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Old May 04, 2012, 18:42   #51
L Haney
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What is it about firearms that attracts Wingnuts ???
The very real perception of the personal power they convey. Sadly, they are unaware of the responsibility they entail.

Guess we shouldn't be surprised at this as our society has been killing every last concept of personal responsibility as fast as possible.
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Old May 06, 2012, 04:17   #52
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Sadly I was born in Cali and only mention it when I get the funny look. The 7mm-08 reminds me of my buddy who got all excited to show me this "awesome" .223 he got for his ar15. It was .223 WSSM and he couldnt figure out why I told him it wouldnt work in his rifle.
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Old May 08, 2012, 23:46   #53
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Gun shop sales clerks seem to come in two main varieties. There are gun enthusiasts with a lot of firearms knowledge who get into selling them, and there are salesmen with a "used car lot" mentality who try selling firearms for a while before they go back to used cars or pushing an Amway pyramid scheme.

I've worked with a couple of guys like that. They could sell ice to Eskimos, but beyond the basics, didn't really know that much about guns. When a customer asked them a question they didn't know the answer to, they'd just make up something on the spot, whether it had anything to do with reality or the truth or not. It always made me cringe when they did that, and I really had to bite my tongue sometimes to keep from getting involved.

That kind of thing is one of the main reasons I quit selling guns and got into doing firearms training. That, and the fact that at most shops, gun salesmen don't get paid all that well. Or at least they didn't when I was in the business.
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Old May 09, 2012, 17:44   #54
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Ah, but sometimes the good guys still win....

Twenty years ago I went into a Chicago antique store I periodically frequented, and on a shelf was a World War II-era type L drum for a Thompson. I looked it over, it was complete, everything seemed to move, no particularly bad rust visible (a little patina, but that was all), and I asked the owner about it.

He gave me some BS story about how it came from the estate of a decorated Scottish war veteran. "Yeah, right", I thought, steeled myself and asked what I had to..."how much"

"Thirty dollars".

You never saw money change hands faster....

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Originally Posted by Ironhandjohn View Post
It's widespread on the other side of the counter, too...



I went into one not far from me, and they happened to have a nice SVT-40 on the rack. I asked to look at it and while I checked it out the clerk went into what sounded like a well-practiced monologue about the rifle.


" We bought that rifle from a 'contractor' who was over in Afghanistan. It was the personal rifle of his local guide, who gave it to the 'contractor' after he completed his tour, in appreciation for the job he had done over there..."

I looked at the guy.... back to the rifle..... and back at the salesman once again. I then flipped the rifle around so he could see the "IMPORTED BY CENTURY ARMS" stamp on the barrel. I leaned in close and told him, " Some people who come in here might buy that bullshit, but you need to watch out for those of us who know a little bit..."

He was also giving their WASR-63s the same kind of BS story as the SVT-40, telling folks that " That rifle was probably riding around in Kabul Afghanistan this time last year..", and that they'd bought those rifles from a 'contractor's' personal collection.


Oy...
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Old May 09, 2012, 19:13   #55
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Ah, but sometimes the good guys still win....

Twenty years ago I went into a Chicago antique store I periodically frequented, and on a shelf was a World War II-era type L drum for a Thompson. I looked it over, it was complete, everything seemed to move, no particularly bad rust visible (a little patina, but that was all), and I asked the owner about it.

He gave me some BS story about how it came from the estate of a decorated Scottish war veteran. "Yeah, right", I thought, steeled myself and asked what I had to..."how much"

"Thirty dollars".

You never saw money change hands faster....

Good buy for you, but I thought that $900 for a ragged-out, rusty SVT-40 with a sewer-pipe bore was a bit much. So were the $600 WASR-63s.


I was at a pawn/gun store in west Nashville a few years ago that was having a sale on Bulgarian Makarovs when they were everywhere. The sales clerk, all of 18 or 19 years old, was handing out boxes of 9mm ammo with each sale................ 9mm parabellum!!

When I mentioned that the ammo he was selling was the wrong caliber he got very indignant as he told me, " It says 9mm on the box, don't it??!!??"

I wonder how many of those pistols came back due to chambering/jamming issues...??
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Old May 14, 2012, 18:43   #56
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Kyro; that is a rant

there is much in life that inspires facepalms...sad that so much is at the gunstore, what you would hope to be a bastion of higher thought and reason.

but, alas, you end up listening to mouthbreathers talk about how their M1895 was physically present w/ Theodore Roosevelt on San Juan Hill....as you look at the chambering of 30-06 and the 1909 patent date on the side.

instant facepalm...

i could go on, but i've been away from the counter for several years...my anguish is nowhere near as fresh as yours, man.
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Old May 14, 2012, 21:35   #57
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I use to frequent a particular fun shop when I was younger. The guys that worked there always said that the pistols "only had a box or two" run through them even though you could see that the cylinder was trashed. I bought a couple of lemons from them because I didn't know any better at the time. Later when I finnaly got some good basic knowledge under my belt I went back there every chance I got to either buy the stuff that they had marked well below market value, or to check out every gun that struck my fancy and walk out the door with nothing.
I still use the same tactic today when I walk into a shop I haven't been into. If I hear BS from behind the counter I look around for what the guy under priced. If I hear strait talk then I normaly come back to support the guy if his prices are resonable.

I guess the whole story in a nut shell is that there are bloom'n idiots everywhere.
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Old May 14, 2012, 21:39   #58
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I think there is something wrong with a man who refers to a firearm as "she" or "her". Seriously, get help. Soon.
I have given several of my rifles female names.


I was in a Gander mountain recently. I over heard a clerk "splainin'" why the middle aged woman needed a revolver instead of an automatic. His reasoning was that if she had a revolver, she could push the bad guy away with her left hand and use her free hand to draw the revolver and she would not need to use her left hand to rack the slide.
Unfortunately her husband was with her and "confirmed" what clerk had just stated. I wanted to walk up to the lady and advise her to disregard everything that Goober had just told her. But, I reminded myself that it was none of my business and went on my way.
It is a damned shame that, for the most part, gunshops and gunshows are the two WORST places to get firearms knowledge. Even worse than hollywood.
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Old May 16, 2012, 00:18   #59
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A LGS had a pre ban Springfield Armory Izzy HB on the wall. I seriously thought about buying it and was giving it a through inspection when the counter drone launches into the BS.

"That rifle was made for the CIA so they could give unmarked guns to the Contras"

I pointed out that the receiver was clearly marked 'Springfield Armory, Geneseo Ill".

"Nope. It was made for covert ops so it couldn't get traced back to the US".

I pointed out that every part except the receiver had Hebrew marking.

"It's scrubbed so no one can tell where it came from".

Ya can't fix stupid.
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Old May 16, 2012, 18:07   #60
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True story today at the local shop. Was grabbing some 22 cause it was on sale and a fella shopping said " you better stock up for July ".....knowing better but being curious and bored i asked what was happening in July,. He proceeded. To tell. Me that he heard on the news that Obama was going to declare martial law. He began to tell me about the over 200,000 UN troops.staged here in the US awaiting the word from Barrak. He said they are in texas and n carolina. He also said they are planning on cutting cell phone and internet for hours and said he tbinks the govt might do it to us until martial law ends....wow. got my ammo and ran to the counter, lol.
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Old May 18, 2012, 04:18   #61
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A LGS had a pre ban Springfield Armory Izzy HB on the wall. I seriously thought about buying it and was giving it a through inspection when the counter drone launches into the BS.

"That rifle was made for the CIA so they could give unmarked guns to the Contras"

I pointed out that the receiver was clearly marked 'Springfield Armory, Geneseo Ill".

"Nope. It was made for covert ops so it couldn't get traced back to the US".

I pointed out that every part except the receiver had Hebrew marking.

"It's scrubbed so no one can tell where it came from".

Ya can't fix stupid.
If you had the HB in your hands, how on God's green earth did you keep from butt stroking the 'tard?
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Old May 18, 2012, 09:50   #62
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True story today at the local shop. Was grabbing some 22 cause it was on sale and a fella shopping said " you better stock up for July ".....knowing better but being curious and bored i asked what was happening in July,. He proceeded. To tell. Me that he heard on the news that Obama was going to declare martial law. He began to tell me about the over 200,000 UN troops.staged here in the US awaiting the word from Barrak. He said they are in texas and n carolina. He also said they are planning on cutting cell phone and internet for hours and said he tbinks the govt might do it to us until martial law ends....wow. got my ammo and ran to the counter, lol.
I heard that same thing during Klinton's last term, also in a gun shop. Unless they're mexican troops, they may have trouble blending in.
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Old May 18, 2012, 10:16   #63
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I have given several of my rifles female names.


I was in a Gander mountain recently. I over heard a clerk "splainin'" why the middle aged woman needed a revolver instead of an automatic. His reasoning was that if she had a revolver, she could push the bad guy away with her left hand and use her free hand to draw the revolver and she would not need to use her left hand to rack the slide.
Unfortunately her husband was with her and "confirmed" what clerk had just stated. I wanted to walk up to the lady and advise her to disregard everything that Goober had just told her. But, I reminded myself that it was none of my business and went on my way.
It is a damned shame that, for the most part, gunshops and gunshows are the two WORST places to get firearms knowledge. Even worse than hollywood.
Gander Mountain is notorious for hiring retards to sell guns. I have never met one who knew a damn thing about anything they had on the wall or behind the counter.

I have heard plenty of BS from one of the shops I frequent. I saw one customer get told a RRA AR15 was the same thing they were using overseas and that this is what they guy needed if he wanted a "serious rifle." Of course this rifle had rails and all kinds of doodads on it and was extremely marked up for what it was. I felt like smacking the customer and the sales person. Part of me thinks, however, if you are going to buy something (ammo, gun, etc) you should do a little research before dropping the cash. The internet has a wealth of information and reviews.
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Old May 19, 2012, 10:11   #64
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I heard that same thing during Klinton's last term, also in a gun shop. Unless they're mexican troops, they may have trouble blending in.
Can you imagine a bunch of dutch, belgiun or even french in blue berets trying to disarm us not sure how that would go, but i got a few ideas,lol.
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Old May 26, 2012, 20:27   #65
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I heard one the other day that just screams BS. Guy who worked in the LGS was telling a customer that the Desert Eagle pistol was developed by the Israelis for the sole purpose of shooting down Soviet helicopters. I butted in and said they had FAL's that would deliver a far more potent punch and he continued on with how the .357 and .44 magnums were better at punching through the helicopter engine blocks and that they could be used in heavily populated areas. WTF????!!!???. Do the Israelis really care what they carry in heavily populated areas? Some people can't help themselves I guess.
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Old May 26, 2012, 22:20   #66
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Shoulda told him you had an 88magnum, it shoots thru schools......
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Old May 27, 2012, 09:22   #67
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There's nothing wrong with not knowing much about guns. We all started there.

What I hate is ignorance that's either willfully resistant to correction or dishonest - which are usually the kinds we see. If I asked a question about a gun and somebody on either side of the counter said, "I'm not really sure about that. Let's look it up in (Shooter's Bible/Flayderman's/Guns of the World) and find the answer." I'm certain I'd die right there from surprise.

When I go to buy furniture, I don't try to tell the sales guy the difference between oak and maple, but at gun shops, there's some different vibe.

When I was just learning about FALs, I was looking at a Century R1A1 on a gun store shelf. I was a bit confused, so I asked, "Is this a Metric or Inch pattern rifle?" The counter guy said, "Oh, it's both! It's 7.62 in metric and .308 in inch!"
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Old May 27, 2012, 12:18   #68
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I was going to add something but you covered it all. I seen or heard all of that working part time in a gun shop running my tables at a gun show or hanging out at my Dad's shop.

I've come to the conclusion that most firearms owners shouldn't be
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Old May 29, 2012, 13:41   #69
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Can you imagine a bunch of dutch, belgiun or even french in blue berets trying to disarm us not sure how that would go, but i got a few ideas,lol.
You don't want to mess with us

We will throw our terrible fries grenades !


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Old May 31, 2012, 20:26   #70
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It's widespread on the other side of the counter, too...
No doubt about that. The silly things can happen on either side of the counter. I was in the market for an FNP-9M to use as a carry pistol a few years ago, and stopped by my local store, hoping they had one in stock I could look at and possibly purchase. They didn't, but while the sales guy had my ear he asked if I was interested in a S&W M&P Compact. I said go ahead, tell me about it. He gets all warmed up and starts his spiel. When he finally took a breath, I asked if I could take a closer look at it; he got all excited and said I could look at his (on his belt), then proceeded to unholster his carry pistol and hand it to me fully loaded with a round in the chamber. I looked at him oddly for a second, then asked if he really meant to hand me a loaded firearm, while gently setting it down on the glass. He said, "Shiiiit! No, no, no I just got carried away." I thought, damn dude, your lucky your boss didn't see that.

Nice guy; not a thinker.


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Old June 01, 2012, 10:33   #71
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There's nothing wrong with not knowing much about guns. We all started there.

What I hate is ignorance that's either willfully resistant to correction or dishonest - which are usually the kinds we see.
Sometimes folks just can't stand looking clueless, sometimes salesman just want to make a sale.

But, I have a theory as to why gun shops are breeding a whole new category of stupid: I think deep down every American man knows he is "supposed to know" about the profession of arms. But, we live in an emasculated society, one in which half of all homes do not have a DADDY to teach them about manly pursuits, one in which schools and govt actively try to scare children away from even thinking about a gun. So, when Johnny hits 25 or 30, he is still as clueless as he was at age 4 or 5. If he happens to wander into a shop, or even get a job at a shop, he probably doesn't have the stones to say "I have no clue on that." because he has never seen his Daddy model that behavior and instruct him that admitting your faults actually requires larger stones. Instead, it is easier to talk about shooting down Hinds with a Deagle or shooting tumbling bullets from his M16 ne Ar15.

Yamato would no longer have to worry about a gun behind every blade of grass these days. The shortage of riflemen behind the rifles would make that a moot point.
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Old June 01, 2012, 12:56   #72
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Yamato would no longer have to worry about a gun behind every blade of grass these days. The shortage of riflemen behind the rifles would make that a moot point.
What about all the Airsoft ARs out there ?
I'm sure the blizzard of plastic projectiles coming their way from the "weapons" of the Mall Ninjas would more than discourage most would be attackers.
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Old June 01, 2012, 22:06   #73
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from chet

What about all the Airsoft ARs out there ?
I'm sure the blizzard of plastic projectiles coming their way from the "weapons" of the Mall Ninjas would more than discourage most would be attackers.
They would use inflatable anime characters as airsoft bullet magnets to draw fire away from the F15/robots destroying our cities.
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Old June 01, 2012, 23:40   #74
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Clueless idiots and guns, what a wonderful combination!
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Old June 03, 2012, 15:10   #75
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New story for you guys.

Ok so I'll change the names of those involved for the sake of the innocent (and not-so-innocent). I was not directly involved in any of the following (other than speaking once), other than being the "other" full-time sales clerk within earshot who heard/saw the whole sequence of events.

A few months ago some guy who we'll call "Joules" buys a SlideFire stock from us for his AR. Now, I'm not a fan of those chinsy toys myself but that's aside the point. Our shop is a dealer of them and I have no say in the matter.

Anyway, homeboy buys the SlideFire stock about two months ago (maybe 1.5 months but whatever) and a few days ago he comes back, trying to return it without a receipt. He says his fiancée found out about him buying it and how much it cost (something like $359 or something ridiculous like that; being a dealer we have to agree to their MAP policy).

The manager informs him that without a receipt we cannot accept returned, opened packages after two weeks from initial purchase (as is our policy). "Joules" meekly lowers his head and saunters out of the shop.

The following day, he comes back with his AR lower (a Spike's tactical, for those wondering) with one of those gaudy over-sized tetragon-shaped trigger-guards on it with the words "Zombie Killer" emblazened in bold on the bottom. He says the stock wont fit. The manager points out to him that the non-standard aftermarket cosmetic accessory is impeding in the function of the stock. He offers to replace it with a magpul or standard trigger-guard (at no charge) to allow for the proper function of the SlideFire stock.

Joules huffs and puffs and spouts, "Will it say 'Zombie Killer' on it?" (at this point I really wanted to say "YES!", thinking I could just print out a sticky tag with those words printed on it and cut to fit the new trigger-guard, but I kept my inner smartass in check and kept my mouth shut).

At this point the manager says tersely, "No."

"Well then I don't want to do that!" Joules says with his countenance reddening.

I finally say, "We can dremel a notch in the bottom plate of your SlideFire stock so it clears your current trigger-guard. The bottom of it is not really needed anyway and it wont affect function. It'll take me 5 minutes."

My manager looks at me and gives me the "Not bad" smug look of this being resolved. Joules stares at me blankly for a few moments, turns back to the manager and says, "It says on the box that it will fit any AR with a carbine tube. My AR has a carbine tube. It's false advertising and if it doesn't fit I want my money back."

"Well, you should have tested it out when you first got it, and not waited well over a month to do so," the manager explained, "I can buy it back from you for $250 since the package is opened and there is no receipt. I'm afraid that's the best I can do. We offered to correct the issue for you at no cost and you declined. If you have further issue with how the product was presented on the packaging, I suggest you take it up with the manufacturer of the SlideFire stock."

Our part-time semi-retired sarcastic Navy veteran clerk pipes in and says, "Sounds like your girlfriend is the problem here. I suggest you return her, and keep the stock. Trust me, it'll be more fun in the long run."

We both laugh, the manager resists the urge.

At this point "Joules" becomes irate and storms out. An hour later he calls and the manager picks up, and I hear the manager say, "Look man, I don't know what you want me to tell you, we've made every attempt to be reasonable to make it work."

The following day (yesterday) he comes in yet again. The manager was not in, as per normal Saturday scheduling. This time he walks up to the older of the two of us (The sarcastic semi-retired Navy vet) and begins his spiel:

"If you don't refund my money in full, I'm going to contact the editor of the [insert local newspaper here] about how [insert name of our gunshop here] stole my money! And then I'm going to stand out front on the sidewalk with a sign that says [insert name of our gunshop here] stole my money and I'll tell anyone coming here about how you stole my money!"

(I honestly thought he was going to stomp his feet and hold his breath with his arms crossed like a spoiled 2 year old not getting his way.)

The sarcastic semi-retired Navy veteran replies, "Ok, sounds good, thanks for everything and good luck." and proceeds to stick out his hand to shake "Joules'" hand.

"Joules", in a fit of dumbstruck rage, looks around confused, and in a moment of bewildered shock, shakes his hand, drops the SlideFire stock, grunts, picks it up and storms out.

Myself, the sarcastic semi-retired Navy veteran and the three other patrons in the shop exchange glances, and after a few moments we all burst into laughter.

True to his word, "Joules" was out front with a big sign saying exactly what he said it would say. He was there for the rest of the business day, and ironically, it was one of the busiest (customer traffic) Saturdays I can remember.

Several patrons who arrived thereafter inquired as to the reason "Joules" had nothing better to do on a Saturday than partake in a one-man pout protest, and the sarcastic semi-retired Navy vet was more than happy to recount the story numerous times.

And this post, I shall dedicate to "Joules". Thanks man, for all the free advertising!
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Old June 03, 2012, 17:41   #76
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After ten years of working in a gun store, my most favorite "DUMA$$" story is the guy who was filling out a 4473, and when he came to the block labelled "Date", he asked "What's today's date?" I told him the date, and he asks "What month is it?", so I told him, and then, honest to god, he asks "What year is it?"
I had to go to the men's room and laugh it off, while someone else answered the rest of his questions.
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Old June 03, 2012, 18:24   #77
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No doubt about that. The silly things can happen on either side of the counter. I was in the market for an FNP-9M to use as a carry pistol a few years ago, and stopped by my local store, hoping they had one in stock I could look at and possibly purchase. They didn't, but while the sales guy had my ear he asked if I was interested in a S&W M&P Compact. I said go ahead, tell me about it. He gets all warmed up and starts his spiel. When he finally took a breath, I asked if I could take a closer look at it; he got all excited and said I could look at his (on his belt), then proceeded to unholster his carry pistol and hand it to me fully loaded with a round in the chamber. I looked at him oddly for a second, then asked if he really meant to hand me a loaded firearm, while gently setting it down on the glass. He said, "Shiiiit! No, no, no I just got carried away." I thought, damn dude, your lucky your boss didn't see that.

Nice guy; not a thinker.


HR
I doubt gun shops pay well enough that they attract the guys who say "well, I got accepted at Harvard, but I chose to sell guns instead...."
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Old June 03, 2012, 18:56   #78
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Visited a gunshop couple years back and was looking at a rack of rifles against the wall. The shop had like 3 case displays with the rack behind one of them. So I'm looking at an AK and I hear the clerk yell agressively 'Sir can you step back behind the counter". I look at him in disdain and ask if he expects me to buy a rifle without looking at it closely. He says "Everybody else does from behind the counter". Mind you the rifles were chained together. Clerk had a pistol on his hip and was looking at me like I was the enemy...WTF....just me and him in the store and a female in the back.

Told him have a nice day, good luck selling guns and crossed that shop off my list. Stupid is as stupid does.
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Old June 03, 2012, 20:42   #79
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I doubt gun shops pay well enough that they attract the guys who say "well, I got accepted at Harvard, but I chose to sell guns instead...."
It pays well enough for a man of simple means such as myself. I don't even get commission.

To some it's not about the pay, it's about the role in perpetuating the gun culture or at least playing a part in that role. Not all workers at gun shops have the same mentality, and in many cases it can (like any sales position) fertilize arrogance in their related field.

But I learn from our customers as much as others might learn from me. It keeps me current, plus getting certain items at dealer cost is a huge perk (considering how much I shoot) so one might say my own personal motivation isn't entirely noble.

I started this post as a means to vent. Not everyone who comes into the shop makes me facepalm, but a solid 10-25% does. Those are the focus of my initial post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatt earp
Visited a gunshop couple years back and was looking at a rack of rifles against the wall. The shop had like 3 case displays with the rack behind one of them. So I'm looking at an AK and I hear the clerk yell agressively 'Sir can you step back behind the counter". I look at him in disdain and ask if he expects me to buy a rifle without looking at it closely. He says "Everybody else does from behind the counter". Mind you the rifles were chained together. Clerk had a pistol on his hip and was looking at me like I was the enemy...WTF....just me and him in the store and a female in the back.

Told him have a nice day, good luck selling guns and crossed that shop off my list. Stupid is as stupid does.
I'm lucky that at our shop we encourage customers to step behind the counter to inspect our long guns at their leisure. Handguns are still under glass but we inform them we're more than happy to show them any they wish to handle.
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Old June 03, 2012, 22:36   #80
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Harvard ?
It costs a whole lot of money.
Some folks are there because they had ENOUGH money, or someone ELSE did, to buy their way in, I think.
Our current President, for example.

Smarts in a gun shop ?
Or, maybe retail in general ?
I have seen some folks that were OBVIOUSLY extremely intelligent selling guns and other goods as well as managing the operations.
Also, folks that were much less so, on occasion.
They all have a story and sometimes it is quite interesting.

Drop the Harvard thing.
As a yardstick, it sometimes is too much and sometimes too little.
Class warfare actually.
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Old June 08, 2012, 11:38   #81
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Harvard ?
It costs a whole lot of money.
Some folks are there because they had ENOUGH money, or someone ELSE did, to buy their way in, I think.
Our current President, for example.

Smarts in a gun shop ?
Or, maybe retail in general ?
I have seen some folks that were OBVIOUSLY extremely intelligent selling guns and other goods as well as managing the operations.
Also, folks that were much less so, on occasion.
They all have a story and sometimes it is quite interesting.

Drop the Harvard thing.
As a yardstick, it sometimes is too much and sometimes too little.
Class warfare actually.
Second this. Some people conflate education and intelligence, mostly people who are educated and think this makes them smart. Ironically, this is not a smart assumption to make. To generalize, I think people assume they possess some quality due to a title or achievement only when they can't find evidence of it in their own behavior. You see this in the guy who thinks he's smart because he's got a master's degree but supports gun control; the holy roller who assumes he's tight with Jesus because he's a big man in his church, but cheats in his business dealings and hits his wife; the tree-hugger type who can't shut up about his love for the planet, but buys a new Prius each year; the guy who assumes he's manly because he like steak, guns, and football, but acts whiny, flaky, and gossipy. A lot of people need to quit worrying about what people think about them and just be the best they can. After all, the only people who care about winning a dick-measuring contest are people with small dicks.
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Old June 24, 2012, 00:53   #82
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33. Grown adults handling a firearm, pointing it in some direction and making shooting sound effects.
I do this all the time with the weapons I own!!! D:
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Old June 24, 2012, 22:32   #83
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Was at the LGS a couple days ago and got to hear this classic:

Clerk to customer explaining difference in "knockdown power" to a customer,

"The .45 has a lot of knock down power. It's because it has a slow, heavy bullet."

Ok so far..........but then he continued....

"So, when you fire it, the bullet travels just ahead of the shock wave. So when something gets hit, it gets hit by the heavy bullet first, and then hit by the shock wave. That's why it's so effective."
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