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-   -   kid fires cop's holstered gun in school activity (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423951)

justashooter February 09, 2018 13:25

kid fires cop's holstered gun in school activity
 
twenty bux says it was a glock, or similar "no-safety" striker fired gun. no excuse for a round in the pipe and cocked gun, especially an inherently dangerous gun like a glock, in a school environment. policy needs to change before some kid gets killed because of glocks:

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/0...holstered-gun/

gunplumber February 09, 2018 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4538629)
twenty bux says it was a glock, or similar "no-safety" striker fired gun. no excuse for a round in the pipe and cocked gun, especially an inherently dangerous gun like a glock, in a school environment. policy needs to change before some kid gets killed because of glocks: [/URL]

Your level of stupid is astounding.

Glocks are not "cocked". The striker functions like a bow and arrow. They are not in the drawn position while at rest.

The Glock has THREE passive safeties (as compared to revolvers, which have 1 or 2 depending on model).

To fire a Glock, you must pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger is supposed to fire a gun (that's why it's called a "trigger").

Jaxxas February 09, 2018 15:05

One of the many reasons I have a hard time wrapping my head around open carry.

Aren't all firearms "inherently" dangerous?

YMMV

Tactical Baron February 09, 2018 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4538629)
twenty bux says it was a glock, or similar "no-safety" striker fired gun. no excuse for a round in the pipe and cocked gun, especially an inherently dangerous gun like a glock, in a school environment. policy needs to change before some kid gets killed because of glocks:

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/0...holstered-gun/

:lolsign:

I think it's time we ban small children, they are too dangerous!

There's nothing wrong with open carry, but it does require the individual to have greater situational awareness. For this, I chalk it up to an accident that thankfully just made some people shit their pants and nothing else.

Roadmarker February 09, 2018 15:17

I prefer a manual safety. A lot of people don't. Then again, I'm not in law enforcement and I've taken the calculated risk of either having a manual safety or not carrying with a round in the chamber with a striker fired pistol.
If I'm going into a firefight, I'm loading up the chamber and/or taking the safety off.
I do believe a manual safety prevents "accidental" discharges.
I also believe carrying without a round in the chamber puts you at a disadvantage.

justashooter February 09, 2018 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4538684)
Your level of stupid is astounding.

To fire a Glock, you just pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger is supposed to fire a gun (that's why it's called a "trigger").

your level of assholishness is astounding, and for a "gunsmith" you don't know sheet about how guns work: watch the video, stupid

[IMG]<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/c1VD1D1hLsQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/IMG]

"In a pure striker fired system such as Glock's there is no external hammer and no means to de-cock. Most of the Glocks that I have seen are single action meaning that the gun is cocked by racking the slide and the only way to de-cock is to pull the trigger.Feb 17, 2012"

"...passive safety system omits the manipulation of traditional on-off levers, hammers, or other external safeties as found in many other handgun designs. The ability to fire immediately, without worrying about an external safety, is one feature Glock has stressed as an advantage when selling its guns, especially to police departments."

this has resulted in a pre-cocked striker condition, and has also removed a point of decision for people who wind up shooting people, often unintentioanlly, because there is no thought or action to disengage a safety required, just a reflexive response that is not necessarily conscious. hence the dramatic increase in police shootings since the adoption of glocks.

justashooter February 09, 2018 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadmarker (Post 4538690)
I prefer a manual safety. A lot of people don't. Then again, I'm not in law enforcement and I've taken the calculated risk of either having a manual safety or not carrying with a round in the chamber with a striker fired pistol.
If I'm going into a firefight, I'm loading up the chamber and/or taking the safety off.
I do believe a manual safety prevents "accidental" discharges.
I also believe carrying without a round in the chamber puts you at a disadvantage.

in my opinion a sig or beretta style hammer drop safety combination control is the best answer. it allows you to drop hammer on loaded chamber and disengage the trigger function in a way that you cannot with a glock. if that cop had been carrying a sig and used it properly the "shot heard round the school", would not have been fired. with such drill firing a gun is still one handed. it just requires rotation of the disconnector before pulling trigger, which disconnector can be had in ambidextrous option.

Tak February 09, 2018 18:39

The real question is WTF is a kid doing sticking his finger down into the holster of a cop's pistol?

Was there something mentally wrong with the kid?

Or just an utter lack of respect for Police and authority of elders?

Aeroscout February 09, 2018 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4538696)
your level of assholishness is astounding, and for a "gunsmith" you don't know sheet about how guns work: watch the video, stupid

[IMG]<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/c1VD1D1hLsQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/IMG]

"In a pure striker fired system such as Glock's there is no external hammer and no means to de-cock. Most of the Glocks that I have seen are single action meaning that the gun is cocked by racking the slide and the only way to de-cock is to pull the trigger.Feb 17, 2012"

"...passive safety system omits the manipulation of traditional on-off levers, hammers, or other external safeties as found in many other handgun designs. The ability to fire immediately, without worrying about an external safety, is one feature Glock has stressed as an advantage when selling its guns, especially to police departments."

this has resulted in a pre-cocked striker condition, and has also removed a point of decision for people who wind up shooting people, often unintentioanlly, because there is no thought or action to disengage a safety required, just a reflexive response that is not necessarily conscious. hence the dramatic increase in police shootings since the adoption of glocks.

Haven't seen the cudgel in awhile........

:popcorn:

Right Side Up February 09, 2018 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak (Post 4538760)
The real question is WTF is a kid doing sticking his finger down into the holster of a cop's pistol?

Was there something mentally wrong with the kid?

Or just an utter lack of respect for Police and authority of elders?

That's what little boys do. Like flies to honey.

badzero February 09, 2018 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak (Post 4538760)
The real question is WTF is a kid doing sticking his finger down into the holster of a cop's pistol?

Was there something mentally wrong with the kid?

Or just an utter lack of respect for Police and authority of elders?

I think the fact that kids eating tide pods is in the news so much lately kind of answers your question.

D P Six February 09, 2018 19:58

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5055/...a7fd36b895.jpg


Glock perfection leg holster. :uhoh:

gunplumber February 10, 2018 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4538696)
your level of assholishness is astounding, and for a "gunsmith" you don't know sheet about how guns work: watch the video, stupid

Actually, the video misses the disengagement of the firing pin block, but otherwise confirms that I am 100% correct (as usual), and you have no clue what you're babbling about. The partial "pre cock" for lack of a better description, is not "cocked". Look at the firing pin you moron! It does not come back until the trigger is pulled. What part of that concept leads you to believe the striker is like a cocked cross-bow, just waiting to accidentally release?

The commentary is completely wrong on every count, including it's attempt at describing the mechanism. I'm just glad to know that "most" of the Glocks the writer has examined are single action (none are), because I'd love to see the ones he claims are not.

I understand that you are too stupid, lazy, and incompetent to handle a firearm that is discharged by pulling the trigger. I also understand that you have a rabid hatred for that which is above your comprehension. But you should not assume that others are as stupid, lazy and incompetent as yourself. Some of us can handle the concept of "pull trigger, gun go bang" and find the Glock, with it's three passive safeties, to be a perfect fit.

By the way, the steps of "load magazine, insert magazine, and chamber first round" was assumed to have been completed when I noted that pulling the trigger will fire the gun. I do not believe the Glock will load itself.

gunplumber February 10, 2018 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by D P Six (Post 4538822)
Glock perfection leg holster. :uhoh:

That is why you should not carry 10 year old worn-out holsters.

garandguy10 February 10, 2018 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by D P Six (Post 4538822)


I fixed it for you.....

garandguy10 February 10, 2018 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4539030)
That is why you should not carry 10 year old worn-out holsters.


That is why you should not carry a Glock.

D P Six February 10, 2018 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by garandguy10 (Post 4539127)
That is why you should not carry a Glock.

I confess to having never been afflicted with Glock fever. Never understood how a protrusion in the center of a 5-6lb trigger is considered a safety.

Aeroscout February 10, 2018 16:48

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vb5quj6ZhJM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That being said.....

Guns should never be left out where booger eaters can get their grubby little mitts on them to begin with.

If the cop in question had a proper retention holster (and kept it sheathed) there would have never been an issue.

SAFN49 February 10, 2018 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4539023)
Actually, the video misses the disengagement of the firing pin block, but otherwise confirms that I am 100% correct (as usual).

You are both wrong and going off half cocked as usual. The Glock and most other striker fired weapons are always at least half cocked.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ch7si_VQsGA" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

J. Armstrong February 10, 2018 21:03

Just another reason why I prefer a 1911 or BHP with a manual safety. YMMV.

RG Coburn February 10, 2018 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak (Post 4538760)
The real question is WTF is a kid doing sticking his finger down into the holster of a cop's pistol?

Was there something mentally wrong with the kid?

Or just an utter lack of respect for Police and authority of elders?

...in a world where boys are never taught by their fathers how to handle firearms....

raubvogel February 10, 2018 22:22

Today's story has been supported by a grant from the "Situational awareness" corporation.... and viewers like you.

Right Side Up February 11, 2018 00:48

There's nothing wrong with a Glock. It shoots when you pull the trigger, just like all my revolvers do. The responsibility for this lies squarely on the officer. The gun should have been in a safer holster.

raubvogel February 11, 2018 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Right Side Up (Post 4539380)
There's nothing wrong with a Glock. It shoots when you pull the trigger, just like all my revolvers do. The responsibility for this lies squarely on the officer. The gun should have been in a safer holster.

Or he could have removed magazine, racked the slide (upper receiver according to the AR crowd) to remove the round in the chamber, put the magazine back and the pistol in its holster, and then walk to the school.

Of course then a kid could have racked the slide while in the holster without him knowing and then pressed the trigger. :facepalm:

base704 February 11, 2018 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Right Side Up (Post 4539380)
There's nothing wrong with a Glock. It shoots when you pull the trigger, just like all my revolvers do. The responsibility for this lies squarely on the officer. The gun should have been in a safer holster.

^
This...
I've got more than one Glock, and I've never had one go "bang" unless I wanted it to...:wink:
If you fcukers can't handle a loaded gun, don't carry one.:facepalm:

gunplumber February 11, 2018 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAFN49 (Post 4539274)
You are both wrong and going off half cocked as usual. The Glock and most other striker fired weapons are always at least half cocked.

Half-cock does not apply to a gun without a hammer. It is a poor description for what a Glock striker entails. The half-cock position functions as catch for a hammer failure. Nothing to do with a minimal pre-load on a striker. A half-cock failure can fire the gun. A release of the preloaded striker on a glock, cannot fire the gun.

ByronF February 11, 2018 10:25

Wish there had been more detail such as holster model. As it is, just a worthless "guns are scary" article. Safariland holster would have prevented this. Even my cheapo Safariland with just the ALS thumb lever.

So far as accidental shootings by twitchy frightened fingers, Id rather have a Glock pointed at me than a 1911. If someone lost their bowels so hard that they ND a Glock, they they probably switched off the 1911 safety too. In which case their finger is on a very fine light crisp trigger. At least with the Glock I'd get hit low and to the left (my right) instead of center mass.

SAFN49 February 11, 2018 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4539442)
Half-cock does not apply to a gun without a hammer. It is a poor description for what a Glock striker entails. The half-cock position functions as catch for a hammer failure. Nothing to do with a minimal pre-load on a striker. A half-cock failure can fire the gun. A release of the preloaded striker on a glock, cannot fire the gun.

:facepalm: At what distance is a pre-loaded striker considered half cocked?
Distance or tension?

Please you fuktard know what hell you are talking about when addressing the KE required to set off primers. Oh, wait, I forgot you were the great T Mark (sounds like a rapper) who is never wrong.

Modern hunting-style bolt actions utilize higher-speed strikers and are expected consistently to deliver about 100 inch-ounces to the primers used in current sporting ammunition with a lock time of about 3 milliseconds. Modern commercial large-rifle primers probably should all fire with a single strike of at least 75 inch-ounces of impact energy even under severely cold conditions, but some might also fire with as little as 12 inch-ounces of impact in more ideal conditions since sporting ammunition is not required to withstand the rigors of rough military handling. Application of more than 150 inch-ounces of KE to any rifle primer would probably be excessive and counterproductive to best accuracy. Pistol primers are much more sensitive and are designed to operate properly at significantly lower levels of striking energy. Interestingly, according to M. L. McPherson, laboratory technicians firing “standard receivers” fitted to pressure barrels have noted that modern primers do produce slightly more chemical energy (with corresponding measured increases in chamber pressure and muzzle velocity) when they are struck with slightly more than the “standard” amount of KE.

gunplumber February 12, 2018 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAFN49 (Post 4539762)
:facepalm: At what distance is a pre-loaded striker considered half cocked?
Distance or tension? Please you fuktard know what hell you are talking about when addressing the KE required to set off primers.

Please you fuktard know what hell you are talking about when addressing the piece of steel blocking the firing pin, that does not move unless the trigger is pulled.

That would be like the piece of steel blocking the hammer on a Sig (P series) or a Beretta (92 series), to allow them to decock without firing? Or is a physical barrier in front of the firing safe on the Beretta and Sig, but dangerous on the Glock? You're an idiot - go drown yourself in a toilette.

justashooter February 12, 2018 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by D P Six (Post 4539195)
I confess to having never been afflicted with Glock fever. Never understood how a protrusion in the center of a 5-6lb trigger is considered a safety.

it is not a "safety". it was designed as a reach-around on the language of GCA '68 which requires imported pistols to have a "safety".

you also note that the military trials the glock was designed for selected the M-9, which actually has a safety.

just admit that you are wrong, buttplumber, and move on. we all know that your fragile short dick ego won't allow you to admit it, so it's alway fun to watch you squirm. the spring is pre-tensioned, so the gun is "cocked", by any reasonable understanding, and cannot be "de-cocked" by any means other than pulling the trigger.

gunplumber February 12, 2018 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4539847)
you also note that the military trials the glock was designed for selected the M-9, which actually has a safety.

All guns failed the JSSAP '79-80 (Airforce) and 1981-82 (Army) testing. Glock wasn't even in production at the time. It was patented in 81 and first models entered Austrian trials in early 1982. So no, it was not designed for the US trials.

Oh, and the Airforce was using the SW 15 revolver, which curiously had not external safety.

US Trials restarted in 84 -only Beretta and Sig met the technical specifications to continue to cost evaluation. SW was unfairly dropped from the test for failing to meet mandatory firing pin energy of 24 inch ounces. Also dropped were the SW, Steyr, HK, BDA, Colt, and Walther. Subsequent review by the GAO showed that the SW did meet the requirement in Newtons, and that "rounding off" to 24 inch ounces made it fail by .0001". And that the standard itself was probably higher than the requirement for igniting less sensitive European primers.

The Glock was designed for the Austrian trails and beat out the Steyr GB, Beretta, Walther, Sig, etc. (What? no external safety? )

Please, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, so just STFU.

justashooter February 12, 2018 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4539872)
All guns failed the JSSAP '79-80 (Airforce) and 1981-82 (Army) testing. Glock wasn't even in production at the time. It was patented in 81 and first models entered Austrian trials in early 1982. So no, it was not designed for the US trials.

Oh, and the Airforce was using the SW 15 revolver, which curiously had not external safety.

it was remarked at the time by American Rifleman, Shooting Times, and Gun Digest that glock failed to make the trials date for production reaons, but that the designer, who had no experience in gun design, was specifically hired for the purpose of and tasked with the intention of a submission in the US trials, which was expected to be big money, and was intended to make a name for a company that had never produced even a single gun, for any kind of sale. it's not just a calendar issue, butt-master.

do the math, the austrian military contract resulted in what, 35 pistols? or was it 45?

your inability to see beyond the surface in matters such as this explains why your business has been such a failure, why you have never grown beyond a one-man shop, and a one-man income, in what is it, 20 years of practice? i guess that less than clever, but marginally functional people like yourself, just can't be taught anything abstract. what a shame.

in 1982 the air force was using a revolver as a survival PDW and military police tool, not a combat weapon. AF people are never supposed to use a personal weapon unless they are MP.the lack of a safety was a concern then, even in the AF, in which sidearms were rarely carried.

so anyway, how are your welding school classes going? did you learn yet how to weld a bren back together straight??

hagar February 12, 2018 13:35

Me thinks this story is a bunch of lies and hogwash. I think kid tried to take holstered gun, struggle took place, and gun discharged.

justashooter February 12, 2018 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagar (Post 4539982)
Me thinks this story is a bunch of lies and hogwash. I think kid tried to take holstered gun, struggle took place, and gun discharged.

dangerous 8 year olds out there, threatening kops lives everyday, right?

gunplumber February 12, 2018 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4539960)
it's not just a calendar issue, butt-master . . .. do the math,

I did. And determined that it would be difficult for a gun to compete in a trial that took place before the gun was designed. I realize you re-norm the concept of stupid, but I hoped even a dimwit like you could count on your fingers.

Quote:

The austrian military contract resulted in what, 35 pistols? or was it 45?
Umm - The G17 is the official handgun of the Austrian Army (P-80) with the G26 also issued. Initial order I believe was for 25,000 pistols. Also adopted by Sweden (P-88) and Norway (P-80), Israel, Saudi Arabia, Denmark, and many other countries. Will you be pontificating more on that which you are completely ignorant? Your stupidity is as amusing as it is astounding.

Quote:

your inability to see beyond the surface in matters such as this explains why your business has been such a failure, why you have never grown beyond a one-man shop, and a one-man income, in what is it, 20 years of practice? i guess that less than clever, but marginally functional people like yourself, just can't be taught anything abstract. what a shame.
Rather non-seqiutor. My proving that you are 100% wrong, and that the Glock did not compete in a US handgun trial that predated the Glock's existence, has no relationship to me running a successful small business for over 25 years with tens of thousands of satisfied customers across the country.

justashooter February 12, 2018 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4540015)


Umm - The G17 is the official handgun of the Austrian Army (P-80) with the G26 also issued. Initial order I believe was for 25,000 pistols. Also adopted by Sweden (P-88) and Norway (P-80), Israel, Saudi Arabia, Denmark, and many other countries.



Glock did not compete in a US handgun trial that predated the Glock's

so in other words, after loosing out on the big kahuna, glock got some table scraps. the truth remains that the designer was asked to provide an entrant into the big money US trials that would have resulted in perhaps half a million sales, just for starters. so, in other words, they lost out on 10X what they eventually got from all other consumers in that military market.

like i said, they couldn't pull it off, because they started from scratch, with no experience and no engineering expertise, and no supporting industry relationships. it is amazing that they were in production with a new technology in less than 2 years, but they still missed the boat, and still failed ot acheive the design criteria, which required a de-cocker/safety dual function control.

gunplumber February 12, 2018 15:17

I believe Glock hit 5 million produced in 2007 and had 1 million guns back-ordered in Feb 2013. With ramping up production, they supposedly had 10 million produced around 2014. Not bad for such a piece-of-shit. Oh, it has its own NATO stock number - because it surpassed all NATO standards.

you also note that the military trials the glock was designed for selected the M-9, which actually has a safety.
In late 1983, the US DOD inquired about the Glock and received 4 samples for unofficial evaluation (Kasler). Note, 1983 came after 1982. Glock declined to participate in the XM9 trials. Note - DECLINED TO PARTICIPATE means that Glock wasn't there. Not being there, they did not compete against the Beretta, and did not provide the 35(?) guns for the competition.

Curiously, on the subject of the "safety", one of the reasons that the British Army began replacing the P35 with the G17gen4 (25,000 initial order) is due to concerns about the external safety on the Hi-Power. (1-11-2013, The Register, UK)

tdb59 February 12, 2018 15:28

It is rather entertaining to see a responsibility issue verbally deform into an equipment issue.

Blaming an inanimate object for potential harm is usually reserved for the realm of Leftists.



:uhoh:

................

gunplumber February 12, 2018 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4540018)
so in other words, after loosing out on the big kahuna, glock got some table scraps.

Ok, this is becoming ridiculous, even for a moron like you. One cannot "loose" a competition that began before the gun was in production.

Quote:

and still failed to acheive the design criteria, which required a de-cocker/safety dual function control.
The criteria established in a Mission Essential Needs Statement has nothing to do with the merits of a product that does not fit that criteria.

justashooter February 12, 2018 15:32

what are you doing mark, sitting by your laptop waiting for me to post? at least let my keys cool before making me mock you again.

like i said, the designer was hired to create a gun for the US trials, and failed to do so in a timely manner. the fix was already in by 1984, with beretta agreeing to produce contract guns in a plant within USA. it's in accokeek, md, about an 2 hours south of me.

the fact that retarded police admins and the occasional cheap stupid bastard spend so much money on poorly designed crap is irrelevant to history. the fact remains, also that glocks are the AK-47 of handguns: cheap to make without skilled labor, fast to train barefooted primitives to use, and reasonably reliable in function. this does not make them a good gun, or a safe and controllable gun. they just do not have the controls that any modern double-action autoloader should have. they do not have a de-cocker safety.

gunplumber February 12, 2018 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by justashooter (Post 4540036)
what are you doing mark, sitting by your laptop waiting for me to post? at least let my keys cool before making me mock you again.

Actually, I'm listening to some BB King, and entering 2017 invoices into a spreadsheet for taxes. I shipped 125 FALs in 2017. Not bad for a small, one-man custom shop, run by "such a failure".

Quote:

they just do not have the controls that any modern double-action autoloader should have. they do not have a de-cocker safety.
Nope. It doesn't. And if you can't handle the concept of "pull trigger, gun goes bang" (with three passive safeties), then you should not carry a Glock (or any gun, for that matter). There are some 10 million+ other buyers who have a different idea of a what a gun "should" have, and chose the Glock. So I doubt Glock is overly concerned with your mental limitations.

bubbagump February 12, 2018 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4538684)
..
Glocks are not "cocked". The striker functions like a bow and arrow. They are not in the drawn position while at rest.

The Glock has THREE passive safeties (as compared to revolvers, which have 1 or 2 depending on model).

To fire a Glock, you must pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger is supposed to fire a gun (that's why it's called a "trigger").

This. Basically Glocks have a firing mechanism like a DA revolver except that they have no SA capability. The firing system is at all times de-energized and incapable of firing a round except when the trigger is in the process of moving to the rear. My question would be wtf is a cop doing running around in a school environment, or for that matter anywhere else wearing a holster that exposes the trigger?

RG Coburn February 12, 2018 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagar (Post 4539982)
Me thinks this story is a bunch of lies and hogwash. I think kid tried to take holstered gun, struggle took place, and gun discharged.

Yeah,but you'd think that maybe before going into a freakin' elementary school,maybe the cop should at least clear the pipe of a live round?
We can't even concealed carry in a school. Have to leave it locked in the vehicle or something.
It's not like he was going into a hot situation with a active shooter or something.

bubbagump February 12, 2018 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdb59 (Post 4540033)
It is rather entertaining to see a responsibility issue verbally deform into an equipment issue.

Blaming an inanimate object for potential harm is usually reserved for the realm of Leftists.



:uhoh:

................

Indeed. Great point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagar (Post 4539982)
Me thinks this story is a bunch of lies and hogwash. I think kid tried to take holstered gun, struggle took place, and gun discharged.

Yep, my take too. This story ain't quite passing the sniff test.

ByronF February 12, 2018 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG Coburn (Post 4540081)
Yeah,but you'd think that maybe before going into a freakin' elementary school,maybe the cop should at least clear the pipe.

I clear the pipe for no man, woman, or chillen.

SAFN49 February 12, 2018 18:38

Since striker fired pistols are always about half cocked, striker preloaded, with all the different trigger bars, and firing pin safety stop springs and mods to lighten trigger pulls, especially with mix and match parts, I wouldn't put too much trust in them not going off if dropped.

http://i.imgur.com/Vac2ZDM.jpg

Especially when there are warnings on the firing pin safety springs. "Warning: Reduced Power spring is for competition use only - not for duty use."

gunplumber February 12, 2018 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAFN49 (Post 4540122)
I wouldn't put too much trust in them not going off if dropped.

Since we are talking about the Glock, and not any random striker fired pistol, I am not sure what you are including in "them." An FN /Browning 1905? 1910?

A factory Glock in good condition, I have 100% confidence that it will never go off when dropped. That's because I know what I'm talking about, and I'm not a raving idiot like you with zero understanding of the topic.

It is possible for a number of other automatics and revolvers to fire without pulling the trigger. Highly unlikely, but physically possible. Same with rifles using a trigger block instead of a hammer block.

Some require an unrealistic amount of force (HK wanted higher and higher drop tests, believing the FAL would reach the point of sear bounce before the G3) others that you break enough parts and position them "just so". But in this case, the officer's gun fired because someone or something pulled the trigger. Which is what is supposed to happen when the trigger is pulled.

SAFN49 February 12, 2018 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4540161)
Since we are talking about the Glock, and not any random striker fired pistol, I am not sure what you are including in "them." An FN /Browning 1905? 1910?

A factory Glock in good condition, I have 100% confidence that it will never go off when dropped. That's because I know what I'm talking about, and I'm not a raving idiot like you with zero understanding of the topic.

It is possible for a number of other automatics and revolvers to fire without pulling the trigger. Highly unlikely, but physically possible. Same with rifles using a trigger block instead of a hammer block.

Some require an unrealistic amount of force (HK wanted higher and higher drop tests, believing the FAL would reach the point of sear bounce before the G3) others that you break enough parts and position them "just so". But in this case, the officer's gun fired because someone or something pulled the trigger. Which is what is supposed to happen when the trigger is pulled.

I know you trust all factory mechanical safeties as you just stated. The issues with mechanical firing pins blocks are well know. It's mechanical and will fail. We are not just talking about Glocks, but rather all striker fired pistols that have a "half cock" on the striker. The other one that comes to mind is the S&W M&P. We already know the the Sig passed all drop tests but still went off out side of the prescribed drop. Start combining that with wear, lack of cleaning/maintenance, and possible after market parts, NO THANKS. I'll carry a properly maintained Glock with all factory parts. For you to say it will never happen or can't happen just shows how ignorant you truly are.

I still have a Old model Ruger Blackhawk that hasn't been back for the recall............... Nor have any of my Remington striker fired rifles. Dumbass. The key is to never rely on mechanical safeties, but you still insist that a firing pin block is infallible. :facepalm:

yellowhand February 12, 2018 20:58

I carried a 1911 and also a BHP while working, and would loved to have an G19 back then.
Both the 1911 and BHP were subject to caked mud/other wet crap blocking the hammer and safety from working at all, everything on both pistols seemed to rust up near overnight, regardless of how much oil we sloshed onto them.
The magazines on the 1911 were subject to rusting to the frame and being unable to remove them without a pry bar.
The 1911 and BHP mags would fill with water, and everything rusted up.
We drilled holes in the magazines, but then they clogged and rusted up nearly overnight.

From a "working" standpoint, light weight, plastic everywhere it can be placed, no safeties at all, just draw, point, and pull the trigger is a perfect working mans pistol.

A round in the chamber, ready to go, at all times!
When ya need your pistol, you really need your pistol to fire that 1st round every single time with zero added actions except for pulling the trigger.

Spend 30 minutes cleaning your pistol every night, or get 30 minutes extra sleep???

I would have loved having a Glock 19 back then.:wink:

RG Coburn February 12, 2018 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByronF (Post 4540098)
I clear the pipe for no man, woman, or chillen.

You clean it loaded??In the house?
I treat all firearms like they're loaded,with caution. We don't allow loaded firearms into the deer camp cabin.


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