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paolo.orange January 28, 2012 13:38

So Billabong will go to the National Match...
 
Here I am starting the diary of my Austalian Fal (Billabong) that will compete this year at our Italian Military Rifle Championship at 300 meters.
FalFiles forum has been such a good source of information for me and I thought it would be time for me to share what I'm doing with you.
Like everybody, I do not have a lot of time , but I'll try to post all my modifications, reloads, tricks, mistakes, successes and losses on a regular basis .

This is Billabong and me.
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psnyqjvuix.jpg

Paolo.Orange
Milano -Italy

Ramone January 28, 2012 13:54

Great looking rifle! Is that an Aussie version?

SteelonSteel January 28, 2012 14:09

I'd be smiling if I had a perfect Australian SLR like that too!

Good luck on the match and do post how you made out when you get the chance!

ciao!

L Haney January 28, 2012 14:10

This is great! We'll enjoy the story as it goes along. Thanks!

Lowell

19&41 January 28, 2012 14:58

Nice rifle! Buona fortuna!

paolo.orange January 28, 2012 16:17

Uh wow, I didn't expect such a warm welcome! :bow:

OK then, the mission is shooting in the our Championship, group 3 that means semiautos used by any army of the world from 1955 to 1970. Competitors will be Garands, M14,STGW 75, STG 58, FN Safn....in original configuration.
Trigger job and an improved front sight are allowed.
We shoot 23 rounds (3 spotters) individually scored at 300m. The position is prone with bipod or sand bag. Sling in not allowed.
The target has the aiming black 60 cm in diameter, the 10 ring is 10 cm.

Last year at the end of the season Billabong scored 5th, but I had no time to develop its full potential (I won group 5 with an AR :cool:). but this year I'll try my best.

Next time I'll tell you about the iron sights and how I plan to make them work better.

:sleep:

one hand clapping January 28, 2012 16:38

No offense ,but thats an SLR good sir.

Paolo O, Very nice rifle. My "go to" is a 63' SLR with origional wood,and a eotec 552 sight.

good luck in your competition, and we look forward to hearing what you do to "improve the irons", as I have a competition this spring and can use all the help I can get.

Namaste'
OHC

enbloc8 January 28, 2012 20:01

Do they supply the ammo, or do the contestants bring their own?

BEAUTIFUL SLR there! Did you refinish the wood?

BC January 28, 2012 20:22

Billabong sounds like a good name for the Aussie. It's catchy.

It just gave me this idea. I've got a Century L1A1. I'll call it Badabing.

hagar January 29, 2012 09:10

Yes, we will much appreciate info on the loads you developed, what works, what does not, and all other little tricks to improve rifle accuracy.

paolo.orange January 30, 2012 09:12

“The front sight is your best friend” – Anonymous.
This is the greatest truth that every shooter of iron sight should always keep in mind. A front sight that fits your eye, delivers the proper sight picture and is mechanically fine tuned for your rifle is a huge asset.

Just two facts learned (the hard way) during last years' competitions :

1) The FS of the FAL is the premier device to accurately control the elevation. Yes, sure, the notches at the rear sight are supposed to do that job but definitely they are not the best tool if you only want to adjust your point of impact from the 8 ring to the X. Compensating with a different hold never works for me. I need a reliable mechanical adjustment and keep my sight picture consistent.

2) Having said that, you don't want any adjustment in elevation to interfere with windage. And this is VERY much the case with my FAL.

The standard front sight of my Aussie is basically a blade and this is its first limitation: you can turn it only by 180° increments and this is way too much. Considering a sight length of about 55 cm and a FS pitch of 40 TPI, every half turn of the FS is a shift of 17 cm @ 300 meter. Not so good to address problem #1.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2fiye6pn.jpg

Problem #2 happens because the FS is made to be interchangeable (by means of extra play) and it never fits the front sight base tightly. This means that while you are adjusting for elevation it will tilt left or right, jeopardizing windage. Also, the more the FS protrudes out of its base the more this cross effect becomes evident.

So the best investment is building a dedicated FS. I made mine threading the stem of a steel screw. I kept the slot of the die as open as I could so that the external diameter of the thread is much bigger then normal. This is not really a good workshop practice but it will greatly reduce the FS tilt when installed.

Then I machined a cylindrical post so that I can fine tune it. I find that increments of 1/8 of turn (about ½ MOA) work pretty well for me. The little FAL tool is very handy here.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0pe4xfxn.jpg

If your eye likes the squared post better then go for that if you can tolerate a little bit of less freedom in elevation adjustment (1 MOA).

“Flanged” front sights are less prone to problems like the above and can be fine tuned by “clicks”. Nevertheless always check they fit the front sight base very tightly. If needed ask a friend with a lathe to machine a custom sight for you, with oversized thread. It’s very easy.

Sorry for my English, it really sucks.

SteelonSteel January 30, 2012 09:21

How about a custom front sight that instead of a long flat with 2 positions, make a square front sight like the AR15? That will double your adjustments. I would also add the extra grooves for the front sight set screw.

Not sure if you match rules allow that but that's my first thought to gain finer adjustment on the front sight.

You're English may not be the same as a native speaker but you're getting along just fine. Don't worry about it. PS. You're doing much much better than I would be if I attempted more Italian. (anything beyond food words and I'd be lost :wink:)

paolo.orange January 30, 2012 13:07

+1 for Steel.
As I said before you might need to trade a little bit of adjustment resolution (1 MOA vs. 1/2 MOA) for a much sharper square post. Funny enough I prefer a square post on my AR but the round post on the FAL.
Let your eye and the X count decide what works better.

I forgot an important thing.
After zeroing the sight at match distance (of course take note of its original position) remove it and drop a small spring of proper length into the hole.
You want that spring to push the sight upward when back at the original zeroed position. This spring will eliminate the axial play of the thread making the adjustment much more consistent.
This is the front sight dent spring of an AR. Costs nothing and works well.
http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...917/917536.jpg

Ramone January 30, 2012 13:19

Thats a great idea you have there!

enbloc8 January 30, 2012 14:27

+1 for the custom front sight idea, also for the tensioning spring. And kudos for the "UP" notation on the front sight base...under pressure, it's easy to get confused or forget what one's doing. (How much ammo did I waste last summer before I realized I was moving the rear sight the wrong way...:rolleyes:)

What kind of accuracy have you been able to get out of ol' Billabong so far?

L Haney January 30, 2012 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolo.orange (Post 3278124)
Sorry for my English, it really sucks.

No, it doesn't. All of that was very easily readable.

You should hear my Spanish. Ugh.

paolo.orange January 30, 2012 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by enbloc8 (Post 3277359)
Do they supply the ammo, or do the contestants bring their own?

BEAUTIFUL SLR there! Did you refinish the wood?

No, ammo is free. We all reload.
Yes a lot of cleaning and a lot of linseed oil and time, time and time again :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by enbloc8 (Post 3278247)
And kudos for the "UP" notation on the front sight base...under pressure, it's easy to get confused or forget what one's doing.

So glad I'm not alone!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by enbloc8 (Post 3278247)
What kind of accuracy have you been able to get out of ol' Billabong so far?

This is my best target so far at 300 meter. X ring is 5 cm, 10 ring is 10 cm, 9 is 20 cm and so on. As I said I didn't have the time to really develop its potential.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psguwspf7x.jpg

This is worth 182/200 points good but not really enough if you really want to compete.

This is my best score during a competition with my Made in Italy AR, 195/200. Same target as above.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psm2dmqkhz.jpg

I would say that a competitive FAL should routinely shoot 185/200. That's my goal.

Andy the Aussie January 30, 2012 20:13

Don't forget to tighten the body to TMH fit and if you can find a hythe rear sight it will help greatly. If it remains get rid of the screw and nylon washer that fills the centre of the recoil spring tube (at the very back). Make sure you have minimised the movement in the FH as well (there was a thread on that here recently). Do you or are you required to use a sling ? Any rules on the attachment of it (there were here) ?

Andy

SteelonSteel January 30, 2012 20:22

I see you added photos of your front sight. That's what I was thinking except round. That should work real nice.

When I first got my L1A1/SLR I found out I was missing the set screw when my blade started turning a bit and messing my group until I noticed an odd shadow there. :eek: Now I keep an extra set screw!


Your AR group is pretty impressive for 300m. I too have the .308 group wider but I use a M14. I haven't shot the L1A1/SLR that far yet. 200 yards is as far as I've used her. My club shoots are 100 yds and 200 yds.

paolo.orange January 31, 2012 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy the Aussie (Post 3278465)
Don't forget to tighten the body to TMH fit and if you can find a hythe rear sight it will help greatly. If it remains get rid of the screw and nylon washer that fills the centre of the recoil spring tube (at the very back). Make sure you have minimised the movement in the FH as well (there was a thread on that here recently). Do you or are you required to use a sling ? Any rules on the attachment of it (there were here) ?

Andy

The rule says that rear sight can't be modified. It's meant to keep shooters from installing Anschütz type sights even if some "minor" modifications to the basic design are allowed. I'll come back to this and to the receivers fit soon.

Please tell us more about the nylon washer.

enbloc8 January 31, 2012 10:04

The Hythe rear sight is a legitimate issue sight. Lots of SLR shooters used it in service rifle shooting.

I think the advantages it provides are that 1.) the regular aperture is smaller than the standard rear sight, and 2.) when the regular aperture is used, the low-light aperture leaf (also up, behind the regular aperture leaf) acts like a sun shade, sort of like an American National Match sight.

crcksht January 31, 2012 11:18

Great thread paolo o! Nice shooting too.

paolo.orange February 02, 2012 04:38

Before moving to the set up of the rear sight, there is one last important feature of the FS that needs to be clarified especially shooter that approaches the competition for the very first time.

No matter if you like more the round post or the square post or even the 180° blade, but eventually you need to decide its relative width compared to the aiming black.

For a 6 o'clock hold - the only one that really makes sense in competition- you have three options: Small, Regular, Large. :smile:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8823/mirini.png

My personal preference, as most of the shooters, is for the Regular or maybe something between Medium and Large. I know very few shooters that go with Small, but there is no rule. Pick the width you control better and that makes your eyes happier.

Stay tuned.

FALonious February 02, 2012 06:41

Paolo, Do you know Darkspace? He is in Rome I believe.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...ight=darkspace

19&41 February 02, 2012 07:45

One thing that hadn't been mentioned yet, does your competition allow for the for the blacking or sooting of the sights to reduce glare and sharpen the sight picture? I have found this to be a benefit when shooting long range with open sights.

paolo.orange February 02, 2012 14:31

@ FALonius (great Nickaname): I never met Carlo personally but we have recently exchanged a couple of mails. He has a superb FAL collection!! And yes he is from Rome, the most charming city in the solar system.

@19&41 : excellent point thanks, I completely forgot about that. In Italy sights blackening is not a common practice but I personally find it extremely helpful especially when you are going shooting in full sun light. I blacken my FS with a BIC lighter.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg
I know that Brownells has more professional tools but I do not feel that need right now.

FALonious February 02, 2012 15:26

Thank you sir, you are too kind. Darkspace does indeed have exquisite taste; he also seems to be a genuinely nice guy.
Welcome Paolo and thank you for posting on the Files.

Democrat1 February 02, 2012 18:16

I find Bic lighter soot to be a little reflective
 
A calcium carbide lamp gives the flatest, blackest soot I have ever found. After you get it on there, you may want to protect it with a binder clamp over the sight, clamped on the front and rear sight bases.

A lot of Service Rifle shooters will set on fire the end of a plastic spoon, and play the flame over front and rear sights.

http://www.sbsdistributing.com/index...in_SuperSmoker
http://www.staples.com/Staples-Large...product_831610

paolo.orange February 08, 2012 14:03

I take advantage of the flu that is forcing me at home to write few notes about how I’m setting up the rear right of my Aussie. I’m pretty sure that the enthusiast collector of FAL rifles won’t like my suggestions that, I know, will somehow alter the original configuration, but my purpose is to bring the FAL to the NM… a place where they take no prisoners!

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3es3tqyx.jpg

The standard rear sight of the FAL (especially the Australian) is a beautiful piece of design sharply decorated with a bunch of broad arrows. Perfectly capable to perform its duty from Artic tundra to the rain forest, it bases its ability to works well under severe conditions by mean of …. significant mechanical plays. Perfect for battle fields but less then desirable during a Sunday Match.

As a first step take a look at the clearance that the rear sight has on its slider. Consider that a 0.5 mm movement of the sight aperture because of the play between sight base and its slider translates into a shift of point of impact at 300 meters of about 30 cm.

This is mine.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psawxqkjst.jpg

I have plays in all 3 axis (X toward the target), but what probably bothers me the most is the rotation around the X axis. The solution is radical but very effective. You need to find a welder with a laser welder and ask him/her to deposit a 0.3 mm of stainless steel of the left side of the slider. This is how the job should be done (weld in orange).

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps06xwjwlq.jpg

Now take all the time you have, turn off the cell and start filing the weld bead. It’s a very delicate process that need a lot of checks. Begin with a fine file and give the final touches with a stone. If everything went OK you have now minimized the plays on Y and Z axis and the unpleasant rotation along X axis. Let me say it again: take your time and check frequently!!!
Your slight is still sliding on the slider and you can so adjust for distance as before.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psg0e0ic19.jpg

The problem is that what you did so far does not influence the play along X axis. The spring loaded ball inside the sight base can’t keep the sight firmly in position and some X play it's most likely to happen again.
However, if like me you expect to shoot all the matches at the same distance, then you do not need to move the rear sight since, as I said few days ago, elevation adjustment will be made by the front sight only . So the best you can do is to drill and tap the spring housing on the right side of the sight and install a small screw that locks it against the slider.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5oknkpjx.jpg

Next time I’ll tell about the windage screws.

Abominog February 08, 2012 16:19

I think you are correct about the rear sight.

Since the sight blade and base can be removed as an assembly, just weld the sight blade to the slider and the slider to the base. NOTHING moves!

I wonder (being naughty) if you might try starting with a tall metric sight assembly...probably nobody would notice. Then weld that everywhere.

paolo.orange February 13, 2012 14:37

I totally agree with you, but I also think that most of the guys here would like more a "low impact, reversible " modification.

paolo.orange February 13, 2012 15:02

OK then you have now a sight base that slides on its slider with less plays. If you need a more drastic solution then a screw can replace the ball and spring assembly, but you won't be able to easily adjust large amount of elevation anymore and your gun will be tailored for XYZ range (a fair trade in my humble opinion).

The slider is connected to the upper receiver by a dovetail that needs some cares too. The laser will help you again to add some extra stainless steel to it's base.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...pskuk2ynhd.jpg

Machine it so that the dovetail has a TIGHT fit on the receiver. This is mandatory for a good windage control.

I do not like the "snake" spring designed to provide click adjustment while operating the windage screw. It's not consistent at all and I was never able to get something good out of it.
My solution is to remove it and machining the internal side of the screws heads so that they are dead flat and polished.
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psq2twgsut.jpg
I'm used to very aggressively thigh them against the sight slider and apparently it work pretty well.
If you adopt this option do not forget to bring with you a real screwdriver, not just the bade of your Swiss pocket knife. You need to tight vigorously your sight and avoid any damage to the screw head. I usually adjust by 1/8 turn increment.

A specific feature of the Aussie FAL it's the extra tall real sight. I read a lot about that, but I couldn't find any reason behind this NBA style sight. It's pretty good shooting from standing, but I had a lot of problems shooting prone.
It's too high for the shape of my neck and my face and I can't get a consistent stock weld. Also, after 10 minutes my neck starts hurting and my performance drop.
I approached the problem beginning from my most comfortable stock weld and head position, something I can easily keep for all the 25 minutes of the tournament, and then I drilled a new aperture, where my eyes sat comfortably.
It's about 1 cm below the original aperture. My suggestion is let your body say where the aperture should be. You can't go wrong with that.

gew98 February 14, 2012 21:39

Paolo , I like your methodical approach !. I have an Inch rear sight that I tapped the spring ball insertion hole . I simply loosen the threaded knob I installed in it to tighten up that aspect. I would probably be inclined to do the same on the other areas of axial movment on the rear sight assy as it seems easier than alot of welding and exacting machining , but then again I'm no machinist by far. If you ever take a keen interest in manufacturing some of those "paola custom" front sight blades I'd sure be interested in a couple as I am none too keen on the bladed and I sure have not liked the looseness of it and the checking to see if the set screw has wandered ( again ).
I personally like th emetric front sight assy as it's essentialy what is used on the Armalite types , but I have found for myself that the front sight on the metrics tends to be so short to get a good zero as to almost be flush wiht the sight base...I sure don't like that.

paolo.orange February 15, 2012 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gew98 (Post 3288156)
... I have an Inch rear sight that I tapped the spring ball insertion hole . I simply loosen the threaded knob I installed in it to tighten up that aspect. .....

Excellent! Very very smart move!

Abominog February 15, 2012 07:04

Paolo, you really are serious about all of this. It would be interesting to see just how accurate you can make an L1A1.

paolo.orange February 17, 2012 06:23

OK, let’s move further.

“A good trigger won’t make your FAL shooting any better, but it will make your life much easier” - Paolo.Orange.

Once again, please do not misunderstand me. The basic trigger of the FAL is a superb asset for a battle rifle, but it can be a pain in the back for the X ring shooter. Hey, by the way, did you notice that it’s more or less a clone of the trigger assembly of the great M1 Carbine?

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psbjjlxtkc.jpg

Back to our FALs, there are two modifications I would suggest. I’ve tested them extensively last year and they’ve never left me down.

The first one is to reduce the weight of the Herculean hammer spring replacing it with a lighter one. You need to cut with a Dremmel the open side of the spring housing and set the spring free. In order to reduce it’s power I do not recommend cutting the coils of the spring. I had good luck with a M1 carbine hammer spring plus a small insert for fine tuning.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...pseqidzplx.jpg

Just remember that if you adopt this modification, then the spring housing won’t hold the spring anymore so extra care is needed when you disassemble the trigger group.
Another important point is that generally I really hate reducing the weight of the hammer spring. I find a personal offence if the hammer of my gun has no energy enough to ignite the primer, so take an EXTRA margin of safety: it doesn’t make sense if your FAL can achieve sub moa performance if it can’t bang all the times!!!

The second modification won’t reduce that much the trigger weight but it will make a LOT of good to the overall trigger behaviour. The modification is not so easy, but it’s not too difficult either and you will have a lot of fun a personal satisfaction doing that.

What really bothers the trigger pull is that stupid plunger that reset the trigger forward after every shot. Basically then the plunger is depressed into the pistol grip it rubs against the trigger back, the retaining plate and it’s spring. If you look closely you will also see that it also tries to rotate in the rifle plan making things even worst. I’ve tried everything but nothing worked. A more radical approach is needed.

The idea comes from the hammer spring of the AR15 and basically consists in making an internal trigger spring wrapped around the safety pushing down the rear tang of the trigger assembly.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psvtgypixf.jpg

A drawing is worth 1000 worlds.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...pssviwigro.jpg


Making a new spring is not that difficult, you need a hand drill, a drill bit a wooden block and some harmonic wire.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psnxcp8gud.jpg

You will use the drill bit as a guide for the new spring coil while the harmonic wire is rotated around the drill bit by two pins, one on the wood block, the other on spindle of hand drill.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5eifndcm.jpg

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psjkcrwjo0.jpg

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psulnipmcs.jpg

It won’t take too much time to obtain a couple of springs like this.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psmbu3zjmh.jpg

Note that the number of coil are not equal since the space available in the receiver is not that much. You need then to cut a slot on the rear side of the trigger tang where the front part of the spring will seat.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psmtj3dssc.jpg

Now lube everything and reassemble the trigger.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...pshuwk0hhm.jpg


A very simple test is needed to see if the new trigger system works well. Try this 10 times:
1) With the hammer full forward, pull the trigger all the way back and hold it there,
2) Cock the hammer full back and release it till the sear catches it
3) Release slowly the trigger till you see/hear the rear of the sear leaving its seat on the trigger
4) Engage the safety
5) Pull the trigger as much as you can. It shall not release the hammer in any circumstances.
6) Disengage safety and release the hammer.

The power of the new spring is critical to make point 3) happen consistently. Check carefully.

The plunger and spring in the pistol grip are both useless now. As a final touch I suggest to remove completely the spring and replace the plunger with the shank of a drill bit that you can even glue in the pistol grip. The purpose of this is to limit the rearward travel of the trigger after the release of the hammer.

:)

Abominog February 17, 2012 23:31

Hey Andy, this guy is SERIOUS!

You're lucky he wasn't shooting competition in Australia 20 years ago.

paolo.orange February 23, 2012 14:35

Is this the ultimate trick to control the tightness of the receivers at the pivot?
Have no idea, but it won't harm the accuracy.
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psimqiq6np.jpg
If you like this do not forget a washer under each head of the screws and a shim(if needed) between the receivers ears.

19&41 February 23, 2012 15:48

This thread is truly impressive. One by one, the idiosyncrasies of this rifle that could interfere with its' accuracy potential are corrected. I'm getting anxious to see what the rifle will do with these reasoned modifications!

enbloc8 February 23, 2012 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolo.orange (Post 3293419)
If you like this do not forget a washer under each head of the screws and a shim(if needed) between the receivers ears.

I asked about this on another board, and one respondent (who I believe was in Britain) warned that using washers or shims in this area could bind the operation of the safety sear. Does anybody here have experience with this, one way or the other? (Obviously for most of us in the States, this isn't an issue.)

I'm curious myself as to whether removing free play in this area will make any difference in accuracy.

BC February 23, 2012 23:59

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4320/003xr.jpg

I remember someone asked about the holes in the pivot screw. I remember someone answered it was for tightening the screw. Now it's confirmed.

paolo.orange February 24, 2012 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19&41 (Post 3293466)
... One by one, the idiosyncrasies of this rifle...

Not considering the idiosyncrasies of the shooter! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19&41 (Post 3293466)
I'm getting anxious to see what the rifle will do with these reasoned modifications!

Me too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by enbloc8 (Post 3293497)
...one respondent warned that using washers or shims in this area could bind the operation of the safety sear.

Very very good point.
For who is not allowed to install a safety sear I would suggest to leave it as it is or to install a spacer replacing the safety sear. This will allow a very tight assembly of the the receivers.
But if you have the luck to legally install a safety sear do it! It's an invaluable device that won't allow your FAL to shoot with an open bolt.
It's very good to trade a little bit of potential consistency for a lot of extra safety.

paolo.orange February 27, 2012 05:54

Big Troubles in Milan, let's talk about serious issues.

Last year I noticed that all the spent cases of my FAL were severely blackened.
In a piston type, old rifle this problem is normally due to:
1) light load so that the shell does not expand enough in the chamber allowing gas leakage,
2) an oversized chamber.

So I took the chance to carefully check my chamber. This is what I found out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Tct...eature=mh_lolz

The first round is a perfect sized as per SAAMI/CIP and it fits perfectly into a Wilson headspace gauge. The second shell is a fire formed shell, cleaned, just fired by my FAL...it can't enter anymore into the gage for a very large extent. Big troubles.
ThenI put into the chamber the SAAMI round and I found out that it literally rattles in it.

Also the head space is somewhere between the NO-GO and FIELD.

:eek:

What does this mean? Well, oversized chamber means that the round can't seat consistently into the chamber all the times so the bullet will fly the free bore and will touch the throat in an unpredictable way. This is a potential problem for precision.
The shell will also expand way too much, that means a shorter shell life in case you handload your ammo. The shell is also more prone to crack inside the chamber.
The head space between NO-GO and FIELD might be still OK if you have a zombi knocking at your door, but it will stretch longitudinally the shell more then required.
To make a long story short, this chamber (if fed with SAAMI/CIP ammunition) will fail in term of the precision and is borderline in terms of reliable operations.

A possible solution is to assemble dedicated ammunition. The options are:

1) Fire form the shell and neck size only....but my personal experience does not recommend neck sizing on semi auto

1A) from member tdb59: fireformed in the rifle, use a standard .308 Win sizing die, and set the die to just contact the shoulder of the formed case, and then trimmed to 2.005"

2) Fire form the shell and resize the body of the brass with a .45 ACP die! Seriuosly, it's not a joke. It will resize your brass about 0.004 larger then the regular .308 die. It might be enough for a oversized chamber.

3) Try to resize the shell with a NS made by Forster. If the fire formed shell get's large like mine then the NS will actually Full Size the shell!

4) Ask a die manufacturer to make a special die tailored on your fire formed brass. I kept in touch with Forster, RCBS, but none of them were very happy to help me. I understand that a special die is a pain in the back

4A) from member SteelonStell: in case of chamber oversized AND headspeace exceeding no-go: replace first the locking shoulder to correct the headspace. Since the body of the shell is tapered you should loose some side to side play.

5) Buy a new barrel.

I do not like option 1), option 2) didn't correct the problem enough, option 3) is very radical and bullet/shell co-axiality is difficult to achieve...

..I think I need a new barrel

:o

SteelonSteel February 27, 2012 09:48

Paolo,

I like what I see. Most of us think about what would be better,.....you actually make it and test. My hat is off to you sir.

SoS

Shootability February 27, 2012 09:59

This is the most thoughtful thread I have ever read. Formidable talent.

hagar February 27, 2012 18:50

Are barrels freely available over there? I enjoy your posts, hope you can get the rifle sorted out and go kick some arse.

You should have named the rifle Goolagong, that lady was poetry in motion on the tennis court.:cool:

tdb59 February 27, 2012 19:15

Just as a thought, the dedicated rounds should work- I had a Springfield " National Match M1A " that would swallow a no-go gauge, and would allow primers to back out on commercial brass.

I was using this rifle to shoot the NRA High Power course. [200, 300, 500 yards ]

Using Federal Brass, fireformed in the rifle, I used a standard .308 Win sizing die, and set the die to just contact the shoulder of the formed case, and then trimmed to 2.005". Using this method, I got 8 loadings out of the brass without having to trim again. The cartridges worked fine in slow fire, and rapid fire.

Granted, that was not an FAL, but it could work.

:biggrin:

SteelonSteel February 28, 2012 09:03

How about just changing out the locking shoulder to tighten up headspace?

Granted that will mostly take up front to back play but since the body is tapered you should loose some side to side play in theory.

I remember at one time playing around with my 1" micrometer and finding some brands of .308 brass consistently smaller in diameter at the web/case head. If my memory serves me right, it was Winchester that was the most undersized.

Good luck sir.

gus February 28, 2012 22:13

on the rear sight
 
this may not be legal for match shooting but i used a M-1 milled rear sight placed on a izzy fal rear sight ramp -centered it - mig welded on app.1/4'' where the dovetail is on the m-1 sight ...its now no adjustment tool rear sight ...its semi ghost ring sight

enbloc8 February 28, 2012 23:58

I still say, consider looking for a Hythe rear sight. It's 100% legal (it was issue, after all) and it makes a world of difference over the issue sight.


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