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Old April 24, 2008, 04:09   #51
halfinchharvard
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Not sure if it's been pointed out yet, but many of these items are for "pre hospital setting" and therefore fairly useless in a survival situation without vascular surgens and facilities close at hand. You can only push saline for so long, pretty soon the patient will be bleeding clear fluid. has anyone figured out how to store blood in their getaway cabin?
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Old June 12, 2008, 08:17   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by halfinchharvard
Not sure if it's been pointed out yet, but many of these items are for "pre hospital setting" and therefore fairly useless in a survival situation without vascular surgens and facilities close at hand. You can only push saline for so long, pretty soon the patient will be bleeding clear fluid. has anyone figured out how to store blood in their getaway cabin?
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Surely the best place to store blood in a getaway cabin would be in other family members. How can a medic determine blood type in the field? Blood transfusions started in aid staions not far behind the front-line trenches of France, must be pretty easy to do?
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Old June 12, 2008, 14:54   #53
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Originally posted by Monkeyman
How can a medic determine blood type in the field?
In the book Lucifer's Hammer, the technique is explained.

Short version

A drop of your blood in a small amount of saline, a drop of someone elses blood in the same saline.

Shake it a bit.

Put it under a microscope, if it's not clumped you two can donate to each other.

Note that on a 3x5 card for each of you.

You have to xreference everyone to everyone to make sure. Lots of work ahead of time but saves time in a SHTF emergency.

Not true "in the field" type of medicine but you get the idea.
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Old October 27, 2008, 04:08   #54
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I know this is an old thread but I just found it so it's new to me.....

As far as storing blood in your cabin, probably not a good idea for the long term, here is some info regarding that...they rotate and throw blood out for a reason.
http://www.givelife2.org/aboutblood/faq.asp

It is also accepted practice to administer blood after the 3rd liter of isotinic solution due to those solutions not carrying oxygen and only turning your blood into kool aide. So I guess that means that you don't need to carry 10 bags of 1000ml normal saline or LR for yourself. Nevermind that might weigh a ton since fluid is heavy.

The reality is that you mainly need to concentrate on the basics. Simple bleeding control, bandages, tourniquets and how and when to use them. Fracture stablization and splinting etc also come to mind. You also need to focus on the combat/practical aspects of that type of care. Most of the EMT/paramedic training focuses on the non-combat aspect of that care and is actually limited in itself under such circumstances. I know that my next statement is going to ruffle some feathers, however it still remains true. Civilian EMT's and paramedics are not trained to deliver their care under fire and during a tactical scenario, they are actually trained to avoid such a situation and deal with it after everything has been made safe for them. Imagine doing those same skills under fire, low or no light conditions.

I always like to point out to people during a bad trauma, it takes approx 2 minutes to exanguinate (bleed out) from an arterial bleed and it takes approx 4-5 minutes of not breathing or suffocation to cause brain and cardiac death. This again goes against the standard that civilian medics are trained to because the tourniquet comes before the ABCs(airway, breathing, circulation) Knowing when to and not to use hemostatic agents like QuikClot for example is also very helpful.

Once you start getting into the more involved issues like surgery and physically opening someone up, then you have a host of other problems to deal with like sepsis which itself will kill someone very quickly. Again, not recomended unless you actually know what you are doing and can keep your environment sterile.

The other thing to consider is that you actually have to stay proficient with the skills that you have/use otherwise they are useless. By that I mean that you have to have enough practice and knowledge to perform, lets say suturing. I have known paramedics who have never performed a cricothyrotomy in a 15+ year long career. It's not a difficult skill however if one has never done one then how proficent are they? They are not.

Getting back to the original question, as stated above, you will be better off putting a kit together from pieces that suits your needs rather then buying a stocked EMT bag.

Just my .4 cents.
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Old June 02, 2011, 18:41   #55
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Zombietime.

Reference readin' thread :
http://www.falfiles.com/groups/showt...hreadid=301693

Suggested addition to load out (also found in your local Qwikie-Mart, by the coffee sugars) Yoinkyoinkyoink
http://www.amazon.com/Kraft-Pure-Hon.../dp/B001652KD8

PS: Question - anyone packing (feminine hygiene) tampons? Both for primary intended use and to plug exit wounds (they started showing up in Aid Bags).

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Old August 02, 2011, 19:36   #56
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OIF SILVERLON DRESSING PRODUCT REPORT
274TH FORWARD SURGICAL TEAM (AIRBORNE)
1 DECEMBER 2006
Randall A. Espinosa MD, FACS

Warning : graphic images. Prolly NSFW for some folks.


http://www.silverlon.com/distributor...lon_Cases.html
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Old March 13, 2012, 20:00   #57
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Time is limited tonight but thought I would add this.
I am not a medic and don't like to see my own blood. (Apparently other people's blood is OK though.) If you are trying to set up a medical kit that includes antibiotics, go to surviving healthy dot com and "talk" with Dr Bob. He interviews you and sells you antibiotics that will do you good.

Good luck.
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Old March 12, 2013, 09:15   #58
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Resurrection




What should be in an individual medical kit (small enough to wear on belt). What should be the goal? I assume a single GSW.

A medical kit for the car? (bigger than individual, smaller than a pack.)

A family medical kit. (3-6 months off the grid? Does not have to be portable, can include individual medical kits based on each member's needs and ability)

A team/platoon medic bag (medium backpack size, must be carried in addition to personal gear, so pay attention to weight.

A SHTF Patrol base infirmary? This is the dream setup. But assume no electricity.
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Old March 12, 2013, 11:59   #59
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Resurrection




What should be in an individual medical kit (small enough to wear on belt). What should be the goal? I assume a single GSW.

A medical kit for the car? (bigger than individual, smaller than a pack.)

A family medical kit. (3-6 months off the grid? Does not have to be portable, can include individual medical kits based on each member's needs and ability)

A team/platoon medic bag (medium backpack size, must be carried in addition to personal gear, so pay attention to weight.

A SHTF Patrol base infirmary? This is the dream setup. But assume no electricity.
This is probably an iterative process but I'll take a whack at it... note that recommendations assume you can handle the equipment. If you can't, then pack something more useful, like gauze/pads.

What should be in an individual medical kit (small enough to wear on belt). What should be the goal? I assume a single GSW.
Trauma shears, oral airway, nasal trumpet, tourniquet, tape, 11 blade scalpel, 2 16G angiocaths with stopcocks, gloves, 2 tylenol, 1 oz betadine, fill rest of space with dressing materials. Have never used quickclot but might be considered.

A medical kit for the car? (bigger than individual, smaller than a pack.)
Above plus trauma manual, lots of gloves/protective gear, hard collar, suture and instrument kit, various OTC drugs (tylenol, aspirin, ibuprofen, benadryl at a minimum), 2 thin blankets, stethoscope.

A family medical kit. (3-6 months off the grid? Does not have to be portable, can include individual medical kits based on each member's needs and ability)
This would be huge and likely stored in several large Tupperware containers and/or tool or tackle boxes. Subtract anything I mention that you can't use and replace it with bulk gauze, gloves, ammo, something you can actually use. I use one large Tupperware that is about 2' x 3' x 1.5' for bulk disposables (gloves, gauze, saline, etc) and a lockable red plastic tool box for drugs and instruments- I would also keep 2 headlights with plenty of batteries. You need large quantities of betadine, isopropyl alcohol (with 2 spray bottles for application), gauze, tubing, fracture stabilization supplies, IVs, sterile drapes, sterile instrument trays, chest tubes of various sizes with pleurevac chambers if possible, foley catheters and non-refrigerated drugs. If they require refrigeration and have a long shelf life you may be able to store them in a nearby creek bed, underground, etc depending on conditions (probably not in AZ). If it has a short shelf life, don't bother. Type 2 diabetics: lose weight now.

If you know someone who will prescribe drugs to you for future SHTF use (good luck) then I would focus on the following: Cipro, Levaquin, Bactrim, Augmentin, Penicillin, Flagyl, Keflex, Diflucan (supps and pills). You need to know what infections to use these for but MD "pharmacopeia" reference pocketbooks can help. You also need a reference for safety in pregnancy and breastfeeding, many of those pocketbooks have that data. Would also get some other basic meds: benzodiazepines and narcotics, metoprolol, isosorbide mono- or dinitrate, laxatives, ondansetron, Imodium.

A team/platoon medic bag (medium backpack size, must be carried in addition to personal gear, so pay attention to weight.
Car set plus isotonic and hypertonic saline, more IVs, protective gear, tubing, compression bags, pressure cuff, oral and rectal thermometers, shitload of gauze and tourniquets. Need to multiply number of items in car set to treat more squad members simultaneously.

A SHTF Patrol base infirmary? This is the dream setup. But assume no electricity.
Family kit in multiples to handle mass trauma, basically. Would also include items for OB/GYN (specula, infant care items) and more comprehensive reference materials. If you had solar power then you could probably get some basic monitoring equipment or an AED to round things out.


I also note that there are many, many errors in the preceding posts. Thankfully, we have already addressed the most egregious one in another post.
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Old March 12, 2013, 12:06   #60
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If you want to know your blood type and help your community then donate to the Red Cross and have your family members do the same. Any young children will may have been typed at birth, you may be able to get those records. If you want to do that then get a chart showing the compatible types.

Major transfusion reactions can be fatal. I don't know the lab procedure to cross blood types but I would not trust a fictional novel to explain it. Despite hospital controls we still have the occasional major reaction- be warned, it's not that simple.
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Old June 13, 2013, 23:52   #61
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Quickclot

Quickclot powder sucks it will get into anything wet for example eyes, mouth, nose if the wind is blowing and it will cause damage even blindness. I had to pull it from all of my med bags and replace it with combat gauze. combat gauze is Quickclot impregnated gauze. Even combat gauze causes problems when you take it off. Best way to stop bleeding is direct pressure, roll of kerlix placed over the wound then wrapped tight with an ace wrap.
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Old June 14, 2013, 00:54   #62
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If you want to know your blood type and help your community then donate to the Red Cross and have your family members do the same. Any young children will may have been typed at birth, you may be able to get those records. If you want to do that then get a chart showing the compatible types.

Major transfusion reactions can be fatal. I don't know the lab procedure to cross blood types but I would not trust a fictional novel to explain it. Despite hospital controls we still have the occasional major reaction- be warned, it's not that simple.
You can buy blood typing kits - I recall using one in HS. They are based on antibodies, like you would use in an ELISA test, which would be specific to either the A or B type and would both bind an AB blood type and not bind to an O type and would be repeated for the presence of the Rh factor which would bind if present and be noted negative by its absence, like an O blood type tested against the anti-A and anti-B Abs.

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/blo.../p/BE-BLDTEST/
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Old September 08, 2013, 18:07   #63
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This doesn't look too hard to WECSOG.
http://www.stripes.com/news/game-cha...lives-1.235791

Weightbelt + salvaged sphygmomanometer + breathing bag?
http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20080281351_07
http://www.kingsystems.com/medical-d...manufacturers/

$525!!???? Holy gutwounds, Batman.
http://www.shop.coldfiresoutheast.co...niquet-AAT.htm

http://www.shop.coldfiresoutheast.co...structions.jpg

http://www.abdominalaortictourniquet.com/

The downloads at the bottom of this page might be worthwhile -
http://www.speeroptech.com/page6/

Particularly
http://www.speeroptech.com/resources...sion_paper.pdf
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Old November 07, 2014, 23:47   #64
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All of my trucks have a DOT compliant medical kit with basics like bandaids, gauze, tape, aspirin and most things found in a decent kit for working mans truck or on wall of fabrication shop.

The next three are my add ons that I carry based on distance from house and peceived possible needs. I have a Wilderness First Responders License (active) and EMT License (expired). If going on expedition out of country carry my big kit which is not pictured and is transported on burro or by porter.



The next kit is small and has the few things always handy but seldom in an over the counter medical kit. Stethoscope, CPR barrier, basic suture set, prescription antimicrobials, anaphalytic shock basics, few pain meds, gastrointestinal bug meds, etc.



Add on kit two contains most of the perscription meds to cover an emergeny that happens far enough from the hospital to ease someones symptoms as package for transport. Couple of splints also and with truck box and kit 1 this puts me in decent shape to work, especially if more than a few stitches or tracheotomy, etc.



Kit 3 adds the critial, more than an hour from any medical care injectibles and eye care supplies. Eyeballs are tricky and sometimes if foreign object not removed immediately and proper meds used an infection will run rampant quickly. By breaking kit into multiple smaller kits I can take just as much as feel necessary or mix and match.



Keep your CPR Certification current and any others you may have acquired in past. I let my EMT go due to lack of time for required continuous education. I still keep up by reading new information and reviewing older info as getting a tad forgetful. Bottom line is you can only fix what you have tools and supplies for. These three kits take less than 1/2 of a Harley saddle bad with the simple Boy Scout Kit added. Dont carry supplies you dont know how to use. While an I.V. Saline is handy I seldom carry as so bulky and can get fluids in if really have to. Every year when I have my annual checkup all of my kits go to doctor with me. We pilfer and he takes all out of date and either replaces with fresh if unobtanium at pharmacy or writes scripts to replace others that have expired. Costs 300 to 500 per year to keep all in current dates. Home kit is super fat but doesnt leave home. At my annual eye doctor visit he replaces all of the eye specific supplies and adds anything new he thinks may need. A good magnet is mandatory for getting metal filings and shavings out of eye without digging.

Since I am getting spanked for my propensity towards being detailed will cut it off. If anyone has specific questions will be happy to give any advice that won't get me in trouble for practicing medicine. I can lay sutures and stitches with the best. Six months as a veterenarians surgical assistant was darn good training. If you can start an I.V. on a cat you have it whipped.
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Old November 08, 2014, 10:33   #65
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You also need a surgical set. I recommend NSN 6545-00957-7650. That and a bottle of Motrin and you are GTG.

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Old November 11, 2014, 15:42   #66
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SAFN49,
Everything in kit you pictured is in my kits. I have a way of splitting gear so that any one bag gives a minimum for a wide assortment of events, the more bags I add, the more tools to do complicated work easier. My kit #1 has suture thread and set of curved and straight hemos. If I have to sew with it I give you a stick to chew on. If I have kit two it adds a second set of hemos and scissors and you get a pill a few minutes before I go to stabbing you repeatedly with small needle. If kits 1 through 3 are with me victim gets to be relatively comfortable. I even have the choice of injectible morphine or toradol according to any allergies. Never want to pop someone in the field with sweet mother morphine if they have an allergy as you won't recover them before you get to real help.

Anytime I go on a trip everyone is required to write allergies and diseases in my medical kit journal. Whether we are going rock climbing, mountaineering or motorcycle riding. All my riding partners detailed info is accessible to me if they are unconscious. At a rally a few years ago fellow did something really dumb. He didn't want to go to emergency room for fear of them running a tox report. Word got around and I was asked to sew him up. Was about to glove up and remembered I had not interviewed the patient. I have two 3"x5" index cards with the questions you have to remember to ask.

I had lidocane out, suture set cleaned, gloves, mask and about to sew when the interview dawned on me last minute. Turns out damn fool had hepatitis C and had not bothered to tell a soul and there were already one guy and two bitches covered in blood. I said whoops, someone needs to transport him as I am not sewing and risking Hep-C just because he was scared of the tox report. I advised the three blood covered helpers to go clean up fast, and then do it again with alcohol, gasoline or whatever and go to the hospital too. That is when one of the women said it didn't matter as she already had Hep-C too. Proper patient interview is the most important part of treatment. If have a chance, do it before the accident.

We should all know our friends diseases and allergies. I wear a medicalert bracelet and have one of these around my neck.



If unresponsive most important info engraved and around wrist. Last three years medical records with most recent MRI and x-ray images are around my neck anytime I leave the house. Doctor says I have to as the brain cancer caused some issues Emergency Room Doctor has to know if I am unresponsive.

gunplumber,
if find myself in Texas I am going to either buy you a beer or fire a shot across the bow of your boat just as a howdy do. Thanx for guiding me when to be wordy and not. I am naturally very detailed in even the most mundane conversation.
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Old November 12, 2014, 04:55   #67
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gunplumber,
if find myself in Texas I am going to either buy you a beer or fire a shot across the bow of your boat just as a howdy do. Thanx for guiding me when to be wordy and not. I am naturally very detailed in even the most mundane conversation.
If you're ever in TX, GP is anywhere from 400 to 1200 miles away.
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Old November 12, 2014, 07:23   #68
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Duhh! Arizona Resonse Systems means Arizona. If.contract go through be there for Barret Jacson Auto Auction in a couple months.
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Old November 13, 2014, 10:48   #69
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For what it's worth, this post is a sticky because it is meant as a permanent reference for a common question - Medical kits.

It's really no place for your off topic car show stuff.
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Old November 13, 2014, 22:12   #70
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So here is the next group of medical kits. While some.redundancy with first group, 85% are additional items that allow expanded treatment options. The yellow kit has field surgical tools such as scalpels, artery clamp, more hemostats, disenfecting materials and self dissolving suture thread. The black pellican case has epi-pen, additonal allergy meds and extra varios size syringes.



Each kit has varied items but has a mostly primary mission specific items fory a particular use. Some are missing items as the ones that store best refrigerated I did not dig out of cold storage in vegitable crisper. Next up is what we are going to call kit number 5. We are skipping four as looks just like the previous clear top pellican case just has the injectible narcotics.



Kit number 5 contains mostly pain relieving creams and comfort items. The Voltaren cream is a prescription INSAID like celebrex or Meloxicam for relief of aching joints like knees or elbows. Works great on my hands when carpal tunnel flares up. Next to it is a topical cream from compounding pharmacy that cost 600 dollars a tube and worth every dime. Rub it on and pain is gone. The rest of creams are over the counter and help with minor joint pain. It also has mole foam for padding wounds or blisters on feet. In upper left corner are my dental tools. It also has a few general purpose items and a quick reference medical guide.



Above we will call kit 6. It is mostly more prescription meds to augment kit with other scripts. Most of these are specialized for intense intestinal issues, infections, altittude sickness and others. This combined with other oral meds covers most maladies I can diagnose in field from symptoms without blood tests or other complicated testing. In the bottom is also a blood pressure cuff.



This kit is designed to carry meds that need to stay cold. It holds medicine in center and holds freeze packs around the meds. I use it for Forteo which is to help my spine repair hopefully without surgery.



The last pic is a small pack next to an 18" AR15. This pack in this photo has four of the kits from my posts. It holds at least three but most any four small kits so I can choose the items that I feel most appropriate for a trip or I can add another small pack so my nine smaller kits can all go. I seldom feel the need to load all the small kits as if I need to load for bear I just grab my EMT kit. If anyone has any questions about a particular item feel free to ask.
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Old November 14, 2014, 10:43   #71
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So I've been contemplating a small blowout kit. The primary function of the kit is to fit in a double mag pouch. I'm thinking one or two battle dressings, quick clot tourniquet and some duct tape. But can it fit a mag pouch? That means its overall size can't exceed 2 AR mags. or 2 AK mags.

I have a really nice one by (voodoo?) that rips off it's backing - very clever. There is limited real estate for attaching Molle.

MY S&P stuff includes a chestpouch and mags for every rifle. I'll be handing these out to family members (perhaps).

I could do a half dozen blowout bags, but if I could get something to fit in a mag pouch, I think that would be cool.
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Old November 14, 2014, 17:26   #72
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I believe the current individual combat medical kit is worn on weak hand thigh. Like a drop leg bag similar to a drop leg holster. It is how my combat kits are set up. Mine has a container of quick clot, one small and one large battle dressing, tape, sharp but dull point bandage scissors, one pair latex gloves, small pump bottle antibacterial spray, piece of wide streach rubber for torniqette, 4 10/325 lortabs, 12 perscription amphetimine tablets, one morphine auto injector and one epi-pen.

This kit gives individual to slow/stop bleeding to an injury to limb or torso, apply torniqette, take initial step to prevent infection, treat moderate pain and keep fighting or put major pain down. Amazing how well a person can operate even under influence of morphine in stressful situation. I expect a person injured bad enough to pop with morphine auto injector will be drug or crawl to cover and at least provide supressive fire unless fatally wounded, then they at least die quietly and in comfort as screaming gives strength to the enemy and distracts the team. Lortab or percocet if one works better than other does not affect mental function enough to matter but will allow someone a few hours of relief while staying in ths game.

Odds are by time a fighter with moderate or worse treatable wound is brought to cover, wound is exposed by removing or cutting off clothing using bandage scissors (why every EMT has scissors on belt as exposing injury as easily as possible and fast is imperative) the wound is going to be contaminated. Latex gloves take up no room and help keep treatment from adding more contaminants or passing of any blood borne disease. (30 to 40 percent of population have some sort of STD, hepititis, etc. If someone that shares dangerous situations with you and not willing to be honest about such will become liability as if embarassment is such an issue they don't tell then they will let you down when its time to risk personal safeth for team member.) Pick out big chunks, spray with antimicrobial, add quick clot if needed, top with dressing and tape it down tight as possible. Treat appropriately for pain and/or shock once behind cover.

A small group will quite possibly be involved in an extended situation where sleep is not an option. Most will either doze off or get punch drunk. Whether prescription or over counter enough of something to keep them awake 36 to 48 hours. Also any person that has specific daily medical needs such as diabetes meds they need.personal meds and other team mates need to know to administer even if they are unconsious. Diabetic coma or similar while wounded is not recoverable. I recommend personal meds kept elsewhere as emergency kits should be standard for group and only opened in event of injury, not to take a once or twice daily med but all team members need a card in their kit to remind others of special needs and what pocket they keep in.

When have a man down do best to treat with their kit. You may need yours later. Especially if a person has specific allergy to one of the common pain medicines and has to have something that doesn't kill them. Injectible Toradol is as good as morphine but most will be mostly paralyzed after injection and drug like dead weight unable to help ambulate themselves. At high altitude (12,000 feet and above) I try to use Toradol rather than morphine as does not depress respiration forcing you to bag them to keep oxygen flowing. Especially if don't have resuscitator bag.

The personal medical kit is to be as small as possible but able to stop someone from bleeding out and fighting if possible until situation stabilizes. I assume most people will be hunkering down and hiding in their chosen hardened location. While it may be necessary to meet an enemy by leaving your hole most should be fighting in place using preplanned and prepared cover, lanes of fire, etc. It may become necessary leave your position, travel to prearrainged prepared location or go on patrol to gather materials after prolonged event when supplies run short. The personal kit only stabilizes till medic can treat with more appropriate tools after heat of contact subsides. The full kit, someone capable to use it (God forbide your medic is the man down) why my plan includes three highly trained individuals and all are cross trained. If survival situation actually arises then during long boring spells each specialist will teach continuing education classes on their field of specialty.

So my rambling long post could become a dissertation time to cut it off. Parts finally arrived to finish last job of day. Everyone should go to this site. It enables you to print custom flash cards to study different situations applicable to EMT's. It is geared to those preparing for their state and national board exams. You can study all or just areas of interest.

http://www.flashcardmachine.com/emt-final.html
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