Witness Holes In Your FAL Mags: Yes/No?

gman · February 01, 2004, 14:05

I like the holes for the obvious reason: I get a good guess of how many rounds I have left. The other side is: they let in crud.

So, you like'em or not?

**EMDII** · February 01, 2004, 14:08

Not.

I guess after years of use, I have a sense of 'how many' most times. And I drill magazine replacements. No surprises, just opportunities to freshen up the mag.

Hawkish · February 01, 2004, 14:18

I like them! I made a jig to drill the holes. A little crud won't hurt unless you're talking about a "Poodle Shooter"!

Shrike · February 01, 2004, 14:26

I like them because when im at the range i dont always put all 20 rounds in the mags

Mike

Havoc · February 01, 2004, 14:32

Any hole that will let dirt in is bad. The bolt hold open will let you know when your empty, you can feel the difference in recoil. If you'r a paper puncher it doesn't matter how many you have left.

762minigun · February 01, 2004, 15:03

Geez guys why drill??
Just buy StG58 mags, they already have the holes in them. I only buy the Austrian mags $5.00 , unless I get Imbels for around a $1.00. Now before you all start asking, Dans Sporting Goods had them at Knob Creek for a $1.00 a year ago, but they were ugly.

Hawkish · February 01, 2004, 15:07

I bought a ship load of mags from Antares and Woofsburgbob a while back @ $3.00 ea. That's why I made the drill jig. I also blast and re-park them.

Para Driver · February 01, 2004, 20:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Havoc
The bolt hold open will let you know when your empty, you can feel the difference in recoil.

True but tactically incorrect...
buy the STG's when you can find them...

SpyderMan · February 01, 2004, 20:43

Well, since we're talking tactics....
You can swap an empty without taking your eyes off of your target. It is simply not possible to view the witness holes in the mag while inserted in the rifle and still have any clue as to what is going on down range. Witness holes in the mags are fine if you are at the range punching paper - and can take your time screwing around. In combat, witness holes are useless. If you've lost count and are worried about running out at the wrong time - swap in a fresh mag and retain the partial for later. For most couch commandos, it really makes no difference either way - buy whatever you like or can find cheap.

fastfreddy · February 02, 2004, 15:49

How's THIS for tactical.....? The Steyer mags have that greenish tint that matches the finish on my rifle. That's right, I buy 'em because I like the color. Never had a problem with one so why should I do otherwise.

mojo_matic · February 02, 2004, 16:44

I have at least 5 different types of freakin' FAL magazines (though not in massive quantities..three or four here, 5 or six there...). My favorite are the Steyer Austrian mags with witness holes. Quality is consistant...all very well made. Parked finish looks great, and don't look like hell after being locked n' loaded a handfull of times like the painted Imbels. Oh, I think the witness holes look cool...for whatever thats worth! I'm just a lowly "paper puncher" though. Wow, I didn't know that there were so many combat elitists preparing for an upcoming invasion here!

I HATE gettting my personal rifles dirty with anything other than CLP and carbon! I avoid nasty situations where dirt/crud could possibly end up in the witness holes.

Batman · February 02, 2004, 16:44

Quote:

Originally posted by SpyderMan
......... In combat, witness holes are useless. If you've lost count and are worried about running out at the wrong time - swap in a fresh mag and retain the partial for later. For most couch commandos, it really makes no difference either way - buy whatever you like or can find cheap.

ditto, when I'm in combat this weekend (range) I'll see if I can notice!

Anyone else with "combat experience" want to comment?

GUNNER0311 · February 02, 2004, 20:11

If TSHTF, I will not place a "tracer round" as the last fired as some nations do.

Instead, I will place a "tracer" as the 15th round in the magazine, which in the
stress of battle will give me a visual cue that I have five rounds to go before needing to reach for more. In battle, I feel the "true advantage" of the Bolt-
Hold Open Device is not really in telling you that you are empty. But rather, that
you can drop the empty mag, insert a fresh one; and then tap the release button to close the bolt and you are ready to resume sending greetings to the
enemy. It simply saves you time, by not having to actually reach up and "rack
the action" to chamber the first round in your new mag. I remember how simple and fast it was when firing the M-14 to drop the empty mag, insert the
fresh one and "tap" the bolt release to chamber a round and continue firing.

The one thing that bothers me about my G3 is having to reach waaayyyy up
to grab the handle and pull all the way back to chamber a round every time I
replace a mag. Otherwise I love it, as it is the most accurate Battle Rifle I own,
shooting RG in 1 MOA using the 3X9 scope instead of the iron sights.......

WiFAL · February 02, 2004, 22:31

Who ever looks at witness holes? Don't you just shoot til the mags empty?

mister2 · February 03, 2004, 09:21

Now, ever'body just watched to make sure ol' Smokey Yunick wasn't cheating and lightening his cars to make them faster. So he drilled holes in his mags and called them "witness holes" and ever'body got all itchy and tactical and arguin with themselves, just like he thought they would.

Meantime, Smokey's FALs are cleaning up at the racetrack.

Repeat after Smokey: "Light is Might!"

February 01, 2004, 14:05	#1
gman Registered FALaholic #: 1176 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Great Frozen North Posts: 2,756	Witness Holes In Your FAL Mags: Yes/No? I like the holes for the obvious reason: I get a good guess of how many rounds I have left. The other side is: they let in crud. So, you like'em or not?

February 01, 2004, 14:08	#2
EMDII Evil Moderator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 6 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 13,971	Not. I guess after years of use, I have a sense of 'how many' most times. And I drill magazine replacements. No surprises, just opportunities to freshen up the mag. __________________ "The Spartans do not enquire how many enemy there are. The SPartans merely enquire WHERE they are." E.M. (Ted) Dannemiller II 1*

February 01, 2004, 14:18	#3
Hawkish Registered FALaholic #: 6044 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Too close to Wichita, Kansas Posts: 426	I like them! I made a jig to drill the holes. A little crud won't hurt unless you're talking about a "Poodle Shooter"! __________________ :fal: Liberal = Socialist Progressive = Socialist Democrat = Socialist A socialist by any other name is still a socialist! If global warming gets any worse we'll all freeze to death. Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9-11. Forza Vesuvio!!

February 01, 2004, 14:32	#5
Havoc Registered FALaholic #: 128 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: KS Posts: 379	Any hole that will let dirt in is bad. The bolt hold open will let you know when your empty, you can feel the difference in recoil. If you'r a paper puncher it doesn't matter how many you have left. __________________ I DIE FREE!

February 01, 2004, 15:03	#6
762minigun Registered FALaholic #: 6464 Join Date: May 2002 Location: crossroads of america Posts: 1,497	Geez guys why drill?? Just buy StG58 mags, they already have the holes in them. I only buy the Austrian mags $5.00 , unless I get Imbels for around a $1.00. Now before you all start asking, Dans Sporting Goods had them at Knob Creek for a $1.00 a year ago, but they were ugly. __________________ " A well-regulated militia,being necessary to the security of a free state, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" Any Questions?

February 01, 2004, 14:26	#4
Shrike Registered FALaholic #: 4611 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,174	I like them because when im at the range i dont always put all 20 rounds in the mags Mike

February 01, 2004, 15:07	#7
Hawkish Registered FALaholic #: 6044 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Too close to Wichita, Kansas Posts: 426	I bought a ship load of mags from Antares and Woofsburgbob a while back @ $3.00 ea. That's why I made the drill jig. I also blast and re-park them. __________________ :fal: Liberal = Socialist Progressive = Socialist Democrat = Socialist A socialist by any other name is still a socialist! If global warming gets any worse we'll all freeze to death. Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9-11. Forza Vesuvio!!

February 01, 2004, 20:43	#9
SpyderMan Registered FALaholic #: 12615 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 76	Well, since we're talking tactics.... You can swap an empty without taking your eyes off of your target. It is simply not possible to view the witness holes in the mag while inserted in the rifle and still have any clue as to what is going on down range. Witness holes in the mags are fine if you are at the range punching paper - and can take your time screwing around. In combat, witness holes are useless. If you've lost count and are worried about running out at the wrong time - swap in a fresh mag and retain the partial for later. For most couch commandos, it really makes no difference either way - buy whatever you like or can find cheap. __________________ -SpyderMan

February 02, 2004, 15:49	#10
fastfreddy Registered FALaholic #: 7303 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,185	How's THIS for tactical.....? The Steyer mags have that greenish tint that matches the finish on my rifle. That's right, I buy 'em because I like the color. Never had a problem with one so why should I do otherwise. __________________ As you heed the call to battle, let your witness be as steel.

February 02, 2004, 16:44	#11
mojo_matic banned - trolling marketplace FALaholic #: 12363 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Carlisle, IN Posts: 3,257	I have at least 5 different types of freakin' FAL magazines (though not in massive quantities..three or four here, 5 or six there...). My favorite are the Steyer Austrian mags with witness holes. Quality is consistant...all very well made. Parked finish looks great, and don't look like hell after being locked n' loaded a handfull of times like the painted Imbels. Oh, I think the witness holes look cool...for whatever thats worth! I'm just a lowly "paper puncher" though. Wow, I didn't know that there were so many combat elitists preparing for an upcoming invasion here! I HATE gettting my personal rifles dirty with anything other than CLP and carbon! I avoid nasty situations where dirt/crud could possibly end up in the witness holes.

February 02, 2004, 20:11	#13
GUNNER0311 Registered FALaholic #: 10471 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 289	If TSHTF, I will not place a "tracer round" as the last fired as some nations do. Instead, I will place a "tracer" as the 15th round in the magazine, which in the stress of battle will give me a visual cue that I have five rounds to go before needing to reach for more. In battle, I feel the "true advantage" of the Bolt- Hold Open Device is not really in telling you that you are empty. But rather, that you can drop the empty mag, insert a fresh one; and then tap the release button to close the bolt and you are ready to resume sending greetings to the enemy. It simply saves you time, by not having to actually reach up and "rack the action" to chamber the first round in your new mag. I remember how simple and fast it was when firing the M-14 to drop the empty mag, insert the fresh one and "tap" the bolt release to chamber a round and continue firing. The one thing that bothers me about my G3 is having to reach waaayyyy up to grab the handle and pull all the way back to chamber a round every time I replace a mag. Otherwise I love it, as it is the most accurate Battle Rifle I own, shooting RG in 1 MOA using the 3X9 scope instead of the iron sights....... __________________ You can accomplish more with a kind word and a gun, than a kind word alone!

February 02, 2004, 22:31	#14
WiFAL Registered FALaholic #: 2823 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Franklin, WI Posts: 949	Who ever looks at witness holes? Don't you just shoot til the mags empty?

February 03, 2004, 09:21	#15
mister2 Registered FALaholic #: 10361 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 226	Now, ever'body just watched to make sure ol' Smokey Yunick wasn't cheating and lightening his cars to make them faster. So he drilled holes in his mags and called them "witness holes" and ever'body got all itchy and tactical and arguin with themselves, just like he thought they would. Meantime, Smokey's FALs are cleaning up at the racetrack. Repeat after Smokey: "Light is Might!"

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