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-   -   armor piercing 30 cal and reloading brass??????? (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59308)

AP101 December 15, 2002 20:17

armor piercing 30 cal and reloading brass???????
 
I want to load a bunch of 30 cal AP tips I bought. Since you can't buy AP 308 loaded anymore--sucks---I am gonna start reloading cuz I love punching holes in steel. The 165 grain AP tips should be fine in an FAL, but how can I tell what brass is reloadable and which is not, and how many reloads can I get out of the cases?--My FAL dents the mouth in a bit---thanks in advance

Racer December 15, 2002 22:20

It all depends on what kind of milsurp you're shooting.

Throw away all of the Russian Wolf cases and anything else that isn't a brass case.

Look down inside the case mouth of a fired round. If you see two off-center primer holes the case is Berdan primed. Throw it away, it can be reloaded, but it's not worth the trouble. The Radway Green and the Portugese milsurp ammo are all Berdan primed.

If your cases are brass and have a single centered primer flash hole, the cases are Boxer primed. Boxer primers are readily available.

I have successfully reloaded Hirtenberger, Winchester and various other USGI Boxer primed brass with good results.

Since you appear to be reloader newbie, pick yourself up a good reloading manual that covers all the bases on case preparation and reloading.

Racer :biggrin:

1gewehr December 16, 2002 09:03

I think that what you are asking is how you can tell what kind of brass is reloadable by looking at it BEFORE it is fired.
Answer: You can't except to know who made Boxer-primed ammo.

The only Boxer primed ammo available cheaply is USGI, Israeli, and some of the Hirtenberger.

Reloading 165gr bullets isn't as simple as yanking the bullets from existing cartridges and replacing it with the 165gr AP. Surplus ball ammo has 145-147gr bullets. The heavier 165gr may cause overpressure problems unless you reduce the powder charge.

The best way to load AP cartridges is to use once-fired clean cases and build up a reliable, accurate load slowly from standard reloading data.

Cases may normally be reloaded 3-5 times before problems occur. The 7.62NATO cartridge is a high-pressure round which does not enjoy extremely long case life. Don't worry about the case mouth dings. Your dies should remove them. Also keep all of your cartridges in groups so you know how many times they have been reloaded. If your cases show ANY signs of problems, toss them. It is always cheaper to throw away cases than to buy a new rifle and/or pay medical bills.
1gewehr

SpitNine December 16, 2002 12:42

My Experience
 
When loading pulled GI AP bullets:
If you seat to crimp the case in the existing cannelure, the over-all cartridge length will be too long to fit into FAL magazine.
Will, however, fit and function in M1A mags and rifle.
Thanks.

GySgt D December 19, 2002 05:27

Try the 150 grain AP that is available. There are some issues with using the long AP bullets over the ones that you will find in the load books. Bearing surface and seating depth are two issues that you will have to contend with.


Here is what I use:
http://members.tripod.com/~Christian...ot/reload.html

Survey Punk December 19, 2002 06:25

You may want to check into the legal issues involved. Seems to me AP loaded into 30-06 is perfectly fine but in 7.62 it becomes a federal offense. This, of course, makes no sense but when has that changed anything?

Punk

rwwje December 24, 2002 13:28

Its legal to reload the pulled surplus (not new) AP bullets into .308. Its not legal to make the actual bullets unless properly licensed. The legal definition of "armor piercing ammo" refers to the bullet only.

If you sell any of your reloaded AP rounds (or even just the bullets) you must keep a bound book record (no NICS req'd) of the sale for two years if you have a C&R or FFL. If your not licensed, no records required.

perdurabo December 27, 2002 15:37

If you cant crimp at the cannelure on 163gr 30 cal AP and have it fit in an FAL mag, can you crimp it further up and expect it to perform safely and effectively?

I havent seen any of the 150gr AP projectiled for sale anywhere. Where can you find it?

Also, has anyone ever tried any pulldown surplus WC846(PD) powder in .308 loads before? Its advertised as having the same data as Hodgdon BL-C(2) and is qite a lot cheaper tha commercial powders.

BUFF December 27, 2002 18:26

Wideners ( www.wideners.com )has two weights of GI AP pulled bullets, under 150 grains, for sale, one from 7.62 NATO/.308 and one from .30-06.

I don't think you will need a crimp if your resizing die and expander ball are properly dimensioned.

perdurabo December 27, 2002 18:36

Do you have a Widener's part number for that 150gr. AP bullet? I cant find it anywhere on their website or in their SGN ad in the 12/20 issue.

c east December 29, 2002 20:15

Been playing with these for years...Get a Lee factory Crimp Die and seat to proper length for 308 and I use 846 surplus..The 150 is made different and tends to break off if it does not hit straight on...the M-2 APs Will not...The m-2s are the ones pulled from the 06...Get lots now if you like them...I have 2000 150s if you want to buy them...

stargazer December 30, 2002 14:35

I second the Lee Factory Crimp die! I loaded a dummy round up once with one of these. I wanted the bullet back so I used that case/bullet to expand the case mouths on (100) new cases and it didn't even loosen it up! Took a pair of pliers and still can't get it to loosen up! That's tight. Lee Factory Crimp Die, it works! No cannelure needed.

perdurabo January 08, 2003 16:44

Quote:

Originally posted by c east
Been playing with these for years...Get a Lee factory Crimp Die and seat to proper length for 308
So, what is the OAL of the finished cartridge when he bullet is seated and crimped to a depth that will fit in an FAL magazine?

And, what WC 846 load should I work up from and to since seating the bullet further back will increase pressures past those already expected for 163gr projectiles designed for 7.62x51? Wouldnt using regular .308 load data on a 30.06 black tip shoved far down into a .308 case be potentially dangerous due to this increased pressure from the increased depth?

stargazer January 08, 2003 18:35

I seated to 2.795", same as the milsurp rounds we shoot. I checked the fired cases very carefully and they showed NO signs of overpressure whatsoever. Used WIN748, 42 grs. In a milsurp case, this was full, not compressed. In a commercial .308 case, there was room for more, not much more, maybe a grain or two.

The bullets are legal to possess, legal to reload into .308 cases, legal to shoot, just DO NOT RESELL the loaded ammo.

perdurabo January 08, 2003 19:35

Quote:

Originally posted by stargazer
I seated to 2.795", same as the milsurp rounds we shoot. I checked the fired cases very carefully and they showed NO signs of overpressure whatsoever. Used WIN748, 42 grs. In a milsurp case, this was full, not compressed. In a commercial .308 case, there was room for more, not much more, maybe a grain or two.

All my milsurp South African, Portugese and Spanish 7.62x51 mics at 2.785". Im not so sure how significant .010" seating depth is to pressure differential, however.

Does anyone have a WC846/BL-C2 load (start and max) for 163gr. .30-06 pulled black tip seated to ~2.785" OAL and factory crimped in milsurp (Lake City, preferrebly) 7.62x51 NATO brass?

Many thanks


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