Ron Paul turns against the nra

[gunnut1]

http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/...tions-schools/

So is the the much praised Ron Paul you guys have always drooled over. Seems to me he is a turning his back on the NRA.

THE TITLE CHANGE IS FOR ALL OF THE WHINERS OUT THERE ABOUT MY USE OF THE TERM TURN COAT. If Paul was truly on our side he would not turn his back on the NRA.

[EPC WN]

I think he's always been against creating a government mandated police state. It does cost money to hire more cops. I'm in the boat that responsible citizens should be armed anywhere and everywhere. If those citizens happen to be teachers, janitors, principals, or lunch ladies then all the better. Turncoat rhetoric seems to miss the point of the personal responsibility expoused by most libertarians. More armed government employees is the least desirable outcome in all this for myself but if it's their only answer I guess we can always print up more money and benefits...

[V guy]

He lives in a cloistered world, set back in the 1840's..........always did.

His books on the economics date back to Andrew Jackson and the Austrian schools roots that date from Jacksonian economics too...........it was Jackson who destroyed the National Bank.........but we went through that long ago.

[wkendwarrior2003]

Originally Posted by gunnut1

http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/...tions-schools/

So is the the much praised Ron Paul you guys have always drooled over. Seems to me he is a turn coat.

Sir, you have an odd notion of what a turn coat is to say the least. I take it you did in fact read the article? Do you really want more government provided security? Provided by the same government that sells guns to Mexican drug cartels and supports Al Qaeda over in Libya and Syria (and lies about it)?

BTW, I'm guessing he also breaks with the NRA on whether or not the NFA is constitutional--would that make him a traitor also? If so, traitor to whom?

[starbuck]

I think he had a problem with the gov paying for it. I don't think he had a problem with the NRA's program of volunteers.

[V guy]

Works just fine in NYS............

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by EPC WN

I think he's always been against creating a government mandated police state. It does cost money to hire more cops. I'm in the boat that responsible citizens should be armed anywhere and everywhere. If those citizens happen to be teachers, janitors, principals, or lunch ladies then all the better. Turncoat rhetoric seems to miss the point of the personal responsibility expoused by most libertarians. More armed government employees is the least desirable outcome in all this for myself but if it's their only answer I guess we can always print up more money and benefits...

Not to mention there are already enough officers to make sure none of the adults(save the 1 who chose to ignore laws on murder) in the building were able to put up a defense.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by V guy

He lives in a cloistered world, set back in the 1840's..........always did.

His books on the economics date back to Andrew Jackson and the Austrian schools roots that date from Jacksonian economics too...........it was Jackson who destroyed the National Bank.........but we went through that long ago.

The economic flavors you promote have worked so well down through the years. I would hate to see what you consider a failure of ideas you promote.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by gunnut1

Seems to me he is a turn coat.

Seems to me he would to you.

[carguym14]

Ron Paul a turncoat?Seriously?

All these years and you have learned nothing.NOTHING.

[EPC WN]

Originally Posted by carguym14

Ron Paul a turncoat?Seriously?

All these years and you have learned nothing.NOTHING.

Old dog and new tricks? Haven't you heard it just ain't happening?

[longhair51]

Originally Posted by starbuck

I think he had a problem with the gov paying for it.

Some of the points I picked up on: government security.......another kind of violence.....do not justify...Orwellian.

I think he was spot on.

[L Haney]

Originally Posted by wkendwarrior2003

... and supports Al Qaeda over in Libya and Syria (and lies about it)?

If our government had the balls to tell a particular segment of our military "Identify them, find them, kill them.", the global stage would be vastly different in twelve months. But nobody in washington is going to say that. Least of all the CIC.

[RG Coburn]

Oh,goody....TSA in the elementary schools...
"come over here young fella...what's that bulge in your pants"....

[JeffJ]

Seems like this is Ron being Ron...Government is never the correct answer.

We really need to figure out how to let people buy a clue.

[gaijinsamurai]

Sorry, but anyone who knows anything about Dr. Paul knows he's hardly being "a turncoat", but rather, standing up for Libertarian principles. He still has my respect.

[2barearms]

Damn near every school district in Texas has it's own Police Force
and swat team. If that's a Police State so be it. How much IS a Dead
Child worth anyway, according to the NEA not enough to help cover the cost.

[martin35]

Unless a Principle is well armed he/she or it will not stop armed school violence,,, that is a fact of life and a law of physics according to Sam Colt, Smith & Wesson and John Browning.
Ron Paul's quotes from the link do little more than suggest that dying is preferable than submitting to any form of vetting for a elective event such as travel in a public conveyance or attending a public school,,, where is is his survivable alternative?
Ron Paul's entire life like most of us has been spent being made secure by others with weapons,,, our least able to defend themselves deserve no less.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by martin35

Unless a Principle is well armed he/she or it will not stop armed school violence,,, that is a fact of life and a law of physics according to Sam Colt, Smith & Wesson and John Browning.
Ron Paul's quotes from the link do little more than suggest that dying is preferable than submitting to any form of vetting for a elective event such as travel in a public conveyance or attending a public school,,, where is is his survivable alternative?
Ron Paul's entire life like most of us has been spent being made secure by others with weapons,,, our least able to defend themselves deserve no less.

Much like a neutered dog, you don't get it.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by martin35

Unless a Principle is well armed he/she or it will not stop armed school violence,,,

Depends on who controls the Premises.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by 2barearms

Damn near every school district in Texas has it's own Police Force
and swat team. If that's a Police State so be it. How much IS a Dead
Child worth anyway, according to the NEA not enough to help cover the cost.

They had police at Sandy Hook. They made sure no one in the school was armed as were able to see later in the day.

[martin35]

Originally Posted by JasonB

Much like a neutered dog, you don't get it.

Neutered dog is a allegation you have never made in-person I'm sure,,, you are a lying little mother fucker of the first order,,, why mince words?

[martin35]

How many of you will fly a no search airlines?
Due to the many requests that passengers not be subjected to the indignities of being verified for threat potential and lack of a alternative to present day regulation I am suggesting we start a two new airline where any and all can buy a ticket and fly,,, stock should go on sale for the Allah Akbar and Kamikaze Air lines as soon as sufficient public subscriptions are verified.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by martin35

Neutered dog is a allegation you have never made in-person I'm sure,,, you are a lying little mother fucker of the first order,,, why mince words?

I didn't lie about anything. You don't get it.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by martin35

How many of you will fly a no search airlines?
Due to the many requests that passengers not be subjected to the indignities of being verified for threat potential and lack of a alternative to present day regulation I am suggesting we start a two new airline where any and all can buy a ticket and fly,,, stock should go on sale for the Allah Akbar and Kamikaze Air lines as soon as sufficient public subscriptions are verified.

So you are claiming there was no airline security prior to 9/11/01? Seems like there was enough to keep most of the passengers unarmed from what I can recall.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by martin35

How many of you will fly a no search airlines?

I would, in a heartbeat.

You wouldn't?

[carguym14]

Originally Posted by martin35

Unless a Principle is well armed he/she or it will not stop armed school violence,,, that is a fact of life and a law of physics according to Sam Colt, Smith & Wesson and John Browning.
Ron Paul's quotes from the link do little more than suggest that dying is preferable than submitting to any form of vetting for a elective event such as travel in a public conveyance or attending a public school,,, where is is his survivable alternative?
Ron Paul's entire life like most of us has been spent being made secure by others with weapons,,, our least able to defend themselves deserve no less.

Key word-"SUBMITTING".

You're OK with giving up liberty for some security.eh?

Do we need TSA at all sports events?Concerts?Shopping Malls?

Look at your grandchildren-they will never have the freedom we had.Lucky for them,they had no taste of it so will no really miss it.They will grow up in a world where submit,conform,and obey are taught to them at a young age and they don't know any better.
Hope you are proud of the country you are leaving them.

[martin35]

Online bravado is something that is proven to add to the machismo of some minds, I have probably flown more apprehensive miles than almost any who post here, it was how I got to work job to job around the world for many years.
In a couple of instances when there were in-flight problems and disaster was in the offering there was no indignity I would have not undergone to make a safe landing,,, I dare say the indignity of pissing your pants before dying is of no concern to those of you with the "give me Liberty or give me death" air transportation credo,,, that being more easily done than you might simplistically comprehend.
I suscribe to the "what can go wrong will go wrong if you do nothing" theory,, to that end I will contend with compyling with what can be done to make me and mine safe in the air.

[martin35]

Originally Posted by carguym14

Key word-"SUBMITTING".

You're OK with giving up liberty for some security.eh?

Do we need TSA at all sports events?Concerts?Shopping Malls?

Look at your grandchildren-they will never have the freedom we had.Lucky for them,they had no taste of it so will no really miss it.They will grow up in a world where submit,conform,and obey are taught to them at a young age and they don't know any better.
Hope you are proud of the country you are leaving them.

Your right to attend any public function should transcend the right of others to expect a secure environment is what I'm hearing,,, they should take their chances for your convenience.
When my active fighting for your rights was done in 1953 it was the rest of you weak sisters who dropped the ball if all you did was complain and cast aspersions ,,, like now.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by martin35

In a couple of instances when there were in-flight problems and disaster was in the offering there was no indignity I would have not undergone to make a safe landing,,, I dare say the indignity of pissing your pants before dying is of no concern to those of you with the "give me Liberty or give me death" air transportation credo,,, that being more easily done than you might simplistically comprehend.

Just confirms what I decided almost forty years ago. I would have made a poor Marine.

[EPC WN]

Originally Posted by shlomo

I would, in a heartbeat.

You wouldn't?

Um yes. Yes I would.

[Mebsuta]

I wouldn't say that he turned coat. He criticized NRA on one side and Feinstein and them on the other, which is fine and I agree with a lot of what he says. However, he doesn't really offer an alternative to a govt that is determined to do something.

In my opinion, that's pretty much what you get with Ron Paul.

He says this: "Real change can happen only when we commit ourselves to rebuilding civil society in America, meaning a society based on family, religion, civic and social institutions, and peaceful cooperation through markets."

Well, how do you do that? I have no idea.

[carguym14]

Originally Posted by martin35

Your right to attend any public function should transcend the right of others to expect a secure environment is what I'm hearing,,, they should take their chances for your convenience.
When my active fighting for your rights was done in 1953 it was the rest of you weak sisters who dropped the ball if all you did was complain and cast aspersions ,,, like now.

Which of our rights were you fighting for?

You think we are safer with the TSA searching everyone?If TSA people can steal cameras/laptops/etc,they sure as heel could plant a small explosive device as well.

I get that you are pro State/big government,I just don't get how you think they are actually keeping you safe.If they had done their job in the first place as far as immigrants/visas,these guys would not have been in the country to commit hijackings with boxcutters.
Luckily they have secured the borders and there is no way any terrorists could possibly get into the country.

The job of the State is to grow and accumulate power,while blowing smoke up your ass about it being for your safety and security.Too many enjoy that smoke.

[EPC WN]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

I wouldn't say that he turned coat. He criticized NRA on one side and Feinstein and them on the other, which is fine and I agree with a lot of what he says. However, he doesn't really offer an alternative to a govt that is determined to do something.

In my opinion, that's pretty much what you get with Ron Paul.

He says this: "Real change can happen only when we commit ourselves to rebuilding civil society in America, meaning a society based on family, religion, civic and social institutions, and peaceful cooperation through markets."

Well, how do you do that? I have no idea.

It means raise your own children, make sure they understand the 10 Commandments and the associated consequences of not doing so, and that your rights end where someone else's nose begins. Any other questions?

[Mebsuta]

Originally Posted by EPC WN

It means raise your own children, make sure they understand the 10 Commandments and the associated consequences of not doing so, and that your rights end where someone else's nose begins. Any other questions?

How will you get everyone to conform to that?

[EPC WN]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

How will you get everyone to conform to that?

You can't. Free country and all. Just loose guidelines.

[martin35]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

How will you get everyone to conform to that?

Secretly they just want to because all people in a Democracy are of a like mind,,, ask anyone.

[Mebsuta]

Originally Posted by EPC WN

You can't. Free country and all. Just loose guidelines.

That's what I mean. Always get vague nice sounding stuff from Ron Paul.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

That's what I mean. Always get vague nice sounding stuff from Ron Paul.

Maybe we'll get somebody strict and mean enough to suit you.

Just like America was meant to be.

[Mebsuta]

I saw that Shlomo. Who's on deck? Maybe I can retire the side. It doesn't happen very often.

[EPC WN]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

I saw that Shlomo. Who's on deck? Maybe I can retire the side. It doesn't happen very often.

Ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttt ...you throw like a girl.
Let the home run derby commence!

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

I saw that Shlomo. Who's on deck? Maybe I can retire the side. It doesn't happen very often.

Even I have standards.

Even I.

[gunnut1]

Originally Posted by wkendwarrior2003

Sir, you have an odd notion of what a turn coat is to say the least. I take it you did in fact read the article? Do you really want more government provided security? Provided by the same government that sells guns to Mexican drug cartels and supports Al Qaeda over in Libya and Syria (and lies about it)?

BTW, I'm guessing he also breaks with the NRA on whether or not the NFA is constitutional--would that make him a traitor also? If so, traitor to whom?

Yep sure did.

[brunop]

Originally Posted by gunnut1

http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/...tions-schools/

So is the the much praised Ron Paul you guys have always drooled over. Seems to me he is a turn coat.

He said that the government shouldn't pay for it. That is not a turncoat - that is someone who doesn't want the federal government expanding their operations and/or extending their reach beyond what the Constitution (the law - remember?) calls for.

He also said that shrill calls for government intervention are not correct either.

Remember - it was the NRA that brought the '68 GCA. There are your turncoats.

[RG Coburn]

Originally Posted by shlomo

I would, in a heartbeat.

You wouldn't?

Yeah,so would I. Haven't flown since 9/11,primarily because of the invasive "security" measures.
Not willing to trade freedom for security just yet.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by martin35

Your right to attend any public function should transcend the right of others to expect a secure environment is what I'm hearing,,, they should take their chances for your convenience.
When my active fighting for your rights was done in 1953 it was the rest of you weak sisters who dropped the ball if all you did was complain and cast aspersions ,,, like now.

I haven't asked you in awhile so here goes again.

What were the details on the North Korean plans in the early 1950s to invade the USA and enslave us all? Surely they must have been plotting an invasion for you to have foght for our rights so far from home.

And it must have been really bad to have pried you away from fighting all of those operating inside the CONUS that were concocting plans to strip away rights.

[martin35]

Originally Posted by JasonB

I haven't asked you in awhile so here goes again.

What were the details on the North Korean plans in the early 1950s to invade the USA and enslave us all? Surely they must have been plotting an invasion for you to have foght for our rights so far from home.

And it must have been really bad to have pried you away from fighting all of those operating inside the CONUS that were concocting plans to strip away rights.

In 1950 the USA was the guarantor by treaty of South Korea's independence to that end there were US Army troops garrisoned there, they were all that stopped total Communist domination of the peninsula.

The fact you are so ignorant of your countries recent history is sad.
What is even more deplorable is the fact that you cannot see value in what others have done to secure your miserable existence,,, I consider you a self serving troll, a provocateur and useless to humanity,,, your questions and any future questions should now be considered fully answered as you requested.
Perhaps you could regale all here with your greatest contribution toward any man's freedoms.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by martin35

In 1950 the USA was the guarantor by treaty of South Korea's independence to that end there were US Army troops garrisoned there, they were all that stopped total Communist domination of the peninsula.

The fact you are so ignorant of your countries recent history is sad.
What is even more deplorable is the fact that you cannot see value in what others have done to secure your miserable existence,,, I consider you a self serving troll, a provocateur and useless to humanity,,, your questions and any future questions should now be considered fully answered as you requested.
Perhaps you could regale all here with your greatest contribution toward any man's freedoms.

None of the posters here indicate they reside in South Korea so once again what were the NORK plans on invading the USA when you told carguym14 you were fighting for his rights?

Want me to post what Marx stated were the characteristics of a communist again? Seems you fought for a country that adheres to those characteristics.

[the gman]

Originally Posted by gunnut1

http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/...tions-schools/

So is the the much praised Ron Paul you guys have always drooled over. Seems to me he is a turn coat.

Oh bollocks. Ron Paul never said anything that makes him a traitor or turncoat. The simple, plain and most effective answer to school violence is to allow or require some (or all if they so chose) of the teachers to be armed whenever they are at work. This doesn't require the Federal govt to do a damn thing except STFU and let the states take care of it.

Ever heard the phrase "A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." and this is what RP is railing against. Sure, lets trust the govt with more power...... The NRA exists to ensure it's own survival and they have screwed us all many times over.

In addition, a simple way of getting this country back to where it needs to be is eliminating much of the welfare handed out to the lazy and philandering douchebags.

And while I respect the service of martin, lets not kid ourselves that the guys who fought in any war since WW2 were doing so to save any rights for the citizens of the United States of America. Treaty obligations are something we NEVER should have gotten involved with ever and the Monroe doctrine should still be extant today. Anyone who legitimately threatens the safety and security of the US can easily be dealt with by sufficient use of SF or the ultimate sanction of a nuke or two. Stop trying to win friends and influence people; the US needs to be feared, not fuggin' liked by one and all.

And that's my message of peace and hope for the New Year; f*ck with us and we'll kill you ALL with a big fuggin' bomb from a long way away.....

[carguym14]

Originally Posted by Mebsuta

I wouldn't say that he turned coat. He criticized NRA on one side and Feinstein and them on the other, which is fine and I agree with a lot of what he says. However, he doesn't really offer an alternative to a govt that is determined to do something.

In my opinion, that's pretty much what you get with Ron Paul.

He says this: "Real change can happen only when we commit ourselves to rebuilding civil society in America, meaning a society based on family, religion, civic and social institutions, and peaceful cooperation through markets."

Well, how do you do that? I have no idea.

EPC had a good answer,but I'll add my .02.

Family values would be a good start-the last I heard around 40+% of babies are born to single mothers.Why reward negative behavior?The government is too big and needs to stay out of peoples lives.

No more rewarding stupidity/greed/corruption/etc/....succeed or fail on your own.Nothing foorced/mandated by government.Bring charity back.

This is futile anyway since there is no way any of it will happen.Government wants total control from cradle to grave.

There are people that want to be left alone,people that want to control everyone,and there are many that want to be controlled/taken care of;and they are now the majority.