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Old December 09, 2012, 21:55   #51
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Jason your only here to make trouble, you've proven it time and time again. Your posts for the most part are BS intended to do nothing but stir shit.
Again I ask WHY are you even here? Seems your mental ability and constant attempts to create conflict would be MUCH more suited for ARF or GROCK talk. In fact maybe an AIRSOFT or PAINTBALL forum would be a better fit for you?

I never "assaulted" you, in fact with the exception of my reply to your comments RE: The Collet my posts where not directed at you at all especially knowing your inability to carry on rational discussion..

I posted that I don't like "most" LEE products because I have found them to be cheaply made for the most part.. Personally while I don't have a lot of $$ I also don't buy solely based on price and I used an analogy I've used MANY times before..
I like GOOD QUALITY tools, that goes way beyond my reloading and carries into both my personal and professional life. Some are content with RYOBI, TROT BUILT, & LEE.. I prefer STIHL, & REDDING..

You've called me an "ANTI GUNNER" several times on this thread and others.
Much as I'd love to offer you the opportunity to say it to my face I'll not lower myself to your childish levels. I assure you an ANTI gunner I'm NOT, this life, this hobby, this passion is part of almost every aspect of my life and has been almost all my life. I enjoy it and I protect. You on the other hand are nothing but an attention seeking fucktard..

So howzabout you just take your your ass to another forum, MAYBE there you can get the attention you so desperately seek/want/need?
You don't rub nor grate me none son, you aint nuthin but a gnat..
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Old December 09, 2012, 21:59   #52
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Originally Posted by Arby View Post
Did he actually bitch slap you??

That would be rather difficult online wouldn't it? And I never indicated he had.


According to Haney, asking the question:

"So if Lee dies lack precision, why make them the last step in the loading process with the factory crimp die? Sounds like that would be equivalent to buying the finest match barrel then crowning it free hand by shoving the tang on a file in and giving it a few twists."


in person would have the following outcome:

"Go find you some face to face interactions and see just how fast somebody applies a bitch slap to you."


it can be assumed Dynomike would just rudely insult the person asking, but others(Haney has not indicated he is among the "somebody" referenced) would resort to physical violence...according to Haney.
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Old December 09, 2012, 22:00   #53
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Like the benches and comments on reloadin' guys... now for the other comments.

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Old December 09, 2012, 22:03   #54
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Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post

Don't own and prob never will own a die set from LEE..
Then how do you know they are inferior?
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Old December 09, 2012, 22:08   #55
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Jason your only here to make trouble, you've proven it time and time again. Your posts for the most part are BS intended to do nothing but stir shit.

You are free to have your opinion. Why am I not free to have mine?


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Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post
Again I ask WHY are you even here? Seems your mental ability and constant attempts to create conflict would be MUCH more suited for ARF or GROCK talk. In fact maybe an AIRSOFT or PAINTBALL forum would be a better fit for you?

Not in to airsoft or paintball. Why would you recommend I do something I am not in to?

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I never "assaulted" you,

I never claimed you did so not sure where that is coming from.


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Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post
in fact with the exception of my reply to your comments RE: The Collet my posts where not directed at you at all especially knowing your inability to carry on rational discussion..
So why did you just have to reply to my question?


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Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post
I posted that I don't like "most" LEE products because I have found them to be cheaply made for the most part.. Personally while I don't have a lot of $$ I also don't buy solely based on price and I used an analogy I've used MANY times before..
I like GOOD QUALITY tools, that goes way beyond my reloading and carries into both my personal and professional life. Some are content with RYOBI, TROT BUILT, & LEE.. I prefer STIHL, & REDDING..

Good for you.

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Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post
You've called me an "ANTI GUNNER" several times on this thread and others.
Much as I'd love to offer you the opportunity to say it to my face I'll not lower myself to your childish levels. I assure you an ANTI gunner I'm NOT, this life, this hobby, this passion is part of almost every aspect of my life and has been almost all my life. I enjoy it and I protect. You on the other hand are nothing but an attention seeking fucktard..
You sing the praises of an anti-gunner (Ruger) frequently. I don't.


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So howzabout you just take your your ass to another forum, MAYBE there you can get the attention you so desperately seek/want/need?
You don't rub nor grate me none son, you aint nuthin but a gnat..
You sure are spending a lot of time with the name calling if any of the rest of that is true.
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Old December 09, 2012, 22:12   #56
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Then how do you know they are inferior?
Aint gotta own sumpin to use it Mebs..
I've been around a few reloading benches..

I really aint tryin to bust on LEE, I'm well aware that everyone has their own opinion and experiences.. I'm not saying they (LEE) won't/don't work for that's obviously not the case..

My posts are intended to share my own opinions and of course everyone has the right to disagree, that of course goes w/out saying..
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Old December 09, 2012, 23:10   #57
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This is all very confusing, Jason.
You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
So if I ask in person why someone why they would use a product from a company they indicate as being substandard I should expect to be assaulted?
Then I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby View Post
Not at all. I don't think that anyone assaulted you.
Then you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
So you are calling Haney a liar? He said it after all:
"Go find you some face to face interactions and see just how fast somebody applies a bitch slap to you."
Then I asked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby View Post
Did he actually bitch slap you??
And you responded:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
That would be rather difficult online wouldn't it? And I never indicated he had.
I don't think that anyone assaulted you, and I am not calling L Haney a liar, or you, either, of course. I think that what L Haney said was a postulation of a hypothetical. He was not assaulting you, or threatening you with assault. Admittedly, he did use your own illogic to take you down a peg or two, but so did Jefferey and Dyno.

Good luck with all of this.
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Old December 09, 2012, 23:17   #58
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Right, the 2 step maybe, but you ain't gonna Tango!
Okay, how about the Clinch Mountain backstep?
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Old December 09, 2012, 23:30   #59
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Okay, how about the Clinch Mountain backstep?
A la Ralph Stanley, or David Lindley?
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Old December 09, 2012, 23:33   #60
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^ In the tradition.
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Old December 09, 2012, 23:35   #61
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^ In the tradition.
That could be with either one, given how long ago each recorded.
Both great, though!
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Old December 10, 2012, 00:20   #62
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Surely any of the other companies can ream an opening to apply the crimp better than Lee can rig up felxible collet fingers.
Ream an opening? In what? The die? The brass?
Bottome line is Lee is 90% junk. Other companys probably don't really care to make a crimp die due to the fact it's a relatively small market for auto rifle reloaders(basically what the crimps for)
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Old December 10, 2012, 01:50   #63
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I am making 5.56 on my inferior Lee handpress with inferior Lee die AS WE SPEAK. I'm not afraid.

I have RCBS Rock Chucker but I like using the Lee hand press. You can use it anywhere and you don't have to be in front of a dum bench. Rock Chucker is good for the collet puller now.

Last edited by Mebsuta; December 10, 2012 at 04:31.
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Old December 10, 2012, 05:28   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby View Post
This is all very confusing, Jason.
You said:

Then I said:

Then you said:

Then I asked:

And you responded:

I don't think that anyone assaulted you, and I am not calling L Haney a liar, or you, either, of course. I think that what L Haney said was a postulation of a hypothetical. He was not assaulting you, or threatening you with assault. Admittedly, he did use your own illogic to take you down a peg or two, but so did Jefferey and Dyno.

Good luck with all of this.

So when/where did I ask Haney or Dynomike the question on the dies in person?
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Old December 10, 2012, 05:29   #65
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Ream an opening? In what? The die? The brass?
Bottome line is Lee is 90% junk. Other companys probably don't really care to make a crimp die due to the fact it's a relatively small market for auto rifle reloaders(basically what the crimps for)
No other companies make dies that crimp huh? Interesting considering most list that in their promos and instructions on certain dies.

Last edited by JasonB; December 10, 2012 at 06:57.
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Old December 10, 2012, 19:16   #66
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Okay, how about the Clinch Mountain backstep?
Is that in the same Mtn range as Brokeback mountin' ?
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Old December 10, 2012, 19:56   #67
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Clinch Mountain is different. No one will tell you how to get there, but you will know it when you see it.
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Old December 10, 2012, 20:29   #68
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No other companies make dies that crimp huh? Interesting considering most list that in their promos and instructions on certain dies.
Please educate yourself on what the Lee "factory crimp die" is. As has been stated, no other company makes anything like this die. I also do not care for Lee equipment but the factory crimp die is the only way to go if one is loading bullets with a canelure and one wants to crimp the boolit.

MOO of course.
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Old December 10, 2012, 21:17   #69
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Please educate yourself on what the Lee "factory crimp die" is. As has been stated, no other company makes anything like this die. I also do not care for Lee equipment but the factory crimp die is the only way to go if one is loading bullets with a canelure and one wants to crimp the boolit.

MOO of course.
I have several for rifle and pistol and am well aware how it works:

From me earlier:

"Surely any of the other companies can ream an opening to apply the crimp better than Lee can rig up flexible collet fingers."

Lee sucks so any one else should be able to make their crimpers(which, interestingly enough, Jeffery claims does not exist in defiance to product ads & instructions) work better. Right? Besides, most people claim crimping screws up accuracy(and that would have to go double with Lee crimpers) so still not seeing why one would go to the trouble of using better equipment just to screw it all up at the end with inferior crap.
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Old December 10, 2012, 22:40   #70
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Although neck tension helps with accuracy I do not use it for this. I use it to make sure there is adequate neck tension for use in auto loaders.
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Old December 11, 2012, 00:44   #71
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The thinking is that Lee is for n00bs, but you can't be an operator without the crimp, yet Lee is the only one who makes that kind of crimping tool (not roll crimp), so operators are forced to use Lee, even tho they are teh n00bzorZ.
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Old December 11, 2012, 01:05   #72
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...Lee is the only one who makes that kind of crimping tool (not roll crimp), so operators are forced to use Lee, even tho they are teh n00bzorZ.
You, sir, have been to the mountain and have seen the light and heard the truth, even if it should be re-interpreted in G-Modal Tuning.

Lee = taper crimp.
all others = roll crimp.

With taper crimp, perfect case sizing is less critical. With roll crimp, case O.A.L. is critical for consistency.

The truth lies within these simple constructs. Unbelievers: exit this thread and fart herein no more!
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Old December 11, 2012, 06:29   #73
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You, sir, have been to the mountain and have seen the light and heard the truth, even if it should be re-interpreted in G-Modal Tuning.

Lee = taper crimp.
all others = roll crimp.

With taper crimp, perfect case sizing is less critical. With roll crimp, case O.A.L. is critical for consistency.

The truth lies within these simple constructs. Unbelievers: exit this thread and fart herein no more!

Just so no one gets confused: the Lee factory crimp die is not a taper crimp die.
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Old December 11, 2012, 19:17   #74
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.. but others(Haney has not indicated he is among the "somebody" referenced) would resort to physical violence...according to Haney.
There we go, all is now explained. Jason is a woman. Perhaps not owning the plumbing, but suffering the mental maladies that plague the gentler sex. You mix that with a male anatomy and no wonder the boy has epic problems.

Sorry Jason, I'm close to being able to fix anything except a broken heart, but your problems are FAR beyond my ken. Those action figures you have on the shelf should have been a clue your wiring is a bit different.
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Old December 11, 2012, 19:23   #75
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Oh good god this thing is going 4 pages over a dumb dumb isn't it?
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Old December 11, 2012, 22:46   #76
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Originally Posted by Arby View Post
You, sir, have been to the mountain and have seen the light and heard the truth, even if it should be re-interpreted in G-Modal Tuning.

Lee = taper crimp.
all others = roll crimp.

With taper crimp, perfect case sizing is less critical. With roll crimp, case O.A.L. is critical for consistency.

The truth lies within these simple constructs. Unbelievers: exit this thread and fart herein no more!
Lee makes taper crimp dies, but everyone else does too.

Been awhile since I have loaded for a revolver, but assuming Lee makes roll crimp dies like everyone else does.
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Old December 11, 2012, 22:49   #77
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There we go, all is now explained. Jason is a woman. Perhaps not owning the plumbing, but suffering the mental maladies that plague the gentler sex. You mix that with a male anatomy and no wonder the boy has epic problems.

Sorry Jason, I'm close to being able to fix anything except a broken heart, but your problems are FAR beyond my ken. Those action figures you have on the shelf should have been a clue your wiring is a bit different.
Not a woman. Also, you wouldn't have stated your intent to ride my ass if you actually thought I was.
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Old December 12, 2012, 06:07   #78
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Meanwhile, those guys are thumping their e-Penises around on their keyboards..

However, from a guy who IS A reloader...

The Lee classic turret press reloader kit is probably the best deal going especially for someone who wants to get started. The press is a turret which means you can have all the dies for one caliber setup in their own turret plate, no need to pull dies in and out of the press, if you want to change to another caliber, pull out the turret plate, all the dies are still set up for next time.

The Lee Classic Turret uses a steel frame and base. It's a lot beefier than the old aluminum turret presses (Which, by the way, I have two of, and never had problems resizing anything up to 30-06 military cases) and it has a bigger ram than the old presses.

The RCBS presses are even bigger and heavier but they were designed to also be used for swaging bullets (Rock Chucker Bullet Swager = RCBS) and they are if anything overbuilt for what the average reloader needs.

Lee's dies so far have impressed me enough that I sold off my RCBS dies and use only Lee. You might see the need to polish the expander ball because some of them have been rough. That's just chucking the expander/decap rod in a drill and spinning it in some ultrafine sandpaper and steel wool. Otherwise I have had no issues with my Lee dies. The design of the decapper/expander which pushes up through a collet if you hit a berdan primer or some other problem has saved the decap rod many times for me. The three-die rifle set is a good set, the RGB 2-die sets are the best value out there.

You may pay more but for someone just starting out why bother. If you decide reloading IS your bag then you can upgrade parts and pieces as you need- there is a strong resale value for used gear- and you never know, you might be happy with what you have.
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Old December 12, 2012, 06:54   #79
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Meanwhile, those guys are thumping their e-Penises around on their keyboards..

However, from a guy who IS A reloader...

The Lee classic turret press reloader kit is probably the best deal going especially for someone who wants to get started. The press is a turret which means you can have all the dies for one caliber setup in their own turret plate, no need to pull dies in and out of the press, if you want to change to another caliber, pull out the turret plate, all the dies are still set up for next time.
I think the 4 hole one would be a very good choice even with having to do manual indexing particularly if he also wants to load pistol ammo.


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The Lee Classic Turret uses a steel frame and base. It's a lot beefier than the old aluminum turret presses (Which, by the way, I have two of, and never had problems resizing anything up to 30-06 military cases) and it has a bigger ram than the old presses.

The RCBS presses are even bigger and heavier but they were designed to also be used for swaging bullets (Rock Chucker Bullet Swager = RCBS) and they are if anything overbuilt for what the average reloader needs.
Used to have an old magazine with a half page ad showing a turret press with posts turned down to 1/8" dia. (IIRC) sizing a something like a .300 Win Mag.

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Lee's dies so far have impressed me enough that I sold off my RCBS dies and use only Lee. You might see the need to polish the expander ball because some of them have been rough. That's just chucking the expander/decap rod in a drill and spinning it in some ultrafine sandpaper and steel wool. Otherwise I have had no issues with my Lee dies. The design of the decapper/expander which pushes up through a collet if you hit a berdan primer or some other problem has saved the decap rod many times for me.
Flaws can happen with any of them. Got an RCBS die (best I can recall it was the sizer out of a .223 set ) that had a burr inside that put a nice deep scratch down every case. Called them up and no problem, they sent me out a replacement in .32/20. Another call asked me to send it back so I did and seems like I may have ended up sending back another .32/20 plus getting 2 more .32/20 dies after finally getting the correct (and flawless) .223 die.

The Lee decapper system is also a lot handier/cheaper than the RCBS stuck case remover I had to buy once upon a time.

Last edited by JasonB; December 12, 2012 at 07:04.
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Old December 12, 2012, 15:18   #80
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I have had a RCBS Rockchucker for 30+ years. Good solid press. A few years ago I bought some additional presses to speed things up a little. Cheapo ($25) open frame LEE ones. They work great! I mounted one to some plywood that I can clamp to the kitchen table so I can process brass watching tv in the house when it's too hot or too cold in the garage.
Got a mix of dies, RCBS, LEE, Redding. All good. Love my LEE autoprime and the LEE case trimmers you chuck up in a drill motor. Got a metric-butt-ton of LEE molds that cast some very nice boolits if I do my part.
If you want to get started cheap the LEE stuff is untouchable. IMHO.

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Old December 12, 2012, 20:51   #81
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I have had a RCBS Rockchucker for 30+ years. Good solid press. A few years ago I bought some additional presses to speed things up a little. Cheapo ($25) open frame LEE ones. They work great! I mounted one to some plywood that I can clamp to the kitchen table so I can process brass watching tv in the house when it's too hot or too cold in the garage.
Got a mix of dies, RCBS, LEE, Redding. All good. Love my LEE autoprime and the LEE case trimmers you chuck up in a drill motor. Got a metric-butt-ton of LEE molds that cast some very nice boolits if I do my part.
If you want to get started cheap the LEE stuff is untouchable. IMHO.

Dave Dude
This is pretty much the bottom line. Lee is the bottom of the barrel but it certainly will work and SOME of it is worth the savings.
If your wanting high quality or match........forget about Lee.
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Old December 12, 2012, 20:55   #82
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The thinking is that Lee is for n00bs, but you can't be an operator without the crimp, yet Lee is the only one who makes that kind of crimping tool (not roll crimp), so operators are forced to use Lee, even tho they are teh n00bzorZ.


I am an Operator! And don't you dare try and Crimp my style!
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Old December 14, 2012, 03:12   #83
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K .

All tier 1 Operators have the flashlight with the crenellated bezel, so do you have that?
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Old December 14, 2012, 06:05   #84
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This is pretty much the bottom line. Lee is the bottom of the barrel but it certainly will work and SOME of it is worth the savings.
If your wanting high quality or match........forget about Lee.
Geoff seems to be one of those guys who thinks that it's twice as good if it costs twice as much.

Sorta explains the SCAR thing.
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Old December 14, 2012, 07:55   #85
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The RCBS presses are even bigger and heavier but they were designed to also be used for swaging bullets (Rock Chucker Bullet Swager = RCBS) and they are if anything overbuilt for what the average reloader needs.
FWIW, I have swaged untold thousands of jacketed .40 bullets on a Lee press. Haven't broken anything yet. Lee stuff is a great value.
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Old December 14, 2012, 10:41   #86
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Whew! What a thread. Here are some thoughts from another actual reloader, like 10s of thousands of rounds of various calibers over 3+ decades. I have used some of all of it; Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Dillion, Herter’s, and more I can’t remember right now. I have presses from all of the aforementioned manufacturers and dies from them and everybody else (Pacific, Hornady, etc.) except maybe Redding. It all has worked and I can’t recall anything particularly bad about any of it. Yes, some of the Lee stuff is a little light duty but most works great. I have used a lot of their dies and maybe I am not sophisticated enough to know any better but they run fine, even in my Dillion 550B cranking out progressive ammo day in and day out. I have Dillion dies for some things but in at least two calibers, .38/.357 & .223, I run Lee dies in the 550B. Even in .40 S&W with Dillion dies I run a Lee Factory Crimp die in the last station.

To be honest, I am cranking out high rate competition and practice ammo and am not try to load teensy weensy group target grade ammo. But, I will soon be running some .38 Special flush wadcutters for my S&W 52 in the Dillion, with Lee dies, and I expect it to work fine. I find at least a few things of Lee’s to be real bargains. Their dies, mold handles, and mold blocks for examples. I do not particularly like their priming stuff although I loaded a lot of ammo with it before getting the Dillion and an RCBS hand prime. Their powder measures seem to work fine, even including the dippers! Anyway, get started loading with whatever you can find and afford.
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Old December 14, 2012, 10:59   #87
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So... Lee sux, but is good to go, RCBS is overpriced, but well worth it, Jason is a gurrly-guy and L wants to ride his ass on some backwoods mountain while Arby and Meb do a jig, reel, or tango or something...

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Old December 14, 2012, 15:40   #88
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So... Lee sux, but is good to go, RCBS is overpriced, but well worth it, Jason is a gurrly-guy and L wants to ride his ass on some backwoods mountain while Arby and Meb do a jig, reel, or tango or something...

Jason isn't girly. L wouldn't be wanting to ride my ass if so. Since L isn't female he is of no interest to me in that capacity
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Old December 15, 2012, 00:19   #89
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Geoff seems to be one of those guys who thinks that it's twice as good if it costs twice as much.

Sorta explains the SCAR thing.
One of my favorite rifles is a M44 that escaped the ruski re arsenal.......your totally wrong.......BUT my SCAR is everything your FAL's arn't.
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Old December 15, 2012, 09:27   #90
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One of my favorite rifles is a M44 that escaped the ruski re arsenal.......your totally wrong.......BUT my SCAR is everything your FAL's arn't.
Yeah, like sleek, ergonomic, and good lookin'. Mine's right at two minutes with Port, so it and I can most likely outshoot you and the Fish, except off the bench.

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Old December 15, 2012, 09:51   #91
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Yeah, like sleek, ergonomic, and good lookin'. Mine's right at two minutes with Port, so it and I can most likely outshoot you and the Fish, except off the bench.

But the fish has rails and cool mall ninja features!
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Old December 15, 2012, 11:55   #92
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I shoot sub moa with my dick in the dirt ladies........don't flatter yourselves.
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Old December 15, 2012, 12:11   #93
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I have no use for any of the LEE reloading equipment , except for the dies.

Still reloading on some that I bought in the early 80s , the rest of the LEE line has just not worked properly and or long term.

RCBS has stood the test of time, in fact just bought the universal hand primimg tool about 6 months ago and could not be happier.


By the By , you all are some funny M3therfucke*s . This has to be the most entertaing reloading thread I have ever read. Please carry on.
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Old December 15, 2012, 12:30   #94
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I shoot sub moa with my dick in the dirt ladies........don't flatter yourselves.
I would be willing to wager with iron sights at 200-600 yards shlomo would clean your clock...
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Old December 15, 2012, 18:37   #95
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I would be willing to wager with iron sights at 200-600 yards shlomo would clean your clock...
Maybe. Pretty dumb statement thou as you have no idea who I am or what I'm capable of.
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Old December 15, 2012, 19:30   #96
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Maybe. Pretty dumb statement thou as you have no idea who I am or what I'm capable of.
Not really as I know what Shlomo is all about, I will put my money where my mouth is though if you really want to see! (I could use the money too!)
(not that I would do any illegal gambling mind you)
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Old December 15, 2012, 22:10   #97
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I shoot sub moa with my dick in the dirt ladies........don't flatter yourselves.
Nude prone.......





Different !




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Old December 16, 2012, 02:22   #98
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"... you have no idea who I am or what I'm capable of."

You seem to spend a lot of space here telling us what you are capable of. Do you ever shoot with any other FALFilers that can vouch for your prowess with a rifle? Or compete in any recognized matches with posted scores and results?
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Old December 16, 2012, 08:42   #99
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Miss a day, miss a lot.

Been out of town at a wedding, and I check in to find that JeffJ has been playing "Let's you and him fight", and GeoffSee.22 has gone testosterone overload and been sent to Banned Camp.

I love this place.
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Old December 16, 2012, 09:00   #100
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Well he said we had no idea who he was or what he was capable of so maybe he was Lon Horiuchi.
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