Steel cased ammo?

stitcher · January 06, 2013, 15:08

Looking for opinions on pros and cons of steel cased ammo, looking to stock up on a budget. Is the stuff woth the savings?

JasonB · January 06, 2013, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by stitcher

Looking for opinions on pros and cons of steel cased ammo, looking to stock up on a budget. Is the stuff woth the savings?

Seen decent reviews on the Tula stuff and terrible on Wolf, not to mention first hand (around 2002) seeing that something in Wolf .223 would corrode non-chromed parts and having numerous failures out of Wolf 9mm during that time period getting topped off with a squib load.

Also, the only time I have ever had a cracked extractor was with S&B .223 (which the boxes used to be marked exactly the same as S&B brass case .223,) but that was with a parts house extractor and only 1 out of several hundreds of rounds of steel case .223 fired.

stitcher · January 06, 2013, 20:47

Thanks for the info!

Artful · January 06, 2013, 21:08

I used the steel case in a lot of classes (cheap and you don't get to police your brass anyway) - It doesn't seem to be a problem in my AR. But having said that I have had people who have problems running it in their AR at some of the classes.

So I would buy a couple of boxes - clean you weapon well and try them out.

JasonB · January 06, 2013, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artful

I used the steel case in a lot of classes (cheap and you don't get to police your brass anyway) - It doesn't seem to be a problem in my AR. But having said that I have had people who have problems running it in their AR at some of the classes.

So I would buy a couple of boxes - clean you weapon well and try them out.

I can recall claims that some non-chrome chambers wouldn't work with steel case stuff, but that was back when Wolf lacquered case was about the only steel case around(other than the S&B oddity I found) and it still functioned fine in my non-chrome other than rusting the crap out of it.

Good advice too!

**W.E.G.** · January 06, 2013, 22:20

[rant]

Steel-case .223 ammo is sub-standard, and will tie up a lot of AR-15's

There are those who react every time somebody says anything against steel-case .223 ammo.
First they will tell you to "break in" your rifle some more.
Then, if the steel-case .223 still fails they will insist that your rifle is "defective."
Lastly they will begin preaching about how they "wouldn't own a rifle that won't shoot steel-case."

I've had bad luck with steel case in both of my AR-15's.
After about one magazine, it starts short-cycling until a case seizes in the chamber, and the extractor rips the rim off.
On top of that, its underpowered.

Don't use it.

One is a full-length Armalite A2 with standard rifle buffer (chamber appears to be chrome - cannot say for sure about the bore).

Other is a Chrome-lined J&T-sourced 10.5 SBR with H2 buffer (rips rims with, and without, the Gemtech HALO suppressor).

After about one magazine, each rifle starts short-cycling until a case seizes in the chamber, and the extractor rips the rim off.

Neither of my guns are problematic with quality BRASS-CASED ammunition.

_______________________

Seriously, you can try some of that stuff in your rifle if you want.

I recommend that you load three mags each with 20 rounds.

Fire the first mag quickly without pausing.

If the gun has not choked by the end of the first mag, quickly insert the second mag.

Quickly fire 10 rounds from the second mag.

Cease fire.

Wait one minute try to fire the next shot (shot #11 second mag).

If the gun has not choked yet, fire four more shots.

Cease fire.

Wait one minute, and fire the remaining rounds in the mag.

Quickly insert the final mag, and fire all 20 rounds in rapid succession.

If the gun has not choked by the end of the third mag, you may conclude that your rifle *probably* tolerates steel-case ammo.

Otherwise, remember to bring a stiff cleaning rod to the range to bang the stuck cases from the chamber, and remember the stuck cases will be HOT.

The cleaning rod will also become extremely hot after two insertions in a hot bore.

Somebody will be along shortly to remind us that steel-case .223 works fine in AR's so long as you ram a steel-wire brush in the chamber to clean out whatever residue it is that steel-case ammo leaves behind, that brass-case ammo does not leave behind.

Then somebody will remind us that steel-case .223 ammo is fine in AR's unless you make the "mistake" of shooting brass-case ammo in the gun after you shoot the steel-case ammo - as you will discover that if you thought the stuck steel-case ammo was hell, the stuck brass-case ammo is worse by orders of magnitude.

This is what steel-case ammo (lacquer AND poly) do in the two AR’s from my collection.

_________________________________

[/rant]

**rochte** · January 07, 2013, 00:00

About three months ago my son and I ran 500 rounds of Wolf (WPA) through a non-chrome AR, a SIG 556 SWAT and a Norinco 84S with absolutely no problems of any kind. About equal number of rounds through each and all in about an hour (we were just blasting). No black magic or steel brushes involved - just loaded and shot. YMMV.

**Drtrumpet** · January 07, 2013, 00:12

Cylindrical chamber = Brass cased ammunition

Conical chamber = Steel cased ammunition

Potshot · January 07, 2013, 02:59

I've got a 5.45x39 AR, it gobbles the stuff up no problem.

I do appreciate that there is a difference in case taper b/t 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 though...

ltpro · January 07, 2013, 07:45

I've never had an issue with steel in my Fal's , AR's just in my Armalite 308 but thats because it was a pile of crap - looked cool ! Likes others I've seen many reviews from great to horrible .

D P Six · January 07, 2013, 08:11

I never use stainless steel cleaning brushes in any of my firearms and I'm certainly not slamming steel cases into any chambers. Not a scientific opinion, just my biased one.

**J. Armstrong** · January 07, 2013, 08:22

The OP doesn't specify caliber or weapon - if it is a FAL, DO NOT use steel case.
I am ofthe opinion that 7.62x51 being a fairly straight walled case, steel is not an option at all regardless of the weapon involved, but that's JMHO.

Brian in MN · January 07, 2013, 09:57

5.56mm steel case will run fine in anything EXCEPT an AR-15. I have fired it through half a dozen piston rifles and an HK clone without any problems. I have never tried an AR with a piston.

**StG58Freak** · January 07, 2013, 10:05

Funny my BCM carbines have all run steel without one problem. One carbine has at least five thousand rounds of steel case ammo through it.

**rochte** · January 07, 2013, 11:38

One can only conclude that karma is the deciding factor....

**K. Funk** · January 07, 2013, 11:53

I have run up to 1k wolf through my Sendra conversion with no issues. I start to get sporadic fte's after that. I have 5 AR's, they all run on steel case with few issues. Not saying better or worse than brass, just that that I run it in most of my guns such as 9mm .40 s&w .45acp and .223 satisfactorily.

krf

Kyrottimus · January 07, 2013, 12:15

If you have Russian blood in your veins, the ammo Karma gods will smile upon your ferric-cased rounds of glasnost-inducing projectiles.

Preeyatna poznikomitza, moi drug!

(Really, make sure your chamber at least is chromed and that your extractor has ample force and also that your weapon is tuned so the bolt does not unlock too soon--I.E. retard your BC's rearward travel enough so it begins extraction after chamber pressures are at their lowest. Then once everything runs ok, get over the fact that steel ammo will increase wear-and-tear on your extractor--among other parts--faster than brass).

[Edit--avoid lacquer cases in .223/5.56 as there is not sufficient case-taper to self-clean this melt-prone substance during operation]

Carrier assembly speed is incredibly relevant and important to how an AR functions. If you are getting huge extractor gouges in your case-rims, one of 3 things is the culprit (or a little of all 3):

1. Your bolt is unlocking too soon and thus extracting too soon while there is still pressure within the spent case. -- Cause: overgassed or too light of a BCA/Buffer. -- Fix: Get a FA Bolt-Carrier and/or an H2/H3 buffer and/or new buffer spring.

This problem isn't as prevalent with brass as brass is far less prone to sticking to the inner walls of a chamber.

2. Your extractor is too weak. -- Cause: wore out extractor spring. -- Fix: Get new Extractor Spring.
3. Your chamber is too rough/unchromed. --Cause: Crappy chamber. -- Fix: Polish your chamber or get a new barrel.

stitcher · January 07, 2013, 17:20

Thanks for all the info, I've always fed mine brass I will stick with it!

Dasho101 · January 07, 2013, 18:12

i shoot steel and brass no issue with ether.... only steel i shoot is tula though.

PARA FN FAL · January 08, 2013, 06:56

Steel cased shooter here. No problems in 223 or 308.

MistWolf · January 08, 2013, 19:03

Here is an excellent article about shooting steel cased ammo vs brass. The "bi-metal" jacket wore out the barrels much faster than the copper jacketed bullets did
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

...make sure...that your weapon is tuned so the bolt does not unlock too soon--I.E. retard your BC's rearward travel enough so it begins extraction after chamber pressures are at their lowest...

1. Your bolt is unlocking too soon and thus extracting too soon while there is still pressure within the spent case. -- Cause: overgassed or too light of a BCA/Buffer. -- Fix: Get a FA Bolt-Carrier and/or an H2/H3 buffer and/or new buffer spring...

You do realize that the BCG does not start moving until after the bullet clears the muzzle

STGThndr · January 08, 2013, 23:25

I came into a Bushie some years back (the last ban) and with it came a near-case of steel cased lacquered ammo. Wolf, IIRC. So I had no problems with it and in fact is probably the larger part of ammo that Bushie has fired. I was careful to keep the rifle clean but didnt "hone" the chamber with a brush on a drill as some suggest.... Never saw cases like the one WEG has posted. Just lucky I guess.
The ammo is different but that Bush is one of my house "go to" guns. I dunno why some folks diss Bushmaster. Knowing what I have heard, I wouldnt choose to run steelcase thru my Colts..

MistWolf · January 08, 2013, 23:30

Same reason FALFilers dis Century

JasonB · January 09, 2013, 05:19

Back when Wolf lacquered cases were common someone heated one with a torch(can't recall if it was pics or vids as well) and couldn't get it to come off.

**J. Armstrong** · January 09, 2013, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by STGThndr

I came into a Bushie some years back (the last ban) and with it came a near-case of steel cased lacquered ammo. Wolf, IIRC. So I had no problems with it and in fact is probably the larger part of ammo that Bushie has fired. I was careful to keep the rifle clean but didnt "hone" the chamber with a brush on a drill as some suggest.... Never saw cases like the one WEG has posted. Just lucky I guess.
The ammo is different but that Bush is one of my house "go to" guns. I dunno why some folks diss Bushmaster. Knowing what I have heard, I wouldnt choose to run steelcase thru my Colts..

My sole AR is an early Bushie carbine with a fluted medium weight barrel. Don't know how much, if any, was steel, but it's had 1-2k through it of any 5.56 I could scrounge without a hitch.

I've been told the early Bushmasters were pretty good, not so much in recent years. I know that I briefly owned a Colt carbine similar to the Bushie and the Colt was a POS so I sold it and kept the Bushie. I don't regret it one little bit.

**W.E.G.** · January 09, 2013, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistWolf

Here is an excellent article about shooting steel cased ammo vs brass.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

That article is without-doubt the most exhaustive, and well-done, exposition I have ever seen on this subject.

Thanks for the link!

Ironhandjohn · January 09, 2013, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonB

Back when Wolf lacquered cases were common someone heated one with a torch(can't recall if it was pics or vids as well) and couldn't get it to come off.

+1.

It's the red case-mouth and primer sealant that flakes off and can cause gumming up, NOT the actual lacquer on the case.

I've shot around 10,000 rounds of Wolf .223, most of it the green lacquered case variety, without problems through the AR-15s I owned at the time. The guns used were a 1978-era Colt SP-1, a Franken-rifle A2 that had an FN barrel, and my son's CAR-15 with a Bushmaster "pencil" barrel. All of these had chrome-lined bores and chambers except the CAR-15, and that was only because we used the barrel from the J&T kit. It DID have problems choking on Wolf at first but once we swapped the barrel out it never balked at Wolf again.

**StG58Freak** · January 09, 2013, 09:29

Wow that is an awesome article. Thanks

littlematt · January 09, 2013, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistWolf

Here is an excellent article about shooting steel cased ammo vs brass. The "bi-metal" jacket wore out the barrels much faster than the copper jacketed bullets did
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

You do realize that the BCG does not start moving until after the bullet clears the muzzle

i linked this one in the ammo section, too. they did a really good job

however, i don't shoot steel in my ar's

JasonB · January 09, 2013, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistWolf

The "bi-metal" jacket wore out the barrels much faster than the copper jacketed bullets did

Doesn't bode well for a fair amount of surplus 7.62x51. Always wondered about that and everyone I asked thought it was of no consequence.

**rochte** · January 09, 2013, 20:16

So if I read the summary correctly, they shot up 36,000 rounds of .223 (10k of three types, 6k of another) just to write that article. In addition, they spent a fair amount of time in the machine shop, dissecting (and completely destroying) the four AR barrels.

This makes me wonder: who sponsored the test and article? Since they just happen to SELL ammunition, is it possible that their supplier (or manufacturer) of brass-cased, copper-jacketed ammo had something to do with it?

It all just seems a little too convenient and predictable - not to mention EXPENSIVE, if all you're doing is creating content for your web site.

JasonB · January 09, 2013, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochte

So if I read the summary correctly, they shot up 36,000 rounds of .223 (10k of three types, 6k of another) just to write that article. In addition, they spent a fair amount of time in the machine shop, dissecting (and completely destroying) the four AR barrels.

This makes me wonder: who sponsored the test and article? Since they just happen to SELL ammunition, is it possible that their supplier (or manufacturer) of brass-cased, copper-jacketed ammo had something to do with it?

It all just seems a little too convenient and predictable - not to mention EXPENSIVE, if all you're doing is creating content for your web site.

I wondered about that last night, but never thought to check it either. Looks like they currently sell every brand of ammo they tested except the (was it Silver or Brown?) Bear.

http://www.luckygunner.com/brands

I did catch their position that the cost of ammo vs. cost of barrel at fewer rounds was still in favor of the steel cased ammo in the review.

littlematt · January 09, 2013, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonB

I wondered about that last night, but never thought to check it either. Looks like they currently sell every brand of ammo they tested except the (was it Silver or Brown?) Bear.

http://www.luckygunner.com/brands

I did catch their position that the cost of ammo vs. cost of barrel at fewer rounds was still in favor of the steel cased ammo in the review.

Yep. They said steel was the way to go and that their testing was more than what most would put a rifle through.

I don't think they have a spin

And after reading it through i still won't shoot steel

I'm not sure they are selling something. My opinion

Timber Wolf · January 10, 2013, 15:30

Have shot a lot of Steel Cased .223 through various, mostly franken, ARs. I have also seen and had stuck cases in AR chambers. One was on another guys AR and it stuck the bolt closed. I got it open by tapping the carrier through the port using a chunk of wood as a punch. Another was on my AR and it ripped the rim and was easily knocked out with a cleaning rod. I will continue to use steel cased for classes. I will NOT use steel cased for practice (because I will use reloads and a case catcher), 3-Gun competitions, or war. OK, if I am all out of brass cased and the war ain’t over for me yet, I will use steel cased. But, my advice to you is that it is crap, don't use it, and for sure don't pay big money for it.

STGThndr · January 10, 2013, 16:25

Somethin else I remembered from the foggy vaults of yesteryear.. I picked up a case of 8mm, either it was Nazi-made or made in a Nazi plant right after the war. Dark green case
and looked like the lacquered stuff. I managed to shoot quite a bit of this stuff, not knowing at the time when or if we would be getting any more 8mm. The markings on the case I seem to recollect looked German and the case (box) itself looked 3rd Reich-ish with what appeared to be German on it. The ammo itself was a real kick in the heinie, loud, flashy and fairly stout. Anyway the stuff had held up well and was probably the first steel-cased ammo I ever used. No issues with lacquer or anything else gumming my Mausers.

Fn/form · January 13, 2013, 10:37

The Lucky Gunner guys do a lot of their own testing. They share a lot of it with the shooting community. I don't suspect any foul play.

Their ammo prices are always... way up there. I don't know anyone who buys from them.

January 06, 2013, 20:47	#3
stitcher Registered FALaholic #: 65879 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Somerset, Pa Posts: 307	Thanks for the info! __________________ "There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edmund Burke

January 06, 2013, 21:08	#4
Artful Registered FALaholic #: 10191 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: arizona Posts: 2,160	I used the steel case in a lot of classes (cheap and you don't get to police your brass anyway) - It doesn't seem to be a problem in my AR. But having said that I have had people who have problems running it in their AR at some of the classes. So I would buy a couple of boxes - clean you weapon well and try them out. __________________ I'm not Fat, just Tactially Padded

January 06, 2013, 22:20	#6
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,055	[rant] Steel-case .223 ammo is sub-standard, and will tie up a lot of AR-15's There are those who react every time somebody says anything against steel-case .223 ammo. First they will tell you to "break in" your rifle some more. Then, if the steel-case .223 still fails they will insist that your rifle is "defective." Lastly they will begin preaching about how they "wouldn't own a rifle that won't shoot steel-case." I've had bad luck with steel case in both of my AR-15's. After about one magazine, it starts short-cycling until a case seizes in the chamber, and the extractor rips the rim off. On top of that, its underpowered. Don't use it. One is a full-length Armalite A2 with standard rifle buffer (chamber appears to be chrome - cannot say for sure about the bore). Other is a Chrome-lined J&T-sourced 10.5 SBR with H2 buffer (rips rims with, and without, the Gemtech HALO suppressor). After about one magazine, each rifle starts short-cycling until a case seizes in the chamber, and the extractor rips the rim off. Neither of my guns are problematic with quality BRASS-CASED ammunition. _______________________ Seriously, you can try some of that stuff in your rifle if you want. I recommend that you load three mags each with 20 rounds. Fire the first mag quickly without pausing. If the gun has not choked by the end of the first mag, quickly insert the second mag. Quickly fire 10 rounds from the second mag. Cease fire. Wait one minute try to fire the next shot (shot #11 second mag). If the gun has not choked yet, fire four more shots. Cease fire. Wait one minute, and fire the remaining rounds in the mag. Quickly insert the final mag, and fire all 20 rounds in rapid succession. If the gun has not choked by the end of the third mag, you may conclude that your rifle probably tolerates steel-case ammo. Otherwise, remember to bring a stiff cleaning rod to the range to bang the stuck cases from the chamber, and remember the stuck cases will be HOT. The cleaning rod will also become extremely hot after two insertions in a hot bore. Somebody will be along shortly to remind us that steel-case .223 works fine in AR's so long as you ram a steel-wire brush in the chamber to clean out whatever residue it is that steel-case ammo leaves behind, that brass-case ammo does not leave behind. Then somebody will remind us that steel-case .223 ammo is fine in AR's unless you make the "mistake" of shooting brass-case ammo in the gun after you shoot the steel-case ammo - as you will discover that if you thought the stuck steel-case ammo was hell, the stuck brass-case ammo is worse by orders of magnitude. This is what steel-case ammo (lacquer AND poly) do in the two AR’s from my collection. _________________________________ [/rant] __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 07, 2013, 02:59	#9
Potshot Registered FALaholic #: 6398 Join Date: May 2002 Location: xxx Posts: 1,103	I've got a 5.45x39 AR, it gobbles the stuff up no problem. I do appreciate that there is a difference in case taper b/t 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 though... __________________ "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." --- Adolf Hitler "If it was up to me, no one but law enforcement officers would own hand guns..." Chicago Mayor Richard Daley "Armas para que?" ("Guns, for what?") -- Fidel Castro

January 07, 2013, 08:22	#12
J. Armstrong Minister of Amusement Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 13629 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE Pa Posts: 8,497	The OP doesn't specify caliber or weapon - if it is a FAL, DO NOT use steel case. I am ofthe opinion that 7.62x51 being a fairly straight walled case, steel is not an option at all regardless of the weapon involved, but that's JMHO. __________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools" Herbert Spenser "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

January 06, 2013, 15:08	#1
stitcher Registered FALaholic #: 65879 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Somerset, Pa Posts: 307	Steel cased ammo? Looking for opinions on pros and cons of steel cased ammo, looking to stock up on a budget. Is the stuff woth the savings? __________________ "There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edmund Burke

January 07, 2013, 00:00	#7
rochte Veteran Member Contributor FALaholic #: 16305 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Grosse Pointe, MI Posts: 1,406	About three months ago my son and I ran 500 rounds of Wolf (WPA) through a non-chrome AR, a SIG 556 SWAT and a Norinco 84S with absolutely no problems of any kind. About equal number of rounds through each and all in about an hour (we were just blasting). No black magic or steel brushes involved - just loaded and shot. YMMV.

January 07, 2013, 00:12	#8
Drtrumpet Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 32722 Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,114	Cylindrical chamber = Brass cased ammunition Conical chamber = Steel cased ammunition

January 07, 2013, 07:45	#10
ltpro Registered FALaholic #: 67580 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: N.Carolina Posts: 108	I've never had an issue with steel in my Fal's , AR's just in my Armalite 308 but thats because it was a pile of crap - looked cool ! Likes others I've seen many reviews from great to horrible .

January 07, 2013, 08:11	#11
D P Six Registered FALaholic #: 15219 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,083	I never use stainless steel cleaning brushes in any of my firearms and I'm certainly not slamming steel cases into any chambers. Not a scientific opinion, just my biased one.

January 07, 2013, 09:57	#13
Brian in MN Registered FALaholic #: 289 Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,927	5.56mm steel case will run fine in anything EXCEPT an AR-15. I have fired it through half a dozen piston rifles and an HK clone without any problems. I have never tried an AR with a piston. __________________ Kalashnikov: The most successful point and click interface in the world.

January 07, 2013, 10:05	#14
StG58Freak banned Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 21043 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Behind You. Posts: 2,332	Funny my BCM carbines have all run steel without one problem. One carbine has at least five thousand rounds of steel case ammo through it.

January 07, 2013, 11:38	#15
rochte Veteran Member Contributor FALaholic #: 16305 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Grosse Pointe, MI Posts: 1,406	One can only conclude that karma is the deciding factor....

January 07, 2013, 11:53	#16
K. Funk Real Life Metallurgist Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 38 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Myerstown, PA Posts: 3,939	I have run up to 1k wolf through my Sendra conversion with no issues. I start to get sporadic fte's after that. I have 5 AR's, they all run on steel case with few issues. Not saying better or worse than brass, just that that I run it in most of my guns such as 9mm .40 s&w .45acp and .223 satisfactorily. krf __________________ The Mason-Dixon FAL Association wants YOU!! Ask me for details. You never know what's going on inside the mind of a crazy man!! Check out username kandainv on Gunbroker; always some neat stuff!! FYB!!!!

January 07, 2013, 12:15	#17
Kyrottimus Registered FALaholic #: 18036 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 3,042	If you have Russian blood in your veins, the ammo Karma gods will smile upon your ferric-cased rounds of glasnost-inducing projectiles. Preeyatna poznikomitza, moi drug! (Really, make sure your chamber at least is chromed and that your extractor has ample force and also that your weapon is tuned so the bolt does not unlock too soon--I.E. retard your BC's rearward travel enough so it begins extraction after chamber pressures are at their lowest. Then once everything runs ok, get over the fact that steel ammo will increase wear-and-tear on your extractor--among other parts--faster than brass). [Edit--avoid lacquer cases in .223/5.56 as there is not sufficient case-taper to self-clean this melt-prone substance during operation] Carrier assembly speed is incredibly relevant and important to how an AR functions. If you are getting huge extractor gouges in your case-rims, one of 3 things is the culprit (or a little of all 3): 1. Your bolt is unlocking too soon and thus extracting too soon while there is still pressure within the spent case. -- Cause: overgassed or too light of a BCA/Buffer. -- Fix: Get a FA Bolt-Carrier and/or an H2/H3 buffer and/or new buffer spring. This problem isn't as prevalent with brass as brass is far less prone to sticking to the inner walls of a chamber. 2. Your extractor is too weak. -- Cause: wore out extractor spring. -- Fix: Get new Extractor Spring. 3. Your chamber is too rough/unchromed. --Cause: Crappy chamber. -- Fix: Polish your chamber or get a new barrel. __________________ Anomaly in Progress Esto Perpetua; Semper Armatus, Semper Liberi Last edited by Kyrottimus; January 07, 2013 at 12:27.

January 07, 2013, 17:20	#18
stitcher Registered FALaholic #: 65879 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Somerset, Pa Posts: 307	Thanks for all the info, I've always fed mine brass I will stick with it! __________________ "There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edmund Burke

January 07, 2013, 18:12	#19
Dasho101 Registered FALaholic #: 50568 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Richmond, va Posts: 127	i shoot steel and brass no issue with ether.... only steel i shoot is tula though.

January 08, 2013, 06:56	#20
PARA FN FAL Registered FALaholic #: 17487 Join Date: May 2005 Location: las vegas Posts: 1,094	Steel cased shooter here. No problems in 223 or 308.

January 08, 2013, 23:25	#22
STGThndr Registered FALaholic #: 14583 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern Colorado mtns and desert Posts: 3,409	another two-scents worth I came into a Bushie some years back (the last ban) and with it came a near-case of steel cased lacquered ammo. Wolf, IIRC. So I had no problems with it and in fact is probably the larger part of ammo that Bushie has fired. I was careful to keep the rifle clean but didnt "hone" the chamber with a brush on a drill as some suggest.... Never saw cases like the one WEG has posted. Just lucky I guess. The ammo is different but that Bush is one of my house "go to" guns. I dunno why some folks diss Bushmaster. Knowing what I have heard, I wouldnt choose to run steelcase thru my Colts.. __________________ Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B Yeats

January 08, 2013, 23:30	#23
MistWolf Registered FALaholic #: 7435 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Utah Posts: 2,154	Same reason FALFilers dis Century __________________ "Mom! Phineas and Pherb are in the backyard building FALs!"

January 09, 2013, 05:19	#24
JasonB Registered FALaholic #: 7430 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: 90° N 0° W Posts: 9,222	Back when Wolf lacquered cases were common someone heated one with a torch(can't recall if it was pics or vids as well) and couldn't get it to come off. __________________ On Romney's being anti-gun.."If Barney Frank ran for president, I wouldn't need him to tell me in a debate that he'd still be gay if elected."-Shlomo

January 09, 2013, 09:29	#28
StG58Freak banned Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 21043 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Behind You. Posts: 2,332	Wow that is an awesome article. Thanks

January 09, 2013, 20:16	#31
rochte Veteran Member Contributor FALaholic #: 16305 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Grosse Pointe, MI Posts: 1,406	So if I read the summary correctly, they shot up 36,000 rounds of .223 (10k of three types, 6k of another) just to write that article. In addition, they spent a fair amount of time in the machine shop, dissecting (and completely destroying) the four AR barrels. This makes me wonder: who sponsored the test and article? Since they just happen to SELL ammunition, is it possible that their supplier (or manufacturer) of brass-cased, copper-jacketed ammo had something to do with it? It all just seems a little too convenient and predictable - not to mention EXPENSIVE, if all you're doing is creating content for your web site.

January 10, 2013, 15:30	#34
Timber Wolf Registered FALaholic #: 805 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 2,801	Have shot a lot of Steel Cased .223 through various, mostly franken, ARs. I have also seen and had stuck cases in AR chambers. One was on another guys AR and it stuck the bolt closed. I got it open by tapping the carrier through the port using a chunk of wood as a punch. Another was on my AR and it ripped the rim and was easily knocked out with a cleaning rod. I will continue to use steel cased for classes. I will NOT use steel cased for practice (because I will use reloads and a case catcher), 3-Gun competitions, or war. OK, if I am all out of brass cased and the war ain’t over for me yet, I will use steel cased. But, my advice to you is that it is crap, don't use it, and for sure don't pay big money for it. __________________ First rule of gun fighting: "have a gun!" "Guns don't kill people. Daddys with good looking daughters do!"

January 10, 2013, 16:25	#35
STGThndr Registered FALaholic #: 14583 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern Colorado mtns and desert Posts: 3,409	Somethin else I remembered from the foggy vaults of yesteryear.. I picked up a case of 8mm, either it was Nazi-made or made in a Nazi plant right after the war. Dark green case and looked like the lacquered stuff. I managed to shoot quite a bit of this stuff, not knowing at the time when or if we would be getting any more 8mm. The markings on the case I seem to recollect looked German and the case (box) itself looked 3rd Reich-ish with what appeared to be German on it. The ammo itself was a real kick in the heinie, loud, flashy and fairly stout. Anyway the stuff had held up well and was probably the first steel-cased ammo I ever used. No issues with lacquer or anything else gumming my Mausers. __________________ Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B Yeats

January 13, 2013, 10:37	#36
Fn/form Function over Form Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 14765 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 1,242	The Lucky Gunner guys do a lot of their own testing. They share a lot of it with the shooting community. I don't suspect any foul play. Their ammo prices are always... way up there. I don't know anyone who buys from them.

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