Criticism of the NRA

[FAL freek]

Originally Posted by Shoots High

I see that, and I'm pretty much turned on by it. Some of these guys are still a bunch of ideological fools. They all live in a perfect world.

You better watch it or for his next trick he's gonna start lecturing you about what Reagan did while he was Governor.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by FAL freek

You better watch it or for his next trick he's gonna start lecturing you about what Reagan did while he was Governor.

Meaning FAL Freek admired Reagan for banning the carry of firearms in the PRK.

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by JasonB

Meaning FAL Freek admired Reagan for banning the carry of firearms in the PRK.

Has there been a politician who has kept the pure faith? Part of getting elected is bending to the views of the electorate.

[Bug Tussell]

The NRA saw which way the wind was blowing with the Zumbo incident and is now pro-EBR. And it's still about duck hunting.

[Dolvio]

Originally Posted by Shoots High

I see that, and I'm pretty much turned on by it. Some of these guys are still a bunch of ideological fools. They all live in a perfect world.

And the NRA is just a front so idiots can send them a few bucks and say they've done their part to protect the 2A. The same people that will sit on their asses and do nothing when bans and seizures happen.

[Abominog]

OK, here's my gripes:

1. As mentioned, NRA at best aquieced, or at worst supported, anti-2A legislature. As is often said, "what part of 'shall not be infrindged' is not understood"?

2. Face it, 2AF and JPFO and others kicked their ass in the job they should have been doing.

3. Until Heller, NRA was all about hunting and M1 Garands. This was particularly so in the 1980s and 1990s. All of a sudden a half-million ARs are sold in one year, and only then NRA gets on board...sort of.

3. Pro-2A board members/ execs were/ are ostracized by the Fuds. NRA is still full of Fuds.

4. NRA funds LE only competition. Since LE is often the source of the problem, why fund it? That's why we pay taxes. How about funding matches/ shoots where government employees are not allowed to participate?

5. NRA ILA is about "L". I'm OK with that. But how about a defense fund? I'd rather have the money spent on that than LE-only matches. NRA should be defending those offended by 2A violators, and doing it hard.

6. Renewal reminders six months ahead of time....and then monthly. I'll renew when I get my ANNUAL reminder, thank you. I don't like being hassled with "your membership is expiring" notices six months early.

7. Bogus polls and crap as fundraisers. Don't offend my intelligence. NRA already knows what we think. Don't disguise fundraisers as polls, particularly on non-gun topics like illegal immigrants.

8. In most every debate, Wayne LaPierre does poorly. Get a new front man who can argue the points elequently and briefly. Hate to say it, but Ted can shred just about any oponenent. Wayne plays too much to the political line.

9. What's with the NRA rags and the official coin dealers and official investment crap? NRA isn't about investments or buying gold coins. That's just more bogus fund raising. Focus. Focus. Focus.

NRA, like ATF and teachers unions, has become an entity upon itself. NRA's goal is not 2A, but self-preservation and power position. It's become a bloody business that keeps the execs employed, and lost focus on the membership and goal.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by SWOHFAL

Has there been a politician who has kept the pure faith? Part of getting elected is bending to the views of the electorate.

So if one of your acquaintances lies you jump in and start lying to help them?

[Dirt1042]

Originally Posted by JasonB

No kiddin

[0302]

so applying the logic of "my enemie's enemy is my friend", all the nra haters here are yobama supporters, display your rainbow stickers proudly!!!

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by JasonB

So if one of your acquaintances lies you jump in and start lying to help them?

If all of them are liars, then I need to overlook the lying part then or choose those who lie the least to remain acquainted with. Maybe some of their lies are to my benefit as well.

[308bolt]

Originally Posted by 0302

so applying the logic of "my enemie's enemy is my friend", all the nra haters here are yobama supporters, display your rainbow stickers proudly!!!

Applying the fact of "democrats resort to childish insults when their shallow, emotionally based arguments are found to be ineffectual", you should move to L.A. where you'll find yourself more comfortable surrounded by like minded individuals.

[0302]

my logic is sound

[olgier]

Originally Posted by 0302

my logic is sound

"You don't know, that you don't know."

[308bolt]

Originally Posted by 0302

my logic is sound

It's not "your logic' to begin with. It's an Middle-Eastern (Moslem) proverb.
Try looking at facts instead of taking some other person's words and making it "your logic". You'll both see and know more.

[thunderchicken]

As a well funded political action organization the NRA is an abject failure. Consider the effectiveness of the AARP or the homosexual lobby compared to the NRA. How phags marrying or serving in the military became a front page issue when they constitute about 1% of the population is a remarkable study in political effectiveness. Contrast that with the NRA which has ostensibly about 50% of the population (gun owners) as its constituency and has done a very poor job.

[Hebrew Battle Rifle]

Originally Posted by Shoots High

I see that, and I'm pretty much turned on by it. Some of these guys are still a bunch of ideological fools. They all live in a perfect world.

The republicans had control of the Fed.Gov for 6 years and the NRA got exactly ZERO federal anti gun laws repealed. ZERO! They claim to the "the most powerful gun lobby in Washington." If they cannot get anything done with republican control of Congress, Senate, and White House, then they are either criminally incompetent or they're whole schtick is a scam.
Either way, piss on em.

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by thunderchicken

As a well funded political action organization the NRA is an abject failure. Consider the effectiveness of the AARP or the homosexual lobby compared to the NRA. How phags marrying or serving in the military became a front page issue when they constitute about 1% of the population is a remarkable study in political effectiveness. Contrast that with the NRA which has ostensibly about 50% of the population (gun owners) as its constituency and has done a very poor job.

But it's hard to claim minority victimhood coming from that position also.

[falfred]

Divide and conquer has been an effective weapon for thousands of years. I am not smart enough to read everything there is available in order to pick an organization with enough power to do battle in Washington supporting my gun rights for me. I do know is that there is no organization as powerful as the NRA. No one organization has the clout the NRA does. NONE. I also know that there are an awful lot of new organizations at the gun show door with their hands out asking for money, and many of them tell me how worthless the NRA is (so give us your money, we will do a better job). Hmph, seems to be a real fad lately, almost as if there is a very concerted effort to divide and conquer gun owners here in the USA. Anyway, like I said, I ain't very smart, so I am going to pick one champion and stick with them, and for me, it is the NRA. The rest of whoever can smile smugly and do and say what they want, but touting some recently formed gun organization that I have never heard of before only makes me even more skittish and wary of scams and will make me stick to my convictions even more firmly.

[0302]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...empt-vote.html

as recently as this month the nra sent the democrats running fir cover

[Dirt1042]

Originally Posted by 0302

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...empt-vote.html

as recently as this month the nra sent the democrats running fir cover

Why would they do that when they give A ratings to some Democrats?

[0302]

some dems kiss nra ass for the coveted nra endorsement, bless their evil black hearts. here in new mex, gov bill richardson, a progressive devil if there ever was one, signed the ccw bill for nra endorsement. the nra swings a big stick which cuts across party lines. even bill clinton gave cudos to the nra.

[308bolt]

Once you see that the democrats and the republicans are one in the same and that the NRA profits by keeping the second amendment argument alive, as do the politicians, then you'll understand what's really going on.
If the second amendment was ever entirely rescinded or ever found to be completely inviolate both the NRA and politicians from both wings of the party would lose massive amounts of funding and power. It's in the NRAs best interests to keep the argument over this right alive and gunowners on their tiptoes.

[gunplumber]

Originally Posted by Hebrew Battle Rifle

The republicans had control of the Fed.Gov for 6 years and the NRA got exactly ZERO federal anti gun laws repealed. ZERO! They claim to the "the most powerful gun lobby in Washington." If they cannot get anything done with republican control of Congress, Senate, and White House, then they are either criminally incompetent or they're whole schtick is a scam.
Either way, piss on em.

This.

I'm a life member - have been for 20+ years. But I can't see any reason to support them anymore with a single penny. I don't see being any better off on 2A issues than I was 20 + years ago - so where is their relevance?

The board is full of political whores more interested in their $200,000 salaries and being wooed by movers and shakers on the beltway, than their actual reason for being. They used the magazine to actively campaign against board candidates who were ideologues and not political whores.

Heck - they continue to call me to solicit money, despite my telling them to f-ck off and die, and never call me again (hundreds of times) but they can't seem to get their half-way decent magazine to me. Although with it now chocked full of male enhancement and jewelry ads, I guess I don't miss it too much.

Their money comes from crisis. No crisis, no money.

I still can't get over that anti-gun Charlston Heston. I know grade-school librarians more carefully vetted.

[1gewehr]

I'm also a life member. I am well aware of the fact that EVERY Federal gun law has passed with NRA support or acquiescence. I am also aware that they have never repealed a Federal gun law. That's the bad side.

The good side is that there have been a lot of gun bills that never even got out of committee because the NRA said 'no'. It can easily be argued that without the NRA, the 1934 would have classified all handguns the same as machine guns and other NFA items. And it can be argued that the NRA was instrumental in making the 1994 Brady Act an instant check system instead of a five or seven day wait.

The truth is that the NRA does a lot of good. Also keep in mind that until the 1970's, the NRA didn't pay a whole lot of attention to lobbying. Most of their attention was devoted to target shooting, hunting, and training. there are a LOT of folks (including me) who got their first formal firearms training at Boy Scout or summer camp through an NRA-sponsored training program.
In the 1970's, the membership wanted the NRA to be a political power, and the NRA responded in 1975 by creating a lobbying arm, the NRA-ILA.

To a large degree, the NRA is a reflection of the goals of it's membership. When the membership was mostly focused on hunting and target shooting, that's what the NRA did. Now, when so many members own and shoot Black Rifles, the NRA has shifted it's focus to support those firearms as well. A good example is to look at the NRA videos. Their short videos 'My Old Gun' started out as just a bunch of sporting arms. Now, about 20% of them are military and/or machine guns.

The NRA leadership will do what they have to do to keep their jobs. As members, you need to be vocal and communicate what you want. Never in it's history has the NRA been as hard-line pro-2nd as it is this year. Are they perfect? Heck no. They still shill for some of the biggest idiots ever to plop a butt in a congressional chair. And they are constantly whining about money and trying to horn in on the accomplishments of other groups.

But, like it or not, the NRA is one of the elephants in this political circus. You can either be a 'mahout' on top trying to guide the beast, or just a spectator.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by 1gewehr

Never in it's history has the NRA been as hard-line pro-2nd as it is this year.

Has there been a year that has went by that one of their members hasn't said this? They must have really been ******* us good and hard in years past since they are shacked up with Romney this year.

[newuser]

Originally Posted by Hebrew Battle Rifle

The republicans had control of the Fed.Gov for 6 years and the NRA got exactly ZERO federal anti gun laws repealed. ZERO!

Don't forget that Bush said that he would happily sign a renewal of the 94 AWB when it expired in '04. It was only a Republican Congress and arm-twisting by the NRA (and others) that prevented that law from being renewed.
Wayne had to go down to Crawford and threaten to withhold NRA endorsement of Bush's 2004 re-election in order to keep him in line.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ress=118x57125

Bush like his daddy was no friend of the right to keep and bear arms

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by newuser

Bush like his daddy was no friend of the right to keep and bear arms

So why did they endorse him in 2000?

[newuser]

Originally Posted by JasonB

So why did they endorse him in 2000?

The Bush's are excellent con men pretending to be anything but the northeast limousine liberal Rockefeller Republicans that they really are.

[Arby]

Excellent post, 1gewehr!

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by newuser

The Bush's are excellent con men pretending to be anything but the northeast limousine liberal Rockefeller Republicans that they really are.

So the NRA was too stupid to read his website stating all the anti-gun crap that Bush wanted in his 2000 campaign? And we should support stupidity why?

So what is your excuse for the NRA jumping on board with McCain?

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by JasonB

So why did they endorse him in 2000?

They chose the lesser evil, as do most voters.

[0302]

elections are like a coin toss, you can call "heads" or "tails", but there is always a jackass who might call "edge" and bitch when he loses

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by SWOHFAL

They chose the lesser evil, as do most voters.

How is one gun banner less evil than another?

[Tuscan Raider]

They are spending money on an anti-un treatie on directv right now.

I know they are mostly a REACTIVE organization, meaning they have always waited for the fight to come to them. I am with the others on them doing jack squat on repealing laws.

[John Crusher]

What do you think the 2A would look like without the NRA ? I'm a Distinguished Life Member and donate once a year but am not active in any way. Joined in '75 when I registered as Republican.

[308bolt]

Originally Posted by John Crusher

What do you think the 2A would look like without the NRA ? I'm a Distinguished Life Member and donate once a year but am not active in any way. Joined in '75 when I registered as Republican.

It could be the same, maybe better even.
The ILA was formed in direct response to the Second Amendment foundation who the NRA was fast losing membership to when they told their membership that they were not a political organization but a pro-shooting sports organization. The Second Amendment Foundation would be larger now and the NRA smaller. Better leadership focused solely on the 2A issue may have yielded better results.

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by JasonB

How is one gun banner less evil than another?

Because he won't ban all guns, or will leave available more types, or enact a less-restrictive ban than the other? Of course, one could not vote for him to ensure that any bans that are enacted will be by his opponent, who favors greater prohibition. IOW, picking a non-viable candidate and letting the worst candidate win is aiding and abetting gun banning every bit as much as choosing the least worst gun banner to vote for, perhaps more so.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by SWOHFAL

Because he won't ban all guns, or will leave available more types, or enact a less-restrictive ban than the other? Of course, one could not vote for him to ensure that any bans that are enacted will be by his opponent, who favors greater prohibition. IOW, picking a non-viable candidate and letting the worst candidate win is aiding and abetting gun banning every bit as much as choosing the least worst gun banner to vote for, perhaps more so.

In other words, republicans can ban what ever they want without so much as a whimper of protest from the typical gun owner.

[0302]

the nra is on the job http://mobile.usnews.com/news/articl...weapons-treaty

go ahead and vote for yobama if ya don't like the nra, ya won't be missed

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by 0302

the nra is on the job http://mobile.usnews.com/news/articl...weapons-treaty

go ahead and vote for yobama if ya don't like the nra, ya won't be missed

I don't support either.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by JasonB

I don't support either.

Judging from the posts I've seen you make, you don't appear to support anything. According to a number of your posts here you:

Hate the NRA
Hate Cops
Hate Republicans

Why do you come here, other than to spew your vitriol? Do you even own a FAL?

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by JasonB

In other words, republicans can ban what ever they want without so much as a whimper of protest from the typical gun owner.

Other than Bush I, I have yet to think of a GOP POTUS actively banning weapons. Some may have been lukewarm, but we know Democrats are doing what they can to ban them.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by Arby

Judging from the posts I've seen you make, you don't appear to support anything. According to a number of your posts here you:

Hate the NRA

The NRA has good safety programs, but terrible on firearms rights issues.

Originally Posted by Arby

Hate Cops

Considering the officers I dislike are those who abuse citizens or the officers that aid and abet those who do I take it you are in favor of police abusing their authority.

Originally Posted by Arby

Hate Republicans

Considering I enjoy firearms, why would I support a group that at times actively bans firearms or when not banning themselves, gripes about the other party infiringing on firearms rights, but when they get in power do nothing to do away with the infringements that they campaigned on?

Originally Posted by Arby

Why do you come here, other than to spew your vitriol? Do you even own a FAL?

Yes.

Considering you support 3 groups who abuse your firearms rights do you own an FAL?

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by SWOHFAL

Other than Bush I, I have yet to think of a GOP POTUS actively banning weapons. Some may have been lukewarm, but we know Democrats are doing what they can to ban them.

Reagan 1986 mg ban, Bush 1989 semi-auto ban, Bush 2005 barrel and receiver ban.

[Dirt1042]

Originally Posted by JasonB

Reagan 1986 mg ban, Bush 1989 semi-auto ban, Bush 2005 barrel and receiver ban.

Did Jimmy Carter ban guns?

[Dirt1042]

Originally Posted by 0302

some dems kiss nra ass for the coveted nra endorsement, bless their evil black hearts. here in new mex, gov bill richardson, a progressive devil if there ever was one, signed the ccw bill for nra endorsement. the nra swings a big stick which cuts across party lines. even bill clinton gave cudos to the nra.

So the NRA gets Dems to play ball for 2A stuff? Sounds like lobbying to me.

[SWOHFAL]

Originally Posted by JasonB

Reagan 1986 mg ban, Bush 1989 semi-auto ban, Bush 2005 barrel and receiver ban.

The Reagan ban was a trade/devil's bargain for FOPA (which is more useful to most gun owners) and Bush II 2005 was more of a re-interpretation of existing rules by his AG, not that that lets W off the hook for letting that POS make policy decisions.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by SWOHFAL

The Reagan ban was a trade/devil's bargain for FOPA (which is more useful to most gun owners) and Bush II 2005 was more of a re-interpretation of existing rules by his AG, not that that lets W off the hook for letting that POS make policy decisions.

It is what it is.

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by Dirt1042

Did Jimmy Carter ban guns?

Anti-gun, did some anti-gun appointments, but didn't sign any in to law as near as I can tell. Of course he never worked to repeal any either so that should really be considered as bad as tacking more on.

[Dirt1042]

Originally Posted by JasonB

Anti-gun, did some anti-gun appointments, but didn't sign any in to law as near as I can tell. Of course he never worked to repeal any either so that should really be considered as bad as tacking more on.

So a pres who was considered an ultra bleeding heart liberal and one of the worst ever, did better than Reagan, Klinton, and the fabulous Bush boys?