VZ-61 compliance parts?

[TRT01]

Other than a US barrel, has anyone had any luck with compliance parts for a VZ-61 Skorpion?

Would love to SBR one, but my understanding is that once you SBR you are subject to 922 and I think that even with a US barrel you would still be 3 US parts short. Fabricating a grip seems logical, and the individual in the link below fabbed floor plates and followers. Since I don't think I have the tools to fab the mag components, what else would make sense?

http://www.silencertests.com/forum/v...ddf7d6ce5ec0a8

Nothing commercial I've seen, so any homebrew suggestions for thought?

[shortround]

SBR's are not subject to 922r, I believe.

[OMR_RDTandE]

Originally Posted by shortround

SBR's are not subject to 922r, I believe.

What he said. I believe 922r ties in with "sporting" purpose, as to justification. An NFA weapon doesn't need to meet the sporting purpose definition, they are legally classified as another category of firearm.

This was why when the "street sweeper" and other shotguns were administratively declared, after the fact, to not have a sporting purpose, they were redefined to be destructive devices and required to be registered on the NFA registry.

To add some confusion, at about this same time frame, the '94 assault weapons ban (AWB) went into effect. The BATF administratively determined that the AWB DID apply to NFA weapons. So, new short barreled rifles (SBR) couldn't have more than two of the evil features, even thought they were on the NFA registry.

Omar

[TRT01]

That would be excellent if correct! I have read excerpts from 922r, but not the whole code. Sounds like more research is in order. If anyone has an idea of where the exact wording might be or has talked to BATF already please let me know. I'll share whatever conclusion is reached here.

[JB Books]

The ATF has nothing in official print about 922r and NFA weapons, just conflicting letters they have sent out. Letters from a few years ago say no, 922r does not apply to NFA weapons, but letters in the last 3-4 years says 922r does apply.

[aardq]

Trust only what is written on ATF letterhead or on their web site. And if following something on their site, download and keep a copy just in case.

Do NOT trust anything verbal from anyone in ATF regardless of their position. Not saying that ATF will lie to you, but I will say that most ATF employees don't know their own laws and regs. It is not unusual to ask 2-3 ATF folks and get 2-3 different answers.

Dan

[wkendwarrior2003]

The only place I'd ever heard 922r applied to NFA stuff was over at HKpro, and I think whoever it was that started it over there was going off a letter written to him by ATF supposedly. Who knows if that is true or not...wtf ever...

I know you said you were planning on building one of these yourself, but perhaps it would be a good idea to ask a professional gunsmith what the deal is with 922r and SBRs?

[TRT01]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone specializing in these builds to ask. Czechpoint USA was selling a model with instructions to register as a SBR and those didn't have compliance parts. So do the people that already have them face reprocussions for owning a firearm that was (later?) deemed noncompliant with 922r? I'd hate to build thinking I'm in compliance and later learn the rules were altered an the firearm in violation.

[OMR_RDTandE]

Originally Posted by TRT01

Unfortunately I don't know anyone specializing in these builds to ask. Czechpoint USA was selling a model with instructions to register as a SBR and those didn't have compliance parts. So do the people that already have them face reprocussions for owning a firearm that was (later?) deemed noncompliant with 922r? I'd hate to build thinking I'm in compliance and later learn the rules were altered an the firearm in violation.

I think this is much ado about nothing.

The possibility always exists for the BATF&E to make administrative changes that retroactively impact legally held weapons. Even obtaining an affirmative finding, in writing, in support of your project, only gives you an affirmative defense if they decide to later change their minds. YMMV.

Omar

[JB Books]

In all reality, if the ATF is looking at you for a 922r non-compliance, you are already in pretty serious trouble. The 922r would just be icing on the cake.

[TRT01]

All valid points. So it sounds like there are 2 options:
1. Find BATF documentation of SBR's not requiring to conform to 922r. Print and retain documentation in the unlikely event of an incident where conformity is questioned.

2. Build a grip and 2 other US parts (this is assuming that the cocking knobs count as a part, I'm not sure) document build for compliance in unlikely event where conformity is questioned.

Option 2 is the safer route IMO, but leaves me where I started: trying to figure out what else besides the grip I can fabricate. Mag floor plate and follower have been discussed in the link in the original post. Others possible: trigger? Wire stock? Cocking knobs? Anyone have an experience fabricating any of these?

Maybe I'll also post in the "services wanted" section and see what someone might charge for these items. With SARCO selling parts kits people have to be encountering a similar problem.

[JB Books]

this one





and this one

[TRT01]

The key wording in the 2006 letter, fourth paragraph:
"since 922(r) only addresses the assembly of 'non-sporting' firearms, the lawfaul making of short barrel rifles or shotguns would not be precluded by section 922(r)."

The key wording in the 2009 letter, fifth paragraph:
"Therefore, if you intend to replace parts on a lawfully registered NFA firearm it must still be assembled with less than 10 imported parts of the parts listed in 478.39(c)"

Sounds like you would have been fine in 2006, but someone made the ruling in 2009 that 922(r) did apply to SBR's. Does anyone else have a different interpretation of this?

[partisan50]

I saw one from 2009 that stated specifically if you are building a SBR or SBS from an imported receiver it must be 922R compliant. I will check and see if I saved it.

[TRT01]

Originally Posted by partisan50

I saw one from 2009 that stated specifically if you are building a SBR or SBS from an imported receiver it must be 922R compliant. I will check and see if I saved it.

Please post if you have it, though at this rate I'm concluding compliance is required.

[mountainman]

I can see the possibility of making knobs, bolts, HTS's, and Barrells here in the US. I've never had the parts for one of these in my hands before. How many evil parts this thing has? W

[TRT01]

The link in the first post is from another site and the OP claims the VZ-61 has 14 parts subject to 922r. The us barrel is a given since no foreign ones are available anymore. Mag followers and floorplate were discussed, though
I don't have the skills to fabricate them. I can fab a grip, maybe a trigger, maybe even a wire stock. But there are those more skilled than I that are probably very adept at such things.

[newfalguy101]

The way I read that was:

If you have a legally imported gun in hand and want to SBR it, you are NOT subject to 922

If you are building from a kit, then even if SBR you are subject to 922






course its late and I am not a lawyer or even pretend on TV to be so...........

[TRT01]

I was planning to build from a kit on an import receiver, so I'm almost positive it applies.