The FAL Files

The FAL Files (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Shotgun Files (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=152)
-   -   Rhodesian FN Police Model Shotgun (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414814)

Nihonto Chicken May 17, 2017 18:38

Rhodesian FN Police Model Shotgun
 
Hi! This is my first post on The FAL Files. I'd love to acquire an FAL firearm, particularly a Rhody, but the politics of the PRKalif. (registration/neutering) make this too unpalatable. As a consolation prize I managed to snag a Rhodesian FN Police Model shotgun, a rather unique arm in its own right that I'd like to show here to any who may have interest. It's one of the later Sarco imports with the unfortunate magazine restriction that I felt challenged to rectify.

Those interested may look at the Shotgunworld thread linked below. Pics of the arm are up front, and the happy conclusion to the long saga of removing the mag restriction is at the end, should you wish to skip the lengthy interim sob story. :facepalm:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=7&t=400524

Maybe some day if/when the politics change and my finances improve, I'll get that baby poop Rhody FAL sibling to keep my shotgun company! :smile:

Battosai May 17, 2017 23:59

Congrats for hanging in there and seeing it through to the end. Have you been able to take it out for a test drive yet?

PvtJoker May 18, 2017 00:06

Congrats; I have been looking for one of those for quite a while now but they just don't seem to come up out here. IF you ever decide to sell it, PLEASE let me know.

mp May 18, 2017 08:54

Congrats. On my WANT list as well......

Battosai May 18, 2017 13:19

I'm pretty much a noob about this sort of thing; after re-reading your Shotgun World thread, I see that this shotgun is more of a rare/collectible/investment firearm and not a regular shooter.

I find it interesting that an FN Police Model A5 seems to have the same recoil setup as a standard Browning shotgun. I've shot my father's Auto 5, and even with regular birdshot, it has a pretty stout recoil. Wouldn't a police shotgun be expected to feed mostly buckshot and slugs? It makes my eyes water just thinking about it... :D

Nihonto Chicken May 18, 2017 13:54

Yes, it's pretty much more a collectible rather than a shooter. There are only about 500 of them (educated guesstimate) existing in the wild, and unlike many M1 Garands and even FALs (except save those such as the Rhody baby poop items), there isn't much doubt that most, likely all, RAxxx marked FN Police Model shotguns saw real field action. Maybe regrettable that they couldn't be retained by those who carried them in earnest, though a boon to far away collectors such as moi. :biggrin:

I haven't been to the range yet with the beast, only tried working some snap caps through the action at home. Unfortunately, they tended to hang up about a quarter inch of clearing the mag tube. Maybe real rounds might move more slickly, but I don't want to fool around with that at home. But, as indicated previously, it's more valuable for what it is as based on how it was employed before, rather than what it can do now and in the future (though in any forthcoming "revolution", I'm confident it could be called upon once more to perform admirably). ;)

eternal24k May 18, 2017 14:38

:bow:
those are by far one of the coolest shotguns. Congrats

SAFN49 May 18, 2017 15:29

What's the going price for a Rhodie A5 these days???

Guy-epic May 18, 2017 16:46

So I have seen a few of these around, I did not think they were rare, or is there a similar A5 that wasn't a police model but had the extended foregrip and tube?

yovinny May 18, 2017 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAFN49 (Post 4423369)
What's the going price for a Rhodie A5 these days???

Last pair I bought were like $279.ea IIRC....:p

Invictus77 May 18, 2017 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by yovinny (Post 4423412)
Last pair I bought were like $279.ea IIRC....:p

I'll take it :)

Nihonto Chicken May 18, 2017 17:39

The last batch to be imported and sold off, by Sarco in 2014 I believe, were going for $995 plus shipping, though they were already selling for significantly more than that on the secondary market. All the last Sarco items were mag restricted, while earlier imports through CAI seemed to be restricted or non-restricted, depending on the time. I've seen them lately going for around 2.5 large on the gun auction/sales sites, near the same vicinity as real US trench shotguns.

There seems to have been an earlier FN Police Model sold prior to the Rhodesian jobs in the late '60s or early '70s, but I haven't seen such an example, all I've seen are the Rhodies.

There is some question as to whether the Rhodesian models were purchased straight from FN, or else something cobbled together by someone aftermarket. While the stock is traditional walnut, the fore end is oak or beech wood. The receiver serial numbers are not continuous and in fact have four different letter prefixes that I have seen, plus the barrel serials do not match the receiver numbers. And while standard A5s employ seamless mag tubes, the extended mag on my Rhody Police Model is seamed tubing.

Would be nice if someone with first hand knowledge could relate the whole story of these unique shotguns as time is starting to run out on those involved in the Bush Wars.

SAFN49 May 18, 2017 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihonto Chicken (Post 4423436)
The last batch to be imported and sold off, by Sarco in 2014 I believe, were going for $995 plus shipping, though they were already selling for significantly more than that on the secondary market. All the last Sarco items were mag restricted, while earlier imports through CAI seemed to be restricted or non-restricted, depending on the time. I've seen them lately going for around 2.5 large on the gun auction/sales sites, near the same vicinity as real US trench shotguns.

There seems to have been an earlier FN Police Model sold prior to the Rhodesian jobs in the late '60s or early '70s, but I haven't seen such an example, all I've seen are the Rhodies.

There is some question as to whether the Rhodesian models were purchased straight from FN, or else something cobbled together by someone aftermarket. While the stock is traditional walnut, the fore end is oak or beech wood. The receiver serial numbers are not continuous and in fact have four different letter prefixes that I have seen, plus the barrel serials do not match the receiver numbers. And while standard A5s employ seamless mag tubes, the extended mag on my Rhody Police Model is seamed tubing.

Would be nice if someone with first hand knowledge could relate the whole story of these unique shotguns as time is starting to run out on those involved in the Bush Wars.

They were made by FN for the SA police and < 1000 were transferred to the RA and used in the bush war. Somewhere between 250 and 500 were imported into the US.

I have one that I didn't remember having until I saw this thread. I know they were going for $1700 back in 2012, but I haven't followed them in a while. I may have to let this one go since I didn't even remember it. It's a 8 shot model.

Look for it in the auction section soon, or I may just go gunbroker since you guys are a bunch of cheap asses. :biggrin:
The last 2 sales in the MP I am still waiting on funds, and it's been a couple months.

Impala_Guy May 18, 2017 18:23

Thats one of the better Sarco guns, most of them were really beat compared to the older Century guns, which were still showing heavy use. Some of these had baby poop paint on them too. A lot of them have color mismatched wood, the forends got swapped around.

The Rhodesian shotguns with the 8 shot tubes were factory guns, not put together or modified later. FN sold a handful of these police shotguns to police forces in other countries, Ezell mentions this in an old edition of Small Arms Of the World. I'll see if I can find it. The A5 police model was not a big seller, it was too expensive compared to contemporary pump shotguns. Ironically the US military spent several hundred thousand dollars back in the late 1970s on the Heckler and Koch CAWS shotgun project when they could have just bought these. Mine is very fast firing and reliable.And it holds nine 2-3/4 rounds of buckshot or slugs.

What's it worth? I'd like to know what mines worth. Ten years ago you could buy a near mint US marked Remington riot gun for 1/3 of what they bring now. Military shotguns are hot tickets.

http://i60.tinypic.com/vqtnwi.jpg

yovinny May 18, 2017 19:13

Hard to believe those prices...
Mine sat here for years at a grand,,,like 2009-2013

stoicrabbit May 18, 2017 19:51

All three POL marked
1- 8 shot Sarco Import
1- 8 shot Century Import
1- 5 shot Sarco Import

Sold the Sarco Import; there is a sale/auction thread in here.
Replaced it with another Century Import so still have 2 - 8 shot and 1 - 5 shot.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...ps579122be.jpg

Posted one of the duplicates for sale for about an hour back in February before I changed my mind.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...psxqjrumlm.jpg

stoicrabbit May 18, 2017 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impala_Guy (Post 4423505)
Interesting that they kept the 24" barrel for the 5 shot. I never saw one of these.

It is a 24" cylinder bore barrel with a POL marked receiver. The barrel serial number and receiver serial number match as do the etched RA#s on barrel, bolt, and receiver.

Nihonto Chicken May 19, 2017 15:43

For any who may be interested, here are the FN serial numbers and the attendant Rhodesian Army inventory numbers I have seen so far on the Bush War FN Police Model shotguns (internet sources not bookmarked):

FN Serial #............Rhod. Army #

............................047 (electro-pencil mark seen on barrel only)
F56263..................087
F55841..................134
............................135
F56071..................142
F56201..................172
F56174..................208
B81109..................209
B80702..................281
.............................322 (? - fuzzy photo, not sure)
B81386..................344
.............................438
B81183..................465
B81241..................498
B80528..................523
A67364..................539
A72049..................540
.............................543
B80645..................556
B80634..................562
B81223..................568
B81131..................607

I indicated earlier on another thread that I had seen a G prefix FN serial number, but a review of my scattered notes failed to uncover this, so for now only three prefixes that I have seen, namely A, B and F.

In any event, note that the FN serial numbers bear no apparent correlation to the RA numbers (for example see RA numbers 208 and 209). So it appears that if these shotguns were sourced directly from FN, they were not a consecutive number production run, and not even three consecutive number runs, but rather look to have been pulled from here and there. Note the span of the FN serial numbers I've seen so far:

A (72049 - 67364) = 4685
B (81386 - 80634) = 752
F (56263 - 55841) = 422

There are likely less than one thousand RA marked FN Police Model shotguns as only three numeric digit RA numbers have turned up so far. If only the B and F prefix numbers had shown up, there would be possibly a fit for two consecutive number FN production runs, but the A prefix numbers blow this consideration all to hell. So however these shotguns were sourced, they don't appear to be "hot off the press" consecutive number FN runs.

Will welcome any enlightenment on this as well as any other FN serial and RA inventory numbers. :)

Edit: Unfortunately my table upon submission was auto-edited to remove appropriate spacing and hence was screwed up, sorry, but at least the FN numbers and attendant RA numbers are on the same row.

Second Edit: Tried to restore proper spacing to the table that was removed by the auto edit upon submission blank space deletion "feature".

Third and Fourth Edits: New table entries.

Nihonto Chicken May 19, 2017 15:57

Interesting that your second Police Model shotgun has a round knob grip end. It's the first I've seen like this, a throwback to old times? What is the FN serial number on this one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoicrabbit (Post 4423504)


SPEEDGUNNER May 19, 2017 18:01

If there is one for sale somewhere in this thread I am a buyer. I have been looking for one of these for a long while.

SAFN49 May 19, 2017 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEEDGUNNER (Post 4423912)
If there is one for sale somewhere in this thread I am a buyer. I have been looking for one of these for a long while.

There is now

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...76#post4423976

:uhoh:

Nihonto Chicken June 06, 2017 18:44

Second Chance Derby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEEDGUNNER (Post 4423912)
If there is one for sale somewhere in this thread I am a buyer. I have been looking for one of these for a long while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAFN49 (Post 4423978)

Don't look now, but here's a second chance for RA FN Police Model owner wannabees:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/654131500

I list this with some trepidation. Those who are interested in this "heads up" may be mildly thankful, while those who found it on their own and don't want the bidding competition will consider me a meddlesome @$$#0|e who should effing mind his own biz. Oh, well. :shrug:

SAFN49 June 12, 2017 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihonto Chicken (Post 4432776)
Don't look now, but here's a second chance for RA FN Police Model owner wannabees:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/654131500

I list this with some trepidation. Those who are interested in this "heads up" may be mildly thankful, while those who found it on their own and don't want the bidding competition will consider me a meddlesome @$$#0|e who should effing mind his own biz. Oh, well. :shrug:

Damn, knew I should have run it on GB and not with your cheap asses here.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/654131500

Nihonto Chicken June 12, 2017 23:31

Wow, $3425 plus shipping, just round it off to an even 3.5 kilobucks. Whoda thunkit? I knew I shoulda bought that second one with an uncracked fore end from Sarco back in 2014. Well, maybe not, given the likely retribution from SWMBO. I never wanted to be a tenor. So are these things going to skyrocket and then crash like the stock market? Inquiring minds. ;)

Blackmore June 13, 2017 07:43

Someone should figure out how to fabricate that forearm and a correct length magazine tube extension and spring. A kit with those parts and a tube cutter could convert a lot of beater A5's into cool home defense shotguns.

Invictus77 June 13, 2017 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore (Post 4435775)
Someone should figure out how to fabricate that forearm and a correct length magazine tube extension and spring. A kit with those parts and a tube cutter could convert a lot of beater A5's into cool home defense shotguns.

Is something like this what you had in mind? Ends Saturday at noon :)

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415719

Impala_Guy June 13, 2017 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invictus77 (Post 4435795)
Is something like this what you had in mind? Ends Saturday at noon :)

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415719

Some of you guys never fail to amaze me. Where on earth did you find this?

Blackmore June 13, 2017 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invictus77 (Post 4435795)
Is something like this what you had in mind? Ends Saturday at noon :)

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415719

Well, it's clear I never look at the "Auctions".:facepalm:

Invictus77 June 13, 2017 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore (Post 4435866)
Well, it's clear I never look at the "Auctions".:facepalm:

It's still available Amigo.....til noon on Saturday :whistling:

raubvogel June 13, 2017 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impala_Guy (Post 4435807)
Some of you guys never fail to amaze me. Where on earth did you find this?

Porn store

SPEEDGUNNER July 05, 2017 20:56

CORRECT SLING?
 
What would be the correct sling for one of these Rhodie A5 shotguns? Would the Rhodesians have even used a sling?

Nihonto Chicken July 06, 2017 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEEDGUNNER (Post 4446523)
What would be the correct sling for one of these Rhodie A5 shotguns? Would the Rhodesians have even used a sling?

In all the pics of these Rhodie FN Police Model shotguns I've seen, I've rarely come across a sling. Note in the fairly well known photo below, there is a Police model in the center without a sling and a standard A5 off to the right with a sling (another A5 or A9 at the far right, can't tell which, also can't see enough to determine if slinged or not).

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8...wbxo1_1280.jpg

Here's a relatively rare pic of an A9 with a sling, have no idea if the sling is Rhodie issue or not:

http://decg5lu73tfmh.cloudfront.net/...1401704592.jpg

Another A9 with a sling, but this must be a post Bush Wars addition:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImag...wm_9778999.jpg

Given the leverage on the extended mag tube only anchored at the receiver end, I wouldn't choose to stress it with a sling. YMMV. :)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files