considered New Old Stock?? Thanks for your consideration. Thorack __________________ 1. Whenever you are talking to a woman realize this person was born insane and you will never be surprised. 2. Never let Doctors cut on you unless its life or death and ALWAYS get a second opinion. Last edited by Thorack; January 07, 2013 at 15:15.

January 07, 2013, 14:52	#3
def90 Old Fart Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 50609 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado Posts: 8,852	NOS should be NOS period.. Imagine selling a re-chromed bumper to a classic car collector as being NOS? The shit would hit the fan. Refinished parts regardless of the condition should be sold as "refinished". __________________ There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live. Public libraries cannot let the public decide what is allowed in the library, or it would be brimming with pornography and gun magazines.

January 07, 2013, 15:17	#5
gunplumber Arrogant Bastard Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 96 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 15,779	No - although I understand the quandary. My used parts, refinished, look better than many NOS parts, that suffer various chips and dings from 50 years storage. New Old Stock FAL magazines, that I opened from the wrapper myself, had slight oxidation and significant staining. NOS is meaningless in my opinion, unless it is clarified by what it actually looks like. Some of my NOS German G1 topcovers have a long longitudinal flaw in the paint from where they were stacked in groups of 10 before cheese-cloth wrapping and dunking in Cosmolene. The condition of the part is not relevant. All that matters is the buyer receive a part in the same condition (or better) that he expected. This is what I use. NEW A+. New. Looks and is new. NOS A. New, Old Stock. Technically new, but may have tiny dings or scratches from handling and long-term storage EXC A. Excellent. As good as new, but may show evidence of having been installed in a rifle. Many of my EXC parts are actually new, but I refinished them anyway because my finish is usually nicer and more durable than the original military specification. VG B. Very Good. May have minor cosmetic blemishes or minor pitting prior to refinish. GOOD C. Good. Good is the lowest condition where the part will safely and reliably perform its intended function. May show moderate pitting before refinish, or factory authorized repairs. FAIR D. Fair. Heavy pitting, or parts may require repair to perform safely and reliably, but they are repairable. POOR F. Poor. Parts may be unrepairable. I don't sell parts in poor condition. __________________ T. Mark Graham Master Gunsmith Arizona Response Systems, LLC Last edited by gunplumber; January 07, 2013 at 15:22.

January 07, 2013, 17:52	#9
007 Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 14403 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 490	NO! __________________ When it comes down to Steel Case 308/7.62x51 Ammo, Brain food for thought IMHO, The few cents you may save will certainly not outweigh the life you may sacrifice.

January 07, 2013, 19:03	#10
rool_303 Member Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 39758 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 198	In my opinion, NOS tells you nothing about the condition of the part, other than it is "not used". I once purchased a lot of NOS BM59 magazines that I WISH had been refinished. They were still in the original wrap and mostly covered with cosmo. Unfortunately, the non-greased areas were thick with rust and pitting but, they were NOS... To answer Thorack's original question, no, refinished is not NOS! Last edited by rool_303; January 07, 2013 at 19:08.

January 07, 2013, 14:43	#2
jdmcomp Registered FALaholic #: 8267 Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 660	NO

January 07, 2013, 15:09	#4
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	No WAY ! New is NEW, never used. I suppose fitted, but not used would be ok, as long as the seller is upfront about it. Refinished NOS would be ok if the parts were new and had been poorly stored,m again, if the seller is upfront about it. I would think the value would be slightly less than pristine NOS. Used ? refinished ? Fine to sell as exactly that, but never as NOS. Even a description of used, refinished to like new would be ok, if the pieces are.

January 07, 2013, 17:48	#7
nwobhm ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ FALaholic #: 9580 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 5,925	No.

January 07, 2013, 17:49	#8
tywest Registered FALaholic #: 66761 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: West, GA Posts: 1,268	No! NOS is NOS Not Refinished used part or even refinished new part, some people really like the idea of using unused old stock parts in original finish. Me for one appreciates being able to assemble an almost entirely new rifle right down to the spring and screws........but for a beater i wouldnt care either way but accurate descriptions mean alot.....especially when youve bought NOS and you get it and can tell its been refinished.

January 07, 2013, 19:20	#11
rochte Veteran Member Contributor FALaholic #: 16305 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Grosse Pointe, MI Posts: 1,406	"Used is new?" This is like one of those questions that makes smoke start coming out of the robot's head in a cheezy sci-fi flick... "Does not compute! Does not compute!"

January 07, 2013, 19:33	#12
phillyray Veteran Member Contributor FALaholic #: 43105 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Charlotte Posts: 1,542	No, even though when I buy a used car I call it my new car...

January 08, 2013, 11:28	#14
ramiller Registered FALaholic #: 3674 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 994	Kind of like marrying a divorced woman with a child, if she put on makeup and a new dress would you call her a virgin? Last edited by ramiller; January 09, 2013 at 05:50.

January 08, 2013, 11:48	#15
gunnutt Registered FALaholic #: 14732 Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 136	Old is the new NEW! Get on board man!

January 09, 2013, 17:39	#17
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	I've seen NOS gun, motorcycle and car parts that would be unusable as-is. Technically new, but poor storage, in some cases, banging around loose in parts bins for years ?, rough handling can give new parts more than their fair share of that "used" look sometimes. Quite a bit rougher that gunplumber's description would allow for I'm afraid. Still, TECHNICALLY correct. Unless one has very good communication and actual pictures from a seller, NOS should be accepted as accurate, with caution.

January 09, 2013, 18:23	#18
4x401 Please Lord true my aim.. Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 31978 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Waiting for the other shoe to drop.. Posts: 3,685	HELL NO!!!! __________________ It's almost party time friends....Lock & load....

January 11, 2013, 20:11	#19
masman Registered FALaholic #: 781 Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 5,653	no any NOS parts should be in orignal packaging and if that packaging has been comprimised the seller should tell the buyer that __________________ somethings wrong with the world when the best rapper is white.the best golfer is black.the french think that the us is arrogant and the germans don't want to go to war

January 11, 2013, 20:32	#20
ExCdnSoldierInTx Registered FALaholic #: 65552 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Anna, Tx Posts: 634	NOS is exactly that. If it's refinished,.. It's refinished or restored. Period. If it's repro, it's repro. There are no exceptions... __________________ Everything I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9/11

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