FFL licensing questions

deerollman · April 14, 2006, 19:32

who can tell me what it takes to get an ffl. does one need a physical place of business or can an ffl just deal on the internet and gun shows?

bubbavern · April 14, 2006, 20:16

Well, for 'net business you'd still need a shipping address, etc... it all really depends on local zoning and such. They've craked down on the kitchen table folks, and now let the local zoning laws deal with limiting FFLs...

boman · April 14, 2006, 20:53

Call ATF and they will send you an application package---As was mentioned--- If you can proove that you will be in zoning compliance with your local government you can get a license on your residence---you have to meet some other requirements but ATF is not out to deny license---it is a source of revenue for them as well as one more way to track firearms. They arn't necessarily the jack booted thugs as they are somtimes perceived.

It can be considered a home occupation just as daycare,dentistry, Real Estate etc. depending upon your municipality.

Steve Bowman---FFL since 1980 NRA Endowment

Court in Fl · April 14, 2006, 23:29

The way I understand it your business premises needs to be accessible to the public.

I freind of mine who had a FFL for years had to give up his FFL when the ATF
found a town ordnance that said you can not have a home business where you have customers coming to your home.

He tried to tell them he did most of his business at gun shows and over the Internet but the ATF still said NO and would not renew his license.

So check your local ordnances real close before you apply.

Good Luck, Court in FL.

**Palerider** · April 15, 2006, 00:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Court in Fl
The way I understand it your business premises needs to be accessible to the public.

I freind of mine who had a FFL for years had to give up his FFL when the ATF
found a town ordnance that said you can not have a home business where you have customers coming to your home.

He tried to tell them he did most of his business at gun shows and over the Internet but the ATF still said NO and would not renew his license.

So check your local ordnances real close before you apply.

Good Luck, Court in FL.

A catch 22?!?
If the city ordnance was the problem, he could have closed the storefront to satisfy the ATF and have strictly internet and gunshow sales only?
If the public access requirement is the problem, then most of the major internet firearms sales companies don't have storefronts either; They and o2/07 gunsmithing FFL's are by appointment only--says so right on their websites.
I think the '86 gunowners protection act addressed the interstate mail order FFL issue, granting acknowledgement as legitimate.
Maybe someone wrote a letter?

**K. Funk** · April 16, 2006, 06:51

I just got my FFL to operate out of my home. I live in a rather rural area and the zoning requirements are not very strict. I got a letter from the township zoning officer stating that there was nothing in the zoning prohibiting me from operating a firearms business out of my home. I'm not sure how far ATF dug into it, but that approach seemed to be OK for the visiting agent.

krf

Kahouna · April 16, 2006, 08:25

I know when I got mine, the ATF called the local .gov to verify that I was in compliance with all the zoning issues. I did have to get a small business permit from the city but we were zoned OK to do that. You might check into needing a state tax license too.

Get the packet from them. There's enough information in them to make you want to take a nap.

the gman · April 16, 2006, 10:42

As has been said, the key thing is to satisfy the local regs applicable to businesses. I had to get a 'conditional use' permit for my FFL out of my home but that was it. Once that was granted, I got a business license & I included a copy of the permit, my biz license, & my LLC formation info with my application & now I'm just waiting for the appointment/inspection from the ATF.

If I were you, I would simply state that you wished to operate a part-time gunsmithing business, conducted via mail order/internet & thereby you do away with any fixed shop hours or the problem of the local govt. not wanting folks turning up at your house.

The license for a gunsmith & a regular storefront is the same, an 01 FFL. If you then decide to sell a few guns via the internet or at gunshows, well, you have the license to do so. You also should show a few gunsmithing jobs per year but all you need to do is have a couple of friends allow you to mount their 'scopes on their hunting rifles or clean a few of their guns.

Ther is NOTHING illegal about this, I spoke at length with one of the head guys at ATF when I met him at SHOT this year & he was the one who mentioned about the cleaning & scope mounting etc.

Their main concern is that you maintain accurate records, do not engage in straw sales & otherwise behave in a lawful, ethical manner. Do so & you will have no problems whatsoever.

FYI, here are the different types & prices for FFL's:

Type 01 -
DEALER in firearms other than destructive devices.
(includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National
Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.)

18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B)

Fee:

$ 200.00 for the first three (3) years.
$ 90.00 on renewal.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 02 -
PAWNBROKER in firearms other than destructive devices.
(includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National
Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.)

18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B)

Fee:

$ 200.00 for the first three (3) years.
$ 90.00 on renewal.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 03 -
COLLECTOR OF CURIOS AND RELICS.
(pertains exclusively to firearms classified as curios and relics, and it's purpose is to facilitate a personal collection. It is NOT a license to buy and sell curios and relics.

18 U.S.C 923(b)

Fee:

$ 30.00 for three (3) years.
Application: ATF Form 7 CR (5310.16)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 06 -
MANUFACTURER OF AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS
other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(C)

Fee:

$ 30.00 for three (3) years.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 07 -
MANUFACTURER OF FIREARMS other than destructive devices.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(B)

Fee:

$ 150 for three (3) years.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 08 -
IMPORTER OF FIREARMS other than destructive devices
or AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS other than destructive devices, or ammunition other than armor piercing ammunition.

NOTE: Importers of handguns and rifles MUST register with ATF under the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act. Contact the Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch at (202) 927-8320 for further information on registration.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(2)(B)

Fee:

$ 150.00 for three (3) years.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 09 -
DEALER IN DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(A)

Fee:

$ 3,000.00 for three (3) years.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 10 -
MANUFACTURER OF DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AMMUNITION
FOR DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES OR ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(A)

Fee:

$ 3,000.00 for three (3) years.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type 11 -
IMPORTER OF DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AMMUNITION FOR
DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES OR ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

18 U.S.C 923(a)(2)(A)

Fee:

$ 3,000.00 for three (3) years.
Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
[Top

Here's a link to the NLC that deals with the applications. Hope this helped ya out....

**Mebsuta** · May 30, 2007, 02:49

ping

azcraig54 · May 30, 2007, 03:31

Clinton was the one caused all the changes. When I got my first f.f.l. it was ten dollars a year.Then they changed it to thirty dollars for three years. They said it made for less paper work for them. SOT's cost $200.00 a year.
Then clinton came in. Had to get finger printed and photographed for just the f.f.l.. I had been selling class three stuff for at least 12 yrs with no prints or photos from me. Thats also when they stated all the zoning hassles.

**Mebsuta** · May 30, 2007, 03:54

Not worried about BC at this point, just doing some research.

April 14, 2006, 19:32	#1
deerollman Registered FALaholic #: 18699 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NC Posts: 3,126	FFL licensing questions who can tell me what it takes to get an ffl. does one need a physical place of business or can an ffl just deal on the internet and gun shows?

April 14, 2006, 20:53	#3
boman Registered FALaholic #: 395 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: In Posts: 312	Call ATF and they will send you an application package---As was mentioned--- If you can proove that you will be in zoning compliance with your local government you can get a license on your residence---you have to meet some other requirements but ATF is not out to deny license---it is a source of revenue for them as well as one more way to track firearms. They arn't necessarily the jack booted thugs as they are somtimes perceived. It can be considered a home occupation just as daycare,dentistry, Real Estate etc. depending upon your municipality. Steve Bowman---FFL since 1980 NRA Endowment __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin-1759

April 16, 2006, 06:51	#6
K. Funk Real Life Metallurgist Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 38 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Myerstown, PA Posts: 3,955	I just got my FFL to operate out of my home. I live in a rather rural area and the zoning requirements are not very strict. I got a letter from the township zoning officer stating that there was nothing in the zoning prohibiting me from operating a firearms business out of my home. I'm not sure how far ATF dug into it, but that approach seemed to be OK for the visiting agent. krf __________________ The Mason-Dixon FAL Association wants YOU!! Ask me for details. You never know what's going on inside the mind of a crazy man!! Check out username kandainv on Gunbroker; always some neat stuff!! FYB!!!!

April 16, 2006, 08:25	#7
Kahouna Registered FALaholic #: 2832 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: CA Posts: 175	I know when I got mine, the ATF called the local .gov to verify that I was in compliance with all the zoning issues. I did have to get a small business permit from the city but we were zoned OK to do that. You might check into needing a state tax license too. Get the packet from them. There's enough information in them to make you want to take a nap. __________________ "You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

April 16, 2006, 10:42	#8
the gman Registered FALaholic #: 5179 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NM Posts: 4,559	As has been said, the key thing is to satisfy the local regs applicable to businesses. I had to get a 'conditional use' permit for my FFL out of my home but that was it. Once that was granted, I got a business license & I included a copy of the permit, my biz license, & my LLC formation info with my application & now I'm just waiting for the appointment/inspection from the ATF. If I were you, I would simply state that you wished to operate a part-time gunsmithing business, conducted via mail order/internet & thereby you do away with any fixed shop hours or the problem of the local govt. not wanting folks turning up at your house. The license for a gunsmith & a regular storefront is the same, an 01 FFL. If you then decide to sell a few guns via the internet or at gunshows, well, you have the license to do so. You also should show a few gunsmithing jobs per year but all you need to do is have a couple of friends allow you to mount their 'scopes on their hunting rifles or clean a few of their guns. Ther is NOTHING illegal about this, I spoke at length with one of the head guys at ATF when I met him at SHOT this year & he was the one who mentioned about the cleaning & scope mounting etc. Their main concern is that you maintain accurate records, do not engage in straw sales & otherwise behave in a lawful, ethical manner. Do so & you will have no problems whatsoever. FYI, here are the different types & prices for FFL's: Type 01 - DEALER in firearms other than destructive devices. (includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.) 18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B) Fee: $ 200.00 for the first three (3) years. $ 90.00 on renewal. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 02 - PAWNBROKER in firearms other than destructive devices. (includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.) 18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B) Fee: $ 200.00 for the first three (3) years. $ 90.00 on renewal. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 03 - COLLECTOR OF CURIOS AND RELICS. (pertains exclusively to firearms classified as curios and relics, and it's purpose is to facilitate a personal collection. It is NOT a license to buy and sell curios and relics. 18 U.S.C 923(b) Fee: $ 30.00 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 CR (5310.16) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 06 - MANUFACTURER OF AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition. 18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(C) Fee: $ 30.00 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 07 - MANUFACTURER OF FIREARMS other than destructive devices. 18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(B) Fee: $ 150 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 08 - IMPORTER OF FIREARMS other than destructive devices or AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS other than destructive devices, or ammunition other than armor piercing ammunition. NOTE: Importers of handguns and rifles MUST register with ATF under the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act. Contact the Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch at (202) 927-8320 for further information on registration. 18 U.S.C 923(a)(2)(B) Fee: $ 150.00 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 09 - DEALER IN DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES. 18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(A) Fee: $ 3,000.00 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 10 - MANUFACTURER OF DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AMMUNITION FOR DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES OR ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION. 18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(A) Fee: $ 3,000.00 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type 11 - IMPORTER OF DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AMMUNITION FOR DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES OR ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION. 18 U.S.C 923(a)(2)(A) Fee: $ 3,000.00 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12) [Top Here's a link to the NLC that deals with the applications. Hope this helped ya out.... __________________ A sucking chest wound is God's way of telling you that you will take no further part in the firefight. God is on the side, not of the big battalions, but of the best shots- Voltaire “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -Alexis de Tocqueville

April 14, 2006, 20:16	#2
bubbavern Registered FALaholic #: 19523 Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 61	Well, for 'net business you'd still need a shipping address, etc... it all really depends on local zoning and such. They've craked down on the kitchen table folks, and now let the local zoning laws deal with limiting FFLs...

April 14, 2006, 23:29	#4
Court in Fl Curio & Relic FALaholic #: 5046 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,150	The way I understand it your business premises needs to be accessible to the public. I freind of mine who had a FFL for years had to give up his FFL when the ATF found a town ordnance that said you can not have a home business where you have customers coming to your home. He tried to tell them he did most of his business at gun shows and over the Internet but the ATF still said NO and would not renew his license. So check your local ordnances real close before you apply. Good Luck, Court in FL.

May 30, 2007, 02:49	#9
Mebsuta Khemi, Stygia Contributor FALaholic #: 4143 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Khemi, Stygia Posts: 6,371	ping

May 30, 2007, 03:31	#10
azcraig54 Registered FALaholic #: 23172 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 39	Clinton was the one caused all the changes. When I got my first f.f.l. it was ten dollars a year.Then they changed it to thirty dollars for three years. They said it made for less paper work for them. SOT's cost $200.00 a year. Then clinton came in. Had to get finger printed and photographed for just the f.f.l.. I had been selling class three stuff for at least 12 yrs with no prints or photos from me. Thats also when they stated all the zoning hassles.

May 30, 2007, 03:54	#11
Mebsuta Khemi, Stygia Contributor FALaholic #: 4143 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Khemi, Stygia Posts: 6,371	Not worried about BC at this point, just doing some research.

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