FAL Charging Handle Issue/Question

[CookieMonsta]

Ok so I've got a DSA SA58... had a few hiccups with it but for the most part I have her running the way I need it to.
I have an issue once in a while with feeding of my rifle. I mainly handload, so it MIGHT be a headspace issue (which I still need to double check), however I looked at the rifle and noticed one thing during my field strip.

The feeding issue happens like this;
I feed a magazine and hit the bolt close. The bolt rams forward, stripping the round out of the magazine and chambers the round. The bolt does not fully close. It goes about 95% of the way and there is about a 1/4 inch gap between the bolt and the front of the ejection port. I can kind of see the ejector still.
I then measured my ammunition, in which the OAL was fine. I took one of the rounds that would not fully seat and manually placed it in the chamber and hit the bolt close... and the bolt closed completely. I did this same test for three other rounds that would not feed from a magazine and had the same results. I checked the magazines and everything seems to check out with them.

I field stripped my gun, and noticed the charging handle gets 'stuck' in that last 1/4 inch that it needs to fully close. There is a good amount of tension and even when I go to charge the weapon it feels like it gets stuck somewhat in the forward position... its notchy. I noticed that it is exactly where the bolt gets stuck in its forward movement too... which is why I am thinking it is the charging handle over anything else.
Any ideas?

Maybe anyone local to CT could come shoot/give me a hand with this sometime?

Either way, thanks!

[NHBandit]

Alot of FALs don't like to be loaded from a full mag using the BHO. It ain't an AR and the bolt hold open is for just that, holding it open. It's not intended as a release. It's much better to pull the charging handle all the way to the rear & let it fly to get the most "push" from the recoil spring. If this is a new DSA their rep claims they need a "break in period" as well though most of us aren't buying that fairy tale. Try loading it as I suggested & report back. And welcome to the best FAL forum in the world.

[cavegeo]

Are you releasing the bolt by using the BHO. If so stop doing it that way.

To charge the rifle insert mag then pull charging handle back and release the handle to charge the weapon. It will work much better this way.

[CookieMonsta]

Originally Posted by cavegeo

Are you releasing the bolt by using the BHO. If so stop doing it that way.

To charge the rifle insert mag then pull charging handle back and release the handle to charge the weapon. It will work much better this way.

Well I always use BHO and have never had an issue. With that aside, generally first rounds I strip with BHO; if there is a jam or mal I clear it and of course don't use BHO.
Just tested it, and even with -4 rounds in a 20 round magazine it still jammed. This was by pulling bolt to the rear and letting it fly.
Maybe it doesnt like this type of bullet... soft lead tip used for hunting. Still not sure the cause.

[cavegeo]

Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

soft lead tip used for hunting. Still not sure the cause.

What does the soft point look like after trying to charge the rifle. Is the point mangled if so I suspect the projectiles are the issue. Try charging it using FMJ rounds and see how it works.

The FAL was designed to use FMJ and not soft points.

[CookieMonsta]

I made a quick video of the malfunction. Easier to see whats going on here as opposed to explaining it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txzz-DGKlco

[Bwana John]

Try it without the topcover/scopemount on.

[cavegeo]

I did not see any scratching on the brass or deformation to the tip of the projectile.

I would also suggest taking the scope cover off and trying again to see if it makes a difference. Maybe one of the plates holding the scope cover has come loose.

[CookieMonsta]

Originally Posted by cavegeo

I did not see any scratching on the brass or deformation to the tip of the projectile.

I would also suggest taking the scope cover off and trying again to see if it makes a difference. Maybe one of the plates holding the scope cover has come loose.

I had the scope cover/dust cover off earlier, while I was trying to figure out the issue. It did not come loose... but i'll take it off to see if it makes a difference.

[cavegeo]

Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Hey hey, im a grown man. They don't need to know my business
PS. Got a problem with my tobacco pipe?

With a name such as Post Toastie I suspect he may have smoked some in his past.

PS: I see he removed his comment - I suspect he was just having a little fun with you, no harm no foul.

[cavegeo]

Do you have any FMJ round laying around to try.

Remember to take this in single steps, do not perform more than one change at a time or you may not be able to figure out the issue.

[CookieMonsta]

Originally Posted by cavegeo

Do you have any FMJ round laying around to try.

Remember to take this in single steps, do not perform more than one change at a time or you may not be able to figure out the issue.

Its not every round that fails to feed though; which is the weird part. Some will feed fine. Also, the ones that fail to feed can be fed if there is no magazine in the well. Just tried this and tested it also. So when there is no magazine, it feeds properly.

[cavegeo]

The reason it feeds well without a mag is due to less resistance against the bolt.

If you remove the cover and it still has failure to feed then try FMJ rounds. Another reason to try FMJ is to rule out the reloads being the issue rather than something else.

How many rounds have you put through the rifle before this issue arouse.

Remember one change at a time or you will not know which change actually fixed the issue.

Another thing to keep in mind is you are only cycling the rifle by hand and the rifle may have less issue when actually firing the rifle due to the bolt having more kinetic energy. Also need to be careful when cycling the rifle by hand as I have heard of rounds being set off by the primer hitting the ejector. It would be better to take the rifle to the range with your tools and try to diagnose it the range by actually shooting it rather than hand cycling it.

[CookieMonsta]

Originally Posted by cavegeo

The reason it feeds well without a mag is due to less resistance against the bolt.

If you remove the cover and it still has failure to feed then try FMJ rounds. Another reason to try FMJ is to rule out the reloads being the issue rather than something else.

How many rounds have you put through the rifle before this issue arouse.

Remember one change at a time or you will not know which change actually fixed the issue.

Another thing to keep in mind is you are only cycling the rifle by hand and the rifle may have less issue when actually firing the rifle due to the bolt having more kinetic energy. Also need to be careful when cycling the rifle by hand as I have heard of rounds being set off by the primer hitting the ejector. It would be better to take the rifle to the range with your tools and try to diagnose it the range by actually shooting it rather than hand cycling it.

Which is why I think the charging handle might be the culprit. Near the front position it has much more friction. Although, with the bolt in its not terribly noticable... I dont know.
I still need to get my hands on a headspace gauge. Going to pick one up tomorrow so I could rule that out.

I wish I knew more about these guns. This DSA rifle cost me so much cash and I have had to send it back to them once already (which took 3 months) and now its still not running completely ok. Sadface.

BTW I only have one FMJ round at the moment. Not enough to test.

[Gunny HWY]

It maybe that your cocking handle stud is a little long. I had this problem on one of my builds. It was binding and wedging the bolt carrier in the receiver. I took it apart,trimmed and polished the tip. Reassembled,was good to go. It was all about tolerences-bolt carrier,receiver rails,cocking handle stud length.Also,you probably allready do this = trim cartridge cases to spec.

[L Haney]

Mine feeds 100% from tripping the bolt release on a full mag. But, I polished the rails in the upper and the matching surfaces of the bolt carrier. They are lightly greased. Good advise above, work on one thing at a time.

Check the charging handle for friction in its slot, interference with the lug. If all that is good you should have a high pitched 'zing' sound as it functions under the action of the recoil spring.

Make sure you don't have crud in the recoil spring tube. I've seen way too many where that wasn't torn down and scrubbed out. Full of 40 year old fossilized used to be grease.

I've also seen curved (bent) rat tails that were dragging like hell on the tube itself.

[IRONWORKER]

Originally Posted by NHBandit

It ain't an AR and the bolt hold open is for just that, holding it open. It's not intended as a release.

+1 - The BHO was not designed to be used as a release..... Doing so is what causes the BHO foot to become loose (many from milsurp kits are VERY loose)

[Deltaten]

Hmmmm..

I'd recommend the "slidey" test. TC off, mag out and wep closed, Tilt front to rear and back again. See if the B/BC travel freely full length of run both directions. Pay particular attention to the chamber end of travel. Some ways have not been fully finished , binding the BC at the last possible moment.Once THAT's done and off the "ooopsey" list, ya can move on to the next test.
Like said...one at a time

Another place I've found interference is the bolt/hood area. IIRC, at battery, the front/top of the bolt runs into and under a small "hood" in the receiver. Depending on what's going on....mags.. B/BC or probably a slightly proud "shelf/hood" in the rcvr; once ammo's pushing up on the Bolt, it runs afoul of that hood at he last moment of going into battery. Empty, the bolt can slop around (down) as needeed; but loaded rounds pushing up on the bolt (stacking [in]tolerances in B/BC and rcvr ways) casue it to drag on top as it enters.
A little polish goes a long way

[ronpaulFAL]

All good points. You might also check for wear marks on your bolt carrier and on the inside-face of the plates holding your scope mount on.

Once you get this all figured out, suggest you use loctite on your scope mount screws.

[Root66]

Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Which is why I think the charging handle might be the culprit. Near the front position it has much more friction.

The charging handle has a spring-loaded ball detent that is the source of that added friction near the front end of its travel.

[CookieMonsta]

Ok so it definitely has nothing to do with my charging handle. It has something to do with my ammunition. Oddly enough, everything seems to check out with it. Not sure the issue but I will figure it out.

[ronpaulFAL]

Did you get off all the case lube? Certain case lubes can leave a heavy, waxy buildup behind and I could see it causing issues.

[cavegeo]

Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Ok so it definitely has nothing to do with my charging handle. It has something to do with my ammunition. Oddly enough, everything seems to check out with it. Not sure the issue but I will figure it out.

Could we get some more info here.

How do you know it's not the charging handle?

What make you think it's the ammo?

If I recall you were reloading soft points, did you try some FMJ yet.

Inquiring minds wish to know.

[gunplumber]

Pull the cocking handle to the rear, lock open, then return cocking handle to forward position. This removes the cocking handle from the equation. If it still fails to close, it is not the cocking handle.

If the problem goes away, remove the cocking handle. Remove and cleaning the plunger and spring (lot of crap get stuck in there). Run a file through the cocking handle slot in which the lug rides - lot of receivers have a burr on the front of the slot due to the way in which it was machined.

See if the handle slides smoothly without the lug, and with the lug. Then reassemble.

[Cava3r4]

Did you remove the bolt and bolt carrier and clean and lube it?
Maybe their is a bunch of crap in there.
I'd do what Gunplumber said also.
I'd also REMOVE the charging handle and tip the weapon with the bolt and carrier (NO AMMO) to see if it slides freely.
In Reality, since I only live about 30 Miles from gunplumber, I'd go their BEFORE I did anything!!!
I'm Lucky!!

[mountainman]

Won't hurt to take about .002" off the lug.