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-   -   South Africa and Rhodesian FALs. (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325323)

EMSflyer February 15, 2012 18:31

Did Rhodesia ever use 50.63 short para ?
 
I've seen pics of the 21" para in use by Rhodie forces
has anyone ever seen a pic or know if Rhodesians
ever used the 18" or 17.7" para model similar to
the 50.63 ?

I was just kicking around the idea of Rhodie painting
my Imbel/DSA 18" para.

The finish on the upper and lower don't match anyhow.
And I already have and use the Rhodie MB.

Fun idea to consider at any rate.

Thanks guys,

EMSflyer

GMB74 February 15, 2012 20:02

Since the Rhodies used anything they could lay their hands on, and repaired/modified what they had until it was totally worn out, it certainly is possible someone had a 50.63 or chopped a damaged barrel to produce a clone of one. It seems any time someone says "they never had or used that", information pops up proving they DID. Paint it, call it a Rhodie and if someone challenges it, make them prove you wrong.

RPBII February 15, 2012 20:33

The guy on the right looks to have an carbine. Anything is possible.http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...antroopies.jpg

AZ Deuce February 15, 2012 20:48

As of yet (02-15-12) there has been no proof of a 50.63 being used by any Rhodesians. However, that being said, they captured many FAL of all types from the terrs, so knowing I wanted a 50,63, and most of my FALs are of Rhodesian heritage, I bought a SA manufactured lower, possibly EX-R1, or more likely, one of the ones from the Rhodesian contract. I bought a non carrying handle cut Coonan Type III receiver with a custom serial number to match my lower.

I had my machinist mill the receiver to Type II specs, and now I have a Rhodie marked 50.63. Is it correct? I doubt it, but it's mine, and I like it, she turned out to be a good shooter too.

A Type III receiver is not really correct for a Bush War era rifle, but if that's all you got, and you want to honor the Rhodesian warriors, and fighting spirt, I say go for it.

EMSflyer February 15, 2012 22:30

Thanks guys !!

I may just do it.

It seems that my para FAL is missing something, the Rhodie paint
may just be the ticket.....

tx_oil February 16, 2012 05:40

Baby poop makes everything look better, doesn't it?

harleyrider February 16, 2012 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tx_oil (Post 3288916)
Baby poop makes everything look better, doesn't it?

Except babies. :shades:


HR

mongoose February 16, 2012 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleyrider (Post 3289041)
Except babies. :shades:


HR

and SLRs:eek:

Gun Dr. February 17, 2012 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoose (Post 3289206)
and SLRs:eek:

Well, most of the time. ;)
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...ry/falL1A1.jpg

Hebrew Battle Rifle February 18, 2012 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoose (Post 3289206)
and SLRs:eek:

Nothing can make an SLR look better. Leave it to the British to take an elegant rifle like an F A L and make it ugly.

nfafan February 19, 2012 02:21

South Africa and Rhodesian FALs.
 
Hello all,

Looking for pics, war stories, anything out there.

"Grew up" reading SOF in the 70's and the tales of the Sealous Scouts and ranchers, etc, of the struggles Rhodesia went thru back then. Even have the Be a Man Among Men poster somewhere as the "bonus" from my SOF subscription - we didn't have the 'net back then... Guess that's what hooked me on FALs forever.

Thanks in advance!

FUUN063 February 19, 2012 03:32

Somewhere I got a chunk of door skin cut from one of the Rhodesian Forces convoy trucks with the large emblem they use. I'll have to get some pics of it for here.

Leland

MistWolf February 19, 2012 06:32

Not saying folks shouldn't post pictures here, but the New Rhodesian site has some very cool stuff, even a thread dedicated to Rhodie Fals
http://www.newrhodesian.net/

jugrunner February 19, 2012 11:18

I would at least like a "sticky" stuck up top with pics and info ...

Slo cat will NOT like it tho ... :wink:

ETA: Thanks for the link MistWolf ...

def90 February 19, 2012 11:34

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233953

Not sure why it would be needed, there are already a ton of threads on Rhodesia. If you create a Rhodesia forum then do you make a sub forum for every other country and conflict that the FAL was ever involved in? If so then you end up with 100 subforums that all get 1 post a month in. Plus you would still have people asking Rhodie questions in the regular metric forum.

If you need info pertaining to the conflict in Rhodesia the NewRhodesian forum is the place to go.

Hebrew Battle Rifle February 19, 2012 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistWolf (Post 3290530)
Not saying folks shouldn't post pictures here, but the New Rhodesian site has some very cool stuff, even a thread dedicated to Rhodie Fals
http://www.newrhodesian.net/

Thank you for that link!

JKJ1911 February 20, 2012 00:57

You ever notice that ALL British service weapons are like this? Unless they are outsourced of course, but the enfield, sten, SLR, lanchester, the sterling is almost an attractive weapon, but not quite.

Hebrew Battle Rifle February 20, 2012 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKJ1911 (Post 3291142)
You ever notice that ALL British service weapons are like this? Unless they are outsourced of course, but the enfield, sten, SLR, lanchester, the sterling is almost an attractive weapon, but not quite.

Yes, I have. It is my theory that the Brits never adopted the FNFAL Para because even they could not make it ugly.

But, I have to give them credit for the Sten. It is purely utilitarian and that has an aesthetic quality all by itself.

nfafan February 20, 2012 07:45

Thanks all for that link!

LaConservationist February 20, 2012 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jugrunner (Post 3290637)
I would at least like a "sticky" stuck up top with pics and info ...

Slo cat will NOT like it tho ... :wink:

ETA: Thanks for the link MistWolf ...

JUG, I honestly believe OLE SLO CAT may be a Baby Poop Closet admirer!! :uhoh: :D

jugrunner February 20, 2012 19:17

actually there seems to be a LOT of interest in "Rhodies" as compared to, say, Cuba ... :confused:

I see "sticky's" that are not needed all the time ...

just sayin'


Quote:

Originally Posted by def90 (Post 3290654)
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233953

Not sure why it would be needed, there are already a ton of threads on Rhodesia. If you create a Rhodesia forum then do you make a sub forum for every other country and conflict that the FAL was ever involved in? If so then you end up with 100 subforums that all get 1 post a month in. Plus you would still have people asking Rhodie questions in the regular metric forum.

If you need info pertaining to the conflict in Rhodesia the NewRhodesian forum is the place to go.


jugrunner February 20, 2012 19:18

Seems like he did send me a PM awhile back wanting some poop paint ... :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaConservationist (Post 3291574)
JUG, I honestly believe OLE SLO CAT may be a Baby Poop Closet admirer!! :uhoh: :D


def90 February 20, 2012 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jugrunner (Post 3291585)
I see "sticky's" that are not needed all the time ...

just sayin'

Yeah, I hate wading through a page of sticky's just to get to the start of the threads.. I just don't see the need for it, if people would just use the search function many of the posts out there are just repeats of previous posts. I think if you scroll through the first 4 pages of the FN forum there are 3-4 posts asking about Rhodie paint..

jugrunner February 20, 2012 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by def90 (Post 3291596)
Yeah, I hate wading through a page of sticky's just to get to the start of the threads.. I just don't see the need for it, if people would just use the search function many of the posts out there are just repeats of previous posts. I think if you scroll through the first 4 pages of the FN forum there are 3-4 posts asking about Rhodie paint..


And this justifies a "sticky" on Rhodie ...

nwobhm has taken care of it, looks like ... :bow:

nfafan February 20, 2012 22:24

Well... visiting the "larger" AK forums, they get by with country-by-country subforums. It can be done.

Not that each would be a huge traffic magnet, but each would serve as a home-base for research and country-specific discussion posts - pic collections and such.

Maybe someone just had to have a good pic of a Colombian police FAL and - viola, the lightly visited South America subforum has a post with pics of Colombian FALs gleaned from some news feed.

Or someone wants to thread about Canada's FAL variants and goes to the North American FALs subforum.

Just sayin'.

def90 February 20, 2012 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfafan (Post 3291718)
Well... visiting the "larger" AK forums, they get by with country-by-country subforums. It can be done.

Not that each would be a huge traffic magnet, but each would serve as a home-base for research and country-specific discussion posts - pic collections and such.

Maybe someone just had to have a good pic of a Colombian police FAL and - viola, the lightly visited South America subforum has a post with pics of Colombian FALs gleaned from some news feed.

Or someone wants to thread about Canada's FAL variants and goes to the North American FALs subforum.

Just sayin'.

People can't even figure out posting in "inch" vs the "metric" section, or gunsmithing or ammo..

I know the AK forums you are talking about.. I don't necessarily agree that more subforums makes a forum better.

IanMor February 20, 2012 22:39

Your smallest wish is my greatest command. You now have a sticky for South African and Rhodesian weapons and topics related to that part of the world. :)

NHBandit February 21, 2012 08:08

Very cool idea. Here is my babyshit contribution. It's an old pic but here are a pair of Rhodie camo L1A1 handguards (given to Kevin Adams many years ago), 1 of the 25 or so ultra rare Rhodie para kits complete with Hiduminium lower that came into the country 10 or so years ago & some other random babypoop stuff. The wood L1A1 handguards were used as the model for the Dupont paint I had mixed up & used to sell on here. Don't ask... it's been gone for years, was a huge unprofitable pain in the ass & the formula is posted here for anyone who wants to have their own mixed up. The para kit was always a mystery because of the markings. The lower had a "Z" prefix serial number electro pencil engraved in it and nobody could ever give me a solid answer why. Not "ZA" just Z. That kit is long gone to a new home and I don't even remember who got it so it may always be a mystery. http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...camo_stuff.jpg

jugrunner February 21, 2012 10:59

See ... it's already started ... !!! ... lookin' good ... :wink:

NHBandit February 21, 2012 11:16

Because for some reason the paint code post got un-stickied here it is again for guys who want to use the much more durable Centari industrial grade automotive paint. Another plus to this paint is for those guys who want to use the proper colors but want a neat professional looking job this paint can be thinned (like any other automotive paint) & applied with an air brush. Guys who want a cheap alternative are welcome to search out gunplumbers Home Depot house paint recipe. Either one looks great. I can not speak to the durability of the Home Depot paint since I have never used it. These are the formulas for Dupont Centari Automotive & Industrial Paint. Just give these codes to your local Dupont Automotive or body shop supply store & it will even come with the proper amount of flattening agent mixed in. I found that the Brown color found on some rifles (mainly ZA marked variety) can be fairly accurately duplicated by mixing these 2 colors together.

Dark Forest Green code is DS166A.
Mustard yellow/green "babyshit" is YS432A.

nfafan February 21, 2012 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Dr. (Post 3289796)

Looks as if they outlined the cammo with black or dark "something"; kinda like the French and Belgians occasionally did with the outlined cammo patterns on their armor up into 1940.

Chief351 February 21, 2012 20:41

I just have to add that I never figured out that whole "chin strap under the lower lip" thing, either.

enbloc8 February 22, 2012 15:54

About the "sanitized" rifles that came to Rhodesia by way of South Africa...I know it's been established that they were FN contract rifles made for SA before Pretoria began its own production. What markings would have remained when they got to Rhodesia? Obviously the SA crest was drilled out of the mag well...what else was removed?

NHBandit February 22, 2012 16:29

"M" in "U" proofmarks removed or defaced. On mags as well as rifles.

jugrunner February 25, 2012 14:39

Pics:

R1 ...

http://i43.tinypic.com/5d2amb.jpg

coat of arms ...

http://i44.tinypic.com/2128ob5.jpg

blackmatt February 25, 2012 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by enbloc8 (Post 3292730)
About the "sanitized" rifles that came to Rhodesia by way of South Africa...I know it's been established that they were FN contract rifles made for SA before Pretoria began its own production. What markings would have remained when they got to Rhodesia? Obviously the SA crest was drilled out of the mag well...what else was removed?

Many of the wood stocks I have seen have a drill mark on the bottom near the tang screw leading me to think they were removing some proof mark on the stock as well.

RPBII February 25, 2012 16:16

Hey jugrunner, Thats the Dutch crest.

jugrunner February 25, 2012 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPBII (Post 3295016)
Hey jugrunner, Thats the Dutch crest.


Well ... may be ... I had it in my pic file as SA ...

I'll delete it ... Thanks ...

MistWolf February 27, 2012 01:15

Some photos I've collected

Photos of a Rhodie being sold overseas. If I recall, this one was for sale in Italy. It's a fully functional rifle modified to semi only
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie08.jpg
It's an R1 complete with South African markings. Perhaps it was made before the embargo. Or it found it's way across the border by other means. Why there are no paint remnants other than on the dust cover and forearm, I don't know. It's clearly engraved with an RA number. What I like about it is that it clearly has the SA or "Type 1.5" lightening cuts
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie01.jpg
It's possible it's numbers all match. The RA numbers (below) are the same. The "M. Jager" shown in the above photo was engraved to meet some requirement of the law after the rifle was surplussed off. I can't find my reference notes and I don't recall the details
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie03.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie04.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie05.jpg
You can see the ladder for the grenade sight has been broken off
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie06.jpg
This rifle has an unusual muzzle device. I think it goes with the one for sale by DSA
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie09.jpg

For it's elegance, the Austrian built StG58 is my favorite FAL. The SA built Rhodies, because of their history of war and supplied to Rhodesia in defiance of the arms embargo, I find to be the most fascinating

MistWolf February 27, 2012 01:29

To go with the photo of the R1 Jugrunner put up in Post #35 is one of a de-activated Rhodie, owned by an ex-pat in England who is a friend of Openearshooter. This rifle and R1 in post #35 are owned by the same fellow. This one below, was manufactured in South Africa and sanitized of it's markings. Serial numbers match on the upper & lower
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/RdesnR12.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/RdesnR13.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/RdesnR15.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/RdesnR19.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...20R1/rho11.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...ide/R1rho1.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...ide/R1rho2.jpg

MistWolf February 27, 2012 01:37

Here are some pictures I got from Openearshooter of his Rhodie. At the time it was an incomplete rifle. Maybe Open Ear will come along and give us more details. Yes, that's an authentic upper and a good example of the sanitized R1s sent to Rhodesia
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...terRhodieI.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...erRhodieII.jpg

As it stands, if I were to get a custom marked upper for my Rhodie, I'm torn between using the R1 markings or having it "sanitized"

MistWolf February 27, 2012 01:48

More pictures of the R1 Jug put up in Post#35
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...20R1/SAR11.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...20side/R13.jpg
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...20side/R14.jpg

MistWolf February 27, 2012 01:58

Photos of one of the few South African R1s brought into the US. Photos supplied by yovinny
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1151861246
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1151861281
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1151957731
This example has the crest and it appears that the upper has Type I lightening cuts. Maybe yovinnie will come by and grace us with further photos and details

def90 February 27, 2012 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistWolf (Post 3296109)
This rifle has an unusual muzzle device. I think it goes with the one for sale by DSA
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...R1Rhodie09.jpg


The Rhodie device that DSA sells works on a standard Belgian combo device. I have a barrel like the one above that has a combo device that has been cut down and rethreaded with a much larger thread pattern than a standard muzzle device. If anyone has any info on what it was used for I would love to know..

My barrel: (G1 by the way)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...0/P5070001.JPG

You can see by the holes the relation to a normal Belgian device as well as how the back end is cut off by the location of the wrench cutout..
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5...0/P5070002.JPG

BC February 27, 2012 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLR-5000 (Post 1758647)
My personal favorite in the middle, The L1A1 F1, the flash hider was designed by a British engineer who was told on a visit to Lithgow that who ever designed that flash hider should have it shoved up his arse, that was the last time he ever went there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...cture34271.jpg

Don't forget that FN at Lithgow Museum. SLR-5000's picture from Dec 2006.

MistWolf February 28, 2012 02:41

Hey BC, this thread is about South African and Rhodesian FALs. The rifles in the photos you linked to are Aussie

BC February 28, 2012 03:03

The top rifle is R1 made by FN.

MistWolf February 28, 2012 04:33

Interesting. Is the sign underneath it wrong then?

y0rlik February 28, 2012 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistWolf (Post 3296822)
Interesting. Is the sign underneath it wrong then?

It looks like the signs go with the rifles below them. If you look carefully, the sign above the top rifle has "[illegible] by Fabrique Nationale in Belgium".

nfafan February 28, 2012 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC (Post 3296973)
Ignore the signs. That's FAL ID 101, my friend - metric pattern and commonwealth pattern.

Is there a FAQ on ID'ing an SA FAL, Rhodie FAL?


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