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-   -   FAL won't eject spent shell? (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167149)

DMG April 09, 2006 18:11

FAL won't eject spent shell?
 
Hello, I have been lurking here for a while and have a problem with my FAL. It is a Century built on an Imbel reciever. The problem is that it does not eject the spent shell. I had to beat the charging handle against the shooting bench to get it open. I am shooting SA from a sealed battlepack so I don't think it is the ammo. The gun store I bought it from told me it shot great and that they knew the previous owner and I believe them but I need to figure out what is wrong with this thing. Any ideas? Thanks, David

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 18:16

Probably a dumb question but is the gasplug in the grenade position?

DMG April 09, 2006 18:28

I don't know? I had the adjuster set to #5. Is that the same?

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 18:34

No,the gas plug sticks out of the front of the front sight/gasblock.It has an "A"on one side and a "G" on the other if it's Metric.You press the plunger in and you can rotate it.You want the "A" facing up.The inch has a groove on one side and is smooth on the other.You want the groove facing up on the inch type.Also when you rotate the plug don't let the piston pop out.

DMG April 09, 2006 18:38

The groove was down and now it is up and it still won't open without ~100 lbs of force.

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 18:39

Is there a shell in the chamber or is the chamber empty?

DMG April 09, 2006 18:41

There is an empty in the chamber.

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 18:50

How hard is it to cycle the action with no case in the chamber?An empty will stick a lot of times.The gas plug adjustment will only help with cycling when you are actually firing the rifle.When you fire it in the grenade position no gas gets to the piston.Try cycling it with no rounds in it.If it is still super hard check for galling or unusual wear on the inside of the receiver and bolt and carrier.

DMG April 09, 2006 18:54

I just bent the charging handle and the empty still won't come out. I will try using my boot to force it open. Then I will tell you if it is hard to cycle empty.

DMG April 09, 2006 19:00

It opens ok without a shell in there. The spent shell alone sticks in the chamber very badly.

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 19:05

A spent shell expands slightly and usually wont hand cycle well.Check the chamber for burrs.If it's okay,you can try it out at the range now that the gasplug is in the right position.

DMG April 09, 2006 19:08

Should I have to stand on the charging handle to get the spent shell out? That makes me nervous.

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 19:09

It does seem excessive.But if you were firing it and there wasn't a problem with ruptured cases it would seem safe.

W.E.G. April 09, 2006 19:10

Somebody please explain how the WECSOG pogo prevents bent cocking handles.

Slamming the knob against a fixed object sends the inertia of the bolt mass in the WRONG direction.

Shoot that rifle with the knob in the MAXIMUM gas position.

Re-chambering a spent shell casing into the chamber of a gas-operated semi-auto always causes the problem you experienced.

DMG April 09, 2006 19:16

I think instead of shooting it with the gas up all the way I will return it to the gun store that assured me it was a great shooter. It gets one more chance at the range. Thank you all for your help.

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 19:28

Don't give up too easily.That's a good receiver you have there.

DMG April 09, 2006 19:33

It is just frustrating that my $90 SKS works and this doesn't.

What is that wescog pogo someone mentioned?

I don't see any burrs in the chamber. What can I do about this aside from replacing the barrel?

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 19:41

The barrel shouldn't need replacing.Like Gary alluded to,if it won't cycle on 5 with the gasplug in the proper position,try a little more gas.I bet it will function properly when you take it to the range.

DMG April 09, 2006 19:45

Ok. I didn't hit it with anything, just pushed it hard against the bench and used my foot on it once. I know a spot where I can shoot it tonight so I will put a little tetralube on the shells and try a few.

Deltaten April 09, 2006 19:56

DMG:

The "pogo" is a proceedure by which ya use the weight of the bolt/bolt carrier itself to extract the shell. Bodies in movement and equal and opposite reactions sorta thing! ;)

Muzzle up, mag out. place right hand on fore end, left hand on the CH with some down presure. Raise the wep some distance from the ground and [gently] slam the butt to the ground; keeping pressure on the CH. AS the wep stops suddenly, the carrier will tend to keep moving. Using yer hand to keep the CH moving and prevent it from bouncing fwd again. REpeat as needed, increasing the mount of force 'till it's clear.

The "pogo" *will* become second nature. The brass stuck 'cause it was an empty, forced BACK into the chamber after a short stroke; usually caused by a low gas selection. AN increase of gas *should* rectify the situ, if all other physical opbstructions are eliminated.

DOn't give up yet. It's part of yer FAL badge course ;)

Best,
Paul

frtyfivsevnty April 09, 2006 20:01

Odd,I've never had to do the pogo.Now that I've said that I probably will.:D

DMG April 09, 2006 21:12

It works great now. Amazing. Did I do anything right on my first day at the range with my :fal: ? :rofl:

I am surprised by the lack of recoil.


Thank you for helping me figure this out.

Cava3r4 April 09, 2006 21:19

next up...next time you have different ammo....
have only one round in the magazine and fire the weapon....the bolt should lock to the rear.
if it does not.....give it more gas
It seems to me that you are to be "two clicks rich" on the gas
In other words if you start at zero and bolt does not stay open but it extracts the empty fired case, you add more gas till the bolt stays open....then you add one or two more clicks of gas (one is less wear and tear) for positive extraction, no short stroke and bolt hold open functions.
HTH
Bob
PS...guys ...its been a while....please correct me if I am wrong. TIA

W.E.G. April 09, 2006 23:13

1 Attachment(s)
maximum gas setting

W.E.G. April 09, 2006 23:13

1 Attachment(s)
medium gas setting

W.E.G. April 09, 2006 23:14

1 Attachment(s)
low gas setting

DMG April 10, 2006 06:32

Mine has numbers for the gas setting and the highest seems to be 1 and the lowest is 11. Even with it set to low so it would not eject it did not jam with it off the grenade setting. I wonder if that caused excessive pressure and swelled the brass a bit?

frtyfivsevnty April 10, 2006 17:27

Glad it's working for you.Now if I can get my shortened Mini 14 to run right I'll be in good shape too.

DMG April 11, 2006 17:55

How much did you take off the mini?

762holes April 11, 2006 18:20

Do you see the little port on the regulator?

It's pretty much closed off at the high gas setting, this means all of the gas is acting on the gas piston.

It's open wide in the low gas position, this means lots of gas is escaping out the regulator port and less is acting on the gas piston.

You can't see it, but when you rotate the gas plug in to the Gr position, it restricts the gas before it gets to the gas piston. This means there is more gas in the barrel to launch the grenade.

No matter what your gas setting, the pressure in the cartridge will be similar. The only change is the amount of gas acting on the gas piston and that has nothing to do with "excessive pressure" which usually refers to headspace problems, double charges or oversized projectiles.

frtyfivsevnty April 11, 2006 19:47

The mini had about 4 inches taken off.It's 16 3/4 with the permanent fh.

W.E.G. April 11, 2006 19:56

Quote:

Originally posted by DMG
I wonder if that caused excessive pressure and swelled the brass a bit?
No.

No excessive pressure there.

You need to understand the simple fact that brass ejected from a FAL
(or most any other gas-operated semi-auto) CANNOT be re-chambered
without the brass sticking in the chamber. That's just the way it works.

DMG April 13, 2006 17:44

Good to know, thanks. It was really in there!


Re: mini-14. maybe bullet leaves the barrel before enough gas bleeds off to operate the rifle?

frtyfivsevnty April 13, 2006 17:47

Yeah it's short stroking(HAHAHAHA).I need to open up the gas port.I've just been lazy about it.


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