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-   -   .38 S&W/ .30/200 availability (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312271)

Opie June 11, 2011 23:40

.38 S&W/ .30/200 availability
 
Anyone see any .38S&W or milsurp .38 ammo for the Enfield or Webley wheelgun out there? I haven't been able to find any around in my area, and I am down pretty low on my service ammo for it. Is the diameter of the .38 Enfield slug the same as the .38 SPL or .357? If so I think that I could make some loads that would be decent for it, but I really prefer the service loads since they shoot quite well in my tanker gun. Thanks in advance for any help.

shortround June 12, 2011 00:27

AIM has some Privi:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...ox&groupid=346

Opie June 12, 2011 01:19

cool...wonder if I can pull the lead slugs and put jacketed hollowpoints, or FMJ's on top of the charge. I shot some Remy LRN and it didn't shoot worth anything...maybe minute of barn door at 25 yards. Service ammo shoots great in it....puts all six rounds into about a 4 in circle at about 25 yards.

jdmcomp June 12, 2011 06:05

The diameter of the 38 S&W is larger then the 38 Special. You cannot replace the bullet with a 38 Special bullet. There is very little available in 38 S&W, but the 200 gr load (also known as 38 New Police as I remember) is not too bad for the period. Surplus ammo is gone to collectors these days.

That said, there is lots of 38 S&W available if you look. All will be the 148 gr load respecting the very early black powder revolvers in this caliber. You could reload your own, as brass and bullets are available. Load data will be somewhat hard to come by and you should only load to factory specs or less if your pistol is one of those old BP types.

ftierson June 12, 2011 12:46

You might also see some older ammo marked .38 Colt New Police. It's just a .38 S&W load with a 150 grain hard lead bullet, and will shoot just fine in an Enfield revolver...

Forrest

Retired Bum June 12, 2011 15:02

Fiocchi offers the .38 S&W with the 178 grain FMJ RN that duplicates the old British .380 inch SAA Ball military load. The Fiocchi is boxer primed and non corrosive. Every so often Midway lists it in their monthly flyer at a reasonable price.

I have seen milsurp stamped FN and with dates in the 50's. Pal of mine bought several boxes to shoot in his Webley Mark IV .38 police model marked Singapore Police Force. It shot to point of aim but there was about a 20 percent misfire rate. I handload the round so we pulled the bullets and salvaged the powder. Loaded them in once fired R-P cases and they worked just fine.

My .38 S&W is a Model 33 four inch Regulation Police. It is sighted for the old 145 grain RNL load. But the heavier 178 grain FMJ shot less than one inch from point of aim at 30 feet.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

Opie June 12, 2011 20:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Retired Bum
Fiocchi offers the .38 S&W with the 178 grain FMJ RN that duplicates the old British .380 inch SAA Ball military load. The Fiocchi is boxer primed and non corrosive. Every so often Midway lists it in their monthly flyer at a reasonable price.

I have seen milsurp stamped FN and with dates in the 50's. Pal of mine bought several boxes to shoot in his Webley Mark IV .38 police model marked Singapore Police Force. It shot to point of aim but there was about a 20 percent misfire rate. I handload the round so we pulled the bullets and salvaged the powder. Loaded them in once fired R-P cases and they worked just fine.

My .38 S&W is a Model 33 four inch Regulation Police. It is sighted for the old 145 grain RNL load. But the heavier 178 grain FMJ shot less than one inch from point of aim at 30 feet.

And so it goes.


The Retired One




Awesome...that is what I am looking for. Now to find someone around here that is a dealer or distributor for Fiocchi ammo, and to find out what data I can provide them with in ordering this. Even better would be to order it directly from them if I can.

LAFAL June 12, 2011 21:15

If you're into reloading I have a Lyman 190gr RN and a bullseye load that will duplicate the British Service Equivelant load. The sights for the Enfield #1 and Webleys are regulated to hit POA with the heavy 200gr bullet. This one is spot on at 25yds. I (stupidly) sold my Enfield pistol when I got out of re-enacting but still have the mold. The unsized .358 bullet with Lee's Alox tumble lubed bullet shoots just fine.

ammolab June 12, 2011 23:01

Current Fiocchi catalog only shows 145gr FMJ or Lead bullet. Midway lists just the FMJ at about 28 bucks a box. Looks Like GI but the light bullet may still shoot low for you.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=243344

idsubgun June 13, 2011 12:27

Quote:

Originally posted by jdmcomp
The diameter of the 38 S&W is larger then the 38 Special. You cannot replace the bullet with a 38 Special bullet. There is very little available in 38 S&W, but the 200 gr load (also known as 38 New Police as I remember) is not too bad for the period. Surplus ammo is gone to collectors these days.


The case diameter is larger (.380" for .38 S&W, .379" for .38 Special) but the bullet diameter is the same, .357-.358, depending on jacketed or lead.

Opie,

I have an old S&W Lemon Squeezer in .38 S&W that belonged to my grandfather when he was the constable of Camargo County, Illinois about 100 years ago. The loads my dad gave me when he passed the pistol down to me were as follows:

158 RN Lead Cast - 2.6 grs. Bullseye
147 Lead Cast Flat Nose - 4.0 grs. Unique
124 Lead Cast - 4.5 grs. Unique (not sure of the bullet shape as they were all shot from that box. Just said "124 cast" on it.

All these bullets were ones he cast using his .38/.357 molds.

My Speer Reloading Manual #11 shows loads for 110 gr., 125 gr., 148 gr. and 158 gr. bullets, either .357" or .358" as was mentioned before.

No idea about bullet diameter for the .38 Enfield as I've never owned one.


http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/bjplowman/4.jpg

ammolab June 13, 2011 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by idsubgun
[B]

The case diameter is larger (.380" for .38 S&W, .379" for .38 Special) but the bullet diameter is the same, .357-.358, depending on jacketed or lead.

While many people use or recommend bullets of .357" for the old S&W round the specified diameter for the bullet is .361".

idsubgun June 13, 2011 12:55

Quote:

Originally posted by ammolab


While many people use or recommend bullets of .357" for the old S&W round the specified diameter for the bullet is .361".

It'd be interesting to slug the bore on my old S&W revolver to see what the actual size is.
BUT, I'm good with using the smaller diameter bullets. Less pressures on this old revolver! I don't shoot it very often. I ran probably 50 rounds thru it when I got it, stripped it completely down and cleaned/lubed it, and it's been in the safe ever since.

W.E.G. June 13, 2011 14:15

$100 worth of correct-size bullets should last you a LONG time unless you plan on training to shoot "El Presidente" with your .38 S&W

http://www.missouribullet.com/detail...y=29&keywords=

http://www.missouribullet.com/cw3/as...nded/38s&w.jpg

ammolab June 13, 2011 14:31

Quote:

Originally posted by W.E.G.
$100 worth of correct-size bullets should last you a LONG time unless you plan on training to shoot "El Presidente" with your .38 S&W

http://www.missouribullet.com/detail...y=29&keywords=

http://www.missouribullet.com/cw3/as...nded/38s&w.jpg

If only they made a correct WEIGHT for us 38/200 Webley or Victory model Smith shooters (180 to 200gr).

W.E.G. June 13, 2011 15:06

Quote:

Originally posted by ammolab


If only they made a correct WEIGHT for us 38/200 Webley or Victory model Smith shooters (180 to 200gr).

Fair point.

Try this if you need the heavy bullet.
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...cfia0tn54qjvo0

http://www.mattsbullets.com/images/Img_7267.jpg

W.E.G. June 13, 2011 15:09

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...SW-20ft-SA.jpg

ammolab June 13, 2011 15:23

That is what I need!! thanks!

sweetwine June 13, 2011 15:56

How about 148 gr Hollow Base Wad Cutter 38 bullet? Would slug up to fit the bore. Make a good stopper.

Retired Bum June 13, 2011 16:17

As I posted earlier in this thread I handload the .38 S&W round. My standard handload is the Lyman #358477 which is a 150 grain SWC. I size it .358 inch and this bullet gives decent accuracy from my old Model 33.

I have also used the Hornady 148 grain HBWC with good results. The Hornady doesn't have conventional lube grooves. The entire bullet is sprayed or tumbled with some kind of dry waxy lubricant. I seat the bullet to the maximum OAL which lets the loaded round fully chamber. I apply a roll crimp into the soft lead. I've found that I can fire all five rounds in the cylinder and not have to worry about bullet movement under recoil.

I've tried using 110 and 125 grain JHP's with poor results. Accuracy with these .357 inch diameter bullets is somewhat erratic. If I want a hollowpoint load for the .38 S&W I'd just seat the HBWC upside down.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

FUUN063 June 26, 2011 23:45

I shoot these Winchesters in mine. I also still have a box or two of the old Western Super-X and a couple boxes of the Remington stuff. Mostly the 145 grain pills, but some 200 grainers, too. A local gun shp ordered these by mistake, thinking that they were .38 Specials. I saw them on the shelf and asked. I then traded him some factory plain jane .38 Special factory loaded ammo, box for box.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/...38SW002jpg.jpg


Leland:shades:

vmtz June 27, 2011 07:54

Slug your bore. Mine S&W Victory shoots fine with 38/357 bullets. My current load is 3.2gr Unique under a 160gr lead bullet.

Vince

John Culver June 28, 2011 13:22

Grafs has loaded ammo with 145gr LRN
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/19918

jwaters June 28, 2011 19:14

A guy on castboolits is running a group buy on correct molds. I ordered one. NEI makes them too, but this mold is up to 5 cavity.

The Fiocchi ammo made for the Enfield (and other British revolvers) is sweet. It was imported about 3-4 years ago, haven't seen it since. It was not cheap! But shoots to Point of Aim in the Enfield. I'm keeping the few boxes I got. Tried to order more but it was gone quickly. I forget what's it's labeled exactly.

And loading 357 diameter bullets in the Enfield usually results in less than acceptable results, to me, at least.

The Magtech or Fiocchi 148 gr is ok if you can't get anything else, but it usually shoots low. Really low in a British service revolver.

It you have "Pet Loads", it covers loading for the Enfield.

JW

jdmcomp June 28, 2011 20:43

idsubgun, many do use 357 dia bullets in 38 S&W but the correct size is .360. Always has been and always will be. I have heard and cannot verify that S&W, when making the Brit Victory models, used 38 special barrels to save money and the gun was certainly strong enough that it would not make a difference.

I guess that with your shooting skills it simply does not make a difference so go ahead and use the smaller bullet.

It will be hard to get the dies to work when crimping with the bullet too small and 38 special dies will be too deep and too small so I would suggest using 9mm luger dies to seat the bullet.

I do cring when I read some of the dumb things posted here in. Simply use the search engine and the truth will be yours.


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