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-   -   I don't like minimum wages because... (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422587)

RG Coburn January 01, 2018 20:09

I don't like minimum wages because...
 
...it brings the bottom up closer to those making more than minimum wage. It is a pay CUT to anybody making over minimum. Those making more than minimum are now that much closer to the bottom. There are no automatic scale increases all the way up.So if you say,make $15 an hour,and they increase the minimum by 50 cents,you are now .50 cents closer to the minimum wage. I would be 100% in favor of elimination of it altogether.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...8-states-today

clodhopper January 02, 2018 10:34

Any reasonable person would agree with you. In addition to the reduction of wage range, it also makes it harder for young people to get into the workforce to gain skills. Generally it only improves the situation for minimum workers for a short period until the inflation, imparted by the raise in minimum, raises the prices of goods and pay for other workers.

Most people only work at minimum a short time and the workers who are consistently working at minimum are still there because they either suck or refuse to accept responsibility, so they deserve to stay there. Raising the minimum only rewards the dregs.

yovinny January 02, 2018 21:05

Im no minimum wage advocate, but theirs another edge to that sword...
Someone making federal minimum wage today comes in under poverty level, so they can then qualify and get govt subsidies on top of that anyway.

Right Side Up January 03, 2018 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG Coburn (Post 4521005)
So if you say,make $15 an hour,and they increase the minimum by 50 cents,you are now .50 cents closer to the minimum wage. I would be 100% in favor of elimination of it altogether.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...8-states-today


If I actually got 15 dollars for every hour I worked over the course of my life I'd be a very wealthy man.

I've given far too much time away to people and that's one thing that's come to a screeching halt.

clodhopper January 03, 2018 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Right Side Up (Post 4521549)
If I actually got 15 dollars for every hour I worked over the course of my life I'd be a very wealthy man.

I've given far too much time away to people and that's one thing that's come to a screeching halt.

http://thedailyjim.com/wp-content/up...-up-sucker.jpg

cotter January 03, 2018 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by yovinny (Post 4521502)
Im no minimum wage advocate, but theirs another edge to that sword...
Someone making federal minimum wage today comes in under poverty level, so they can then qualify and get govt subsidies on top of that anyway.

I would gladly subsidize someone who chooses to work over a pos sitting on their fat ars eating off an ebt card every day. Should their be a 'minimum wage?' Yes, I think so. Should it be a large number, their 'living wage?' Nope, somewhere inbetween lies the answer.

RG Coburn January 03, 2018 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotter (Post 4521649)
I would gladly subsidize someone who chooses to work over a pos sitting on their fat ars eating off an ebt card every day. Should their be a 'minimum wage?' Yes, I think so. Should it be a large number, their 'living wage?' Nope, somewhere inbetween lies the answer.

I can't take subsidizing anybody. Except maybe the military. It doesn't take genius to run mops,rakes or paint brushes. All about motivation.

Black Blade January 03, 2018 22:38

Minimum Wage in Seattle and some folk printed cards to leave as "tips" for those workers ...

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/aee...c94693bb_r.jpg

TedKennedy January 04, 2018 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Blade (Post 4521889)
Minimum Wage in Seattle and some folk printed cards to leave as "tips" for those workers ...

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/aee...c94693bb_r.jpg

The poorest paid workers in the country unite and get some better wages. 15 bucks an hour on the left coast, probably living like kings, lol.

I don't like government forcing minimum wages on folks, but if they're dictating everything else, it might as well be to the benefit of those who are willing to work. If a dude or chick provides great service - whether it's a waiter or a plumber, I'll tip.

Having sweated in the Oklahoma sun working for other folks....the ones that tipped or handed me a glass of iced tea were angels. Why wouldn't I want to do the same?

clodhopper January 04, 2018 19:04

Governmental salary mandates are simply refusal to understand and trust economics. Salary levels will adjust to the agreeable point between employers and employees, on its own. Employers can't get good help? They will raise pay levels until better employees find it acceptable. Employees feel they are underpaid? Go find a better paying job and your old employer will be stuck with a work opening or find someone who will work for that rate or offer more to get a good employee. It all works out.

Unfortunately, we have this huge contingent of people in this country who have been steeped in this idea that no one is trustworthy and we need a government to set rules and determine fairness.

Then there is another huge contingent of people who have been raised to believe they are owed some form of living wage regardless of their skills and abilities. If you suck, you deserve crap pay. Don't like it? Do a better job or get some training.

As I said before, all minimum wage increases do is push up inflation. The market keeps a balance of value to effort. The government can try and tweak things to meet some social engineering goal, but the market with absorb it with a balancing effect somewhere else.

The only parties that should have any control over what I get paid are my employer and me. Both parties have equal right to turn down a pay rate relative to work duties. Why should some bureaucrat that doesn't know my skills or my job requirements determine what baseline pay should be? No minimum allows that individual who has gumption and brains but no experience to get into a job and prove themselves. The real losers are the teenagers who will have a much harder time starting out. Who is going to risk $15/hour on the possibility of a complete bonehead or legal liability?

Thinking that the same minimum rate is applicable in all parts of the country is 'ludicris'. As we all know, it costs the same to live in rural Arkansas as it does Manhattan.

Anyone who is in favor of the $15 minimum wage answer this question.... Why set the minimum at $15? If $15 is good, wouldn't $20 be better? Why not just determine what a year's salary should be for everyone and just enact legislation to mandate it? John Galt will be the outcome.

OLDMANPBK January 04, 2018 19:54

A related article. How to pay the people made irrelevant by automation.

http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=12507

TedKennedy January 05, 2018 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by clodhopper (Post 4522212)
Governmental salary mandates are simply refusal to understand and trust economics. Salary levels will adjust to the agreeable point between employers and employees, on its own. Employers can't get good help? They will raise pay levels until better employees find it acceptable. Employees feel they are underpaid? Go find a better paying job and your old employer will be stuck with a work opening or find someone who will work for that rate or offer more to get a good employee. It all works out.

Unfortunately, we have this huge contingent of people in this country who have been steeped in this idea that no one is trustworthy and we need a government to set rules and determine fairness.

Then there is another huge contingent of people who have been raised to believe they are owed some form of living wage regardless of their skills and abilities. If you suck, you deserve crap pay. Don't like it? Do a better job or get some training.

As I said before, all minimum wage increases do is push up inflation. The market keeps a balance of value to effort. The government can try and tweak things to meet some social engineering goal, but the market with absorb it with a balancing effect somewhere else.

The only parties that should have any control over what I get paid are my employer and me. Both parties have equal right to turn down a pay rate relative to work duties. Why should some bureaucrat that doesn't know my skills or my job requirements determine what baseline pay should be? No minimum allows that individual who has gumption and brains but no experience to get into a job and prove themselves. The real losers are the teenagers who will have a much harder time starting out. Who is going to risk $15/hour on the possibility of a complete bonehead or legal liability?

Thinking that the same minimum rate is applicable in all parts of the country is 'ludicris'. As we all know, it costs the same to live in rural Arkansas as it does Manhattan.

Anyone who is in favor of the $15 minimum wage answer this question.... Why set the minimum at $15? If $15 is good, wouldn't $20 be better? Why not just determine what a year's salary should be for everyone and just enact legislation to mandate it? John Galt will be the outcome.

Again, I'm not in favor of the government doing much of anything.

But why would I hold it against the chick/guy working that min wage job? If they're busting their butts, I'll tip them. (rewarding good behavior sometimes produces good results - sometimes)

Holding every minimum wage worker at fault for the law is as illogical as blaming RSS or Rowjimmy for the idiots electing idiots in their respective states.

Having been in on the corporate side of things for quite a few years now, I can also say that some companies lie, conspire and orchestrate ways to pay employees less, while paying the upper-level folks more, meanwhile putting on the poormouth. Unions try to squeeze every nickel they can, companies do the same. Loyalty means zero to most, and employees know it. There's a lack of loyalty to American workers, you see it in the jobs being moved overseas, offshore banks, shadow corporations. The ridiculous wages a beginning employee is paid are only outdone by the ridiculous suicidal laws that allow what's happened to out manufacturing base.

clodhopper January 05, 2018 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedKennedy (Post 4522371)
Again, I'm not in favor of the government doing much of anything.

But why would I hold it against the chick/guy working that min wage job? If they're busting their butts, I'll tip them. (rewarding good behavior sometimes produces good results - sometimes)

Holding every minimum wage worker at fault for the law is as illogical as blaming RSS or Rowjimmy for the idiots electing idiots in their respective states.

Having been in on the corporate side of things for quite a few years now, I can also say that some companies lie, conspire and orchestrate ways to pay employees less, while paying the upper-level folks more, meanwhile putting on the poormouth. Unions try to squeeze every nickel they can, companies do the same. Loyalty means zero to most, and employees know it. There's a lack of loyalty to American workers, you see it in the jobs being moved overseas, offshore banks, shadow corporations. The ridiculous wages a beginning employee is paid are only outdone by the ridiculous suicidal laws that allow what's happened to out manufacturing base.

Experiences differ. Have been a part of management at a number of companies. I have repeatedly seen companies trying to do the best for their employees at all levels while trying to find a profit despite the governmental regulations and documentation requirements. An overbearing and confiscatory government greatly contributes to companies outsourcing overseas. There are often little benefit to overseas operations for services with the exception of services that are completely over the internet or by electronic document. I don't see companies just hoping for the opportunity to offshore labor, but rather do it because there is little other option to stay in business. I suspect with the new tax law, offshoring will slow or stop for the most part.

However, if you have determined that companies are vultures trying to keep labor in poverty, then all the minimum wage does is prop that up. If a sh1tbag company owner insists on paying crap wages, employees will leave and work elsewhere. The crap employer either fixes the problem or goes out of business. It is govt tinkering that keeps these situations in place.

I am not advocating penalizing the employee with the tipping thing. However, it is the market at work. If a server gets fed up with not getting tips despite an inflated wage, they can quit and work somewhere else or find a new line of work. If enough servers leave the workplace, the owner will have trouble getting the clients attended to, and that headache will cause them to put pressure on the local political reps. I guarantee it is the squeaky wheels that cause new legislation to be written. When the business owners are demanding change rather than just the whiny expectant freeloader types, laws will be revised.

Bertellione January 16, 2018 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Blade (Post 4521889)
Minimum Wage in Seattle and some folk printed cards to leave as "tips" for those workers ...

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/aee...c94693bb_r.jpg

I'm going to give you a bit of an education that most folks are not aware of. Most service people such as a waitress or waiter do not make true minimum wage, I don't care about Washington but you should always be aware of proper edicut for the surroundings you are in. 99% of the time a job where they get tips the employer pays less than minimum wage it's usually a bit more than half. I know this because I have worked those type of jobs then the employer makes them pay the bus boy or the piece of shit restaurant bar tender all to make good money for 5 hours but takes 12 hours of the day for those who do it for a living.

I also lived in Southeast Asia for a few years as a teacher before coming back home due to a military uprising. I would see people over pay or tip when should not because it makes them feel better but makes it harder for the expats that live there and work for the same money due to the fact most foreigners don't truly understand the money exchange and how much more it cost a foreigner to live in home country so they believe all foreigners are rich.

Would I say you should tip the douche with dreadlocks and twenty holes in their face at StarBucks hell no. But if an individual in this country waits on you then you should if not enjoy the spit next time you go there because they have to pay for you to sit at that table even if you don't tip.

Nomad, 2nd January 16, 2018 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedKennedy (Post 4522371)
Again, I'm not in favor of the government doing much of anything.

But why would I hold it against the chick/guy working that min wage job? If they're busting their butts, I'll tip them. (rewarding good behavior sometimes produces good results - sometimes)

.



Because the whole design of the system is to give them a low base rate, with the possibility of MUCH higher for good service.

-last meal out I had I left a 25% tip.
Because she earned it.


But @ $15 they already are being paid well enoighfor unskilled service.
Servers who want that are poor servers, because a good one makes FAR MORE!

I agree with the OP. Some jobs/people don't rate minimum wage.
For instance: I was saposto help set up the New Orleans new years Fireworks display.

I am medically retired from the Corps and.... work slowly (to be chairatable) so I told my buddy who wanted my help to pay me 1/2 what he was paying his other help.

These laws do not allow for the "slow, or disabled" to work, and make them go on the Gov dole (which I am.)

Conversely: before my 4th surgery I never had an issue getting high compensation. (2012 I was getting only $25/hour, but unlimited overtime. I hit overtime on Wednesday.) And it went up from there.
(I'd say I wouldn't get out of bed for under $50/hour.)

How I did it was simple and what I told people they needed to do when I was a supervisor.
I earned whoever I was contracted with more than I cost.

When I was supervising 32 people and one came to me for a raise (as one did when she got a degree in English) "because now she has a degree" I asked her to show me how her degree helped the company/made her worth more to the company.

I then told her if she learned "X" I'd get her a raise. (I had the influence, but not the authority.)
She did and I did.

Want to make $200+/hour? Be worth $500.
(Don't forget you cost your employer far more than the $ you get.)

Exit308 January 16, 2018 22:06

Here is your list of minimum wages for tipped food service employees.:shades:

https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm


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