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View Full Version : W. German G1 'Battle Rig'.....?


Volksjaeger
November 20, 2003, 17:04
Well, OK....I guess that subject line is a little confusing, but I didn't know how else to phrase it! I'm looking for information or pictures on how the y-straps, mag pouches and belt were set up for a rifleman who would've carried a G1. I have a set of the post war y-straps and the two pouches and even the belt, but no idea how to set the rig up (Lots of clips and such, me no like - Ugh!). Also, did the Germans use any sort of buttpack arrangement? I think it would be a neat accessory for my 'G1'...and NO i'm not the guy at the range who wears that stuff..as far as you know! :wink: Anyway, any info is appreciated!! :confused:

Falcon
November 20, 2003, 17:56
Here is a pic of a BGS unit on night manuevers wearing them, not very detailed, but the real deal.

Falcon
November 20, 2003, 18:03
Can't imagine it being too different than the wartime stuff, perhaps these will help...

Falcon
November 20, 2003, 18:07
...these are a tropical set with the same arrangement...

splattermatic
November 20, 2003, 20:37
your a wealth of information, mark
when you get tired of this stuff, email me all your stash of info..

Volksjaeger
November 21, 2003, 08:01
Thanks for the info everyone. I hope I can figure this one out....If you like WWII German stuff, look under 'souvenirs' at the site below...Some incredibly cool and very historical stuff there - would make a collector foam at the mouth!


http://www.101airborneww2.com/index.html


:cool:

Gewehr1
November 22, 2003, 11:37
Volksjaeger
That is a good question. I bought 2 sets of Y straps from International Military Antiques earlier this year. One set has extra straps on it for a backpack or something. I assume we need a special pistol belt to make it all work.

Every pistol belt I have seen does not have the D ring type connectors.

If you find one that does, please let me know.

Good luck.

John

mrf2
November 22, 2003, 14:50
Jon4246-

The D-rings are attached to the ammo pouches in the german set up. So you put the ammo pouches on the belt and attach the suspenders to them. I think that is what you are asking?

mrf2

Gewehr1
November 23, 2003, 10:39
Mrf2


Thank you very much! That makes perfect sense; I should have thought of that.

Now I just have to find a pistol belt.

Volksjaeger
December 01, 2003, 01:02
Hello Again:

I managed to find the attachment rings for the belt on Ebay...and from what I've seen in somewhat obscure pics of WWII German rigs one set of front straps is used to attach to the mag pouches and the other set goes to the backpack (and where can I get one of those!?). My only question is which set of straps ('front or rear') goes on the pack? Also, did the Germans use a postwar breadbag? Any ideas?

Thanks!

Adirondack1
December 01, 2003, 22:48
They most certainly did have a breadbag, a rubberized OD nylon or canvas.
A local surplus store here has them for about $8-10.00
if you want , I'llcheck if they still carry them, he also had both BRAND NEW and used good entrenching tools with the carrier.

Volksjaeger
December 02, 2003, 14:59
Hey Adirondack1:

If you could check on those that would be nice...I think the tool and bag would go well with the set up. Let me know what the damage is and we'll work out a deal that's good for both of us!

Thanks! :D

hardcorps1775
December 04, 2003, 14:29
Originally posted by Volksjaeger
Hello Again:

I managed to find the attachment rings for the belt on Ebay...and from what I've seen in somewhat obscure pics of WWII German rigs one set of front straps is used to attach to the mag pouches and the other set goes to the backpack (and where can I get one of those!?). My only question is which set of straps ('front or rear') goes on the pack? Also, did the Germans use a postwar breadbag? Any ideas?

Thanks!
vj, the combat pack has two clips on top that fasten on the rings at the top of the "y" strap (when you're wearing the harness). the two dangling straps with the elongated "D" rings fasten to the hooks at the bottom sides of the pack. the belt loops with the "D" rings on them are only used in barracks or when you aren't hooking the front harness straps onto the rings on the ammo pouch.

the germans use the brotbuetel(?) "breadbag" and generally carry it in the rear off to one side or the other. the bgs bag is a kinda lime green color, while the army one is all shades of grey, tan, and od (i believe). the bread bags aren't just for bread but are for all sorts of stuff incl the cleaning kit, personal effects, the butter dish, iron rats, etc. the canteen could be affixed to one of the rings on the breadbag or you can also use one of the "D" rings.

hope this info helps!

derspiess
January 03, 2005, 00:56
The Bundesgrenzschutz [in the image posted above - BTW the Grenzer on the left has an MP1 [post war Beretta SMG] utilize all-leather load-bearing components.

The black leather y-straps [Koppeltragegestell] do not have the auxillary straps of the Second World War y-straps [these were used to attach the a-frame 'battle pack' [Kampftasche] or the traditional horse-hide backpack [Tornister]. The front two straps of the y-straps attach to the metal loops at the top of the black leather magazine pouches [Magazintasche] - two are worn. These type y-straps are very similar to early-Second World War Wehrmacht cavalry [or mounted] y-straps as well as Fallschirmjager [paratroop] y-straps.

The belt [Koppel] is black leather with a two-prong metal buckle.

Sometimes a 'bread bag' [Brotbeutel] is worn on the rear of the belt over the right hip [it is green canvas with black leather fittings]. It has outer attachment points for a canteen and mess kit [laid out Second World War style]. Normally the rifle cleaning kit, fat container, eating utensils, field cap, and other small personal items are carried in it.

The early images of the Bundewehr utilizing the G1 [that I have seen] show them wearing no load-bearing equipment whatsoever [this also goes for when they were using the M1 Garand].

SeppP
January 03, 2005, 09:06
It should also be noted that WWII tunics, and BGS tunics, have their own built in load bearing system. This is in the form of two clips on either side of the tunic at waist level. This will support the belt with light loads. I have not seen any G1 era Bundeswehr tunics, so I don't know if this feature was included on them.

derspiess
January 04, 2005, 01:44
Below is a link to an image of a Grenzer [slang for a Bundesgrenzschutz or BGS Soldat] - I would post the image but it is quite large. The image is circa late 1950's [I believe 1958] and shows some early BGS load-bearing equipment.

He wears the first post-war pattern Splittertarn [splinter camouflage] Zeltbahn [shelter quarter] and of course has the later issue G1 with an Energa rifle grenade fitted.

The y-straps are black leather as is the belt [the two-prong buckle is visible]. On the left side [the Grenzer's right] is the first issue [and ultra-rare - don't look for these as they are the Holy Grail of BGS militaria] G1 mag pouch. It is based on the Second World War G43 [or K43] mag pouch. On the right [Grenzer's left] is a holstered sidearm [possibly a P2 [SIG P-210]. On the Grenzer's right hip [left side of the photo] is worn a bread bag with canteen attached. The canteen is the late Second World War resin impregnated 'Afrikakorp' type canteen [a number of Second World War surplus items were utilized by the fledgling BGS]. In the lower part of the image the bottom handle of the folding e-tool can be seen [most likely Second World War surplus].

http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/7503a94c_m4194c372/bc/My+Documents/energa.jpg?bfcqk2BBEmrjuvQt

This image is an excellent study of the early BGS and its equipments.

************************************************** *********

I am currently working on a new website about the history of West German police and military small arms - check it out [it's not up yet - but hopefully will be running in the next week or so] - www.deutschewaffen.com

I plan to relay information on what weapon is given what designation [P1, G1, MG1, etc.] as well as covering development and usage history. I have seen numerious entries in this forum about what the G2 rifle was or what the G4 was, etc.

Just a quick sample reference:

P1 - Walther P38 [modified]
P2 - SIG P-210
P3 - Astra 600/43
P4 - Walther P4
P5 - Walther P5

G1 - FN FAL
G2 - SIG 57
G3 - H&K G3
G4 - Armalite AR10
G5 - Steyr SSG

MP1 - Beretta MP
MP2 - Uzi
MP5 - H&K MP5

There are many more that will be covered within the context of the website. So if you are interested in this type of stuff - check it out! I will also be looking for INPUT - so feel free to send your info about the weapons that will be covered.

Palo
January 04, 2005, 02:08
VJ,

Well if your getting the field gear, might as well go whole hog and pick up a field uniform while your at it. Go to:

http://www.1944militaria.com/heer_luftwaffe_camo.htm

I've seen a lot of this guy's stuff and it's pretty spot on.

Can't help on the armored car :smile:

derspiess
January 04, 2005, 02:30
BTW thats a U.S. M8 Greyhound.

Falcon
January 04, 2005, 10:46
derspiess, your posts are very informative,welcome to the FALFiles. You're right...for many years I've been searching the world over for the early BGS G1 magazintasche to no avail.

I look forward to your website.

BIG DUKE 60
January 04, 2005, 11:46
I have 2 of the nazi helmets from the movie saving PVT rn(props)

they are steel and are made as close to the real thig as can be.
one reg and one para. and the para is done in a tan with a splinter pattern cover..
the reg has a pea dot green and brown camo cover.

nice copys right down to the revets and straps

set side by side with the real thing they just look like they came from a time warp...
:)

Palo
January 04, 2005, 15:47
Ve' gates Derspiess!

I was not aware that the BGS ever used M8 Greyhounds. While I was a lad, I remember my dad taking me to a firepower demo and seeing a BGS Saladin 6x6 armored car. The 76mm was pretty impressive against a shot up Panzer hull that was the range target. No doupt more than the little 37mm that the Greyhound carried.:beer:

Falcon
January 04, 2005, 21:42
for those that care, here's a link to some BGS and G1 pics I posted a while ago...

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104557&highlight=BGS

J. Armstrong
January 04, 2005, 22:01
derspiess, Welcome aboard, and thanks for your excellent information !

derspiess
January 05, 2005, 00:01
J., thanks for the welcome.

Falcon, I checked your old post - some excellent images. I have been collecting BGS and early Bundeswehr militaria for some time. Its always great to see the stuff you collect actually being used. It seems you can find 'barracks humor' photographs from every era of German military history. I try to correspond with guys I met and served with while in Germany and they always seem to have images of their unit jackassing around in the barracks - usually waving firearms around in the process - surprised there aren't more accidental shootings over there! Heh!

Palo, the BGS seemed to have quite a few M8's - termed Sonderwagen M8.

BIG DUKE, I had a ton of the SPR Wehrmacht stuff [sold it all off a few years back] - bought it from An Der Front [now called At The Front]. Some of the prop German helmets are actually post-war BGS and Polizei helmets reworked to look like wartime helmets. The canteens I had were actually post-war Polizei canteens repainted to look wartime.

Still trying to get my site up and running.

I also deal [part time - as I closed down my surplus store - pretty hard to run it and uphold the law here at the same time] in military surplus and I will have a shipment coming in soon of BGS leather equipment - should be able to assemble sets of suspenders, 2 mag pouches, and leather belts [all original used BGS surplus] for sale. I will post when they arrive to see if there may be any interested parties.

J. Armstrong
January 05, 2005, 18:05
derspiess, Please do let us know about the BGS goodies. I, for one, am interested, and I'd say there are quite a few more as well, from the looks of this thread !

derspiess
January 09, 2005, 16:14
For those interested I have the website up and going - content still lacking - getting that on little by little.

Address is:

deutschewaffen.com

I have also done a quick reference page for the pistole, maschinepistole, and gewehr designations [with icon images] so that folks can see which weapon is which:

deutschewaffen.com/reference.htm

I am always looking for input!

J. Armstrong
January 09, 2005, 19:34
derspiess, You're added to favorites - thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and information with us, sure do appreciate it:bow:

CW TUCKER
January 10, 2005, 07:51
Collector's Corner has a German Border patrol smock and helmet for sale. Their number is 301-223-1334 in Maryland. Good People. These are not mine, just for your information. Tell them CW refered you. CW Tucker