Welder - Need Schoolin'

**Bug Tussell** · July 23, 2012, 20:20

I'm thinking about getting a decent all around welder for the farm. Maybe weld some fence tubing, some square tubing. Max width would be 3/8".

Totally clueless on this. Be gentle.

**2barearms** · July 23, 2012, 20:50

I went all out and got a Miller 211 it's 110/220 with an adapter plug
and auto sensing voltage. It will weld 3/8 in a single pass.

I didn't get mine there but it's the one I have.

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/me...FYNx4AodegcAvg

**skeeterbay** · July 23, 2012, 21:16

I have several welders around the place both ac/dc buzz booxes, migs and engine driven stick welders. I have owned Hobarts, Lincoln's, Marquetes and century brand welders over the years. By far I prefer the Miller brand to all others. Whether it be mig or stick welders.

Edited to add: 3/8 stuff and fence work a mig welder would work just fine, but if I am doing something requiring deep penetration I prefer a stick welder. You say farm use so you may want to look at something like an engine driven welder. That would allow you to weld out in the field/woods away from an electrical source. Something like a Miller "bobcat" or "Legend" welder would do what your looking to do and give you the ability to use it as a generator to boot. It's nice to be able to repair something out in the woods without having to bring it back to the shop. Check out the Miller "Bobcat" on thier website I think it produces 10,000 watts as a generator besides being able to weld.

paulb2112 · July 23, 2012, 21:24

Prefer miller aswell. Always get one a little bigger than you think you need.
If you will need aluminum capability it takes more power than same guage steel.
My favorite unit for all around is a miller 252 with a 30amp spool gun and dual bottle rig.
sweet machine.
Remember not to buy a cheap helmet. You eyes will thank you.

SWOHFAL · July 23, 2012, 22:56

Not much of a welder, but the couple times I have, I borrowed a cheap China Freight welder and helmet and found them lacking. The welder wouldn't feed half the time b/c of the stress on the line prevented the wire from spooling freely and the helmet was useless except to tell that the welder was producing an arc.

I had to put down the bead by guess and take frequent peeks. The results were accordingly (lasted only a couple months to keep my guide wheel on a mower deck, but the weld needed much grinding in between beads and was probably fairly hollow, looking more like a toothpaste accident than a row of dimes) and the helmet may be more important than the welder to do acceptable work. Apparently you can get re-conditioned Hobarts for not much more than a China Freight unit.

**Cozmacozmy** · July 24, 2012, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2barearms

I went all out and got a Miller 211 it's 110/220 with an adapter plug
and auto sensing voltage. It will weld 3/8 in a single pass.

I didn't get mine there but it's the one I have.

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/me...FYNx4AodegcAvg

I got the Miller 211 also, makes me a lot better welder then I am. Self taught and have done some amazing welds so far. I can do 3/8" single pass and 1/2" double pass on the 220v setting. It's a bit pricey, and I think they have a smaller model that can save you a few bucks and still be a good all around welder. I use it for car repairs, I welded on a new frame section for my friends 57 Chevy that now has rack & pinion steering and NASCAR style handling along with a 600hp LS3 motor that does low 12sec 1/4 mi. I also do art work with it, but just messing around and getting into it a little.

The hard top is my friends that I welded up, the convert he was commissioned to build an exact copy of the hard top but in a convertible. It has a 450 hp LS2 motor
The hard top has about 100k into it and the convert has about 80k.

This is my entry in the the http://www.artprize.org/

http://www.artprize.org/jeff-allen/2...rown-of-thorns

And a pair of Angel wings I made my wife for when she was sick and in the hospital last year.

Gazz · July 24, 2012, 04:09

If you are working with new material on weldments that do not require great strength, MIG is the way to go. You can be a good welder in just a few hours of messing around with it. Weld prep is important, no oils, grease, paint, rust or scale and proper weld chamfers are advised. A MIG welder can also do a variety of materials, steel, stainless steel, aluminum and bronze with the proper wire and shielding gas. I have one of the Hobart Handler welders that runs on 115VAC and am quite happy with it. I also have an old Lincoln 250 stick welder for use on bigger stuff or things need to be as strong as can be. The variety of welding rods for stick welders make them quite versatile and a good machine for farm use. 6011 rods seem to burn through everything (rust paint etc) and give great penetration making the weld very strong. It is stinky and smokey and there is lots of weld spatter and requires chipping and wire brushing between passes to remove the flux but is good for rock solid welds. I can also do TIG with that machine although it is just scratch start which is tough on the tungsten electrode. Heat control is a bit tougher since it is done at the machine and not with a foot pedal but, it can do good work in a pinch.

**skeeterbay** · July 24, 2012, 07:25

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/enginedriven/

Hopefully this link works. I don't know to many farmers up here or loggers that don't own one or another model of these engine driven welders. You might see one Lincoln engine driven welder on a truck for every 10 Miller around these parts. I have nothing against Lincoln I have two of their buzz boxes right now. I just have better luck with Miller and if I had to have just one for farm use it would be an engine driven one.

I have had my latest Miller engine driven welder since Late 90's, early 2000 and I have never had a single problem with it. I had a tarp company make a water and fire resistant cover for mine. So I do cover it when it's on the truck in bad weather but most guys around here just let them sit out on the truck all year around without issues.

One other thing if you decide on a shop stick welder/buzz box. Get long cables. Nothing worse than getting a big piece of equipment tore down were you can't move it and then finding out your to short on cable to reach the other side. That's another good reason to get an engine driven one. It's portable you can take it where ever your truck or tractor will go. I built a trailer for mine and even tow it behind the ATV when I get somewhere I can't get a truck or tractor into. Also I wouldn't go anything smaller than a Bobcat size for an engine driven welder if it was me. If you get anything smaller your going to out grow it before you start and be disappointed.

Shoots High · July 24, 2012, 07:27

I would recommend Hobart. They are owned by Miller, and some parts are interchangeable. For about $600 you can get a 190 amp machine. That's plenty adequate for most garage welding. I like Blue, but sometimes it's not worth it just to pay for the color.

**Bug Tussell** · July 24, 2012, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoots High

I would recommend Hobart. They are owned by Miller, and some parts are interchangeable. For about $600 you can get a 190 amp machine. That's plenty adequate for most garage welding. I like Blue, but sometimes it's not worth it just to pay for the color.

I like saving money. Which model for $600?

justashooter · July 24, 2012, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazz

6011 rods seem to burn through everything (rust paint etc) and give great penetration making the weld very strong.

if you are working with nothing thinner than 1/8" i would suggest that you buy a used lincoln "buzz box" 225 amp AC only stick welder. it will need 30-50 amps 220 single phase and cost around $100-150 at auction or in the penny saver paper.

learning to stick weld is best done with E-6011, E-6010, E-7014, and E-6013 wires. the first 2 are deep penetrating and will weld right thru rust. they are used in high pressure pipe welding and general repair or structural work with ordinary steel. the other wires are for use on clean steel and will give smooth and strong welds. all four wires can be run flat, uphill, or downhill (6013 & 7014 are perfect for sheet metal downhill). all are commonly found in 1-50 pound packaging.

MIG welding is something you can teach a bare-footed nagger in 15 minutes, but most of the naggers you teach will end up spraying it on like toothpaste and get no "penta-tration". learning to control heat with a MIG is more complicated than the 15 minute lesson. you can fux up wiht MIG and it will look good. not so with stick.

MIG can be done with 200-400 amp 220 single phase machines (2000$-6000$) or with 30 amp 110 volt machines (100$-600$, suitcase welders, limited to 1/8" thickness material).

stick is generally done with leads from 10-100 feet in length, so you can get into just about anywhere with stick. MIG will have 6-10 foot leads so you need to get the machine close.

alphadog58 · July 25, 2012, 13:53

I am a Miller fan also. I have found that, the more I play around at making stuff out of metal, one machine won't do it all for me. I've collected a few machines that will do it all. I bought a used Miller 130, 110V MIG first. It does all my light stuff, sheetmetal, mower decks, any steel up to 3/16". I then found a 70's Miller 330. Its a TIG and stick welder. It's a big old girl, 800lbs. of copper transformers, but it will do a lot. 250 amp TIG, AC, DC with high freq, and a watercooled torch. I do all my fine stuff, firearms stuff, stainless steel and aluminum with it. The stick part goes to 450 amps DC, enough to air gouge with. Its just starting to wake up at 150 amps. Last is a used Miller Bobcat, used for all the reasons stated by skeeterbay.
Larry

**skeeterbay** · July 25, 2012, 15:18

I am not a professional welder and by no means an expert on the subject. I do a lot of low tech welding on tractors, bulldozers, farm equipment and what not. Nothing fancy and I am sure my welds wouldn't pass an xray, but I get stuff stuck together and it seems to stay together even when under very heavy loads. I also have a couple of blacksmith forges and play around at that when my health allows, but again I wouldn't consider myself a blacksmith.

One thing I don't own and have never tried is tig welding. Never even seen it done in person. I understand it's the hardest type of welding there is, don't know just what I have heard. I did see that reciever that GP welded and I was really impressed with his welding. I have seen a couple of rewelded Garands over the years and they were not that good. I spotted the welding right off.

I have always been tempted to pick up a tig welder but I am not sure I have a real use for it. Maybe if I got into building roll cages for UTV's or something like that then I could see me needing one. Then again I am not sure I would be good enough to use one.

Right now if I needed a bolt handle welded on a rifle bolt I would grab a stick of 7018 and go to it.

Shoots High · July 25, 2012, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug Tussell

I like saving money. Which model for $600?

Hobart 190. Just look for the machine that has a maximum output of 190 amps. Most of the farm and ranch supply stores in my area sell them. For the money I think you will get a good machine. I have a Hobart 140 that I have had for years and have put a lot of wire through it. It has given me no trouble at all. It does what I ask it to do.

By the way, my recommendation is based on 40 years in the trade. 10 of which are in teaching weld theory, SMAW, GMAW, SAW, GTAW, oxy fuel welding and brazing at the college level. I am also an AWS CWI. And I'm still going.

alphadog58 · July 27, 2012, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeterbay

I am not a professional welder and by no means an expert on the subject. I do a lot of low tech welding on tractors, bulldozers, farm equipment and what not. Nothing fancy and I am sure my welds wouldn't pass an xray, but I get stuff stuck together and it seems to stay together even when under very heavy loads. I also have a couple of blacksmith forges and play around at that when my health allows, but again I wouldn't consider myself a blacksmith.

One thing I don't own and have never tried is tig welding. Never even seen it done in person. I understand it's the hardest type of welding there is, don't know just what I have heard. I did see that reciever that GP welded and I was really impressed with his welding. I have seen a couple of rewelded Garands over the years and they were not that good. I spotted the welding right off.

I have always been tempted to pick up a tig welder but I am not sure I have a real use for it.

My welds don't look so good sometimes, either, but they hold up. When I was a union carpenter, I got certified on stick welding for a steel pile job. The welding instructor said my welds were "gorilla welds, big, ugly and strong." I passed...
I think TIG welding is not as hard as its made out to be. If you can gas weld (not brazing), you can TIG. You're using a gas shielded arc instead of a chemical flame for your heat source. Its making a puddle with the torch, adding filler, and keeping the puddle moving. No substitute for practice...
Larry

**skeeterbay** · July 27, 2012, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphadog58

My welds don't look so good sometimes, either, but they hold up. When I was a union carpenter, I got certified on stick welding for a steel pile job. The welding instructor said my welds were "gorilla welds, big, ugly and strong." I passed...
I think TIG welding is not as hard as its made out to be. If you can gas weld (not brazing), you can TIG. You're using a gas shielded arc instead of a chemical flame for your heat source. Its making a puddle with the torch, adding filler, and keeping the puddle moving. No substitute for practice...
Larry

That's me gorilla welding!

Next time I swing into my local welding supply I am going to price some Tig welders. If not me then maybe it's something one of my sons could master with some practice.

**Bug Tussell** · August 10, 2012, 21:59

Picked up a Hobart Handler 187 off craiglist. The price was right for the welder and accessories.

That sombitch is heavvy!

Now I got to figure out what the hell I'm doing with it...

**skeeterbay** · August 11, 2012, 10:58

You will be sticking stuff together in no time with it. The more you use it the better you will get.

Your first project can be a nice cart for it with a gas bottle rack.

FUUN063 · August 11, 2012, 18:57

Hmmm.....farm welding you say??

Leland

July 23, 2012, 20:20	#1
Bug Tussell Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 2872 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rusticating USA Posts: 2,425	Welder - Need Schoolin' I'm thinking about getting a decent all around welder for the farm. Maybe weld some fence tubing, some square tubing. Max width would be 3/8". Totally clueless on this. Be gentle. __________________ Make your time

July 23, 2012, 20:50	#2
2barearms 3 Percent Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 13866 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Houston,Texas Posts: 8,642	I went all out and got a Miller 211 it's 110/220 with an adapter plug and auto sensing voltage. It will weld 3/8 in a single pass. I didn't get mine there but it's the one I have. http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/me...FYNx4AodegcAvg __________________ "Owning a Firearm doesn't make you Armed any more than owning a Guitar makes you a Musician" Was mich nicht umbringt macht mich stärker

July 23, 2012, 21:16	#3
skeeterbay Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 20461 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,772	I have several welders around the place both ac/dc buzz booxes, migs and engine driven stick welders. I have owned Hobarts, Lincoln's, Marquetes and century brand welders over the years. By far I prefer the Miller brand to all others. Whether it be mig or stick welders. Edited to add: 3/8 stuff and fence work a mig welder would work just fine, but if I am doing something requiring deep penetration I prefer a stick welder. You say farm use so you may want to look at something like an engine driven welder. That would allow you to weld out in the field/woods away from an electrical source. Something like a Miller "bobcat" or "Legend" welder would do what your looking to do and give you the ability to use it as a generator to boot. It's nice to be able to repair something out in the woods without having to bring it back to the shop. Check out the Miller "Bobcat" on thier website I think it produces 10,000 watts as a generator besides being able to weld. __________________ 'S Rioghal 'Mo Dhream Ard Choille! Last edited by skeeterbay; July 23, 2012 at 21:25.

July 23, 2012, 22:56	#5
SWOHFAL Registered FALaholic #: 34346 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Obamunist-occupied America Posts: 8,355	Not much of a welder, but the couple times I have, I borrowed a cheap China Freight welder and helmet and found them lacking. The welder wouldn't feed half the time b/c of the stress on the line prevented the wire from spooling freely and the helmet was useless except to tell that the welder was producing an arc. I had to put down the bead by guess and take frequent peeks. The results were accordingly (lasted only a couple months to keep my guide wheel on a mower deck, but the weld needed much grinding in between beads and was probably fairly hollow, looking more like a toothpaste accident than a row of dimes) and the helmet may be more important than the welder to do acceptable work. Apparently you can get re-conditioned Hobarts for not much more than a China Freight unit. __________________ Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

July 24, 2012, 04:09	#7
Gazz Registered FALaholic #: 15159 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NH Posts: 1,934	If you are working with new material on weldments that do not require great strength, MIG is the way to go. You can be a good welder in just a few hours of messing around with it. Weld prep is important, no oils, grease, paint, rust or scale and proper weld chamfers are advised. A MIG welder can also do a variety of materials, steel, stainless steel, aluminum and bronze with the proper wire and shielding gas. I have one of the Hobart Handler welders that runs on 115VAC and am quite happy with it. I also have an old Lincoln 250 stick welder for use on bigger stuff or things need to be as strong as can be. The variety of welding rods for stick welders make them quite versatile and a good machine for farm use. 6011 rods seem to burn through everything (rust paint etc) and give great penetration making the weld very strong. It is stinky and smokey and there is lots of weld spatter and requires chipping and wire brushing between passes to remove the flux but is good for rock solid welds. I can also do TIG with that machine although it is just scratch start which is tough on the tungsten electrode. Heat control is a bit tougher since it is done at the machine and not with a foot pedal but, it can do good work in a pinch. __________________ Gazz

July 23, 2012, 21:24	#4
paulb2112 Registered FALaholic #: 65687 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 542	Prefer miller aswell. Always get one a little bigger than you think you need. If you will need aluminum capability it takes more power than same guage steel. My favorite unit for all around is a miller 252 with a 30amp spool gun and dual bottle rig. sweet machine. Remember not to buy a cheap helmet. You eyes will thank you.

July 24, 2012, 07:25	#8
skeeterbay Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 20461 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,772	http://www.millerwelds.com/products/enginedriven/ Hopefully this link works. I don't know to many farmers up here or loggers that don't own one or another model of these engine driven welders. You might see one Lincoln engine driven welder on a truck for every 10 Miller around these parts. I have nothing against Lincoln I have two of their buzz boxes right now. I just have better luck with Miller and if I had to have just one for farm use it would be an engine driven one. I have had my latest Miller engine driven welder since Late 90's, early 2000 and I have never had a single problem with it. I had a tarp company make a water and fire resistant cover for mine. So I do cover it when it's on the truck in bad weather but most guys around here just let them sit out on the truck all year around without issues. One other thing if you decide on a shop stick welder/buzz box. Get long cables. Nothing worse than getting a big piece of equipment tore down were you can't move it and then finding out your to short on cable to reach the other side. That's another good reason to get an engine driven one. It's portable you can take it where ever your truck or tractor will go. I built a trailer for mine and even tow it behind the ATV when I get somewhere I can't get a truck or tractor into. Also I wouldn't go anything smaller than a Bobcat size for an engine driven welder if it was me. If you get anything smaller your going to out grow it before you start and be disappointed. __________________ 'S Rioghal 'Mo Dhream Ard Choille!

July 24, 2012, 07:27	#9
Shoots High previously "powderhead" FALaholic #: 18717 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 668	I would recommend Hobart. They are owned by Miller, and some parts are interchangeable. For about $600 you can get a 190 amp machine. That's plenty adequate for most garage welding. I like Blue, but sometimes it's not worth it just to pay for the color.

July 25, 2012, 13:53	#12
alphadog58 Duke of Yankeedom Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 9405 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: SE CT Posts: 2,376	I am a Miller fan also. I have found that, the more I play around at making stuff out of metal, one machine won't do it all for me. I've collected a few machines that will do it all. I bought a used Miller 130, 110V MIG first. It does all my light stuff, sheetmetal, mower decks, any steel up to 3/16". I then found a 70's Miller 330. Its a TIG and stick welder. It's a big old girl, 800lbs. of copper transformers, but it will do a lot. 250 amp TIG, AC, DC with high freq, and a watercooled torch. I do all my fine stuff, firearms stuff, stainless steel and aluminum with it. The stick part goes to 450 amps DC, enough to air gouge with. Its just starting to wake up at 150 amps. Last is a used Miller Bobcat, used for all the reasons stated by skeeterbay. Larry __________________ "I aim to make mischief." Nathan Fillion in "Serenity". "Man, I know. Ever'body funny, you funny, too." George Thorogood

July 25, 2012, 15:18	#13
skeeterbay Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 20461 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,772	I am not a professional welder and by no means an expert on the subject. I do a lot of low tech welding on tractors, bulldozers, farm equipment and what not. Nothing fancy and I am sure my welds wouldn't pass an xray, but I get stuff stuck together and it seems to stay together even when under very heavy loads. I also have a couple of blacksmith forges and play around at that when my health allows, but again I wouldn't consider myself a blacksmith. One thing I don't own and have never tried is tig welding. Never even seen it done in person. I understand it's the hardest type of welding there is, don't know just what I have heard. I did see that reciever that GP welded and I was really impressed with his welding. I have seen a couple of rewelded Garands over the years and they were not that good. I spotted the welding right off. I have always been tempted to pick up a tig welder but I am not sure I have a real use for it. Maybe if I got into building roll cages for UTV's or something like that then I could see me needing one. Then again I am not sure I would be good enough to use one. Right now if I needed a bolt handle welded on a rifle bolt I would grab a stick of 7018 and go to it. __________________ 'S Rioghal 'Mo Dhream Ard Choille!

August 10, 2012, 21:59	#17
Bug Tussell Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 2872 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rusticating USA Posts: 2,425	Picked up a Hobart Handler 187 off craiglist. The price was right for the welder and accessories. That sombitch is heavvy! Now I got to figure out what the hell I'm doing with it... __________________ Make your time

August 11, 2012, 10:58	#18
skeeterbay Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 20461 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,772	You will be sticking stuff together in no time with it. The more you use it the better you will get. Your first project can be a nice cart for it with a gas bottle rack. __________________ 'S Rioghal 'Mo Dhream Ard Choille!

August 11, 2012, 18:57	#19
FUUN063 Computer Illiterate Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 35576 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Converse, Indiana Posts: 4,568	Hmmm.....farm welding you say?? Leland

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