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Old November 19, 2012, 16:01   #1
Hot-fal
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Poly-tech M-14

Whom can provide info on the Poly-tech rifle with the complete flashhider on the barrel? It is welded in place, it has the complete casting, minus the slots are not cut? I know the early imports had the barrels cut at the fh.. I just read here about some side marked and other marks on them.The rifle shoots very well, the stock is not pretty, there is not much wear, to show any usage...
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Old November 19, 2012, 17:33   #2
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Check the headspace - the bolts are soft on a lot of them.
I've never seen one with a welded dummy FH, mine was affixed in normal fashion and replaced by a NOS USGI NM unit back when they were common and inexpensive.

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Old November 19, 2012, 18:25   #3
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Originally Posted by Hot-fal View Post
Whom can provide info on the Poly-tech rifle with the complete flashhider on the barrel? It is welded in place, it has the complete casting, minus the slots are not cut? I know the early imports had the barrels cut at the fh.. I just read here about some side marked and other marks on them.The rifle shoots very well, the stock is not pretty, there is not much wear, to show any usage...
Where're you from friend originally?

I have never seen a Polytech with a welded, fake flash hider.

As stated before, some had soft bolts that would open the headspace after many firings.

My polytech actually lost the wheel from the bolt during a range outing. I didn't notice until I field stripped it for cleaning. Have to check headspace with gauges periodically to insure it is still safe to fire.
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Old November 19, 2012, 18:37   #4
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I have seen the Poly's with the welded ban era FH. They do exist.
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Old November 19, 2012, 18:39   #5
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I picked up a used Poly M-14S a few years back from a LGS. Mine sounds about like yours... side marked, same ugly wood stock, and fake flash hider. Mine had a really light weld and was very easy to remove. Just backed out the set screw, loosened the castle nut and hit the "flash supressor" with a hammer and wood block...loosen nut and repeat. It did no not take much force at all to break it loose. I have had no headspace issues and the Poly has a forged receiver vs. the cast receivers on my Springfields although there have been no issues with them either.

I hope that you enjoy Poly!

Nearnuf
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Old November 20, 2012, 10:11   #6
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Cool

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I picked up a used Poly M-14S a few years back from a LGS. Mine sounds about like yours... side marked, same ugly wood stock, and fake flash hider. Mine had a really light weld and was very easy to remove. Just backed out the set screw, loosened the castle nut and hit the "flash supressor" with a hammer and wood block...loosen nut and repeat. It did no not take much force at all to break it loose. I have had no headspace issues and the Poly has a forged receiver vs. the cast receivers on my Springfields although there have been no issues with them either.

I hope that you enjoy Poly!

Nearnuf
Thanks, Mine came from a divorce sale. Nearly new with bayonet. I cannot detect any softness. it fires like my old service rifle, a lot like my Fal, except lighter..The wood is butt ugly. Was the Fh threaded the proper direction??That little weld is tempting me, a lot..I guess I should watch for the wheel issue mentioned here.
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Old November 21, 2012, 11:00   #7
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Was the Fh threaded the proper direction??
As I recall, you need to re-use your Chinese nut but a USGI flash hider FSB fits right on. I did my Poly but on my Norinco did away with the whole shebang and shortened the barrel and installed a gas-block (I think that is what it is called) front sight from Marstar in Canada.
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Old November 21, 2012, 12:10   #8
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As I recall, you need to re-use your Chinese nut but a USGI flash hider FSB fits right on.
This^^^. Also the set screw that locks the "Castle Nut" is slightly different and VERY soft. I reused mine, but the hex hole(?) wallowed out after the second removal. Just cut a slot for screwdriver w/Dremel cut-off wheel. YMMV
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Old November 22, 2012, 10:30   #9
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As others have already noted, some of the threads are not compatible. The flash suppressor nut and gas cylinder lock are metric. As i recall, the barrel-receiver threads are standard. The stock barrels are pretty nice shooters. The rear sight is typically soft so if you are cranking L-R windage (trying to keep up with wind changes) you might want to drop in GI parts.
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Old November 27, 2012, 16:46   #10
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As others have already noted, some of the threads are not compatible. The flash suppressor nut and gas cylinder lock are metric. As i recall, the barrel-receiver threads are standard. The stock barrels are pretty nice shooters. The rear sight is typically soft so if you are cranking L-R windage (trying to keep up with wind changes) you might want to drop in GI parts.
Okay, pulled it completely down..No other markings..The Fh is firmly welded at the nut..I am going to drill a couple holes in the blank slots and use it that way..3 sets 30 degrees apart..The rifle has hardly been fired judging by the inside of the reciever and the bolt... It is a m14s..side marked . Anyone have comparison photo of the USGI bolt and the poly-tec bolt and wheel,side by each? I know i saw one, just cannot recall it? The Mags are 5 round and 20 rd, with out any markings..I understand these rifles were built for covert use..Copied from captures in VN?
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Old November 28, 2012, 08:36   #11
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I think the "covert use" storyline was thought up by sellers. No, I'm 99% sure the M14's were built solely for US (and other nations) export market.

I'd say yeah, go ahead and wallow out the slots in the hider, should work decently.

I got a Polytech with the real flash-hider, and had to get a US bolt installed, it was SUPER out of spec. USGI bolt was included in the sale, and after installation, works like a charm, not a bit of problem, and accurate to boot

The USGI and Chinese bolts APPEAR near-identical, but the USGI bolts should have a serial # and manufacturer initials on them. My Chinese bolt was bare.
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Old November 28, 2012, 21:40   #12
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I dont have any pictures handy but as already noted in the prior post the Chinese bolts are not marked. The USGI bolts are typically marked with part number, manufacturer code, heat treatment lot number and, steel supplier code although the markings varied with manufacturer. They also have a punch mark in the middle of the top of the bolt indicating that the bolt has passed high pressure testing.

Additionally, the Chinese bolts were manufactured using different steel alloys from USGI (8620-USGI vs. 4135-Chinese). The bolt locking lugs are also dimensionally slightly narrower than USGI specs. This results in USGI bolts typically not being drop in parts in the Chinese barreled actions. Headspace needs to be checked and adjusted as appropriate.

SAI commercial bolts can be confused for USGI Springfield Armory bolts but have different part numbers stamped on them and will not have the high pressure test punch mark.

Nearnuf
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Old December 03, 2012, 22:50   #13
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Exclamation

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Okay, pulled it completely down..No other markings..The Fh is firmly welded at the nut..I am going to drill a couple holes in the blank slots and use it that way..3 sets 30 degrees apart..The rifle has hardly been fired judging by the inside of the reciever and the bolt... It is a m14s..side marked . Anyone have comparison photo of the USGI bolt and the poly-tec bolt and wheel,side by each? I know i saw one, just cannot recall it? The Mags are 5 round and 20 rd, with out any markings..I understand these rifles were built for covert use..Copied from captures in VN?
Are you saying that the flash suppressor nut is welded to the flash suppressor? I have seen that on the Polys that had he bobbed flash suppressor. The closed flah suppressors were usually spot welded to the barrel. You might try using a brass punch instead of a block of wood.
The flash suppressor nut threads on the barrel are close enough to accept a US GI nut. The gas cylinder lock threads are not.

Remmber to stay 922R compliant.

Regards

Ox
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Old December 10, 2012, 16:20   #14
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Are you saying that the flash suppressor nut is welded to the flash suppressor? I have seen that on the Polys that had he bobbed flash suppressor. The closed flah suppressors were usually spot welded to the barrel. You might try using a brass punch instead of a block of wood.
The flash suppressor nut threads on the barrel are close enough to accept a US GI nut. The gas cylinder lock threads are not.

Remmber to stay 922R compliant.
Regards
Ox
Omg, I had not evne thought of the regs? "Keep the powder dry boys"...

Last edited by Hot-fal; January 17, 2013 at 17:24. Reason: info editing
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Old December 11, 2012, 16:31   #15
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Smile Poly Tech M14

HOT FAL, I have observed on Norinco and Poly Tech M14's that the trigger housing, operating rod and bolt are marked with a number. The trigger housing number is engraved and the operating rod and bolt are electric pencil marked. Most of the rifles that I have seen have the same number on all three parts. This number is NOT the same number as the serial number of the rifle. Some rifles do not have matching numbers on these parts. The trigger housing is marked on the top right edge on its left side. The bolt is marked on the bottom of the bolt body, on its right side, on the flat area. The operating rod is marked on the top of the dished out area that almost touches the bottom of the barrel. The trigger housing marking is usually easy to see. The operating rod and bolt markings can be very faint and hard to see. I had thought that these markings were an "assembly number". That is a number applied to parts that are hand fitted to an assembly to ensure that they go back to the same assembly in case they get separated. This marking usually takes place before the rifle serial number has been assigned and stamped. This method was used in Europe and Japan to make sure that the correct parts stayed together during the fabrication, assembly (headspace, trigger pull, op. rod fitment, etc.), and rework/repair (if necessary)of a firearm during its build up process.

However, I was told by an expert that this was not what these numbers are for on Norinco and Polytech rifles. The expert did not tell me what he thought the number marking was for. I still think this marking is an "assembly number". It may not matter. I just feel better if these 3 numbers match.

These are good rifles. I own several and shoot them a lot. I have inspected them for other shooters. In my 14 years of using them, I have had no problems. I have heard of other people having issues, but have not been able to actually track a problem to ground. Not that there have not been problems. Anyway , hope this helps. Regards, Johnny Lawson
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Old December 11, 2012, 17:44   #16
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Smile Poly Tech M14

I forgot to mention in my earlier post regarding the welding of the fake flash suppressor. I have seen the cut off (bobbed) flash suppressor with the castle nut welded to the flash suppressor. All of the fake flash suppressors (those that are the correct length and not bobbed) and do not have the slots machined out that I have seen are welded to the barrel. Looking into the rear of the fake flash suppressor at a slight down angle, there are two raised lugs that fit into the barrel alignment slots. Just below the raised lugs, you should see evidence of a drilled hole - 1 hole just below each lug. These holes will be filled with weld. I believe that the fake flash suppressor is installed and then welded to the barrel by welding thru these holes. The outside weld is then ground down and the finish applied. From the outside, this weld job is very, very hard to see. This is not a good weld and is easy to overcome. After removing the very soft allen screw and loosening the crown nut, place a piece of wood on the rear of the sight and tap with a hammer or mallet. It does not take much force to break the weld. Loosen the crown nut and slide the suppressor forward until it comes off. I have spoken to folks who have removed the suppressor and they did not realize that it was welded on. They said that they removed the suppressor " the regular old way". So, maybe the weld did not take or the weld was so bad that barrel vibrations from shooting caused the weld to break. If you have the un-bobbed fake flash suppressor, take a look at it . Let us know what you find.

By the way, use a real good, metric allen wrench on that tiny allen screw or you might strip it out. Can be a pita to get it out. Regards, Johnny Lawson
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Old December 17, 2012, 15:41   #17
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Stock change out.

Well, I have been flebayin and still don't have a nice replacement stock..Would like to have a synthetic one for accurizing, but with current events around owning military type rifles..I might have to lay low on acquisiton of future parts..I thought freds stocks might have a decent one?? Ideas? Okay sent ina order with Freds stocks, really hope for a nice Birch one of the pair...Any body tryed to remove a weld from a parade bolt head?? I have tryed to find a spare, with out selling my car for the payment???

Last edited by Hot-fal; January 03, 2013 at 09:04. Reason: additonal info
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Old January 07, 2013, 09:29   #18
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Well, I have been flebayin and still don't have a nice replacement stock..Would like to have a synthetic one for accurizing, but with current events around owning military type rifles..I might have to lay low on acquisiton of future parts..I thought freds stocks might have a decent one?? Ideas? Okay sent ina order with Freds stocks, really hope for a nice Birch one of the pair...Any body tryed to remove a weld from a parade bolt head?? I have tryed to find a spare, with out selling my car for the payment???
Okay, Freds is slow, but I will be patient, maybe one of them will be pretty stock? Week-end gun show did not have any m-14 bolts or firing pins. fleabay was a bust on bid, as i refuse to be badly greased with a smile..
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Old January 07, 2013, 17:15   #19
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Don't get in a hurry to swap the bolt. You never stated if you checked the headspace. My 2 Polytechs that I've owned since the very early 90's, have multi 1000's of rds thru them and the headspace hasn't changed any.

If you have to swap the bolt, spend the money and get a new one for less then $200 from LRB or Fulton. The poly bolt parts [pin, extractor and ejector] will fit and they are as good as USGI.

DON'T take a chance with a drill rifle welded bolt.

Last edited by hardass; January 11, 2013 at 10:30.
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Old January 11, 2013, 10:10   #20
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Thumbs up FH removal tips

[QUOTE=mike law;3487000]. Just below the raised lugs, you should see evidence of a drilled hole - 1 hole just below each lug. These holes will be filled with weld. I believe that the fake flash suppressor is installed and then welded to the barrel by welding thru these holes. The outside weld is then ground down and the finish applied. From the outside, this weld job is very, very hard to see. This is not a good weld and is easy to overcome. After removing the very soft allen screw and loosening the crown nut, place a piece of wood on the rear of the sight and tap with a hammer or mallet. It does not take much force to break the weld. Loosen the crown nut and slide the suppressor forward until it comes off. I have spoken to folks who have removed the suppressor and they did not realize that it was welded on. They said that they removed the suppressor " the regular old way". So, maybe the weld did not take or the weld was so bad that barrel vibrations from shooting caused the weld to break. If you have the un-bobbed fake flash suppressor, take a look at it . Let us know what you find. End of quote..
The flashhider was not welded, the two holes weld did not penatrate???It was very tight, but slid off..The nut left perfect clean threads..Now the entire assy is back and looking good, It took hours to cut the holes, that metal is pretty hard..next few shots should tell the tale on it.. sure hope it does not split, as it looks nice..should be effective too..
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Old January 11, 2013, 10:47   #21
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This is what I did to " fix " mine. It's works great at reducing muzzle flip and flash suppresion. ....Simple too...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_6423 (400x300).jpg (96.9 KB, 155 views)
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Old January 11, 2013, 16:00   #22
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Talking drilled techniques..

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This is what I did to " fix " mine. It's works great at reducing muzzle flip and flash suppresion. ....Simple too...
Yeap that is it..Mine has a row of four down the top..Three down each side..None on the lower section..The holes on the left are slightly larger than the slots..Holes on right are same size as slot impressions.. You did a real nice job too..Do I see red on the sight post? or ??? Btw... nice clear photo. THX.
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Old January 11, 2013, 16:42   #23
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That's some fluorescent orange on top and bright white on the face.

Helps my old tired eyes focus up faster.
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Old January 11, 2013, 17:05   #24
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That's some fluorescent orange on top and bright white on the face.

Helps my old tired eyes focus up faster.
Thats a great idea too..i can still see my sights below the b-square mount...I am going to burn some powder tomorrow night just to see about the flashing??Plus i want to try the poly mags..Wish I had a camera man to help..
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Old January 12, 2013, 02:06   #25
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Polytech M14

Glad that your flash hider weld was easy to remove. Luckily for us, I don't think that the weld was meant to be real strong. Notice that the crown nut is not welded and the weld thru the two holes is very weak.

If you are looking for spare parts for your Polytech, check with Smith Enterprises in Arizona (Phoenix Area). I bought some parts from Ron Smith (owner). I got the parts that do not interchange (gas cylinder lock, crown nut, etc). He also had bolts, barrels, gas systems and other parts. The parts that I received had little to no wear on them, fit perfectly and were priced reasonably.

Hope this helps. Regards, Johnny Lawson
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Old January 14, 2013, 12:05   #26
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Glad that your flash hider weld was easy to remove. Luckily for us, I don't think that the weld was meant to be real strong. Notice that the crown nut is not welded and the weld thru the two holes is very weak.

If you are looking for spare parts for your Polytech, check with Smith Enterprises in Arizona (Phoenix Area). I bought some parts from Ron Smith (owner). I got the parts that do not interchange (gas cylinder lock, crown nut, etc). He also had bolts, barrels, gas systems and other parts. The parts that I received had little to no wear on them, fit perfectly and were priced reasonably.
Hope this helps. Regards, Johnny Lawson
I sent him two e-mails and have not had any luck getting info on it..I do want a spare Bolt or at least a firing pin..I heated the rifle up at sundown saturday..not shooting far-enough for the tracers to be very pretty..The flash was minimal..The mags were running good...So i had a big smile..
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Old January 15, 2013, 02:11   #27
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Poly-Tech m14

Hot-fal, I just looked at the Smith Enterprise web site. Under "parts and accessories" on the left side is a block that says "Chinese parts - call for availability" Same as before. It seems that everyone is real busy these days, so it may take a couple of days to get a return message. You might give them a call at (480) 964-1818.

It took me a couple of tries before I got thru to Ron Smith. He did return my call and he had all the parts I needed. Ron told me that the parts he has are parts taken off of rifles that he has rebuilt with G.I. parts. I got only the parts that are unique to the Polytech - gas plug, gas cylinder lock, crown nut, bolt lock/pin, charger guide/pin, and flash suppressor set screw. These parts were like new and fit perfect. The following have to be replaced as a unit, individual parts are not interchangable - rear sight assembly, gas cylinder assembly, and(I think) the bolt assembly. The trigger housing assembly parts can be replaced as parts. The operating rod is interchangable. The op rod spring has been too short (about 1/4 ") on every Poly and Norinco that I have seen. But, they seem to work fine.

You might check the headspace and bolt lug contact. If they are good,life is good. Recheck every so often. That seems to be the one sore spot for the Chinese M14s. I did replace the op rod spring, that 1/4" thing bothered me. However, I do not know of anyone ever having a problem because of that.

My buddies and I have shot the snot out of that Poly and never one problem. I feed it, clean/lube it and check the headspace/bolt every once in a while. Lots of life left in it. Hope you have the same with yours. Regards, Johnny Lawson
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Old January 15, 2013, 08:48   #28
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Hot-fal, I just looked at the Smith Enterprise web site. Under "parts and accessories" on the left side is a block that says "Chinese parts - call for availability" Same as before. It seems that everyone is real busy these days, so it may take a couple of days to get a return message. You might give them a call at (480) 964-1818.

It took me a couple of tries before I got thru to Ron Smith. He did return my call and he had all the parts I needed. Ron told me that the parts he has are parts taken off of rifles that he has rebuilt with G.I. parts. I got only the parts that are unique to the Polytech - gas plug, gas cylinder lock, crown nut, bolt lock/pin, charger guide/pin, and flash suppressor set screw. These parts were like new and fit perfect. The following have to be replaced as a unit, individual parts are not interchangable - rear sight assembly, gas cylinder assembly, and(I think) the bolt assembly. The trigger housing assembly parts can be replaced as parts. The operating rod is interchangable. The op rod spring has been too short (about 1/4 ") on every Poly and Norinco that I have seen. But, they seem to work fine.

You might check the headspace and bolt lug contact. If they are good,life is good. Recheck every so often. That seems to be the one sore spot for the Chinese M14s. I did replace the op rod spring, that 1/4" thing bothered me. However, I do not know of anyone ever having a problem because of that.

My buddies and I have shot the snot out of that Poly and never one problem. I feed it, clean/lube it and check the headspace/bolt every once in a while. Lots of life left in it. Hope you have the same with yours. Regards, Johnny Lawson
Thanks, mine is running great, i have a new oper. spring on the way from Freds..With a birch stock set, let you know when i see them..I assume the spring holder rod is okay, I did notice the slidepin looks a little sloppy.
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Old January 15, 2013, 23:15   #29
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Poly-Tech M14

Hot-fal, A G.I. op rod spring should be o.k. on a chinese spring guide. The inner diameter of the chinese spring is just a little smaller than the G.I. spring. Sometimes, this is a problem when using a National Match Spring Guide. I am using a G.I. spring with a Chinese Spring Guide. I have had no problems.

By the way, I currently have 2 Polys. Back in '93 I installed a lot of G.I. Parts on my first one. The receiver, barrel, crown nut, flash suppressor, set screw, gas cylinder lock, bolt lock/pin and the charger guide/pin are the remaining Chinese parts. It came with a regular slotted flash suppressor. Parts were affordable back then! The rest of the Chinese parts were replaced with G.I. parts. My second poly was left (except for the op rod spring) with its factory original parts. It also came with a slotted flash suppressor. Both of these rifles have been used a lot. I wanted to compare the two to see how fast the Chinese would wear out. Well, the Chinese one is wearing as well as the one with G.I. parts. I have not had any problems at all with either. Neither one fails the 7.62 mm "no go" headspace gage. So, I wouldn't rush out and start replacing parts until they start to wear. Parts nowdays are very expensive. Just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

I have inspected several Polys over the years. They all passed the checklist. I personally have not seen one fail. I have seen Springfield Armory m14s fail as well as Federal Ordinance. Lots of Fed Ord. So, enjoy your Poly. Regards, Johnny Lawson
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