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-   -   Interesting FAL boltcarrier (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=429719)

gunplumber July 10, 2018 16:25

Interesting FAL boltcarrier
 
I'm really starting to believe the oval proof is not unique to Austrian.

This came with a non-matching FN bolt and lower, with so much rust that I believe it to be from a SARCO Cuban kit (Belgian Long flash on cut barrel).

If you look carefully around the number, you'll see diagonal sanding marks which suggests to me that this carrier was re-stamped at some point. But the transition to the forward radius is so good, that I can't be sure. Point is, they are not from a cutting tool, but from hand-sanding.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...sandcut-01.jpg

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...sandcut-02.jpg

FUUN063 July 10, 2018 16:54

Looks to me like the oval/number may be originally stamped, but the angled sanding marks further up the carrier's spine is indicative of removing a number and possibly force matching this newly stamped number.


Leland

Impala_Guy July 10, 2018 17:15

I've owned and / or held probably 500+ Krag Jorgensen rifles in my hands over the past 25 years before I completed my small collection of a half dozen guns. Normally the tops of the extractors are beautifully polished to a mirror finish and then fireblued, but several rifles I've seen have very rough sanding marks just behind the retaining pin lug of the extractor. These marks are underneath the original blueing / heat treat.

Whats my point? Never underestimate even a top shelf arsenals ability to hire a schleprock who thinks theres no mixup a belt sander cant fixup.

nwobhm July 10, 2018 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4606378)
....I'm really starting to believe the oval proof is not unique to Austrian....

It's not. The # inside oval has been documented many times on FN produced Israeli carriers. IIRC L/FN was the first to point it out.

I know it's on at least 1 more carrier identical to yours because I tried to buy it. It was a high number StG-58 carrier. Your carrier looks very StG-58 to me.

Single or double cammed?

embatp July 10, 2018 18:06

Mark Iíve got a metric sandcut bolt and carrier....Iíll check it when I get home...

hkshooter July 10, 2018 18:17

The font looks odd to me. Like Turk or Indian or something odd.

nwobhm July 10, 2018 19:06

Any FN box or diamond proofs at front or rear?

Gravelface1 July 11, 2018 20:45

Iíve got one Iíd like to know about also.

http://a67.tinypic.com/24yd7c7.jpg
http://a63.tinypic.com/2ag6hra.jpg
http://a65.tinypic.com/358piyf.jpg
http://a67.tinypic.com/5nucgh.jpg

gunplumber July 11, 2018 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwobhm (Post 4606444)
Any FN box or diamond proofs at front or rear?

no

gunplumber July 11, 2018 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravelface1 (Post 4606947)
I’ve got one I’d like to know about also.

renumbered aussie, bolt carrier, batch number - 1960 or earlier. You can see the faint outline of the original Aussie electro-pencilled number underneath the new stamping. 5903762 would be New Zealand, so that is legit. First batch of 209 rifles, presumably for T&E , then yours is in the next batch of 480. So probably the first NZ rifles to actually be issued. Next batch of 500 in 1960. And then another 1000 shipped late in 1960

nwobhm July 11, 2018 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4606949)
no

Single or double cammed?

Gravelface1 July 11, 2018 21:06

Much appreciated,

The wealth of knowledge around here is amazing.

gunplumber July 11, 2018 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwobhm (Post 4606957)
Single or double cammed?

sorry, double.

nwobhm July 12, 2018 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4606962)
sorry, double.

It's an StG-58 carrier. They rarely turn up. IIRC the asking price for one over 5 years ago was $175.

gunplumber July 12, 2018 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwobhm (Post 4607119)
It's an StG-58 carrier.

Based on what?

As I stated before, this matches the condition of the other parts in the kit, that look like FN made for Cuba. And FN used the same proof. So what would make you think the Austrians rusted this one up special? The font is not typical Austrian, although it can pass for German.

nwobhm July 12, 2018 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4607129)
Based on what?

As I stated before, this matches the condition of the other parts in the kit, that look like FN made for Cuba. And FN used the same proof. So what would make you think the Austrians rusted this one up special? The font is not typical Austrian, although it can pass for German.

So you are basing your opinion on what Sarco throws into a box? Sarco has piles of crap everywhere with little organization. Most of the time they don't know what they have. I was in the main warehouse in NJ before they moved to PA. Fun from a collector standpoint.....but you certainly wouldn't sort your product they way they did when I had access.

I don't recall Cuban guns to have had sand cut carriers. Maybe someone with more knowledge regarding Cuban builds can chime in.

That type of carrier is scarce. Only a couple options for them to turn up. FN carriers with # inside an oval are, from my experience, exclusive to Israeli kits. Those Israeli carriers, IIRC, are all single cammed. Also, IIRC, they also had the box proofs too.

There were a few sand cut StG carriers. # inside oval, double cammed points to Steyr.

There are also some matched sets floating around out there too. I know EX-1 had at least 1 set but I no longer remember the details.

No one can say for absolute certain where it came from at this point. IMHO it is a sand cut StG-58 carrier and if I were still into collecting I wouldn't blink at buying it. I have no use for it whatsoever and I want it.

YMMV

embatp July 12, 2018 12:45

184294 bolt and carrier.....bolt is FN proofed with Perron Mark and date code on the side I can’t make out....carrier has what looks like an oval 8 inside the carrier but it’s not struck deep so I’m not sure....possibly a triangle 1 at the rear top of the carrier but it’s faint as well...nothing at the rear of the carrier.....double cam....

nwobhm July 12, 2018 17:35

....Did you really come here without bringing the pictures?

gunplumber July 12, 2018 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwobhm (Post 4607146)
So you are basing your opinion on what Sarco throws into a box?

No, I am basing my "suspicion" on a collection of parts that all bears the same extreme corrosion that is typical of Cuban and atypical of Austrian. Must be the Nordic predisposition to anal retentiveness, but nobody claims the Austrians let their rifles get rusty.

I am well aware of what SARCO puts into kits, as I traded a lot of the parts for MG Dave to finish them out, sell them to customers, who then ship them to me for builds. Argy and Cuban mostly.

Quote:

I don't recall Cuban guns to have had sand cut carriers.
And I don't recall StG carriers being sand cut.

What I'm attempting to do is get validation on is the basis for asserting such and such is Austrian. Not "well I read it on FF. Too many WAGs become "fact" through repetation with no basis.

IF the oval proof is not only Austrian, but also FN, then a FN carrier with oval proof going to Cuba is not in conflict.

Quote:

FN carriers with # inside an oval are, from my experience, exclusive to Israeli kits. Those Israeli carriers, IIRC, are all single cammed. Also, IIRC, they also had the box proofs too.

I learned long ago never top say never or always with regard to FAL parts. I am seeking the basis for an assertion, not suggesting the assertion is false.

Quote:

IMHO it is a sand cut StG-58 carrier and if I were still into collecting I wouldn't blink at buying it. I have no use for it whatsoever and I want it.
You wouldn't want it anymore as I've already renumbered it to a DSA receiver for a generic build. I just wanted to document any unusual parts prior. Heck, I just got in a CAI sporter with EXC+ Belgian brown HGs on it.

embatp July 13, 2018 15:34

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/j...5632CF4094.jpg

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/j...EAB729A569.jpg

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/j...51D638CB1A.jpg

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/j...8AB09EA462.jpg

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/j...C39686D5D6.jpg

nwobhm July 13, 2018 16:27

The numbers are difficult to compare. Since we know the StG stops at 170,000 the 184k range isn't likely StG.

Box or diamond proofs at front or rear?

embatp July 13, 2018 16:41

Nothing on the back of the carrier....on top appears to be a triangle with a 1 in it....diamond proof on side of bolt...canít make out the date code...

EX1 July 13, 2018 18:41

I had 4 at one point all matching # bolts were all Belgian proofed carrier was not.I have one left it is in rough shape but will get pics later.They all came from John Hudgens so likely Armscorp or Sarco.This was close to 18 years ago.EX1

EX1 July 13, 2018 18:43

Mine looks like embatps pictured above.EX1

embatp July 13, 2018 21:01

Any ideas? Replacement parts? Civilian?

EX1 July 15, 2018 11:30

I would guess a special contract but have no proof of this.EX1

nwobhm July 15, 2018 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by embatp (Post 4607825)
Nothing on the back of the carrier....on top appears to be a triangle with a 1 in it....diamond proof on side of bolt...canít make out the date code...

Who is the controller on the bolt?

embatp July 15, 2018 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwobhm (Post 4608489)
Who is the controller on the bolt?

Canít find any obvious marks that I can make out....

Aeroscout July 20, 2018 19:30

Another Interesting Bolt Carrier
 
Can one of you guys ID this Bolt Carrier? What is the significance of the lower stamp?

https://i.imgur.com/1g45zyY.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/vfwjb63.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/18x4WSY.jpg?11

nwobhm July 20, 2018 20:17

FN G1 Border Guard IIRC

D* = FN Controller = Marchal Renť 1951-1968


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