The FAL Files

The FAL Files (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php)
-   Gunsmithing & Build It Yourself (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   Converting the M1 Garand to a M14 (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92822)

The Armour November 21, 2003 01:34

Converting the M1 Garand to a M14
 
I was thinking it might be nice to build an M14. I was wondering if there are any kits availible for the M14. Another thought was to try and modify a M1 Garand kit to accept M14 or M1A mags. Has anyone ever tried this or know if it can be done. I have searched for M14 kits but can find none. I thought a M14/M1a receiver and a Garand kit might work though. Any suggestions, Help, or insite would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

justashooter November 21, 2003 06:47

the mod on an M1 can be done, and was done in the BM59. recent discussion of the topic can be found by using the search function and key words like"M1 garand M14 mags"

vmtz November 21, 2003 11:17

I would think cost wise, that once you are done you are at about the entry level of the M1A or clone.

Vince

The Armour November 21, 2003 13:56

You guys know cost is not always the reason for doing a job like this. It is the act of doing it with your own 2 hands that I like about it. I will try the search but keep it coming guys. Thanks

Pluribus November 21, 2003 14:26

Right on Armour! I recall article's in the 60's about M1's being converted to accept BAR mag's and, IIRC, there was a fair revue in a NRA publication so, you might check there. One of my dream coniguration's for an M1 is a 6.5x06 modified to accept BAR mag's.:love: Good luck on the project.

lonerunner1 November 21, 2003 16:35

I had a BM59 for about a year or so. All it consisted of was a tanker Garand rebarreled in 7.62 Nato and then modified to accept M-14 20 rd. mags. It was fun to shoot when it fed right. They are real touchy on the magazines. Would have rather just have had an M1A. Now if you find a Garand that accepts BAR magazines, that I would be interested in.

Bruce Allen November 21, 2003 18:43

Why not modify it to accept FAL Inch mags?

Edited to add:
Cause you want a 30'06 rifle I guess?

Court in Fl November 21, 2003 22:27

As I remember conversions like this where popular back in the late 70's.
I will see what I can find in my old Guns & Ammo mags.

Court in Fl.

I can't find my old GUNS & AMMO magazines, I think my girlfriend threw them out with my old Penthouse magazines.:(

The Armour November 22, 2003 00:37

I am actually wanting to do this in 308, but my real dream would be a garand that takes M14 mags and chambered in .260 Rem. I will continue the search, haven't found a good procedure for doing this yet. Thanks

Old Sarge November 22, 2003 10:09

Armour
Unless you are looking for the use of a forged receiver. I would think that one of the M14 type recevers and a new barrel made to your specs would do the trick? I think that to make the 14 mags fit and an M1 there would be some serious cutting involved. With the deep cuts comes the issue of heat treating. I recall a guy out in Montana that use to advertise in the ShotGun news that did this converson. I think it was Ballards gunsmithing or somthing like that.

Good luck with your project
Old Sarge:beer:

doubletap November 22, 2003 18:07

Quote:

Originally posted by lonerunner1
I had a BM59 for about a year or so. All it consisted of was a tanker Garand rebarreled in 7.62 Nato and then modified to accept M-14 20 rd. mags. It was fun to shoot when it fed right. They are real touchy on the magazines. Would have rather just have had an M1A.
Actually the real BM59's had a different gas system. You will note that the gas cylinder on the BM's is significantly farther below the barrel than on a Garand. This allows a straighter op rod, which is always the problem when building a Tanker Garand.

Real BM's also don't use M14 mags. The BM mag well will not accept a 14 mag due to the difference in size. The BM mag uses a stepped mag, about a third of the way back from the front of the mag it widens out. This keeps more metal at the front of the receiver leg than the "M14" conversions out there. Ditto the BAR mag conversions.

The biggest problem in doing a conversion like this is the hardness of the Garand receiver. I've went the BM route to do a conversion, an old friend did a 14 conversion, and I've seen many botch job "conversions". What you will probably end up doing is grinding out the interior of the front legs and the slide rails for the Garand follower. Tool post grinder set up on the lathe and a fixture to hold the receiver (mandrel) was the way we both ended up going, many years apart in the doing too!

Sadly the 14 kits were in their heyday about 18 years ago. I built several when you could buy a near new kit for peanuts and an SA receiver for a couple hundred. Of course the 14 uses a smaller barrel shank than the Garand, so you will need to start any conversion with a Garand threaded barrel. Wish I had a time machine to go back and buy more 14 kits and more of those $129 BM 59 kits too!

Savary July 09, 2004 10:46

Is this legal?? converting an M1 Garand to accept M14 mags.
I thought there was some law that said if the weapon wasnít originally manufactured that way, it couldnít be modified. Like making an SKS take AK mags.

Calvert1 July 09, 2004 10:58

Perfectly legal. The Garand is a US made rifle.

W.E.G. July 09, 2004 11:08

See http://www.fulton-armory.com/M1MagConv.htm

andresere July 11, 2004 00:48

source for M-14 parts kit
 
PM me and I will give you the name of a guy that has parts kits for M-14s. I bought my wife a brand new in the wrap Winchester parts kit for our anniversary. Everything was as he stated; new in the original GI wrappers, never assembled. If you want, I will email pics of the kit. I talked with him last week. He can still put a kit together. It won't be exactly like what I got, but I bought mine last year. My end goal was to be able to shoot my M-14, instead of watching her shoot it.:biggrin: By the time you buy a rcvr, it will be as much as an M1A. The biggest difference will be that you will have a GI M-14 (with an aftermarket rcvr). As close as you can get to the real thing. Armscorp is the best rcvr out there. IMHO Springfield is dubious quality at best. A lot of people will tell you that you get a lifetime guarantee with Springfield; from what I have seen of them, you will need it. Hope this helps.

Bwana John July 11, 2004 09:05

Dont ruin a perfectly good Garand!

idsubgun July 11, 2004 15:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Bwana John
Dont ruin a perfectly good Garand!
I second that! They don't make M1 Garands anymore and never will again. M1A's are everywhere. Buy one.

boeboe July 11, 2004 18:04

M14/M1A/BM59/M1 Garand
 
There was a long thread in the C&R section that may be of interest, this, here is the link.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...threadid=74976

Also, West Texas Ordnance is offering M1 Garands that have been converted to M14 mags. That link is here:

http://www.texasordnance.com/rifles.html

Another good site is the BM59 Forum at:

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forum...php?act=SF&f=7

Might be best to keep an eye open for one of these, as sold by Walter Craig in the 1960's. But the receiver is a reweld.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=16562645

I have lots of photos of a guy's work as he did this conversion. Handle is FDaveGP on the Machinegunbooks.com discussion forum. He just ground the M1 Garand receiver, said it wasn't a big deal, he didn't have it annealed as is most often mentioned. I don't have anywhere to post the pictures, though.

Considering they made millions of Garands, I wouldn't feel at all bad converting a Danish or Greek CMP fifle.

DesertFALrat July 12, 2004 23:37

Quote:

Originally posted by idsubgun


I second that! They don't make M1 Garands anymore and never will again. M1A's are everywhere. Buy one.



Springfield Armory's website lists brand new Garand's for 1400 dollars.

Para Driver July 13, 2004 00:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Pluribus
One of my dream coniguration's for an M1 is a 6.5x06 modified to accept BAR mag's
sounds like the Oswald commerative model....

idsubgun July 13, 2004 05:25

Quote:

Originally posted by DesertFALrat




Springfield Armory's website lists brand new Garand's for 1400 dollars.

Not the same thing.

I just feel that with all the Garands already converted to .308, all the BM59's and all the M1A's, there isn't any reason to convert an unconverted Garand to accept a mag. Buy one of the above rifles and be done with it. If you want to convert a Garand, then buy one that has been converted to .308 and have at it.

First of all, what are you gaining? There are better rifles out there for modern warfare that accept mags, if that is your goal. There are rifles out there with better ammo choices as the .30-06 is an expensive ammo to shoot.
What you end up with is a Garand that most won't want and the value will be greatly reduced. Just doesn't make sense to me. But, to each their own.
But now that you've brought it up, why not use one of the new Springfield receivers? That way a piece of history won't be ruined.

As for the number of Garands built, I think the number is around 5 million. Count in the ones that were destroyed in WWII or at the bottom of the English Channel, or all the other seas where ships were sunk, plus the ones loaned to other countries that will never surface again for various reasons, I'm sure that only half will ever make it back to the US.
I've got one that I've only got a couple hundred dollars in, and I'm sure I could get $7-900 for it now. I couldn't get that kind of return if I had cut it up to accept a mag. Maybe $4-500 at best, if even that.
Just kind of like taking a '70 Hemi 'Cuda and making a demolition derby car out of it. Sure, it will work for that but why?

DesertFALrat July 13, 2004 11:30

Quote:

Originally posted by idsubgun


Not the same thing.



Really, why? Other than the nostalgia of an original Garand, how is it different?

The website says "brand new receiver and barrel, all USGI parts."

Not that 1400 for a Garand is cheap, when you can get one from the CMP for 500.

Seems like the Greek Garands would be a good candidate for this conversion, at 300 bucks each.

Savary July 13, 2004 11:30

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture of a Garand converted to take M14 mags.
Found them surfing the web, forgot where they came from.
This one has the front ears completely removed and a simplified front mag catch.
From what Iíve found, when Beretta did the conversion, they left front ears on, but made angled cuts on the rear edge.

Savary July 13, 2004 11:32

1 Attachment(s)
Unmodified Garand receiver for reference.

Savary July 13, 2004 12:00

1 Attachment(s)
A couple more...


idsubgun July 13, 2004 19:31

Quote:

Originally posted by DesertFALrat



Really, why? Other than the nostalgia of an original Garand, how is it different?


The SA receivers are new receivers that are being made today. Cutting up one of those is "not the same thing" as cutting up an original Garand receiver. Adding a mag to a Garand just doesn't make sense to me when there are plenty of BM59's and M1A's out there.
I don't have any problems with cutting up old rifles. Hell, cut up a Mauser as there were 12 kabillion of them out there, but there are limited numbers of "original" Garands.
The SA receiver isn't a Garand receiver but a copy.

boeboe July 13, 2004 21:03

BM59/M14/M1A
 
The new, SA, Inc. receivers are copies, the original SA receivers from Springfield, MA are not . SA made original Garands. SA, Inc, is a copy.

I think there were some 6 million M1 Garands made. Some at the bottom of the ocean.

There are not very many quality BM59s available. There are very few quality BM59's available. A few are available as cheap re-welded Garand receivers, but not very many. The quality BM59 style rifles are either Beretta BM62, BM69, or SA, Inc. BM59's. These are much, much more rare than CMP Garands.

A few original Garands were converted to BM59E configuration by Beretta. If you want an example of a BM59E, you HAVE to make one, or have it made, as they are unavailable in the USA except as parts kits.

There are far fewer genuine Beretta M1 Garands abvailable than CMP rifles.

If you want a good Garand styled rifle that takes detatchable mages, similar to BM59, might as well use one of the low range CMP Garands.

idsubgun July 14, 2004 05:29

When I talk about new SA receivers, I'm talking about SA,inc as the other SA hasn't been around for years.

Pluribus July 14, 2004 17:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Para Driver


sounds like the Oswald commerative model....

No Sir, I like the 6.5 bullet. Specifically the 6.5x55. I know a gentleman who has an Argentine Mauser that is chambered in the 6.5/06 and it is splendidly accurate.

I've thought about the 6.5x55 in the Garand and then, it occured to me why waste the length of the M1 action. I think it would make a good combination.

gunsmoke July 15, 2004 16:51

Way back in 1979 at a Houston gunshow, I saw two FN49s converted to accept modified BAR mags. The fellow who had done this had them up for sale with 20 modified mags each and the original trigger assemblies which if replaced restored the two FN 49s to original condition.

He had installed a paddle type mag catch on the substitute trigger group and had welded a U - shaped lug on the rear of each of the mags. My recollection is that he was asking $450 or there abouts for each.

I don't think a day has gone by since that I haven't fantasized about those two guns.

Savary July 16, 2004 23:53

Anyone, does the Garand bolt require any modifications to allow it to feed from the M14 magazine?

Pluribus, I agree, the 6.5x55 is top notch! Without doubt, itís the best of the 6.5ís. High sectional density, low recoil, and very accurate. In Europe itís as popular as our 30.06.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2012 The FAL Files