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Old November 07, 2012, 21:06   #1
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Extraction problem. Winchester 100

I'm trying to fix a Winchester model 100 that does not extract. I found and replaced the extractor hoping this would solve the problem. It did not. This is a semi-auto rifle that is now a single shot. Any ideas?
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Old November 07, 2012, 21:19   #2
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Did you replace the extractor plunger and spring as well?

Edited to add;
Have you checked to see if you have free travel of the gas piston? Also how is the lock up of the magazine? Tight? Wobble? Canted rearward?

Last edited by 'TUDE; November 07, 2012 at 21:28.
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Old November 07, 2012, 22:53   #3
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Have you thoroughly cleaned the chamber?

Semiauto rifles that are difficult to clean from the rear tend to get gunk and rust in the chamber, because it never really gets attention.
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Old November 08, 2012, 06:55   #4
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I did replace the plunger too. The spring was unavailable. I thoroughly cleaned the bolt, gas tube and all. Did not clean the chamber but will try it.
It seems to me that the bolt doesn't quite go all the way forward to engage the extraction system. Even dropped from all the way back it often fails to grab the round. Upon visual inspection it appears to be all the way forward but in a game of micrometers it may not be quite enough.
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Old November 08, 2012, 07:10   #5
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I did replace the plunger too. The spring was unavailable. I thoroughly cleaned the bolt, gas tube and all. Did not clean the chamber but will try it.
It seems to me that the bolt doesn't quite go all the way forward to engage the extraction system. Even dropped from all the way back it often fails to grab the round. Upon visual inspection it appears to be all the way forward but in a game of micrometers it may not be quite enough.
If you fired it and did not blow a case head, it is going forward, grabbing the rim, and locking.

Your admission that you have not yet cleaned the chamber makes it a near 100% certainty in my mind that this is the problem. Seen it a dozen times in Remington and Browning autoloaders that have to be cleaned from the muzzle. Bore gets brushed and cleaned, but all the crap in the chamber gets left to fester.

Wrap some OOOO steel wool strands in a .45 cal pistol brush, apply BreakFree, Kroil, or even Hoppes, and spin it in the chamber. Dry, and go shoot.
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Old November 08, 2012, 10:37   #6
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^^^^Do this first^^^^ Then, take a dummy round (I call them shlomo rounds) and mark the back end all around the case head and inthe extractor groove with bluing or black magic marker. Load the shlomo round into the chamber and close the bolt a few times. Then, remove the empty cartridge and see where the extractor is marking up the case head. Also, just simply putting in a new extractor does not fix an extractor problem. If the old spring is worn and has insufficient power, then a new extractor will not fix the issue. The extractor will simply ride over the case head. Make sure that the extractor is not doing this as well and that it has a nice, sharp "hook" to it.


Sorry, shlomo....buddy!


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Old November 08, 2012, 11:44   #7
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Crap in the extractor cut on the barrel extention can prevent the extractor from fully engaging as well.
It does not take much.
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Old November 08, 2012, 12:06   #8
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Clean it like your kids life depends on it......spray cleaners only do so much.....
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Old November 08, 2012, 13:14   #9
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Dirty chamber. I am not a betting man but would bet that is the issue. I have several Winchester 100s, a .308 rifle, a .308 carbine, and a .284 rifle and have never had any trouble and never gave it any thought. Then I got a Remington 742 that will not extract, and studing the issue realized the Winchester can suffer the same sorry issues as the Remington. The hard to get at to clean and inspect chamber is the problem. That and a lot of guys (Fudds) that buy these generally don't take care of them like they should. Humm, maybe I need to walk by the safe and at least give the chmabers a shot of something while they sleep.
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Old November 08, 2012, 17:22   #10
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^^^^Do this first^^^^ Then, take a dummy round (I call them shlomo rounds) and mark the back end all around the case head and inthe extractor groove with bluing or black magic marker. Load the shlomo round into the chamber and close the bolt a few times. Then, remove the empty cartridge and see where the extractor is marking up the case head. Also, just simply putting in a new extractor does not fix an extractor problem. If the old spring is worn and has insufficient power, then a new extractor will not fix the issue. The extractor will simply ride over the case head. Make sure that the extractor is not doing this as well and that it has a nice, sharp "hook" to it.


Sorry, shlomo....buddy!


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Old November 08, 2012, 20:46   #11
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Gentleman, I will be checking out the chamber and giving it a good cleaning. I will follow up once I get a chance to take it out to the range. Thanks much!
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Old November 09, 2012, 00:11   #12
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If that doesn't work check the connecting/op rods, they can bend and cause friction.
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Old November 09, 2012, 00:57   #13
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You say the spring is unavailable. Try Lee's gun parts in Irving, Texas. Their web site sucks so you will have to call them.

http://www.leesgunparts.com/
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Old November 09, 2012, 21:21   #14
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Chambermaids?

http://www.cjweapons.com/aspcart45/d...ge=306&start=1
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Old November 13, 2012, 20:25   #15
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I am at a loss!
I have thoroughly cleaned this rifle, the chamber, the gas system, the bolt, used the steel wool, blown it all out with an air compressor, cleaned it again, lightly lubricated, checked the function with dummy rounds, that eject by hand everytime and then fired! One still in the pipe and one jammed up behind it holding the bolt back! I hate to admit it but i am whipped!
is it possible that the magazine spring has become weak and is causing the problem???
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Old November 13, 2012, 22:03   #16
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Since the bolt is getting far enough back to pick up the next round, it would seem that it is unlikely that the bolt is short-stroking and rechambering the fired case.

When you knock out the stuck fired case, does it show any anomalies, like rings around parts of the case body, or bulges?
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:11   #17
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the spent case on visual inspection looks great. no bulges or ruptures.
A live round slides in and out like silk but the fired round obviously larger in diameter now sticks a lot. It appears on the rim that the extractor had a good hold on it too as it pulls a definate extractor width groove into it when the bolt was actioned. Not harming the case rim, just definately showing signs of being pulled off.
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:58   #18
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the spent case on visual inspection looks great. no bulges or ruptures.
A live round slides in and out like silk but the fired round obviously larger in diameter now sticks a lot. It appears on the rim that the extractor had a good hold on it too as it pulls a definate extractor width groove into it when the bolt was actioned. Not harming the case rim, just definately showing signs of being pulled off.
I'm assuming that the ejector plungers are working, since it ejects correctly when manually cycled.

I'd be interested to know whether the extractor is pulling off the rim and leaving the case in the chamber, or whether it is pulling the case partway back and then rechambering under a short-cycle. Is it possible for you to fire the rifle and observe this?
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:08   #19
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Did a little reading around just now. It appears that this is a very common problem with this rifle. Seems that the consensus is that the extractor is a bit under-engineered. One guy alleges that Nu-line Guns offers a beefed-up or oversized extractor for it that cured his problem.

You may want to call or email them to inquire.

http://www.nulineguns.com/category_part_64_2_21_64.php
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Old November 14, 2012, 20:08   #20
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Thanks for hanging in there with me shlomo! I will try anything at this point. I just wish i understood the problem. Part of my genetic makeup to have to find the answers but at this point I'll take a fix and be glad to have it.
Thanks again!
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Old November 14, 2012, 20:23   #21
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Nothin' to it. Making something run again that was fugged up is one of life's delights, in my book. Hope you can get to the bottom of this one.

Just a guess, but from reading up on it, it seems that the mechanics of the gun start the bolt moving a tad too soon, while a relatively high pressure still has the case walls expanded against the chamber wall. Seems like the extractor doesn't have enough ass to stay on the rim as the bolt goes back.

One guy who commented said that his slightly-downpowered handloads functioned fine, but the hotter commercial ammo stuck in the chamber.

Just FWIW.
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Last edited by shlomo; November 14, 2012 at 21:04. Reason: I don't just grammar-nazi other people's stuff.
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Old November 15, 2012, 09:25   #22
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OK, I got to ask.

Factory ammo or reloads?
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Old November 15, 2012, 13:41   #23
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A bit off trac--- what was the lever action model?
Model 88? Did it suffer from the same anemic extractor?
I don't know much about these rifles but I did get to shoot
a few rounds from a model 100 many years ago. I sorta'
liked it. Thought it would be great for delta lowland woods
hunting.

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Old November 16, 2012, 00:15   #24
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My dad had a 243, my grand father and two uncles have/had 308s, my brother now has the old mans 243 and I have a 284. A good friend has a 308. All the problems with them I have seen (lots) have been op rods. Stuck, bent, popped off. Op rods, op rods, op rods. Well that and one corroded piston.
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Old November 19, 2012, 18:23   #25
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I used factory loads.
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Old November 19, 2012, 18:27   #26
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I tried a little brass experiment and am not sure if it tells me anything or not but found it peculiar. Empties shot from this gun don't want to go back into the chamber. Empties from another .308 I have slide right into the chamber. Is this guns chamber allowing over expansion of the brass? Throat erosion problem? Ay thoughts?
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Old November 19, 2012, 19:35   #27
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Not all chambers are created equal. They vary by reamer design, reamer wear, and the setup and skill of the operator doing the reaming. It is very easy for a careless workman to ream a chamber oversize diametrically.

That said, a lot of semiautos show more brass expansion simply because the bolt opens while there is some residual pressure in the bore. It may be low, on the order of around 5,000 psi, which is not enough to rupture anything, but enough to stretch brass or set the shoulder forward as the case is extracted.

I seem to want to ask whether your fired brass that fails to eject is easy to get out of the chamber afterward, and what it takes to do it. Can you get it out by closing the bolt on the stuck case and extracting it manually, or do you have to pound it out with a cleaning rod or some such?
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Old November 19, 2012, 21:01   #28
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I have to drag it out with a screwdriver. I have also tried to drop the bolt on it again which locks it back up on the case. I can't then work the bolt by hand and have to mallet the receiver open.
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Old November 19, 2012, 21:04   #29
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Could it hurt to do some steel wool turning in the chamber to try and loosen it up a bit? I am a bit Leary of this but maybe an option.
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Old November 19, 2012, 21:37   #30
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Could it hurt to do some steel wool turning in the chamber to try and loosen it up a bit? I am a bit Leary of this but maybe an option.
I thought you already did that?

No amount within reason of spinning 000 or 0000 steel wool (especially when lubricated with something like BreakFree) is going to damage your chamber or throat, as long as whatever it is spinning on is not solid steel and does not come in contact with the chamber or throat surface. As before, I recommend a .45 cal pistol brush with steel wool wound into it. A hand drill or battery drill-driver works well for this.
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Old November 21, 2012, 09:04   #31
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I turned it by hand. I will rig up something with my drill and try it. I was afraid to be aggressive with it.
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Old November 21, 2012, 09:37   #32
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I turned it by hand. I will rig up something with my drill and try it. I was afraid to be aggressive with it.
I recently had an AR15 that was getting fussy. I thought it was clean but finally in desperation chucked a brush in a short piece of rod and my variable speed cordless. I lubed her up and ran it in and out of the chamber. I knocked out pure chunks of crap, not visible or removed by ordinary cleaning. I was just before hand-turning a .223 finishing reamer in the chamber to see if that helped when the through cleaning cured it. Funny thing, if I had used the reamer first I am sure that would have cured it and I might not have known it was carbon build up causing the problem.

Kind of off-topic but I bought the .223 finishing reamer years ago to correct a VERY tightly chambered T/C Contender barrel that would not chamber most factory ammo. I then made an extension for the reamer to slide it through the action and into the chamber of AR barrels to clean them up. Fixed a couple of the old "Nesard" sourced barrels with rough/short chambers back in the day that way. I still have those guns/barrels and they run great.
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Old November 24, 2012, 16:40   #33
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Well, I am happy to report, success!!! Let me thank Shlomo for hanging in there with me. I got the drill out and wrapped a .45 brush with some .000 steel wool, grabbed the break free and went to work. After a good air compressor wash, I took her out to the range. I used fresh Privi ammo and she ate it up like a hungry Lion!
Again, thanks to all for the advice, after all its Deer season here in WV and someone's got a date
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Old November 24, 2012, 19:22   #34
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Out-freakin-standing!

Now go and getcha one a them deer.

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