DHS prepping for war?

45x4 · July 13, 2012, 21:54

Google Homeland Security preparing for Civil War.

A friend of my son, both Marine Corp Sargents, told him he is leaving the service because he suspect something huge is coming down.

The Government just bought 450 MILLION rounds of .40S&W.

Add to the list if you know of something.

NEWFNL1A1 · July 14, 2012, 00:16

Homeland Security seeking assault and sniper rifles

The Department of Homeland Security issued a bid for 36 Colt LE901 rifle systems, which will accept and function any military specification (Mil-Spec) .223 caliber upper receiver, and is thus backwards compatible with all CBP/U.S. Border Patrol M4 upper receivers.

Not surprisingly in this matter is the recent award by DHS, but no solicitation can be found for, .223 caliber Remington Enhanced Performance ammunition. The award states:

“This notice of an award of an Indefinite Delivery Indefinite Quantity contract is being posted in accordance with Federal Acquisition Regulation 5.705 which requires award notices for actions exceeding $500,000. This contract will provide the Department of Homeland Security the necessary .223 Remington Caliber (62-64 grain) Enhanced Performance ammunition for its duration. The period of performance is a base year with 4 one year options commencing on 7/12/2012. “

The award provides the DHS with an unlimited supply of .223 EP ammunition for the next four years.

Colt Manufacturing lists the technical specifications as follows:

MODEL LE901-16S
Caliber .308 Win
Barrel Length (in.) 16.1″ Heavy
Bore 4 Grooves, 1-12″ RH Twist
Front Sight Flip-Up, Adjustable Post for Elevation
Rear Sight Flip-Up, Adjustable for both Windage and Elevation
Extended Length 37.5″
Collapsed Length 34.24″
Weight 9.4 lbs
Action Direct Gas System, Locking Bolt
Finish Matte Black

Defense Review described the Colt 901 as a weapon” which allows the end-user to configure the gun in so many mission-specific ways, it’s almost mind-boggling. ” and that

“The CM901 will provide the military end-user with a select-fire AR platform weapon in any caliber between 5.56mm and 7.62x51mm, … The CM901 Upper Receiver Modularity concept: just change out your upper receiver assembly to re-configure the weapon for the mission, without having to re-zero your weapon and you’re ready to go.”

The 901 is much more than your typical assault rifle. DR continues further in the article, “the operator can change out the 5.56mm CQB-R and instantly go to a .308 rifle [CM901 7.62mm upper] for the counter sniper role, or any situation that requires a designated marksman.“ Thus, allowing the DHS/FEMA foot soldier to go from an assault rifle to picking off “terrorists” at a distance by only changing the upper receiver.

Adding to the extra firepower, is the DHS purchase of the Enhanced Performance ammunition. This ammunition, used by the US Army which made a purchase of 300,000,000 rounds in in 2010, has been described as,

“The 62-grain bullet for the new M855A1 ammo is a completely new design. While it may appear to have a plastic “ballistic tip”, that’s deceiving. M855A1 ammunition ammo EPRThe new bullet created for M855A1 ammo has a bismuth-tin alloy core with a steel “stacked-cone” penetrating tip. The photo at right shows the version from last year; the final production version may be slightly different (e.g. the final version tip is a different color). Apparently the latest bullet design is a winner. During testing, M855A1 ammo performed better than current 7.62mm ball ammunition against certain types of targets. According to Lt. Col. Jeffrey K. Woods, the program’s product manager, the new M855A1 ammo is “the best general purpose 5.56mm round ever produced. A true general purpose round, the M855A1 exceeds the performance of the current M855 against the many different types of targets likely to be encountered in combat.

http://pprnnews.prepperpodcast.com/h...#axzz20XtlOt83

gates · July 14, 2012, 19:03

Old news bro - add in the NDAA, Patriot Act, and all the other E.O.'s that have been recently been signed or have passed with OVERWHELMING BI-PARTISAN support that give FEDGOV the right to take EVERYTHING you possess and dictate EVERY aspect of your life - TPTB KNOW some bad shit is coming and they are scared shitless - I'm thinking race war or civil war, if not that it's WORLD war or a nationwide "Katrina" type event - maybe solar or earth strike event. Any way you look at it our government expect SOMETHING bad - on a national level.

Illurian00 · July 14, 2012, 19:07

And you guys ran off 411man,,,,,,

gates · July 14, 2012, 19:12

Yesterdays tin is today's headline bro - sad to say but true. Much of what 411 was ranting about will be proven out and I NEVER thought I would say that.

Illurian00 · July 14, 2012, 19:53

I got wind of the CF&R & the Tri-lateralz back in the early 70's. I realised such things are are not suitible for polite company. Learn't discretion is the better part,,,and I am,,,mostly ,,,discreet......

gates · July 14, 2012, 20:36

Meh- the interwebs are full of "armchair commando's" and "revolutionaries" - this site is no different. I come here to inform not incite - if the former leads to the latter... then people are waking up.

rowjimmy · July 15, 2012, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gates

Meh- the interwebs are full of "armchair commando's" and "revolutionaries" - this site is no different. ....

I'm more of a couch potato commando, but please, carry on...

**kfranz** · July 16, 2012, 16:35

So, what's the feds standard method of contracting for ammo? Is that for DHS only, or are other agencies part of the award. Did they really "purchase" 450 million rounds, or did the contract set up the ability to purchase up to 450 million rounds at a set price?

Decent questions that a fella ought to know an answer to prior to adding another layer of foil. But hey, don't let me ruin the speculation. 50 years from now when most of us are taking the dirt nap because we ate like shit and the remaining 200 million rounds are surplused out to our kids and grandkids at 8 cents a round, nobody here will care.

NEWFNL1A1 · July 16, 2012, 19:28

http://theintelhub.com/2012/07/15/pr...mo-since-2009/

rowjimmy · July 16, 2012, 19:40

Hmmm, if they utilize "enhanced performance" .223 against the populace, wouldn't they be guilty of war crimes? Shouldn't they have to use FMJ via the Hague accords?

At least they won't torture anybody, waterboarding is just a little discomfort for the subject...

**kfranz** · July 16, 2012, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWFNL1A1

http://theintelhub.com/2012/07/15/pr...mo-since-2009/

More additional details that offer an explanation. Believe it or not.
http://westmoreland.house.gov/index....642&Itemid=372

My quick look around leads me to believe that CBP will shoot approx. 25 million rounds per year.

**rochte** · July 16, 2012, 21:48

They bought thousands of rounds of .45 LC? And 28 gauge shells, etc? WTF?

rowjimmy · July 16, 2012, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfranz

More additional details that offer an explanation. Believe it or not.
http://westmoreland.house.gov/index....642&Itemid=372

My quick look around leads me to believe that CBP will shoot approx. 25 million rounds per year.

I call bullshit on the numbers...many of those employees are desk jockeys. Training several times a year? I bet most don't shoot more than 100 rounds per year, not 1,300.

I, on the other hand, have burned thorugh 4k of pistol ammo so far this season and I'm trying to be conservative.

Maybe I could get a job with DHS and help them shoot their ammo.

**kfranz** · July 16, 2012, 23:14

Well thanks for that. How many are desk jockeys? Do they not shoot at all, or just less than the others? What constitutes training? What's the annual number of rounds for qualification? Does it vary by agency or job description?

Baseless speculation sure is more exciting though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowjimmy

I call bullshit on the numbers...many of those employees are desk jockeys. Training several times a year? I bet most don't shoot more than 100 rounds per year, not 1,300.

I, on the other hand, have burned thorugh 4k of pistol ammo so far this season and I'm trying to be conservative.

Maybe I could get a job with DHS and help them shoot their ammo.

rowjimmy · July 17, 2012, 07:14

I don't think my speculation is baseless.

Blind acceptance of your representative's press release is a much better choice...

**kfranz** · July 17, 2012, 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowjimmy

I don't think my speculation is baseless.

Blind acceptance of your representative's press release is a much better choice...

What's it based on?

Don't believe only those that tell you what you want to hear. Be curious to see how many of the 450 million rounds that COULD be purchased over the next 5 years actually are.

rowjimmy · July 17, 2012, 08:15

Perhaps we will just need to wait and see.

STGThndr · July 20, 2012, 06:13

Who uses the S&W .40 short and weak? If government were stockin up, wouldnt it be 9mmP? That's one hell of a lot of .40 cal. It would be a great execution round, you know, prisoner on his or her knees, base of the skull where the spine enters the brain.. Many Im sure have seen the learning charts the German einsatzgruppen and their Wehrmacht pals used to identify the best way to put someone down. Next to a trench for easy disposal.

**W.E.G.** · July 20, 2012, 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochte

They bought thousands of rounds of .45 LC? And 28 gauge shells, etc? WTF?

**skeeterbay** · July 20, 2012, 08:55

I don't want to mess with anyones tinfoil hat but I think what you are seeing is a standardization of caliber for sidearms. Back years ago you had several different agency that are now part of Homeland Securtiy and they all shot different guns and calibers. Back then certiain personal owned weapons were also approved for use in some agencies.

Truthfully it was a real mess. I have worked shifts were I was armed with a Sig P220 45acp, two others had Ruger Security sixes one a 3 inch and the other a 4 inch, one old timer carried a S&W 41Mag revolver and several guys had S&W 9mm's, oh and one guy had a HK 9mm with the sqaueeze handle on the front, (I forget the model I am not into HK's). That was just one shift in one office. Long guns avalible ranged from M16's, M-4's, Styer's and one agency even had some old M14's. You should have seen the different brands of shotguns!

I don't think any of those agencies allow personal weapons approval anymore and I think most are going to the 40cal in some form or another. So I think that's what your seeing. As far as the amount of ammo in the contract I can say except that Homeland Security is pretty big from my understanding.

As far as qualification goes back when I was in we qualified every three months and we did both night and day fire. We had standard targets and later on we did steel and multi targets. We had one firearms trainer that was always looking to improve shooting and make things more interesting and he even got old bowling pins from a former bowling alley and we practiced head shooting multiple pins. To add to the ammo used in qualifcation, back in the day they would issue you out a couple of boxes when you needed it for practice off duty and for local competitions. Plus your duty carry ammo and spare boxes for you vehicle and a couple in you locker back at the office. One other note if you choose to use a personal weapon you had to provide your own ammo from an appproved list. No handloads for practice. I was buying 45 Fed Hydrshocks by the cases. No goverment discount. The only way the government bought you any ammo was if you picked the issue caliber for you agency.

STGThndr · July 20, 2012, 09:31

So you have worked for the fat-man. What is it that requires that HS people be armed? Does it make rounding up and "resettling" them in concentration camps easier? I see the bullets are to be hollow-point, the better to blow their minds!

357ross · July 20, 2012, 10:38

None of this is surprising as dhs was set up to contain 'we the sheep'.

crcksht · July 20, 2012, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by STGThndr

Who uses the S&W .40 short and weak?.............

At least half of the cops in the country.

If you don't have the balls to outright ban all ammo sales, what better way to limit the quantity available on the market than to just buy up as much as possible?

**skeeterbay** · July 20, 2012, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by STGThndr

So you have worked for the fat-man. What is it that requires that HS people be armed? Does it make rounding up and "resettling" them in concentration camps easier? I see the bullets are to be hollow-point, the better to blow their minds!

I have worked for three different agency's over the years one of which was brought into Homeland Securtiy when it was formed. I retired a couple of months after my agency became one of many within the Dept of Homeland Security. So to answer your first quesstion I never really worked for HS as it was still being phased in when I retired.

As for your second question you show very little knowlege of what your talking about. You really need to look up what agencies were combined under the DHS when President Bush formed the Dept. Just to name a couple there was the Border Patrol, INS, and US Customs. Those agencies were all carrying weapons long before the formation of DHS. Do you think the Border Patrol and Custom agents just started carrying weapons when DHS was formed? Are you aware that back in the 70's there was a sky marshal program and that US Customs ran that program. Long before the formation of todays air marshals Customs agents were armed on international flights for sky jacking purposes. Do you have any idea how long the Border Patrol has been arming their agents. Would you like to put unarmed Border Patrolman on duty chasing armed drug smugglers from Mexico?

Just for the record. My PERSONAL belief is that DHS was not needed. Those agencies worked just fine WHEN allowed to do their job without forming a huge expensive agency like DHS. But again that is my personal opinion. Also for the record I don't know why they bought all that 40 cal. I said I think it's because of standardization. "I THINK" I have no inside info of any kind and I have never walked back into one of my old offices since I retired. I guess your theory of rounding up people into concentration camps is just as good as mine.

As for remarks about rounding up people. I have NEVER EVER heard anything like that while I worked for any government agency, believe it or not. As far as HP ammo is concerned HP ammo has been used for many years. I recall working with some agents from another agency and they were carring 357mag with 110 grain remington HP. I thought that was really odd. The agents told me that it was because in crowded areas such as airports and what not they did not want a shoot thru. Sounded plausable to me but maybe not for you I don't know. Maybe banging away inside a crowded building with FMJ would be better, I don't know. I remember back when I started in LE we carried 18 rounds of 38 in a Smith revolver with lead bullets.

One further note. When DHS was formed President Bush hired huge amounts of new people for all these agencies. The Border Patrol had a hiring frenzy and so did Customs not to mention all the others. Some places went from three man offices to 17 or 20 man offices. I know one office that was sent 40 new officers? (see why I don't feel we needed the DHS. All that additional money spent to do the same job that was being done before for a lot less).

Anyway, That had to increase the need for rounds a lot! I don't know what they do at the acedemy now but in my day we shot every day at least two hours a day for weeks and weeks. I am a gun guy and I like to shoot but to tell you the truth I got dang sick of shooting down there. It got old and boring running the same old drills. I couldn't even guess how much ammo we used for my class and now days they have thousands more people and I can only guess they are using thousands and thousands of more rounds both at the academy and back at the home offices.

Again I have no inside knowlege of any of this it's just my personal opinion about why they wanted so much 40 cal ammo. If you think it's more reasonable to assume they needed it to round up people for concentration camps then what can I say. As for me I kind of think the large contract is for the reason I mentioned.

crcksht · July 20, 2012, 14:45

Let's do a little math before we get hysterical.

As of 2008 there were approximately 708,000 federal agents among all of the agencies.

450 million rounds/708,000 agents = 635 rounds per agent
Undoutedly there are more agents today, so the rounds per agents would be even less.

That's hardly enough for a day at the range, lol.

jugrunner · July 20, 2012, 18:09

I'm only concerned about how many rnds I have ...

STGThndr · July 21, 2012, 08:11

Thank you for the cogent and helpful perspective. I have a long-held belief in the tyrannical intent of all government. Runs in the family. Never lost any bets on the negative intentions of power.
It is easy to see that we need to arm and train a lot of troops for Border security.. where ARE they? Ive seen a subtle change in police work, particularly traffic. Use to be, the visible presence of a patrol car slowed down traffic. These days the officers ride around and attempt to blend in with the civil population, the better catch and ticket...
Anyway.. it never hurts to distrust govt.. "I'm here from the govt and we want to help you"... Of course Ive known that customs, Border agents, drug interdiction, sky marshals etc etc have carried weapons. I hadnt heard that all agencies are going to the .40- if so more power to em, it's a good round and easy to shoot well and reload also.. Just don't arrest agents who shoot in line of duty or throw them in jail.
Skeeterbey, I thank you for addressing these issues, some of it has been on the net and chatted around shops and stores who cater mostly to a certain type of man...

EinheitElf · July 21, 2012, 10:15

Well I guess the DHS is also trying to catch up with the arms and ammo that the sheepl own... now if there would be blatant crap going on and the CITIZENS would organize and say... Oh No You Dont! fuuuuuuuuuk you! I think they would have a guerilla war on their hands...

I smell something stirring but when where how long from now,etc... cant say...

Plus being in the shithole of PRK it will happen here sooner-make gun owners criminals.. the pos critters in sacramento are already at it... latest is we will have to register shotguns and rifles like handguns in 2014 -guess I better buy a lot of receivers before then...if we dont have crazy crap happen this december..- and they are lumping a bunch of crap into a title 'conversion kits' so could mean parts kits, mags, folding stocks, etc.

Oh well, sorry I diverted, back on topic....

**GSP228** · July 21, 2012, 13:33

FedGov was scared to death they were going to have a SHTF situation Jan. 20, 2009. DSS agents alone were burning through 2,500 rounds per day EACH in training for that. If DHS thinks that there is going to be a complete nationwide meltdown that they are going to have to deal with, I'm surprised they haven't ordered a lot more ammo than they have.

Shoots High · July 21, 2012, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by crcksht

Let's do a little math before we get hysterical.

As of 2008 there were approximately 708,000 federal agents among all of the agencies.

450 million rounds/708,000 agents = 635 rounds per agent
Undoutedly there are more agents today, so the rounds per agents would be even less.

That's hardly enough for a day at the range, lol.

Roughly 350,000,000/708,000 means that roughly 1 out of every 500 people is a federal agent. Someone check my math, because that just ain't right somehow.

**Gary Harwell** · July 21, 2012, 18:46

I am taking a second look at people I know, I have a medium clientele base in my business, and in retrospect i do have about 1 LEO/including fed for every 400-500 peeps. Wow! And nothing sets me to draw them, there just there.

**skeeterbay** · July 21, 2012, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoots High

Roughly 350,000,000/708,000 means that roughly 1 out of every 500 people is a federal agent. Someone check my math, because that just ain't right somehow.

I don't know how many people DHS employs but if the figure is actually 708,000 and I am shocked if it is. Then I would guess that is the total number of employees counting clerks, and non armed personal. Again I am just guessing at this I have no figures but I would think armed agents would be much less then 708,000. Way less! which would make sense as I can assure you we used more than 630 rounds per year per officer in my agency. That would also allow for factoring in what the acedemy uses for ammo which has to be way more than field office use. I really honestly got sick of shooting that's how much we did at the acedemy. but you have to remember you have people being hired from all walks of life and people had different shooting skill levels. Some people had never handled a gun before while others had many years of shooting in the military, other agencies, hunters etc.

I knew the DHS was huge compared to the old individual agencies but if the figure of 708,000 employees is correct it's way bigger than I ever realized.

**kfranz** · July 21, 2012, 19:06

Just a reminder boys and girls, the gov DID NOT buy 450 million rounds of fo-tay. They COULD buy up to that OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS.

We now return you to your speculation.

FAL freek · July 22, 2012, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illurian00

And you guys ran off 411man,,,,,,

Captain obvious hasn't been on any sites lately. Guess he got locked back up again. I'm still waiting for those multiple attacks from foreigners he said were gonna happen and still haven't found any of those detention camps he said were everywhere.

ALL FAL · August 05, 2012, 01:45

Sorry FalFreak, there are camps set up all over the country, some with armed foreign soldiers. Just look up FEMA camps.

**Andy the Aussie** · August 05, 2012, 03:59

wow....some folks tinfoil and knickers really are knotted up.....

**StG58Freak** · August 05, 2012, 07:31

My response to this was to buy Twinkies, lots and lots of Twinkies. A friend told me to buy gold but i can't eat gold so i bought Twinkies. I learned from a credible source, Peter Griffin, that Twinkies will even survive an all out nuclear attack. The DHS is buying so much ammo because most of the people working for them are terrible shots. I shot beside a few at the local range and even the FBI guys were laughing at them.

BTW: Twinkies is a registered Trademark of the Hostess co.

**L Haney** · August 05, 2012, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by StG58Freak

I shot beside a few at the local range and even the FBI guys were laughing at them.

This is just TOO good!

July 13, 2012, 21:54	#1
45x4 Registered FALaholic #: 18539 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: idaho Posts: 261	DHS prepping for war? Google Homeland Security preparing for Civil War. A friend of my son, both Marine Corp Sargents, told him he is leaving the service because he suspect something huge is coming down. The Government just bought 450 MILLION rounds of .40S&W. Add to the list if you know of something. __________________ Those who beat their swords into plow shares, will end up plowing for those who didn't. Ben Franklin.

July 14, 2012, 00:16	#2
NEWFNL1A1 Out standing in his field Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 43401 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tx Posts: 3,214	Additional..... Homeland Security seeking assault and sniper rifles The Department of Homeland Security issued a bid for 36 Colt LE901 rifle systems, which will accept and function any military specification (Mil-Spec) .223 caliber upper receiver, and is thus backwards compatible with all CBP/U.S. Border Patrol M4 upper receivers. Not surprisingly in this matter is the recent award by DHS, but no solicitation can be found for, .223 caliber Remington Enhanced Performance ammunition. The award states: “This notice of an award of an Indefinite Delivery Indefinite Quantity contract is being posted in accordance with Federal Acquisition Regulation 5.705 which requires award notices for actions exceeding $500,000. This contract will provide the Department of Homeland Security the necessary .223 Remington Caliber (62-64 grain) Enhanced Performance ammunition for its duration. The period of performance is a base year with 4 one year options commencing on 7/12/2012. “ The award provides the DHS with an unlimited supply of .223 EP ammunition for the next four years. Colt Manufacturing lists the technical specifications as follows: MODEL LE901-16S Caliber .308 Win Barrel Length (in.) 16.1″ Heavy Bore 4 Grooves, 1-12″ RH Twist Front Sight Flip-Up, Adjustable Post for Elevation Rear Sight Flip-Up, Adjustable for both Windage and Elevation Extended Length 37.5″ Collapsed Length 34.24″ Weight 9.4 lbs Action Direct Gas System, Locking Bolt Finish Matte Black Defense Review described the Colt 901 as a weapon” which allows the end-user to configure the gun in so many mission-specific ways, it’s almost mind-boggling. ” and that “The CM901 will provide the military end-user with a select-fire AR platform weapon in any caliber between 5.56mm and 7.62x51mm, … The CM901 Upper Receiver Modularity concept: just change out your upper receiver assembly to re-configure the weapon for the mission, without having to re-zero your weapon and you’re ready to go.” The 901 is much more than your typical assault rifle. DR continues further in the article, “the operator can change out the 5.56mm CQB-R and instantly go to a .308 rifle [CM901 7.62mm upper] for the counter sniper role, or any situation that requires a designated marksman.“ Thus, allowing the DHS/FEMA foot soldier to go from an assault rifle to picking off “terrorists” at a distance by only changing the upper receiver. Adding to the extra firepower, is the DHS purchase of the Enhanced Performance ammunition. This ammunition, used by the US Army which made a purchase of 300,000,000 rounds in in 2010, has been described as, “The 62-grain bullet for the new M855A1 ammo is a completely new design. While it may appear to have a plastic “ballistic tip”, that’s deceiving. M855A1 ammunition ammo EPRThe new bullet created for M855A1 ammo has a bismuth-tin alloy core with a steel “stacked-cone” penetrating tip. The photo at right shows the version from last year; the final production version may be slightly different (e.g. the final version tip is a different color). Apparently the latest bullet design is a winner. During testing, M855A1 ammo performed better than current 7.62mm ball ammunition against certain types of targets. According to Lt. Col. Jeffrey K. Woods, the program’s product manager, the new M855A1 ammo is “the best general purpose 5.56mm round ever produced. A true general purpose round, the M855A1 exceeds the performance of the current M855 against the many different types of targets likely to be encountered in combat. http://pprnnews.prepperpodcast.com/h...#axzz20XtlOt83 __________________ Neo-Luddite - Traigo Mi Cuarenta y Cinco - Inch Guy I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many hours on Call of Duty.

July 16, 2012, 19:28	#10
NEWFNL1A1 Out standing in his field Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 43401 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tx Posts: 3,214	additional details..... http://theintelhub.com/2012/07/15/pr...mo-since-2009/ __________________ Neo-Luddite - Traigo Mi Cuarenta y Cinco - Inch Guy I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many hours on Call of Duty.

July 20, 2012, 06:13	#19
STGThndr Registered FALaholic #: 14583 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern Colorado mtns and desert Posts: 3,409	Who uses the S&W .40 short and weak? If government were stockin up, wouldnt it be 9mmP? That's one hell of a lot of .40 cal. It would be a great execution round, you know, prisoner on his or her knees, base of the skull where the spine enters the brain.. Many Im sure have seen the learning charts the German einsatzgruppen and their Wehrmacht pals used to identify the best way to put someone down. Next to a trench for easy disposal. __________________ Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B Yeats

July 20, 2012, 08:55	#21
skeeterbay Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 20461 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,772	I don't want to mess with anyones tinfoil hat but I think what you are seeing is a standardization of caliber for sidearms. Back years ago you had several different agency that are now part of Homeland Securtiy and they all shot different guns and calibers. Back then certiain personal owned weapons were also approved for use in some agencies. Truthfully it was a real mess. I have worked shifts were I was armed with a Sig P220 45acp, two others had Ruger Security sixes one a 3 inch and the other a 4 inch, one old timer carried a S&W 41Mag revolver and several guys had S&W 9mm's, oh and one guy had a HK 9mm with the sqaueeze handle on the front, (I forget the model I am not into HK's). That was just one shift in one office. Long guns avalible ranged from M16's, M-4's, Styer's and one agency even had some old M14's. You should have seen the different brands of shotguns! I don't think any of those agencies allow personal weapons approval anymore and I think most are going to the 40cal in some form or another. So I think that's what your seeing. As far as the amount of ammo in the contract I can say except that Homeland Security is pretty big from my understanding. As far as qualification goes back when I was in we qualified every three months and we did both night and day fire. We had standard targets and later on we did steel and multi targets. We had one firearms trainer that was always looking to improve shooting and make things more interesting and he even got old bowling pins from a former bowling alley and we practiced head shooting multiple pins. To add to the ammo used in qualifcation, back in the day they would issue you out a couple of boxes when you needed it for practice off duty and for local competitions. Plus your duty carry ammo and spare boxes for you vehicle and a couple in you locker back at the office. One other note if you choose to use a personal weapon you had to provide your own ammo from an appproved list. No handloads for practice. I was buying 45 Fed Hydrshocks by the cases. No goverment discount. The only way the government bought you any ammo was if you picked the issue caliber for you agency. __________________ 'S Rioghal 'Mo Dhream Ard Choille!

July 14, 2012, 19:03	#3
gates Registered FALaholic #: 129 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: phx az Posts: 10,344	Old news bro - add in the NDAA, Patriot Act, and all the other E.O.'s that have been recently been signed or have passed with OVERWHELMING BI-PARTISAN support that give FEDGOV the right to take EVERYTHING you possess and dictate EVERY aspect of your life - TPTB KNOW some bad shit is coming and they are scared shitless - I'm thinking race war or civil war, if not that it's WORLD war or a nationwide "Katrina" type event - maybe solar or earth strike event. Any way you look at it our government expect SOMETHING bad - on a national level.

July 14, 2012, 19:07	#4
Illurian00 Registered FALaholic #: 28599 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,414	And you guys ran off 411man,,,,,,

July 14, 2012, 19:12	#5
gates Registered FALaholic #: 129 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: phx az Posts: 10,344	Yesterdays tin is today's headline bro - sad to say but true. Much of what 411 was ranting about will be proven out and I NEVER thought I would say that.

July 14, 2012, 19:53	#6
Illurian00 Registered FALaholic #: 28599 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,414	I got wind of the CF&R & the Tri-lateralz back in the early 70's. I realised such things are are not suitible for polite company. Learn't discretion is the better part,,,and I am,,,mostly ,,,discreet......

July 14, 2012, 20:36	#7
gates Registered FALaholic #: 129 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: phx az Posts: 10,344	Meh- the interwebs are full of "armchair commando's" and "revolutionaries" - this site is no different. I come here to inform not incite - if the former leads to the latter... then people are waking up.

July 16, 2012, 16:35	#9
kfranz Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 101 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 3,627	So, what's the feds standard method of contracting for ammo? Is that for DHS only, or are other agencies part of the award. Did they really "purchase" 450 million rounds, or did the contract set up the ability to purchase up to 450 million rounds at a set price? Decent questions that a fella ought to know an answer to prior to adding another layer of foil. But hey, don't let me ruin the speculation. 50 years from now when most of us are taking the dirt nap because we ate like shit and the remaining 200 million rounds are surplused out to our kids and grandkids at 8 cents a round, nobody here will care.

July 16, 2012, 19:40	#11
rowjimmy Registered FALaholic #: 21662 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central PA Posts: 3,422	Hmmm, if they utilize "enhanced performance" .223 against the populace, wouldn't they be guilty of war crimes? Shouldn't they have to use FMJ via the Hague accords? At least they won't torture anybody, waterboarding is just a little discomfort for the subject...

July 16, 2012, 21:48	#13
rochte Veteran Member Contributor FALaholic #: 16305 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Grosse Pointe, MI Posts: 1,406	They bought thousands of rounds of .45 LC? And 28 gauge shells, etc? WTF?

July 17, 2012, 07:14	#16
rowjimmy Registered FALaholic #: 21662 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central PA Posts: 3,422	I don't think my speculation is baseless. Blind acceptance of your representative's press release is a much better choice...

July 17, 2012, 08:15	#18
rowjimmy Registered FALaholic #: 21662 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central PA Posts: 3,422	Perhaps we will just need to wait and see.

July 20, 2012, 09:31	#22
STGThndr Registered FALaholic #: 14583 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern Colorado mtns and desert Posts: 3,409	Skeeterbey So you have worked for the fat-man. What is it that requires that HS people be armed? Does it make rounding up and "resettling" them in concentration camps easier? I see the bullets are to be hollow-point, the better to blow their minds! __________________ Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B Yeats

July 20, 2012, 10:38	#23
357ross Registered FALaholic #: 47543 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 1,640	None of this is surprising as dhs was set up to contain 'we the sheep'.

July 20, 2012, 14:45	#26
crcksht Registered FALaholic #: 15315 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Volunteer State Posts: 1,159	Let's do a little math before we get hysterical. As of 2008 there were approximately 708,000 federal agents among all of the agencies. 450 million rounds/708,000 agents = 635 rounds per agent Undoutedly there are more agents today, so the rounds per agents would be even less. That's hardly enough for a day at the range, lol. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -- George Washington "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms." "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms..." -- Richard Henry Lee - Senator, First Congress "I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people." (Elliott, Debates, 425-426) --George Mason

July 20, 2012, 18:09	#27
jugrunner Registered FALaholic #: 19911 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 4,376	I'm only concerned about how many rnds I have ... __________________ ... ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ... _____________________________________________ "Remember man as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare for death and follow me." _____________________________________________ one of the proud "unwashed" ...

July 21, 2012, 08:11	#28
STGThndr Registered FALaholic #: 14583 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern Colorado mtns and desert Posts: 3,409	Skeeter Thank you for the cogent and helpful perspective. I have a long-held belief in the tyrannical intent of all government. Runs in the family. Never lost any bets on the negative intentions of power. It is easy to see that we need to arm and train a lot of troops for Border security.. where ARE they? Ive seen a subtle change in police work, particularly traffic. Use to be, the visible presence of a patrol car slowed down traffic. These days the officers ride around and attempt to blend in with the civil population, the better catch and ticket... Anyway.. it never hurts to distrust govt.. "I'm here from the govt and we want to help you"... Of course Ive known that customs, Border agents, drug interdiction, sky marshals etc etc have carried weapons. I hadnt heard that all agencies are going to the .40- if so more power to em, it's a good round and easy to shoot well and reload also.. Just don't arrest agents who shoot in line of duty or throw them in jail. Skeeterbey, I thank you for addressing these issues, some of it has been on the net and chatted around shops and stores who cater mostly to a certain type of man... __________________ Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B Yeats

July 21, 2012, 10:15	#29
EinheitElf Registered FALaholic #: 21533 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kommiefornia Posts: 2,185	Well I guess the DHS is also trying to catch up with the arms and ammo that the sheepl own... now if there would be blatant crap going on and the CITIZENS would organize and say... Oh No You Dont! fuuuuuuuuuk you! I think they would have a guerilla war on their hands... I smell something stirring but when where how long from now,etc... cant say... Plus being in the shithole of PRK it will happen here sooner-make gun owners criminals.. the pos critters in sacramento are already at it... latest is we will have to register shotguns and rifles like handguns in 2014 -guess I better buy a lot of receivers before then...if we dont have crazy crap happen this december..- and they are lumping a bunch of crap into a title 'conversion kits' so could mean parts kits, mags, folding stocks, etc. Oh well, sorry I diverted, back on topic.... __________________ http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ue_stealth.gif

July 21, 2012, 13:33	#30
GSP228 Senior Member Contributor FALaholic #: 13887 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: SW GA Posts: 793	FedGov was scared to death they were going to have a SHTF situation Jan. 20, 2009. DSS agents alone were burning through 2,500 rounds per day EACH in training for that. If DHS thinks that there is going to be a complete nationwide meltdown that they are going to have to deal with, I'm surprised they haven't ordered a lot more ammo than they have. __________________ Mr. Personality

July 21, 2012, 18:46	#32
Gary Harwell Becoming Embittered Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 39460 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: AzTex Posts: 883	I am taking a second look at people I know, I have a medium clientele base in my business, and in retrospect i do have about 1 LEO/including fed for every 400-500 peeps. Wow! And nothing sets me to draw them, there just there.

July 21, 2012, 19:06	#34
kfranz Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 101 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 3,627	Just a reminder boys and girls, the gov DID NOT buy 450 million rounds of fo-tay. They COULD buy up to that OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS. We now return you to your speculation.

August 05, 2012, 01:45	#36
ALL FAL Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 24447 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,178	Sorry FalFreak, there are camps set up all over the country, some with armed foreign soldiers. Just look up FEMA camps. __________________ The Future is ALWAYS Open!! An ARMED society is a POLITE society.

August 05, 2012, 07:31	#38
StG58Freak banned Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 21043 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Behind You. Posts: 2,332	My response to this was to buy Twinkies, lots and lots of Twinkies. A friend told me to buy gold but i can't eat gold so i bought Twinkies. I learned from a credible source, Peter Griffin, that Twinkies will even survive an all out nuclear attack. The DHS is buying so much ammo because most of the people working for them are terrible shots. I shot beside a few at the local range and even the FBI guys were laughing at them. BTW: Twinkies is a registered Trademark of the Hostess co.

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