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-   -   A Bowie (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421657)

stimpsonjcat December 03, 2017 20:13

A Bowie
 
Not yours Paladin...I have an axe to grind before I get to your knife.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixgaw44iwo...start.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/anzr6ixsa9..._bent.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9u12cp47n...orged.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/husydri52u...CK8_6.jpg?dl=1

stimpsonjcat December 03, 2017 20:15

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lls3qp2183...elded.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9ehzqzqht...bkcb1.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xt2mybohc1...bkrss.jpg?dl=1

stimpsonjcat December 03, 2017 20:16

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8yw5d6agu...bkrs6.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xhxuogi8k...sspn1.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ura78isvzk...tpol1.jpg?dl=1

stimpsonjcat December 03, 2017 20:18

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nenl4mzcg...lmock.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyh8wdy57g...bkbc2.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvpybztphq...khdl3.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0yqubq33h...khdl2.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2c62rdpqg...khdl1.jpg?dl=1

0302 December 03, 2017 20:25

time to cut back on the firewater there stud

stimpsonjcat December 03, 2017 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0302 (Post 4509106)
time to cut back on the firewater there stud

Wut?

stimpsonjcat December 04, 2017 00:06

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IXgn_fQWdOE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qpc5s_3T3x8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

yovinny December 04, 2017 06:28

Nice work stimpy, looks great...:biggrin:

SWOHFAL December 04, 2017 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0302 (Post 4509106)
time to cut back on the firewater there stud


You first, chief.

slavicshooter December 04, 2017 15:12

Awesome Stimpy.:bow:~ss

KoKodog December 04, 2017 16:19

making knives from discarded tools becomes a form of art

this guy seems to be working from a clean slate,

doesn't look too difficult to replicate

you just need to be set up for the job


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AqcJNYp4VtQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

kotengu December 04, 2017 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4509379)
doesn't look too difficult...

That's because you aren't looking closely enough. :wink:

KoKodog December 04, 2017 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotengu (Post 4509383)
That's because you aren't looking closely enough. :wink:


use my entire statement if you want the proper context,
cherry pickin' skews everything


Quote:

doesn't look too difficult to replicate

you just need to be set up for the job

stimpsonjcat December 04, 2017 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4509379)

doesn't look too difficult to replicate

Agreed. pretty straight-forward assuming the metal is agreeable.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4509379)
you just need to be set up for the job

You just need a heat source and a hammer, right?

KoKodog December 07, 2017 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat (Post 4509525)
Agreed. pretty straight-forward assuming the metal is agreeable.

thats a big assumption, a leap of faith before starting

You just need a heat source and a hammer, right?


not quite ....... proper tooling will make a big difference

if you do not have a decent anvil it will take considerably more effort to pound out the steel and form it the way you wish

looks like he has several large belt grinders, a forge furnace, oil bath and more

Texgunner December 07, 2017 18:05

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l_POYXxRnWg?rel=0&amp;start=19&end=34" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VlXCy60exic?rel=0&amp;start=28&end=48" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sagerider December 08, 2017 22:10

Ol Jim there sure likes to give his freakin sword to any yahoo that comes along.

SawbriarRips December 09, 2017 00:01

OUTSTANDING WORK
 
Great work, approximately how many hours did this take?

"Don't you know cartoons will ruin your mind? Look what its done to your brain!" Ren Hoek (YOU IDIOT! THAT'S HOEK, NOT HWWAAARRRK!)

SR

stimpsonjcat December 09, 2017 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SawbriarRips (Post 4511297)
Great work, approximately how many hours did this take?
SR

Hmmmm...

1.5 initial forge to bent.

1.5 forged to grind start.

2 hours total grind time.

2 hours total time on furniture.

2 hours buff/polish.

1 hour on the scrimshaw so far...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m44pdu6yga...crim1.jpg?dl=1

SawbriarRips December 10, 2017 00:05

THATS QUICK WORK
 
The residual file/rasp surfaces give the blade great character.

Up the Irons

SR

stimpsonjcat December 12, 2017 10:09

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0a4fskjehy...pside.jpg?dl=1

tac-40 December 12, 2017 23:05

What material did you use for the pommel and bolster? The first pics looked like a white metal, but the finished product looked to be brass or bronze. Or was that just the camera lighting playing tricks? And last but not least, did you use your power hammer for the forming of the base blase or hand hammer it all the way?

Anyway, that thing looks good for the first attempt at a big knife. Scrimshaw was pretty good too.

stimpsonjcat December 12, 2017 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tac-40 (Post 4512849)
What material did you use for the pommel and bolster?

Technically there is no pommel, as it is a full tang design.
But all the bits, including the rear bolsters, are O-1 tool steel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tac-40 (Post 4512849)
The first pics looked like a white metal, but the finished product looked to be brass or bronze. Or was that just the camera lighting playing tricks?

It's O-1 tool steel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tac-40 (Post 4512849)
And last but not least, did you use your power hammer for the forming of the base blase or hand hammer it all the way?

The power hammer never touched this blade. It would have served no purpose as the power hammer is for billet-shaping and folds, which this knife needed neither of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tac-40 (Post 4512849)
Anyway, that thing looks good for the first attempt at a big knife. Scrimshaw was pretty good too.

This is hardly my first big knife.

This...
http://home.windstream.net/jbperry/img_knf/bcknife2.jpg
Is considerably more formidable at 2lbs+10oz and 20" overall.

tac-40 December 13, 2017 20:13

You did well attaching the rear bolsters. Since I didn't see any rivets like the the front, I assumed it was a pommel.

And right after I posted, I did recall you have produced other blades.

In any case, I , along with others, are impressed with you metal working skills. I could only wish that I had you shop, time to practice, and a modicum of you skill sets. I truly believe you are the epitome of a Renaissance man. Kudos to you, sir.

stimpsonjcat December 13, 2017 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4510704)
not quite ....... proper tooling will make a big difference

if you do not have a decent anvil it will take considerably more effort to pound out the steel and form it the way you wish

looks like he has several large belt grinders, a forge furnace, oil bath and more

So, Kotengu and I may be guilty of a little bit of tongue in cheek here.

The video reveals some not insignificant issues.

-He hits the metal a lot when non-radiant. A major no-no as it introduces unwanted stresses
-he makes a great bent tip, but then works the wrong side of the blade IMO. Maybe he wanted a cavalry sabre, but if he wanted a straighter blade form he needed to bend the blade the wrong way before working the edge to form to bend it the right way (see my pics above)
-the point of maximum flex is right where there is a left in place indented line across the blade. This area is right where the guard would be if a guard were included. I am guessing he did this to keep the section with the text intact. I get it, but it is structurally a problem.

I suspect Kotengu spotted some of this and that was the point of his comment.

stimpsonjcat December 13, 2017 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tac-40 (Post 4513284)
You did well attaching the rear bolsters. Since I didn't see any rivets like the the front, I assumed it was a pommel.

None of the pins are truly invisible, which, I have to admit, was a bit of a let-down, as I tried to peen them out to match the bolsters.

It's tricky business, trying to work steel bits inside other steel bits so they fit while the epoxy hardens. I think this is the reason so many smiths are going to ornamental pins and such. Slather everything in epoxy and screw the pins in and grind off the flat-head portions...it's so pretty!

KoKodog December 14, 2017 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat (Post 4513324)
So, Kotengu and I may be guilty of a little bit of tongue in cheek here.

The video reveals some not insignificant issues.

-He hits the metal a lot when non-radiant. A major no-no as it introduces unwanted stresses

-he makes a great bent tip, but then works the wrong side of the blade IMO. Maybe he wanted a cavalry sabre, but if he wanted a straighter blade form he needed to bend the blade the wrong way before working the edge to form to bend it the right way (see my pics above)

-the point of maximum flex is right where there is a left in place indented line across the blade. This area is right where the guard would be if a guard were included. I am guessing he did this to keep the section with the text intact. I get it, but it is structurally a problem.

I suspect Kotengu spotted some of this and that was the point of his comment.

possibly he wanted to form small stress cracks in order to induce more carbon into the steel, unless you ask him we will not know

I suspect he was going for the classic samurai profile for the blade

I belive you are correct about the line, but something tells me this is not a work blade, but a show blade

stimpsonjcat December 14, 2017 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4513523)
possibly he wanted to form small stress cracks in order to induce more carbon into the steel, unless you ask him we will not know

That's not how this works.

KoKodog December 15, 2017 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat (Post 4513705)
That's not how this works.

Well then you had best teach him

stimpsonjcat December 16, 2017 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4513921)
Well then you had best teach him

That is not my purpose in this world.

I'll make my things, and he will make his, and some will make nothing...and yet comment on those that did.

brunop December 16, 2017 03:09

:]

KoKodog December 16, 2017 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat (Post 4514149)
That is not my purpose in this world.

I'll make my things, and he will make his, and some will make nothing...and yet comment on those that did.


yeah, a box of old rail spikes does not count I guess .........

stimpsonjcat December 19, 2017 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4514299)
yeah, a box of old rail spikes does not count I guess .........

I read this as you have made some spike knives? Got pics?

Do you have a forge?

I am not your enemy, and it is clear you feel attacked in this thread. But for me, at least, it is odd to be getting lectured about this art about things it should be clear I already know. Not annoying, just odd.

KoKodog December 19, 2017 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat (Post 4515531)
I read this as you have made some spike knives? Got pics?

Do you have a forge?

I am not your enemy, and it is clear you feel attacked in this thread. But for me, at least, it is odd to be getting lectured about this art about things it should be clear I already know. Not annoying, just odd.

no pics, it was a time of little spare coin, a steep learning curve and no idea of what I was doing, learned thru the school of hard knocks on my one buddy's grandfathers equipment, lots of old home made one off items, but he did have a nice hand crank blower that was old back then, his grandfather showed us the easy way to start our fire w/ little wood, a few charcoal pieces & then start feeding it coal

all the rail spike knives were swiped by my buddys cousin, a real asshole, could not prove he took them, but he was known for doing that kind of shit, they were just basic, nothing like you see today w/ twists and loops, they were never fully finished, I considered them part of my learning curve

about 20 years ago I took a walk and picked up about 2-3 dozen spikes, they're still in a corner of the garage, a friend has been bugging me to give them up, 'cause he wants to make some rail spike knives like you see being made today they were supposed to be for a home made rake/harrow/ ? for landscaping the yard, but never got that far

stimpsonjcat December 20, 2017 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoKodog (Post 4515546)
no pics, it was a time of little spare coin, a steep learning curve and no idea of what I was doing, learned thru the school of hard knocks on my one buddy's grandfathers equipment, lots of old home made one off items, but he did have a nice hand crank blower that was old back then, his grandfather showed us the easy way to start our fire w/ little wood, a few charcoal pieces & then start feeding it coal

all the rail spike knives were swiped by my buddys cousin, a real asshole, could not prove he took them, but he was known for doing that kind of shit, they were just basic, nothing like you see today w/ twists and loops, they were never fully finished, I considered them part of my learning curve

about 20 years ago I took a walk and picked up about 2-3 dozen spikes, they're still in a corner of the garage, a friend has been bugging me to give them up, 'cause he wants to make some rail spike knives like you see being made today they were supposed to be for a home made rake/harrow/ ? for landscaping the yard, but never got that far

I have an ancient hand-crank, works great, but I have never connected it to anything.

kotengu December 20, 2017 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat (Post 4515935)
I have an ancient hand-crank, works great, but I have never connected it to anything.

Back in the good old days when we did primitive skills training we started with a human breath powered (via rivercane stalks) forge. Once we were able to make basic tools with that setup they let us "cheat" with a hand crank forge, and we thought we'd died and gone to heaven. :D

stimpsonjcat December 21, 2017 15:04

You couldn't make bellows out of a shirt?

kotengu December 21, 2017 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat (Post 4516370)
You couldn't make bellows out of a shirt?

Never thought about it. He showed us the Rivercane method, then we went to the hand crank.

Kind of like how we started off making a fire with a hand drill, then moved on to the bow drill. The bow drill was GREAT after learning the hand drill!

bouncer50 December 29, 2017 22:05

You do some really nice work. Question i have i seen a few file knifes That broke that guys. using them as pry bars You must have heat treat them so they hsve some give to them. I seen a home made Bowie made from a semi leaf spring. Made a really niice knife:love:

stimpsonjcat January 02, 2018 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouncer50 (Post 4519676)
You do some really nice work. Question i have i seen a few file knifes That broke that guys. using them as pry bars You must have heat treat them so they hsve some give to them. I seen a home made Bowie made from a semi leaf spring. Made a really niice knife:love:

Yes, this is an issue, and an unknown with this knife.

I tried several different heat treat methods on several files to see what worked best, but even the best was too brittle for me to sell someone as a 'working' knife. The owner was OK with taking possession of it as an 'art knife'.

The metal can be made soft from an abrasion standpoint, but is still brittle in that softened state.

I have a plan to make a mock version using real tool steel and pressing it on both sides with rasps. This gets the 'effect', but in a functional steel.

tac-40 January 03, 2018 14:01

Wouldn't a long tempering period between 500 and 600 reduce the brittleness while still maintaining the hardness? I know when I am making springs, the tempering time, as well as the temperature, is key to get the spring to perform correctly. Too short and the metal is very brittle and prone to breakage.

Of course this would require you for figure out if you could use your forge to hold the correct temperature or if you would need a separate tempering oven.

stimpsonjcat January 04, 2018 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tac-40 (Post 4521709)
Wouldn't a long tempering period between 500 and 600 reduce the brittleness while still maintaining the hardness? I know when I am making springs, the tempering time, as well as the temperature, is key to get the spring to perform correctly. Too short and the metal is very brittle and prone to breakage.

Of course this would require you for figure out if you could use your forge to hold the correct temperature or if you would need a separate tempering oven.

You cannot both temper and maintain hardness. Tempering, by definition, is the conversion of Martensite to something softer, either a less hard martensite or austenite if too much heat is allowed. You are allowing carbon to escape. The time factor is really a penetration issue, not a temperature issue. Once the piece is all the same temp, nothing new is going to happen to it if you kept it in the oven for days.

"I tried several different heat treat methods on several files" Sort of hurt you think I wouldn't attempt an abnormally long temper. Hell I did 5 full normalizing cycles on one of them. That's 2 days of just heating that one up and letting it cool as slowly as possible. Tempering doesn't mean squat if the metal is never Martensite, which can't happen without a quench.

Tempering merely removes the stresses that cause a (carbon) metal to be 'hard'. As mentioned, I was able to get it plenty 'soft', but never 'pliable'...in all cases it was still brittle, even in a state where it was easily filed.

I don't think they are carbon steel.

In the end it doesn't matter, as I don't intend to replicate this experiment. I am moving on to pattern-welded stuff from here.

STGThndr January 18, 2018 11:57

I'm not real sold on large file knives. Smaller ones work well tho, IME.
So, ummm, Stimpson, How much and how long to make a large bowie full tang BLADE if I were to send you a 2' length of leaf-spring? Thanks, Dun
DunRanull@AOL.com

stimpsonjcat January 18, 2018 16:56

Just the blade?

Gonna need more details to offer a price.


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