Colt Gold Cup Question

[rowjimmy]

Alright 1911 gurus, a friend of mine is selling a Colt Gold Cup National Match for $650. The bottom receiver has been refinished in what appears to be a jeweled/chrome looking thing. It comes in the original box and with the pamphlet they give you.

I think it was prior to the 70 series guns. I'm interested in purchasing this for CCW and shooting IDPA. It has a target rear sight with a roll pin holding it in place )I've heard they can back out but this one is supposedly slightly bent) It has a 5 digit serial number in the range 15XXX-NM

He let me shoot it and it was very accurate with his handloads. I literally shot a 1" group freestyle at 20 yds. I have to get used to the grip angle as I'm used to shooting my Glock. It did fail to cycle once or twice, but I think that could have been the lead nose reloads. I'm a little concerned that the mags don't drop free when you hit the release but he said there are other manufacture mags that will. The gun seems really tight. He has recently started shootign IDPA and is primarily a Bulls eye shooter.

Can you guys tell me anything about this 1911? Good/bad/indifferent? It seems like a good price, but I could only find the 70 series online and this only says Gold Cup, National Match on the side. Is this pistol going to suit my intended purposes? Are the parts GI compatible or does Colt use specialized sizes/pins, etc...

Forgive my ignorance.

Thanks,
RJ

[SWOHFAL]

Parts are GI compatible, but probably will be somewhat oversized for a tighter fit. I wouldn't CCW it and the target sight is clunky for that purpose.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by rowjimmy

Alright 1911 gurus, a friend of mine is selling a Colt Gold Cup National Match for $650. The bottom receiver has been refinished in what appears to be a jeweled/chrome looking thing.

Can you guys tell me anything about this 1911? Good/bad/indifferent?

Should go well with an artfully-done "grille" and 24" rims.

[nwobhm]

Jeweled chrome thing..... Pass. Find something else.

[MAINER]

Yeah, the "jeweled chrome" bling would set me off too! Why do people do this stuff to nice guns?

The Colt rear sight was a problem on these, but it appears this one has been fixed.

I'd agree with SWOHFAL, it's not the best choice for a CCW.

I'd buy the thing and figure out how to deal with the "Bling" later.

Ask the owner about his handloads, and what recoil spring ratings are in the pistol.
You may need to buy new 16#~18# recoil springs and an extra-power firing pin springs if you will be shooting full power defense loads.

[NEWFNL1A1]

Lots of hardball tends to loosen the front sight as well, even with heavy springs and a buffer...shot 2 off myself. I would want the front sight silver soldered if it was for CCW. BTW, I stuck one into the small of my back (mexican carry) to check the car one night and the front edge of the sight ramp gouged me pretty good...yeah, ok..my jeans were tighter back then....but the point is, lots of sharp edges on a GC.

[MAINER]

Originally Posted by NEWFNL1A1

Lots of hardball tends to loosen the front sight as well, even with heavy springs and a buffer...shot 2 off myself. I would want the front sight silver soldered if it was for CCW. BTW, I stuck one into the small of my back (mexican carry) to check the car one night and the front edge of the sight ramp gouged me pretty good...yeah, ok..my jeans were tighter back then....but the point is, lots of sharp edges on a GC.

Good thing ya' stuck it in the BACK position, not the FRONT position.

[rowjimmy]

Thanks guys. Honestly, the "chromed" lower receiver doens't look all that bad. It's a bit fancier than I care for, but the two tone finish isn't ugly or gawdy. It's more of a shiny nickel instead of a satin nickel finish. Chrome may not have been the best choice of description.

I shot the front sight loose on a Charles Daley I used to have too.

I believe the handloads were close to full power as he was using it for IDPA and knows about power factor. Also, it had stout recoil when I shot it, they weren't powder puff or cowboy loads.

So, is it a steel at $650 even if I want to flip it for something else? The one's I saw on gunbroker were all around $1100 or so, but they were clearly indicated as 70 series, I think this may be pre-70 series.

I kept telling myself I wanted to make Master in SSP before I got a CDP division gun, but I do like the 1911.

[chet]

Assuming important metal has not been cleaved off somewhere and it is not shot out, 650 doesn't sound bad at all. That sounds like a "priced to move" number to me. The fact that the guy is running in shooting game circles and is selling his gun below market is a bit of flag to me and I would check the gun thoroughly. The fact that it failed to cycle a couple times (within the span of a few mags?) and the mag didn't drop free is another couple of red flags. Lead reloads shouldnt be an issue for a 1911. If anything, it sounds like a bad mag. If I was selling a gun and was allowing my buyer to shoot first, i would make sure I had good ammo and a good mag in the gun. Certainly, he would too unless the gun has issues he cannot resolve or was expecting to get rid of both a gun and a mag he didn't want. Kinda chincy on his part.

Xavier has great thoughts on checking used 1911's:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/s.../1911%20Basics

[shlomo]

On a more serious note, I agree with Chet. If you can live with the appearance (I like black-over-silver myself), and the gun shoots, it's a very good deal. Barring frame cracks, most anything in a GM can be replaced or repaired for under 200 bucks. Most things a lot less.

Replace the roll pin with a solid pin. Standard procedure and simple. Then go shoot it and congratulate yourself on having an adjustable-sighted GM that drives tacks and didn't cost three grand to get it that way.

[rowjimmy]

Originally Posted by chet

Assuming important metal has not been cleaved off somewhere and it is not shot out, 650 doesn't sound bad at all. That sounds like a "priced to move" number to me. The fact that the guy is running in shooting game circles and is selling his gun below market is a bit of flag to me and I would check the gun thoroughly. The fact that it failed to cycle a couple times (within the span of a few mags?) and the mag didn't drop free is another couple of red flags. Lead reloads shouldnt be an issue for a 1911. If anything, it sounds like a bad mag. If I was selling a gun and was allowing my buyer to shoot first, i would make sure I had good ammo and a good mag in the gun. Certainly, he would too unless the gun has issues he cannot resolve or was expecting to get rid of both a gun and a mag he didn't want. Kinda chincy on his part.

Xavier has great thoughts on checking used 1911's:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/s.../1911%20Basics

I'd consider him a friend. He hadn't even shot the gun, just detail cleaned it and reassembled it. He has plenty of 1911's but came across this one at this price and jumped on it.

The mag was a a factory Colt. The mag release seemed tight to me. He said "metalform" (not sure I got that right) mags would drop free.

It certainly shoots accurately. He said I can try it again with different mags and factory ammo if I want. I don't think he's trying to pawn off junk on me. He said he'd hold it for me if I was interested or he had other friends who would probably want it if I chose to pass on it.

The cycling problem was the slide locking open. It looked like the round was sitting in correctly in the mag. I'm wondering if my "Glock" grip caused me to actuate the slide stop on recoil once or twice?

Quick mag changes for Bulls-eye aren't really important, IDPA and CCW they obviously are. I'm going to shoot it again and do some drills with it. If it holds up and functions well, I'll probably pick it up.

You guys don't think the target sights make it suitable for the gun games?

Any and all opinions are appreciated.

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by rowjimmy

I'd consider him a friend. He hadn't even shot the gun, just detail cleaned it and reassembled it. He has plenty of 1911's but came across this one at this price and jumped on it.

The mag was a a factory Colt. The mag release seemed tight to me. He said "metalform" (not sure I got that right) mags would drop free.

It certainly shoots accurately. He said I can try it again with different mags and factory ammo if I want. I don't think he's trying to pawn off junk on me. He said he'd hold it for me if I was interested or he had other friends who would probably want it if I chose to pass on it.

The cycling problem was the slide locking open. It looked like the round was sitting in correctly in the mag. I'm wondering if my "Glock" grip caused me to actuate the slide stop on recoil once or twice?

Quick mag changes for Bulls-eye aren't really important, IDPA and CCW they obviously are. I'm going to shoot it again and do some drills with it. If it holds up and functions well, I'll probably pick it up.

You guys don't think the target sights make it suitable for the gun games?

Any and all opinions are appreciated.

Games, maybe. Daily carry, no.

[olgunner]

A Colt Gold Cup for $650, unless it's beat to hell, is a no-brainer. If you pass, let me know and I'll drive up to central PA to check it out.
As others have said, a national match gun is not the best carry gun. They tend to be a little tight, tuned for target ammo and a little light in the trigger. But for shooting tight groups, the GC is hard to beat.
Seriously--let me know if you decide to turn it down. I always have room for another 1911!

[chet]

Originally Posted by rowjimmy

I'd consider him a friend. He hadn't even shot the gun, just detail cleaned it and reassembled it. He has plenty of 1911's but came across this one at this price and jumped on it.

The mag was a a factory Colt. The mag release seemed tight to me. He said "metalform" (not sure I got that right) mags would drop free.

It certainly shoots accurately. He said I can try it again with different mags and factory ammo if I want. I don't think he's trying to pawn off junk on me. He said he'd hold it for me if I was interested or he had other friends who would probably want it if I chose to pass on it.

The cycling problem was the slide locking open. It looked like the round was sitting in correctly in the mag. I'm wondering if my "Glock" grip caused me to actuate the slide stop on recoil once or twice?

Quick mag changes for Bulls-eye aren't really important, IDPA and CCW they obviously are. I'm going to shoot it again and do some drills with it. If it holds up and functions well, I'll probably pick it up.

You guys don't think the target sights make it suitable for the gun games?

Any and all opinions are appreciated.

Has the mag release screws been diddled with? Again, it's hard to tell from a sample of one but I have Colt mags that drop just fine empty from Colt guns. Plenty of other manufacturers like Wilson and Doublestar should drop free from a Colt gun as well.

The slide was stopping a full rear travel and the slide stop was engaging the notch? Does it have an aftermarket extended slide release on it? Check to see if the slide stop plunger is exerting pressure on the slide stop. Try some traditional one hand off hand and see if it repeats. Try some different mags too.

Personally, I don't think adjustable sights are a deal killer for CCW. It is one more thing to go wrong and totally unnecessary for the task but people use them effectively all the time. I would have some serious reservations about the gun if I could not figure out the slide locking or the mag/release thing but I would be willing to bet these are simple fixes.

Again, barring a bunch of missing metal and solid check out on function a la the above link, 650 is a workable price.

[shlomo]

A small dimple ground on the rear face of the slide stop where it contacts the plunger is the traditional fix for the stop jumping up under recoil.

All my GM pistols have had adjustables, mainly BoMars. I wouldn't carry a pistol that I couldn't get centered. Seldom shot one with fixed sights that was.

Just shows that opinions vary.

[chet]

You must be skinny Shlo. Bomars always poked me in my kidney gristle.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by chet

You must be skinny Shlo. Bomars always poked me in my kidney gristle.

I used ta be. Now I'm old, fat, and tough.

Just gettin' outta bed hurts worse'n em BoMars.

[NEWFNL1A1]

I used to want BoMars on my pistols but I waited long enough that my eyesight now matches the practical working distance of the little fixed ones...so I'm good.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by NEWFNL1A1

I used to want BoMars on my pistols but I waited long enough that my eyesight now matches the practical working distance of the little fixed ones...so I'm good.

I hear ya. When I go completely blind, which oughta be any week now, I'm gonna save about a hunnert-fitty bux on my next build by makin' it a slick slide, and centerpunchin' some braille dots on top of it.

[Mark IV]

For $650 I'd buy it in a hearbeat!

Whatever the ugly finish is on the receiver, it can be removed, and you can have it re-blued to original. The Cold Custom Shop will have that thing looking like new.

I carried my Gold Cup concealed with no probs. Very comforting to feel that hunk of steel tugging on your belt.

If you don't want it, I'll buy that sucker.

[spider991]

650.00 sounds great,but if your buying it for ccw, shoot it more! Shooting bullseye/idpa is a world of difference in a personal carry gun you are going to trust your and maybe your famalies life with. Find out if it is just jamming because of the lead or jams with other stuff. Take some bullets you think you might carry, ie speer gold dots, hordany critical defense....i wouldnt/dont carry something i have not tested hard, tons of carry ammo. IF you are not comfortable and are not confident in your weapon it probably wont leave the house. Sorry to ramble but this is important. Best of luk, i LOVE Colt gold cups,i carry a glock.

[cgmees]

Colt Gold Cup series 70 was my first handgun purchase in the 70's. Never have regretted the purchase at all. Will own it until I die. Was my daily carry gun for over 20 years until I started carrying the Glock 17. Still occasionally carry it.

Had some minor work done on the pistol, buried BoMars, ramp polish, front and back strap checkered, opened the ejection port a little more, not really needed and a refinish. I was young and didn't think through my mod's as much as I do now. I don't remember any problems in the last 5,000 rounds of lead reloads, factory hardball and 4-500 200 gr +P's. It goes bang when a round is chambered and the trigger pressed.