Correct Components for G1 FAL Build

[TinMan99]

Hello,

I'm almost done building a G1 FAL and have a question. What sort of pistol grip is correct for the G1? The G1 kit came with this GORGEOUS dark orange-chocolate brown wood buttstock and pistol grip. It is absolutely drop dead pretty wood in almost perfect condition. For the original G1, did they use the black plastic pistol grips or were they wood? I prefer the weapon in historically accurate condition, so what's correct? Black plastic or the wood? Thanks much!

TinMan99

[bausch]

You should immeadiatly get rid of that termite infested wood and send it to me .
I being the great fellow I am will send you a set of Tapco U.S. compliance plastic furniture by return mail regards Bausch

[TinMan99]

Your generosity is underwhelming. I know the buttstock is correct and I'd hate to break up a set.

TinMan99

[Rooster]

I think they were about 6 of one, half dozen of the other. The plastic may have come due to the wood cracking and needing to be replaced.

[Abominog]

The very first ones had wood and wood.

From what I've seen kits with wood PG are quite a bit rarer. That's what I'd want.

[adam762]

Definitely wood. Go here to see... http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...hreadid=111546

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

The very FIRST G1's were made for the German Boarder Safety Police in 1955/6 These rifles had the following features: -

Wood Handguards
Wood Carry Handle
Wood Pistol Grip Type A
Wood Butt Type A
Plain muzzle, open eared barrel/gas block.
Lower Receiver Type A (this is pre 'Type 1') and is designed specially for the Type A Butt.
5 Prong US T48 style Flash Eliminator (like the browning import version)
Tall rear sight


In 1957 the German Army ordered 100,000 G1 rifles to their modified standards:-

Steel Handguards
Wood Carry Handle
Wood Pistol Grip Type A
Wood Butt Type B
Detachable Flash Eliminator
Bi-Pod
Bi-pod cut barrel and solid eared gas block
Low rear sight


During it's years of service parts would break and modifications would be brought into service so what would happen is the fragile parts like the furniture would get damaged and be replaced.

It is NOT wrong or incorrect to have Type A, Type B, Type C or even in some cases Type D butts on G1 rifles.

It is NOT wrong or incorrect to have Type A, Type C, or Type C (cleaning kit) Pistol Grips.

It is NOT wrong or incorrect to have Type A, Type B, Type C or even in some cases Type D Carry Handles on G1 rifles.


It all comes down to what parts were available in the supply system and in some cases there were instruction stating the removal of certain types of parts as they were obsolete eg. the wood carry handles were replaced in bulk for the better plastic type.


For those contemplating building a 'Clone rifle' should consider what 'time-period' they want their rifle to represent. Because unless your donor rifle kit was an unissued example that never saw the light of day after being assembled at the factory it will have had any number of modifications done to it to bring it up to the current issued 'standard' before it was released to general service.

Some things to consider for the advanced potential builder.

[Falcon]

In addition to the type"a" and "c' that Kevin details, there was a type "b" version of the rifle.This type "b" shared the all the same type "a" characteristics, sans the wood handgaurds. The series "b" inprovements, at this point in time, were the addition of the metal handgaurds and the bipod arrangement.

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

Falcon: THANX for posting the pic VERY interesting and the pics aren't shown in any after-market published book.

So now there are the following versions of G1 rifles:-

Version A
FAL 'Canadian' with 5 prong T48 flash eliminator (known in British service as the X8E3)

Version B
FAL 'Canadian' with 5 prong T48 flash eliminator and steel handguards/bi-pod

Version C
German Army version with detachable F/E, steel handguards, low sight

Version D
German border guard with Type 2 upper, Type C butt and Type C plastic pistol grip and Type C carry handle.

Falcon, Can you think of any other official factory G1 configurations?

[Falcon]

Kevin, for some reason the type "a" picture above does not show the lug on the barrel, like the type "b" does. I do notice the pistol grips shape is a little flat on the bottom, kind of looks like the contour of a plastic one.Perhaps they touched up the photo, as a few other pictures within the same book do show a lug.I have another early manual showing the lug on both variations, but have no scan available to post.As you know, but others may not, the type "a" and "b" had lowers marked S-EF-DF as opposed to the model "c" marked S-E-D so common today in the U.S.

This manual does refer to a type "af" but I'm not sure what the difference is.Yet another manual has reference to variations known as the G1 ZUB(NSN 1005-12-124-2305),G1 ZF sniper(NSN 1005-13-100-0011) and the G1 ZF ZUB (NSN 1005-12-124-3155). I'm not sure what ZUB stands for but I think,iirc, they are Belgian made by the NSN country code. My German translating skills are not good enough to decipher all this book has to offer.Attached is a picture of the 3 rifle variations with mention of the "af".

BTW,does your G1 have a "C" suffix after the serial number? The reason I ask is that I noticed the english language manual that TAPCO sells has 'This manual valid for FN-Weapons with the marking "C" after the serial number 6917c" on the front cover. I don't own this manaual but would assume it is for the type "c" rifle.It makes me wonder if those rifles before that serial# were of the type "a", "af" and "b" variation.Furthermore, Blakes book does show a type "a" with serial number 2168, so we know there were at least that many made, perhaps the balance to #6917c were of the type "af" and "b" variations. No definitive proof,just conjecture on my part.

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

hummmmmmmmm OK well say it's a 'touched' photo so well say the model 'a' has a lug also.

I was wondering if the G1 'af' means the rifle is a Semi-auto version? Hence you could also have a G1 ZF af too?

I have a copy of the TAPCO reprint booklet which is good to have with my Model 'C' rifle. There was a batch of these G1 rifles brought into New Zealand in the early 80's.

G1 ZUB(NSN 1005-12-124-2305)

G1 ZF sniper(NSN 1005-13-100-0011) and

G1 ZF ZUB (NSN 1005-12-124-3155).

Yep these would of all been made by FN in Belgium.


Where's Rolland when you need him to translate the German for you.


The markings on my Model C G1 rifle.

[19kilo]

SO it appears that the type "a" buttstock is a straight top affair and the type "b" has a 'hump' at the rear of the stock? Is this correct or am I seeing things?
Has anyone received a type "a" stock with their G1 kit? My 4 kits all had the humped version.
KILO OVER

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

Here's a pic showing the Type A, C and D butts. The Type A is fitted to the pre-Type 1 Lower.

[19kilo]

Kevin take a look at my stock pictured below. It has the sling swivel of the model "A" but not the front end of either the "A" or the "C". Does that make it a model "B"? I have a couple of other G1 stocks with the same front end but with the model "C" swivel at the rear.
Just wondering
Tanks,
KILO OVER

[Falcon]

Kevin, thank you for posting the pic of your G1. The type "Af" may very well be for a semi-only rifle, hadn't thought about it from that perspective. Perhaps someone schooled in German could translate it for us.

19 kilo, the lack of a humpback on the type A stock in the scan is a result of the photo being re-touched prior to publication. I noticed a few others in the book that were done the same way.Here is a digital pic of the type A rifle from another manual, the lug and humpback are more noticeable.

I have a type A stock and lower(S-EF-DF) from a TAPCO G1 kit.

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

Here's a pic of the two G1's I have, the Type C in the pic of the 3 FAL Butts is from a 'G' serial numbered FAL all of these have TYPE C Butts and all have the same contour at the front, just behind the furrel.

I think (but not 100% sure) that maybe the profile you have is a Turkish made Type C butt replacement?

Basically all FAL Butts with the furrel are considered to be TYPE C. The TYPE B looks like the front of the inch type wood butts. The difference between the TYPE A and B is that the TYPE A has what looks like a set of 'wings' protruding forward and on the left hand side is a recess to allow the body locking catch to rotate into.

What do you think Falcon?

[Oakspring]

So what is the history of my G-1? The numbers stamped on the lower receiver are 817XX with no letter designator behind them. The stock was wood, pistol grips plastic, and the handguards metal. The wooden buttstock appears to be an FN Model ‘A’ type with no metal cap, though there are evidence of three repairs to the wood at the neck. I know it ended its military life as a Turkish rifle from the Turkish note stuffed into the stock behind a cleaning rag.

Does anyone have a clue by the stock numbers of approximately when and where this rifle began its military career? Is there a website that might contain such information? I don’t expect much but a general idea would be nice. I would like to return it to its original configuration if that is possible but have no way of telling what that was at this point.
Thanks

P.S. Also what was the correct bayonet type for the G-1 with the removable flashhider? Was it added over the flash hider or put on in leu of the flash hider....sorry if these are "rookie" questions. But I AM a ROOKIE in regards to FN's. Thanks again.

[19kilo]

Originally posted by Oakspring


P.S. Also what was the correct bayonet type for the G-1 with the removable flashhider? Was it added over the flash hider or put on in leu of the flash hider....sorry if these are "rookie" questions. But I AM a ROOKIE in regards to FN's. Thanks again.

As far as the bayonet goes...
I understand that the original German G1 did not have an official issued bayonet. BUT that the Turks devised one. I have 2 that TAPCO was selling some time ago. They slip over the flash hider and lock on to that IIRC since adding a boyonet is verbotten here in the peoples republic of america.
From what I understand Turk modified their Mauser stickers to fit on their acquired G1's.
Is this correct?
TANKS.
KILO OOUTTTT

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

Oakspring: I would say you have one of the original 100,000 German Army G1 rifles with your serial number being '817XX'. In the pic of the two G1's I have posted the bottom rifle is an original German Army G1 and has a serial number in 40K range. It must of had a hard life as the body (upper receiver) has been replaced along with the Butt, Carry handle and pistol grip. Such is the life of a service rifle.

Are you sure your Butt is a TYPE 'A'? does it have the little wings that protrude forward of the main part of the butt and has the recess cut out of the wood on the left hand side for the body locking catch? If it doesn't have these features then the Butt is a TYPE 'B'.

There is no factory made bayonet for the G1 rifle in German Army service it was a item they deemed they had no requirement for. HOWEVER there is a bayonet that will fit the removable flash eliminator of the G1 and that is the Erzats bayonet made by the Turks from old Erzats Mauser bayonets (all metal). These have been converted to fit the G1 rifle and were a unique Turkish Army item.

As to the military career of your rifle that is basically an unknown and your in the best place to find out any info about it on the internet. The German Army used the G1 for only a few years as a frontline rifle as it was quickly replaced from 1959 onwards with the German made H&K G3 rifle. The only group to use the FAL for many decades was the German boarder Police/Guards. The pages from the manual that Falcon has posted above and MODEL designations refers only to the rifles in the boarder Police/Guards and not to the General issue of G1 Rifle in the German Army.

As to wanting an 'original configuration'....... if you want it to look like it did when it came from the FN factory then you will need the components I listed above for the German Army G1 rifles

In 1957 the German Army ordered 100,000 G1 rifles to their modified standards:-

Steel Handguards
Wood Carry Handle
Wood Pistol Grip Type A
Wood Butt Type B
Detachable Flash Eliminator
Bi-Pod
Bi-pod cut barrel and solid eared gas block
Low rear sight

Hope this helps.

[Falcon]

What do I think? I think those two frauliens you have are drop dead gorgeous!

From what I see in 19 kilo's pic, I agree also,it looks to be Turkish made. Hard to tell without actually handling the stock, but the contour is a bit off in the wrist/ferrule area.

I have new type A and C stocks, as well as a used type B. I'll post pics tomorrow for those that care.Your description of the stocks were right on.

BTW, here's a scan of the G1 NSN page where the variations were listed...

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

forgot to add a pic of the Turkish bayonet. Ugly but functional

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

Falcon: Very interesting........ if you examine the NSN's listed in the manual

NSN 1005-13-100-0010
G1 Rifle

NSN 1005-13-100-0011
G1 ZF Sniper Rifle

Both these NSN's indicate the rifles are from Belgium.... FN made models


Now these two tell me something else. These are a unique German configurations with the modification done within Germany. Hence the country code '12' for Germany.

NSN 1005-12-124-2305
G1 ZUB Rifle

NSN 1005-12-124-3155
G1 ZF ZUB Rifle

I'm picking they are semi auto versions maybe for boarder patrol units or for reserve army units where automatic is unwarranted.

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

falsemuzzle: sad to say that your wrong, The 'TYPE C' shown in the pic is on a G-serial numbered commercial sales rifle that has been in New Zealand for at least 30 - 35 years and was brought new and used for Helicopter Deer Culling.

The two G1's (One is a Boarder Guard, the other Army) are again original and have been in New Zealand since 1980 and are ex-German. Most likely both are from the sell-off of Border Police surplus equipment.

These rifles aren't your run-of-the-mill ex-Turkish Army G1's available today, these are ex-German surplus rifles.

But good question to ask mate.

[BlasterLP]

well at least now I know I missed out on picking up some of those Turkish bayonets here in Baghdad...the 2 that I saw were not in that great of shape and I didnt know for sure what they went to....and the haji wanted 5 dollars apiece.

[Oakspring]

Thanks NZ and 19Kilo for the great information....I'd say my G-1 was pretty well knocked about like a P.I. Hooker with the Seventh Fleet in port! But the bore is still good, so it didn't do much shooting. We'll see when I get her rebuilt and taken down to the range for the first test firing.

Either way...it will be my first FN and as such it's nice to have an idea of the history. Thanks again.....Now were can I find an evil bayonet to go with this pier front bitch?

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

falsemuzzle: You refering to this pic?




The top rifle is a British trials rifle X8E1

Middle is a Comercial sales Model 50:00 with a 'G' serial number (ex Deer Culling rifle) marked Cal. .308

Bottom is a Military contract Model 50:00, this rifle is ex Israeli Army.

Here's all three rifles.

[SHARPSHOOTER]

Kevin I want you to know everytime you post pics of your goodies for reference purposes . I get so jealous Truthfully though I appreciate it as I am sure everyone else here does. Nice G1 rifles you have there.

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

SHARPSHOOTER: Glad you like the pics, it's a shame you guys aren't allowed to own the rifles in their original configuration except for a lucky few that can afford the 'collector' prices of the pre-ban rifles.

I'll continue to post pics of the 'real' rifles as long as the New Zealand government allows me to own these great rifles and I'm able to find new examples to add to the NZ L1A1 Museum.