The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > News & Political Discussion > RKBA & Legal

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 11, 2012, 18:26   #1
4markk
Military Observer
Silver Contributor
 
4markk's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31134
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 3,136
Huge win on concealed carry in Illinois! Harbinger of things to come?‏

A huge win for Illinois in the 7th Circuit! The last "no carry" state has fallen! Illinois has 180 days to get a concealed carry law in place (or they will become Vermont-carry)!


From the Chicago Sun-Times:

Big win for gun-rights groups: Federal appeals court tosses state ban on carrying concealed weapons

By Dave McKinney on December 11, 2012 11:21 AM

SPRINGFIELD - In a huge win for gun-rights groups, a federal appeals court in Chicago Tuesday tossed the state's ban on carrying concealed weapons and gave Illinois' Legislature 180 days to craft a law legalizing concealed carry.

"The debate is over. We won. And there will be a statewide carry law in 2013," said Todd Vandermyde, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association.

In a split opinion (see below), the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed a lower court ruling in two cases downstate that upheld the state's longstanding prohibition against carrying concealed weapons.

Illinois is the only state with an outright prohibition on concealed carry.

"We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home," Judge Richard Posner wrote in the court's majority opinion.

"The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside. The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense," he continued.

"Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basis for believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden," Posner wrote.

"The Supreme Court's interpretation of the Second Amendment therefore compels us to reverse the decisions in the two cases before us and remand them to their respective district courts for the entry of declarations of unconstitutionality and permanent injunctions," he continued.

"Nevertheless we order our mandate stayed for 180 days to allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public," Posner said.

Attorney General Lisa Madigan, who was defending the state's prohibition of concealed carry, did not have an immediate response to the ruling released Tuesday morning.

In a minority opinion, Judge Ann Williams wrote that Illinois is within its rights to ban weapons in "sensitive places" like government buildings, churches and universities in the name of safety.

"The Illinois legislature reasonably concluded that if people are allowed to carry guns in public, the number of guns carried in public will increase, and the risk of firearms-related injury or death in public will increase as well," Williams said. "And it is also common sense that the danger is a great one; firearms are lethal."

In 2011, gun-rights advocates lost a bid in the Illinois House to legalize concealed carry by a 65-32 vote. Seventy-one votes were necessary for passage.

The measure, sponsored by state Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Harrisburg), would have enabled Illinoisans to carry concealed weapons if they had a firearm owner's identification card and underwent a firearms education course.

Under the failed bill, permit holders could not have been a patient in a mental institution in the previous five years nor have any felony, violent misdemeanor or drug convictions in the previous 10 years.

Concealed weapons also wouldn't have been allowed under the plan at government buildings, courthouses, schools, sports arenas and stadiums, amusement parks, libraries or college campuses.

At the time of the vote, the Illinois State Police estimated that 325,000 people would taken advantage of a concealed-carry program, which was projected to raise $32 million annually for the state through license fees.
__________________
`
`
The difference between the possible and the impossible is only in the degree of a man's will. Chinese Proverb

“The worst thing about growing old is that other men stop seeing you as dangerous.” Act Of Valor

"A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends." Socrates
4markk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 11, 2012, 22:31   #2
jeffrey
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 2073
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,755
"At the time of the vote, the Illinois State Police estimated that 325,000 people would taken advantage of a concealed-carry program, which was projected to raise $32 million annually for the state through license fees."


$100 fugkin license fee to excercise a Constitutional right.
jeffrey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 11, 2012, 23:04   #3
D P Six
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 15219
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,110
What Constitution??
D P Six is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 12, 2012, 05:59   #4
bakerjw
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 22547
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 1,439
Conceal carry is legal in a lot of places; however, it is made to be extremely difficult to get a permit. The court said that they have to allow it, but they didn't state how easy that it had to be to get one. Madigan and the gang won't be pleased
__________________
We are quickly approaching the time for which the 2nd amendment was penned.
bakerjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12, 2012, 08:35   #5
4markk
Military Observer
Silver Contributor
 
4markk's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31134
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 3,136
I suspect they will do something like DC did and make it extremely hard and expensive. The challenges will continue to chip away at the nonsense.

Gun rights are winning on all fronts now. We need to keep up the pressure. SAF.org has done a tremendous job of defeating them in the anti's in the courts. We need to keep the ball rolling in the legislatures.
__________________
`
`
The difference between the possible and the impossible is only in the degree of a man's will. Chinese Proverb

“The worst thing about growing old is that other men stop seeing you as dangerous.” Act Of Valor

"A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends." Socrates
4markk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 12, 2012, 18:54   #6
djfin
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 62265
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: naperville
Posts: 161
[QUOTE=4markk;3487419]I suspect they will do something like DC did and make it extremely hard and expensive. The challenges will continue to chip away at the nonsense.

The problem the dems face is is that in 180 days we in Illinois will be able to carry without restriction if they do not pass a carry law. We have the votes to block any nonsense law that that the anti gun crowd tries to push on us. All we have to do is get close to the deadline and they will get very reasonable or face the prospect of unrestricted carry. Its about time.
djfin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 12, 2012, 22:03   #7
bakerjw
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 22547
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 1,439
Best advice? Move. I did several years ago and have never looked back. It is so nice to not have to show an FOID to buy ammunition or a gun. And even better to buy a handgun and walk out as soon as the NICS check passes.
__________________
We are quickly approaching the time for which the 2nd amendment was penned.
bakerjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13, 2012, 20:07   #8
Tiberius
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17633
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by djfin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4markk View Post
I suspect they will do something like DC did and make it extremely hard and expensive. The challenges will continue to chip away at the nonsense.
The problem the dems face is is that in 180 days we in Illinois will be able to carry without restriction if they do not pass a carry law. We have the votes to block any nonsense law that that the anti gun crowd tries to push on us. All we have to do is get close to the deadline and they will get very reasonable or face the prospect of unrestricted carry. Its about time.
Hope they do something about the stupid waiting period.
Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2012, 18:50   #9
ALL FAL
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 24447
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,573
By golly, I see we have some Americans waking up and Using the system by Voting and careful reading of new law proposals that either pass the litmus test for we the people or are rejected because the agenda is not true to our Gun rights.
ALL FAL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2012, 08:09   #10
bobk538447
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 11106
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 68
Supreme Court fight looms over right to carry a gun

It may move to the Supreme Court:

http://news.yahoo.com/high-court-fig...100107234.html
bobk538447 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2012, 19:16   #11
Tiberius
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17633
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobk538447 View Post

The issue will probably ultimately end up there....but I'm not sure that Madigan will appeal. Gun Control is a regional issue in IL, Downstate Democrats whose constituents hunt and shoot are begging her to let it drop. I suspect she is getting some pressure from Deep Blue "may issue" states not to take it to SCOTUS and risk their ability to deny CCW to their enemies. Madigan is ambitious to be governor, inter-party fights over gun control don't help her.
Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2012, 09:09   #12
Abominog
Old Fart
Gold Contributor
 
Abominog's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 372
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Posts: 7,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by djfin View Post
[The problem the dems face is is that in 180 days we in Illinois will be able to carry without restriction if they do not pass a carry law. .
That right exists right now.

The 180 days is hocus pocus. The court struck the law down, saying it is unconstitutional, and thereby illegal. Thus, no such anti-carry law is now legally on the books.

What are they going to do, prosecute you under a law that is illegal? And then it will go to court, and the court, 180 days or not, will have to rule that the law under which you prosecuted is illegal and throw it out.

The court gave illiniois 180 days to write a new law. They can't uphold for 180 an illegal law they just overturned; and as noted, even if they thought they did, they'd have to deny a prosecution based on said illegal law.
__________________
They will live a long time, these men of the South Pacific. They, like their victories, will be remembered as long as our generation lives. Longer and longer shadows will obscure them, until their Guadalcanal sounds distant on the ear like Shiloh and Valley Forge. --- Michener, Tales of the South Pacific

Tempus Edax Rerum
Abominog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2012, 18:16   #13
djfin
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 62265
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: naperville
Posts: 161
Hocus pocus

Not correct. The Court stayed the order for 180 days. That means the law is still valid during the stay. When the stay expires we will be able to carry without restricition unless a new law is passed
djfin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2012, 18:21   #14
djfin
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 62265
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: naperville
Posts: 161
?

What are they going to do, prosecute you under a law that is illegal? And then it will go to court, and the court, 180 days or not, will have to rule that the law under which you prosecuted is illegal and throw it out

You have never been to Illinois have you. The Chicago dems are threatening to ignore the ruling and to also pass new laws that they admit will not stand up in court just to delay following the ruling
djfin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2012, 21:11   #15
Tiberius
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 17633
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by djfin View Post
You have never been to Illinois have you. The Chicago dems are threatening to ignore the ruling and to also pass new laws that they admit will not stand up in court just to delay following the ruling
While that is true, it isn't relevant to the fact that your first post is correct...the laws on UUW remains in force until the stay expires.
Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19, 2012, 15:13   #16
Abominog
Old Fart
Gold Contributor
 
Abominog's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 372
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Posts: 7,490
A law that is unconstitutional does NOT get a "stay"- does not become constitutional- for 180 days. Court can say what it wants, but even the same court cannot trump its declaration that a law is unconsititional.
__________________
They will live a long time, these men of the South Pacific. They, like their victories, will be remembered as long as our generation lives. Longer and longer shadows will obscure them, until their Guadalcanal sounds distant on the ear like Shiloh and Valley Forge. --- Michener, Tales of the South Pacific

Tempus Edax Rerum
Abominog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 19, 2012, 15:48   #17
jaykden
Moderator
Resident Alaskan
 
jaykden's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 3800
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: sitka, ak
Posts: 4,314
well, if you are going to be carrying in illinois, you better have a few lawyers on speed dial
__________________
In a family of fudds, i'm the black sheep of the family...... EBR black, that is...
jaykden is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2012 The FAL Files