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-   -   NY compliant fixed Magazine (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416874)

chasengineering July 10, 2017 20:11

NY compliant fixed Magazine
 
Hello Gentlemen, I need your help and ideas. I just bought a STG kit from the Marketplace. My problem is that I live in the Cuomo communist controlled state of NY, and the magazines need to be a max 10 round fixed into the receiver. Has anyone figured out how to fix the mag into the FAL receiver without permanently damaging the reciever. Something along the lines of the AR maglock. I have my own machine shop and make my own maglocks for the AR-15, but I have not seen and type of similar device for a FAL. Any info out there?
Thanks in advance.
Chas.

4markk July 10, 2017 21:15

Not a bullet-button, but I made ones like this for my son when he lived in CA. Definitely no where near as fast as a bullet-button. This no longer meets the CA law, haven't looked into the NY law, so I'm not sure.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1473607895
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1473607895

Root66 July 11, 2017 15:27

Just replace the release lever spring with a 1/8" pin of the correct length and install a stripper clip top cover.

chasengineering July 11, 2017 16:30

Thanks for your help guys :biggrin: :fal:

wolfspotter1 July 11, 2017 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4markk (Post 4448888)
Not a bullet-button, but I made ones like this for my son when he lived in CA. Definitely no where near as fast as a bullet-button. This no longer meets the CA law, haven't looked into the NY law, so I'm not sure.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1473607895
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1473607895

I live in NY & did this also. Put the original aside and bought a second one to modify. Found that the magazine's very easy to load through the ejection port.

1769 July 12, 2017 06:02

Move to a different state. :biggrin:

4markk July 12, 2017 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1769 (Post 4449530)
Move to a different state. :biggrin:

Y'al need to take back Vermont from the Flower Children (Ethan Allen is rolling over in his grave).

At least all attempts at gun control have failed.

DakTo July 12, 2017 07:35

A greater question is how do you build it when the NYS open registration for so-called assault rifles has closed? Was the receiver registered previously?

DakTo July 12, 2017 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4markk (Post 4449546)
Y'al need to take back Vermont from the Flower Children (Ethan Allen is rolling over in his grave).

At least all attempts at gun control have failed.

Mark the commonwealth politicians and the liberals of Northern Virginia have not only taken over the state but are slowly chipping away with their gun control agenda. When I lived there, there was still open carry of hand guns prior to 1968.

Slaughter July 12, 2017 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Root66 (Post 4449244)
Just replace the release lever spring with a 1/8" pin of the correct length and install a stripper clip top cover.

What HE said.

I've done this mod to my regular range gun here in the PRC. Picked up a few Canadian stripper clip top covers from DSA a while back. You can always de-neuter at a later date.

4markk July 12, 2017 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DakTo (Post 4449552)
Mark the commonwealth politicians and the liberals of Northern Virginia have not only taken over the state but are slowly chipping away with their gun control agenda. When I lived there, there was still open carry of hand guns prior to 1968.

Open Carry is and has been legal in BOTH Virginia (slight restriction on semi-auto rifles that are loaded with more than 20 rounds carried in metro areas of more than 100,000 people - only concealed handgun permit holders can do that legally) and Vermont (NO restrictions). So, not sure what you are talking about.

ALSO there hasn't been a Gun Control law passed in Virginia in over 20 years. I'm on the front lines of that one, visiting the legislature in Richmond when they are in session. Heck, my Delegate is a Range Buddy.

chasengineering July 12, 2017 19:34

NY compliant
 
Hello Dakto, yes I hate NY!... There are 3 things I learned from being a Startrek fan. The Borg hive is run by a (wifey) queen, you will be assimilated and resistance is futile. Back to the main topic if you fix the magazine before you assemble the rest of the gun it is not in the banned category. the gun can have all of the evil features, except the detachable mag. The parts themselves are not illegal, you can buy all the AR lowers you want over the counter here as long as you fix the 10 round mag before assembly your good to go........

wolfspotter1 July 12, 2017 20:32

I ordered a gas block & welded the gas port to make it a single shot, straight pull action. The fixed mag was just a precautionary measure. Still have original parts put aside.

raubvogel July 14, 2017 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4markk (Post 4449581)
ALSO there hasn't been a Gun Control law passed in Virginia in over 20 years. I'm on the front lines of that one, visiting the legislature in Richmond when they are in session. Heck, my Delegate is a Range Buddy.

Do you also put the fear into their greasy hearts by visiting it naked?

bigstick61 July 14, 2017 15:25

The real trick is figuring out a non-permanent way of doing this such as to comply with California's new laws. There must be no way to remove the magazine without disassembly of the action (to include opening it up or separating the upper and lower assemblies).

The only non-permanent alternatives seem to be disassembly, removing parts necessary for function or at least semi-auto function (such as removing the gas piston and spring and setting the plug to the grenade setting), or going "featureless". All to some extent or another render the weapon incapable to use or make it impractical to use.

No one making compliance products for California so far seems to have expressed much interests in coming up with something for the FAL; there's something for the G-3, but not the FAL.

4markk July 14, 2017 15:39

1 Attachment(s)
Ok here is the new law in California:

SECTION 1. Section 30515 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:[list of comestic features that give leftist nightmares]

[]

(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.


This could be easy for the FAL. If you ran a set screw down the right side of the ejector block you can lock the mag release in place. I'm think cut a half cylinder in the guide post, drill and tap the hole flush on top with the BOH hole on top, and screw in a set screw long enough to prevent the mag release from moving.

Then it would require you disassemble the action to release the mag (break it open, removed the top cover, remove the bolt/carrier group, and remove the set screw).

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1500064848

chasengineering July 14, 2017 16:01

NY compliant
 
4Markk thank you for all of the effort you are putting into this for the benefit of the other members, instead of turning this into a romper room post.
The legal statutes you quote, are they from NY or Commiefornia.

sgr July 14, 2017 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasengineering (Post 4450686)
4Markk thank you for all of the effort you are putting into this for the benefit of the other members, instead of turning this into a romper room post.
The legal statutes you quote, are they from NY or Commiefornia.


+ 1 .

4markk July 14, 2017 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasengineering (Post 4450686)
4Markk thank you for all of the effort you are putting into this for the benefit of the other members, instead of turning this into a romper room post.
The legal statutes you quote, are they from NY or Commiefornia.

They are for the LEFT Coast. I believe NY's are less strict. It is my understanding that both of my ideas would work for NY. BUT the ejector block one would probably be without a doubt.

Thanks for the kind words. I've spent a career helping people behind enemy lines. That is where the most impact is made. (Besides if we tie the enemy up in a smaller area, they can't expand into others ;-)

bigstick61 July 15, 2017 01:29

4markk, are you saying to drill a hole that goes halfway through that protruding piece there? I really want to avoid drilling the ejector block if at all possible (which is why I said that there are no good options without permanently modifying stuff), but I do have a center receiver section with the ejector block that I might try this out on to see if it works. Certainly, it's better to do something to the ejector block than the receiver.

4markk July 15, 2017 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigstick61 (Post 4450903)
I really want to avoid drilling the ejector block if at all possible (which is why I said that there are no good options without permanently modifying stuff),

It would be extremely difficult to comply with a law that requires a "permanent" change in how a rifle was designed to function without permanently altering at lease one part. Of course the work "permanent" has several definitions.

I have a couple mid-sections I may play with. The 2nd order affect I am concerned with my design would be the set screw walking out and hitting the bolt. Therefore, I would recommend the head of the screw is well below the top of the ejector block and probably use blue LocTight.

gunplumber July 15, 2017 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4markk (Post 4450668)
If you ran a set screw down the right side of the ejector block you can lock the mag release in place. I'm think cut a half cylinder in the guide post, drill and tap the hole flush on top with the BOH hole on top, and screw in a set screw long enough to prevent the mag release from moving.

Then it would require you disassemble the action to release the mag (break it open, removed the top cover, remove the bolt/carrier group, and remove the set screw).

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attac...1&d=1500064848

Good thinking, but it could be a spring loaded plunger like an FN 49 bolt hold open.

bigstick61 July 15, 2017 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4markk (Post 4450941)
It would be extremely difficult to comply with a law that requires a "permanent" change in how a rifle was designed to function without permanently altering at lease one part. Of course the work "permanent" has several definitions.

I have a couple mid-sections I may play with. The 2nd order affect I am concerned with my design would be the set screw walking out and hitting the bolt. Therefore, I would recommend the head of the screw is well below the top of the ejector block and probably use blue LocTight.

The law doesn't require a "permanent" change; all it cares about is that as configured it does not have features X, Y, and Z, or it lacks a certain capability.

Permanent, in any case, does not mean irreversible. I guess I'm more concerned with the latter than the former. It's not like there's anyone making quality FAL parts in substantial quantities these days. If we were talking about a dime-a-dozen sort of AR-15, I would care far less about that.

gunplumber July 15, 2017 17:34

In pondering this a bit more - I don't have a specific way of doing it right now, but my thought is, a spring loaded plunger that introduces a mag catch block when the upper and lower are together. Break the upper open and the pin pops up, unblocking the mag catch.

NFADLR July 15, 2017 19:57

So like this somewhat for the AR but drilled and tapped into the top of the e block...

http://i.imgur.com/gmcT24sl.jpg


Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4451116)
In pondering this a bit more - I don't have a specific way of doing it right now, but my thought is, a spring loaded plunger that introduces a mag catch block when the upper and lower are together. Break the upper open and the pin pops up, unblocking the mag catch.


4markk July 15, 2017 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigstick61 (Post 4451105)
The law doesn't require a "permanent" change; all it cares about is that as configured it does not have features X, Y, and Z, or it lacks a certain capability.

Of course it does. Do we really want to debate the legal meaning of "permanent"? Nothing is "permanent" in the strict meaning of the word. Especially nothing made by man. Anything can be changed and changed back, or changed into something else.

Permanent in a legal sense is based on intent. As in there is no intent to change from one state to another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4451116)
In pondering this a bit more - I don't have a specific way of doing it right now, but my thought is, a spring loaded plunger that introduces a mag catch block when the upper and lower are together. Break the upper open and the pin pops up, unblocking the mag catch.

Interesting idea. Would be easier with an Argie cut receiver and Argie lower with the cross pin.

Root66 July 16, 2017 16:34

Bottom line, just about any ham-fisted DOJ or ATF who is going to check for a non-removable magazine is most likely gonna try to remove the mag by depressing the release lever; if depressing the lever won't allow the mag to be removed the issue will probably be settled.

Only under a more extreme "cavity search" type of investigation will the issue of "permanent" be debated.

gunplumber July 16, 2017 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFADLR (Post 4451167)
So like this somewhat for the AR but drilled and tapped into the top of the e block...

http://i.imgur.com/gmcT24sl.jpg

Wow - very clever. On the FAL the hinge is behind the mag catch, so that won't work, but that's exactly the principle I had in mind.

For those who can't seem to rent that U-Haul.

NFADLR July 16, 2017 22:47

Thanks, BTW I have a 53 ft trailer loaded and ready I just am having an issue selling the land.

When the land sells I won't be needing a uhaul truck I own my own I'm looking for a good Pete 3 axle at the moment know any COE Tractors for sale somewhere between you and I ?

http://imgur.com/YUE6xPg.jpg


Quote:

Originally Posted by gunplumber (Post 4451504)
Wow - very clever. On the FAL the hinge is behind the mag catch, so that won't work, but that's exactly the principle I had in mind.

For those who can't seem to rent that U-Haul.


fullauto July 17, 2017 04:48

When faced with the same situation and not much time to remedy, I came up with this fix. Some may not want to D&T the receiver. I tried unsuccessfully with the allen screw thru the mag catch,then tried this approach. Ten rd DSA mag locked in. I drilled and tapped the side of the DSA receiver for the allen,then I snapped the mag in, and I drilled a dimple in the mag catch,put in the allen with blue locktite and use a stripper clip top cover. When the rifle gets to free america,it will convert in 2 mins. I will use a plug screw in place of the allen. I wouldn't have done this to a FN receiver ,but a DSA-Yeah. One gets to keep all the evil features(except detachable mag)and no need to register as its fixed mag.
http://i.imgur.com/iuz9suwb.jpg


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