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Old December 10, 2012, 11:37   #1
homelandprotector
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Build My AR........

So I have been thinking of building a group of AR rifles for my 3 Boys and myself.....I like to find individual rifle parts on closeout or on sale for cheap, it takes patience but it's worth the wait. It is also fun scouring the internet for cheap, quality parts.

My goal is to build 4 Gas piston AR's in a different caliber then 223......I'm thinking 6.8 or????? maybe 243., 260, or 6.5 Grindel (6.5 my favorite), it seems the 6.5 Grindel is probably THE best all around performer of any bullet.

So if any of you guys have done this venture, fill me in on links or manufacturers that you would recomend, I do care about quality but also believe you can have it for a good price.

This modular Colt is the shit >> http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=17186 308./ 223. This would be the best route if money was not an object.......Maybe if I find a couple pounds of GOLD this week while prospecting

Good ideas for complete guns >> http://cdn2.cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=27639

Here's the Colt LE901-16S modular.......Isn't it beautiful........

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Old December 10, 2012, 12:20   #2
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I may be reading it wrong, but are you deciding wither to build rifles on AR 10 size receivers vs an AR 15 receiver?

.243 Winchester? and .260 Rem?

The 6.5 Grendell would be my alternate choice for the AR 15 size. Maybe because I already have about 800 .264" bullets on hand for a 6.5X55.

I have developed a fondness for the .264" bore and think a .260 Rem. AR would kick butt as a "do all" rifle.


PSA has some great deals, but like most suppliers these days, "out of stock" is common on a lot of items.

It's going to be a challenge to build ARs until the ruckus dies down.

Keep us informed, sound like a fun project.
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Old December 10, 2012, 12:43   #3
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I have not decided on the caliber........I do like the 6.5, but the modular idea of a 223./308. gun is very nice.

It seems that the 6.5 Grindel has all the qualities of 223. and 308.
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Old December 10, 2012, 13:20   #4
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Every time I start thinking of making an "accurized" AR I come back to the 6.5 Grendell. Some day....
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Old December 10, 2012, 14:43   #5
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If you want to save money on the build, forget the "piston" upper idea. It's more money for no gain in performance.

For 5.56 size lowers, check Widners. They have LRB lower for less than $90 each and they are made correctly. Better grab'em quick though! If I had the dough, I'd be placing an order myself
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8913

Why build a rifle on the cheap to shoot expensive ammo? What, in a practical sense, will the 6.8 do the 5.56 won't? Load the 5.56 with premium ammo and it performs well on deer and hogs. Buy the cheap blasting ammo for practice and you will make up for the extra money spent on the premium ammo and get to shoot more.

You might be better off with a free float tube with only a top rail. They are less expensive, lighter and rail sections can be added as needed. Just what are you going to do with all the rail estate found on a quad rail anyway?

Sounds like a fun project. If I had the money, I'd buy two lowers for my sons myself. Keep us updated on this project!
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Old December 10, 2012, 17:06   #6
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One of the best value in parts I've found is at Palmetto State Armory. As far as caliber goes, have you looked at the 300Blackout? Really a cool new round. So far I've got one internally suppressed (built on a M1S kit), a 16 inch sporter (kit from the afore mentioned PSA), and currently gathering parts for an 8inch SBR.

Good luck with your builds.
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Old December 10, 2012, 17:33   #7
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Would not waste my time to build a gas piston AR in anything but 5.56.
Nothing wrong with the direct impingment system,millions of rounds have gone through these.

My vote

http://www.alexanderarms.com/index.p...0-beowulf.html

6.5 Grendel

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/
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Old December 10, 2012, 17:38   #8
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You can buy both a COMPLETE DPMS LR-308 and a COMPLETE Smith and Wesson M&P 15 for what you will pay for that Colt.

Moreover, Colt won't even let you have the adapter block for the 901 now.

...and the Colt comes with the SAME SHITTY TRIGGER that you would get in Bubba's cheapest gun-show parts build.
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Old December 10, 2012, 19:41   #9
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Ferget the piston, do DI and build them in 6.5 or .300BLK..
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Old December 10, 2012, 20:03   #10
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Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post
Ferget the piston, do DI and build them in 6.5 or .300BLK..
Yep, I'm leaning the same way.
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Old December 10, 2012, 23:22   #11
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Ferget the piston, do DI and build them in 6.5 or .300BLK..
+1
Except for the 6.5 part.
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Old December 10, 2012, 23:46   #12
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That Slide fire buttstock Make semi auto about as fast as full auto.

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Old December 12, 2012, 13:13   #13
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There might not be any true gain in performance realized by using a piston, but there sure as hell is a tremendous gain when it comes to cleaning them!

I have DI and piston setups. When I clean them is when I truly appreciate the piston rifles. I have one LWRC and one using the Adams Arms piston. The LWRC has never failed or broken a part. The AA piston had the gas cup mushroom for some reason and bind up the piston. How did it mushroom out of round? Who knows? All that I know is that AA was good about replacing it.

I would personally never spend the money again on an LWRC and the only reason I did was because George Joy (The Gman) worked there at the time and I got a good price on it. The AA is reasonably priced, but my confidence is a little shaken in it because of the odd problem that I had with mine which rendered my rifle into a single shot. It is my understanding that a number of builders use AA though (S&W, Huldra, and others) in their piston rifles.

If money is no object and you want the ability to clean your rifles in a greatly reduced time, then sure go get a quality piston rifle. Otherwise, buy a DI and put the savings into optics, ammo, or mags.
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Old December 12, 2012, 16:43   #14
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sportmansguide has some very cheap AR15 barrels in 556 and 7.62x39

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=938889

$89 for members

unknown maker and quality

These are completely stripped, you'll have to get all the other parts
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Old December 12, 2012, 19:18   #15
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+1
Except for the 6.5 part.
I was trying to be nice and give the 6.5 honorable mention...

I've been pretty clear with what I think is the ultimate .300BLK..
YES, I'm biased BUT I did at least give each and every component due consideration and did not base my component choices on hearsay or Internet ninja chatter.. "IF" I was to build another .300BLK I don't know that I would do anything different (think I will be installing a Geissele SSA trigger though)??

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329204
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Old December 12, 2012, 19:59   #16
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Hey Mike, your private message storage is full gotta clear that
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Old December 12, 2012, 21:04   #17
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Quote:
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There might not be any true gain in performance realized by using a piston, but there sure as hell is a tremendous gain when it comes to cleaning them!...
My so-called "DI" AR with it's piston in the carrier is one of the easiest rifles I've ever had to clean. Much easier than a FAL which has it's piston in the gas block. Moving the piston to the gas block means moving the crud to the gas block. Still has to be cleaned.

What's so hard about cleaning an AR?
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Old December 12, 2012, 21:21   #18
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Carbon and crud build up on the DI bolt and the gas key. I've had to deal with none of that on my piston rifles. I also have seen nothing anywhere on the piston or gas block that took more than a wipedown to clean and literally no crud or residue of any sort on the piston rifle bolts.
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Old December 12, 2012, 21:33   #19
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Hey Mike, your private message storage is full gotta clear that
Should be GTG now..
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Old December 12, 2012, 21:42   #20
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Carbon and crud build up on the DI bolt and the gas key. I've had to deal with none of that on my piston rifles. I also have seen nothing anywhere on the piston or gas block that took more than a wipedown to clean and literally no crud or residue of any sort on the piston rifle bolts.
Interesting. The BCG of my carbine never needs more that a wipe down and I shoot it quite a bit, including with the 22 rimfire adapter. It runs very reliably unless I use underpowered steel cased ammo from a GI mag
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Old December 12, 2012, 21:46   #21
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Interesting. The BCG of my carbine never needs more that a wipe down and I shoot it quite a bit, including with the 22 rimfire adapter. It runs very reliably unless I use underpowered steel cased ammo from a GI mag
The "alleged" benefits of Piston guns are oft touted..
Got a mess of AR's, & I shoot my guns a lot too and have never once had a failure I could attribute to my guns being dirty..
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Old December 13, 2012, 09:19   #22
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Mike, Mist,

I know that my post is not being referred to as touting reliability of one over the other, because I didn't mention that one way or another. So, you must be talking about someone else's post.

Back to my posts, I stand firm on my assertion that a piston is easier to clean than a DI Rifle. I'll go so far as to say "much easier". I would happily join anyone at a range and shoot at least 500 rounds each through a DI rifle next to a piston rifle. Then we could pop out the BCGs and compare the two. I'm confident of which will be easier to clean. As for cleaning the piston action itself, I don't know what the sample group is for any assertion that there is some type of crud buildup around either a LWRC piston rifle's gas block or the one on an AA set up or any other piston rifle for that matter. The dirt is mostly expelled into the air and what isn't gets easily wiped off, just like the bolt. Let's put it this way, I have never seen anyone have to use a dental pick to scrape off carbon on anything related to a piston rifle. However, there are products out there designed just specifically for scraping carbon off of DI bolts.

Things like this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/129...ol-ar-15-steel

or,

http://www.sinclairintl.com/gun-clea...prod35018.aspx

Keep in mind that I did recommend to the OP that unless he had the money to spend for the convenience of easier cleaning, that he should just buy a DI rifle.
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Old December 13, 2012, 14:26   #23
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6.5 Grendel or maybe the .300 in the gas impingement version and then teach everybody how to clean and maintain them ?

The military has done a pretty good job getting along with the standard gas system for a few decades now and teaching even their least capable members how to shoot and maintain them in the process.



At least one spare 5.56 top end would provide some much, much less expensive practice capability.
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Old December 13, 2012, 15:50   #24
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Mike, Mist,

I know that my post is not being referred to as touting reliability of one over the other, because I didn't mention that one way or another. So, you must be talking about someone else's post.

Back to my posts, I stand firm on my assertion that a piston is easier to clean than a DI Rifle. I'll go so far as to say "much easier". I would happily join anyone at a range and shoot at least 500 rounds each through a DI rifle next to a piston rifle. Then we could pop out the BCGs and compare the two. I'm confident of which will be easier to clean. As for cleaning the piston action itself, I don't know what the sample group is for any assertion that there is some type of crud buildup around either a LWRC piston rifle's gas block or the one on an AA set up or any other piston rifle for that matter. The dirt is mostly expelled into the air and what isn't gets easily wiped off, just like the bolt. Let's put it this way, I have never seen anyone have to use a dental pick to scrape off carbon on anything related to a piston rifle. However, there are products out there designed just specifically for scraping carbon off of DI bolts.

Things like this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/129...ol-ar-15-steel

or,

http://www.sinclairintl.com/gun-clea...prod35018.aspx

Keep in mind that I did recommend to the OP that unless he had the money to spend for the convenience of easier cleaning, that he should just buy a DI rifle.
Your right, my comments where not directed at you..
This topic has almost become the new 9 vs 45 debate that will most likely carry on until the end of time.
I never said that the Piston gun is bad or that it offers no advantages but I do suspect that for "most" peeps any advantage is merely fluff..

"IF" ease of cleaning is the biggest advantage then for most I see no real advantage at all since real life extended cleaning intervals caused by heavy use and or sustained heavy fire is something most will never see..

I like piston guns and was fortunate to fire a bunch of LWRC stuff a few years ago.. I would buy a piston gun if it possessed features that a DI gun does not but aside from added cost and ease of cleaning I don't know of any real significant advantage?
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Old December 13, 2012, 20:06   #25
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Lawdog, I don't discount your experiences. I can't, I wasn't there!

All I wanted to point out is that my AR is easy to wipe clean and is reliable without having to scrape away carbon. Yes, there will be residue after 500 rounds but it's not difficult to clean. In fact, if I wanted to be real lazy, I'd just squirt some oil in the action and keep shooting!

I am not a big fan of relocating the AR piston to the gas block but that's because I don't see any benefit, not because I think it's junk
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Old December 14, 2012, 11:44   #26
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If you're dead set on a gas piston AR, then go for it, but I'm of the opinion that Gene Stoner was a pretty clever dude.

Regarding caliber, the Grendel is a great round. It has more oomph that the 223, does great at longish range, and kicks less than a 308-class AR. My Grendel AR15 is less tiring to shoot than my 6.5 Creedmoor AR10-type. For Grendel guns, I've read that J&T does a quality gun at a reasonable price.

Although I don't have one, the 6.8 is also a very popular alternative to the 223.

Dyno mentioned the 300 Blackout, and although it doesn't have the long range performance of the Grendel, it's damned fun to shoot. Ammo, while not as inexpensive as 223 or 7.62x39, is less expensive than the Grendel and the 6.8. Supposedly, steel case is in the works. Besides the fun factor, the 300 takes only a barrel change to shoot. Everything else, including mags and bolt, is the same as the 223. I really enjoy shooting my 300 at steel plates.

7.62x39 is also an option, though the mag choices are limited. I had a factory Armalite in 7.62x39 that was a blast to shoot (though I sold mine to finance a 300 Blackout.) It's inexpensive to shoot and certainly serviceable as a deer or hog gun to reasonable distances.

You mentioned .243 and .260. In an AR10-type gun it'll be cheaper to shoot 308 and essentially just as effective to distances of several hundred yards, though the smaller calibers, depending on the pill, do have an advantage in drift and drop at extended ranges. AR10 types are more expensive, and there isn't the parts commonality that the AR15s share.

All that said, 223 is cheap to shoot, ubiquitous, and is certainly a serviceable round, if not as "exciting" as the aforementioned rounds.
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Old December 14, 2012, 16:03   #27
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Good points Scott, I too have heard the 6.5 Grendel is a great L/R cartridge.
My Bud just built one and he's happy as a clam with it, I've shot the 6.8 and it has merit as well..

One of the big considerations for me when doing the .300BLK however is it's versatility. While it might not be ideal at the longer ranges it is still effective.
But what it lacks in the distance aspect it makes up with bullet weight options. ONE gun and the ability to shoot bullets from 110-220 grains makes it pretty damn versatile.. Since I've got a but-load of rifles in .308 (One being my OBR)I don't need nor want another DISTANCE rifle anyway. If I want to really reach out I've got that base covered..

Another big plus for the .300BLK is it's a SNAP to reload for.. There is a ton of great data out there as well as good factory fodder options. Making brass is a PITA BUT there are places like Brads Warehouse that convert your brass for you at a reasonable price. IMHO this is/was the only real hangup about loading the BLK and now it's nothing but a minor inconvenience. I've got many thousands of .223 brass and as soon as I get a chance I'm gonna send off 1K and see what get back..

You also mention that the .300BLK is FUN and I have to agree there 100%.
Don't know what it is about it, might be that it's just different? Whatever it is though FUN is the right word and I can hardly wait till I get my can for it.. Sending then big honking bullets out without the noise will surely bring a smile..

I just hit Brads site and need to make a correction. Brads is NO LONGER converting brass, seems it got to much demand. He has another person listed that IS doing the conversion for $.08 ea + return shipping.
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Old December 15, 2012, 16:31   #28
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Grindel.........6.8? Both equally bad ass,

not sure which one would make bad guys more dead,
I think the Grindel would kill deader then dead.....or super dead.



http://www.6mmbr.com/65grendel.html

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Old December 16, 2012, 00:57   #29
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If your rifles are for serious use, don't fook around. Get a BCM, Daniel Defense or LMT. It sounds like a 5.56 Noveske is out of your price range--as it is mine.

If you still want to build... I am very fond of 14.5" carbines with permanent muzzle devices. That 1.5" does make a difference to me in transition from target to target and indoor/in-vehicle length. The BCE compensators are great--and I hear-tell the Spike's DynaComp copycat does as good or better at less than half the price. I have Daniel Defense 12.0 Lite rails on my 14.5s. Solid, easily checked for tightness, lightweight, puts the front sight out farther, too. This coming from a LaRue hometown guy. I wish my 14.5s were pencil barrels.

The LMT 2-stage trigger upgrade is worth every penny on a serious use rifle. I have a Geissele Super Dynamic 3Gun in one of my ARs; I LOVE the flat G trigger, and they're great for speed and 480yd shots. But the LMT is a bullseye for a serious use rifle. Not as light as the G, smooth take-up and very positive, clean 2nd stage. I intend to put the LMT 2s in my serious guns, move the Geisseles to long range guns.

A 6.5 Grendel upper sounds great, but I would rather spend my time and money (reloading) on a more substantial caliber with a wider range of bullets.
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Old December 24, 2012, 12:25   #30
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A 6.5 Grendel upper sounds great, but I would rather spend my time and money (reloading) on a more substantial caliber with a wider range of bullets.
Like 308.?

Now I'm back to 308. AR's I mean hell, the bullet choice it huge and for a hunting/ survival gun.....nothing better then 308.

Instead of building an AR I'm considering this > http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342615 I can buy these new at Cabelas for around $1000.
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Old December 24, 2012, 12:52   #31
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FNAR is interesting. I wasn't pleased with the design for long-term use. It reminded me of the Rem 742 and such models. Not a hard-fighting gun, but fine for infrequent use. Which might be all some need it for.

One of the CMMG Mk3 rifles wouldn't cost a whole lot more. Well, at least two weeks ago it wouldn't have. You gain a lot more versatility with the CMMG.

If you want accuracy in a semi-auto 7.62, look at the LMT MWS. The only drawbacks are weight (over 9lbs empty) and it is 2.5x the price of an FNAR. However, it is military grade and very accurate. I think it's Trident1982 or something that has vids of 1000yd milk jug shots with the 16" barrel. Word is the Brits have a 1300yd kill with the 16" MWS. They offer 16" chrome lined barrels, 16" stainless 5R barrels up to 20" 5R barrels. Excellent, repeatable accuracy.

LMT is furnishing them to the British military with great success. The Brits use a big ass ACOG for whatever reason.

The second gen (current) MWS rifles are forged lowers and forged, monolithic uppers. The newest model features a slick handguard upon which you bolt rail sections as needed.

These guys will mod regular AR10 type barrels to work with an MWS:
https://dbmg-llc.3dcartstores.com/MW...sion_p_33.html

Can you guess which rifle I'm saving for? ;-)

A LaRue OBR would be a similar value to the MWS at 20" lengths (no factory 20" 5R MWS option). And the OBR already features a 20MOA rail built in. But I do like the barrel change capabilities. Buy it with a long-life 16" chrome, have a 20" 5R barrel/bolt for longer work.

Kind of weird, I thought my buddies were a bit crazy for buying an OBR--that's a lot of money for me. And here I am saving for an MWS...
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Old December 24, 2012, 14:10   #32
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Looks like the Brits are using the MWS >> http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/548822_.html scroll down a bit in the thread.

Over $3000. by the time Uncle Sam gets his cut > http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=2028 bit VERY nice.

Lust worthy Noveske...... The desert tan with the matching scope is awesome.

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Last edited by homelandprotector; December 25, 2012 at 01:07.
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Old December 24, 2012, 16:02   #33
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Pricing depends on the included barrel; chrome-lined or stainless. Chrome is 2.5x the cost of an FNAR. $2500 for the standard 16" chrome.

About $2710 shipped for the newest small diameter handguard + stainless 16".

18" available sometimes, 20" factory I have never seen available.

This has been standard pricing this winter from a few of big online shops. Many other retailers will and do charge you more. Rainier has some decent pricing on some things, but I don't buy my LMT stuff from them.

The most expensive barrel, the 20" 5R, runs $600-700. They are sporadically available, blackened or natural stainless appearance.
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Old December 24, 2012, 16:47   #34
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Are we building OR buying a rifle?

If'n your BUYING one then here is my vote:
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...ifle-18-barrel


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Old December 25, 2012, 01:03   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post
Are we building OR buying a rifle?

If'n your BUYING one then here is my vote:
Hey Mike, I'm still going back and forth a bit on weather to build or buy a factory guns........My goal is to arm my 3 boys and myself with identical rifles before the apocalyptic melt down of society. (probably won't happen....Fun prepping though). I don't really want to drop 12 grand on 4 rifles...... $1000. a piece is a good goal, that's why I like the FNAR 308., it's a sweet rifle. but the AR design just seams easier to deal with.

It seems that I wouldn't save a whole lot of money by piecing together rifles my self and building them myself, I've built plenty of Fals and they all work fine. I just want something super accurate and reliable (that's all anyone wants from a gun).

I have determined that 308. is the best bet though......DUH! who am I kidding..... boutique rounds such as the 6.5 grendel are sporty and sound cool, but 308. beats every one of those in every category , hands down.

Soooo, I will put on my internent search hat and find THE CHEAPEST (cheap doesn't always mean crappy) parts to build a high quality AR 10 in 308. I'm lookin for close out sales, and special clearance sales for bits and pieces. I think 18" barrel is the perfect length.

These guys got the right ideas >> http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/548822_.html

I really like your 300. Black out and your 458. hammer, great projects for me down the road..... Ya think I would just build the 4 FAL kits I have laying in my tool box though... Yeah thats it, build the Fals and get AR's for the boys. Then we'll sell a car or something and stock up on ammo.

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Last edited by homelandprotector; December 25, 2012 at 02:40.
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Old December 25, 2012, 01:34   #36
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Then comes along the Vltor M1a and everything goes out the window

Who are we kiddin? M1a vs AR10? that's a whole other study.

Don't you dare call it a PLATFORM!!

http://www.desertwarriorproducts.com/vltor_stock.html



It's sorta like this........

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Old December 25, 2012, 02:13   #37
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I think I found my new avatar......




Or the Troy M1A.........



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Old December 25, 2012, 08:16   #38
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It seems that I wouldn't save a whole lot of money by piecing together rifles my self and building them myself,

I don't know if that has ever really been the case, particularly if the parts were bought new and of the same quality level as factory built rifles AND trying to meet a time frame. Buying take off parts (used or new) can definitely lower the cost(but will take time), but for a long time builidng it yourself would allow for configurations you really couldn't buy elsewhere(primarily lightweight barrels sans proprietary take down pins/fire control groups) which really isn't an issue now.
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Old December 25, 2012, 08:39   #39
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If you want AR style .308 at an affordable price check out the CMMG Mk3 I mentioned. Reviews are surprisingly good. Very affordable, but it will be awhile before prices come down again.
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Old December 25, 2012, 12:57   #40
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One more suggestion - search for MA-TEN or MATEN keywords. It stands for Mega Arms (AR-) TEN. They were making a lot of upper/lower receivers/kits.
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Old December 26, 2012, 19:32   #41
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Well I hope u got all your parts.

I' eve been looking for a barrel but no luck.
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Old December 29, 2012, 14:20   #42
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Well I hope u got all your parts.

I' eve been looking for a barrel but no luck.
Found a few............

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/219...ss-steel-black

http://www.parts4ar15.com/ar-15_acce...r_Barrels.html

Probably the best one >> http://www.parts4ar15.com/ar-15_acce...8-BL-SASS.html

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/

Best price >> http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod54801.aspx
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Old December 31, 2012, 22:21   #43
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What about Rainier Arms, has that been mentioned? They have a barrel I believe called select, more affordable than the Match and Supermatch barrels they carry. They are made at the same factory as HK. I'm helping my buddy build his .308 and we found this barrel. I love Rainier for builds but it's not cheap but their proprietary products are less expensive. They are sold out of the select barrel at the moment. It's not the best time to build a rifle. Let the madness settle down first.
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