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NZ L1A1 Collector
September 30, 2003, 06:26
You can blame shadow walker for this request it was his post that has sparked my interest in figuring out markings/versions/types of FAL magazines.

It should be noted that there are two types of side tabs that are folded on the bottom of the case to hold the base plate on. At first I thought this was an indication of FN verse non FN made magazines. It's not, since obtaining a Troop Trials rifle magazine made by FN in 1954 which has the narrow, straight sided tabs it has blown my theory out of the water. I now have to try and figure out when this change over took place.

1 and 2 have the straight version
3 and 4 have the wide tapered version

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/nzl1a1collector/Accessories/Magazines/FALbaseplates_zps52b42eee.jpg

It appears that at a later stage these tabs were change to a wider version with a taper (most likely because they retain the base plate better and are more resistant to damage).

With some South African contract mags they have a date stamped on them like in the pic that LarryR posted

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=723992

M-inside-a-U (ground off) for service in Rhodesia
R-C
5-63 (South African made) for service in Rhodesia

M-inside-a-U (possible removed)
4-69 (South African made)

7000 (South African made)

Since I don't have any of these mags and to do a survey correctly you need 100's of examples I need your help. Those of you who have these magazines whether it be 1 or 100's of mags stashed away could you please have a look and post and markings / dates that you find stamped on the magazine and if you know the country of origin of the magazine.


Country of Origin (If Known):

Markings:

Type of bottom tabs Straight or wide/tapered

Thanx for looking and lets see what we can work out about your magazines.

EMDII
September 30, 2003, 11:01
Jeez Kevin! I'm going to have to look at over 100 magazines!

FWIW-
My South African (?) 30x has a 'type 3' body, but the baseplate dimples are quite triangular and go all the way to the edge. IE, they are not inset at all, and the pull-ring at the back edge is type 4 in shape.

No markings to substantiate CoI.

M2A2
September 30, 2003, 20:37
I just did a mag cleaning session and I have a 7000 mag. what is so cool about it that it front beek or tit is brazed sold very heavy duty.

7idl
September 30, 2003, 23:51
I have 50/50 type 3 and type 4 bottoms.

the newer ones I have are the 3's

the 3's also have three holes in the backs for viewing cartridges


there are no markings on any of my mags (they are all metric btw)

origin unknown to me.

NZ L1A1 Collector
October 01, 2003, 00:23
EMDII, that's the sprint.... you probably need to pull them all out and check and re-oil them anyway :p

I've been doing some research into the mags and I have some bad news for you... you know that Libya mag you have I believe it isn't I was looking closely at the Metric rifle were they show the mad and the one they show has a Inch front lug on it. and external floor plate...... check out the pic. I however believe its possible the mag might of come from a SA country? what are your thoughts?

M2A2, Sounds like an interesting mod and probably done at unit level to strengthen the beak.

7idl, it's commonly recognised that the mags with the 'witness' holes are StG58 magazines. there should be some small stamps (inspection stamps) on the magazine case that are oval with a number inside it.

Any more mags out there.............. there has to be a few more owners will to share and learn :)

Peter Wells
October 01, 2003, 04:09
Kevin, would you like a sprinkling of SA marked 20rd mags (contract and local mnfr) for the collection? I can pull out a few specimens and get them off to you.

In the meantime, Chris Bara has recently posted some mag pics on the bottom of the FAL SIG page (click on Links and then on SIGs at bottom of page) of the SAAACA site (www.saaaca.org.za). May be of some help.

NZ L1A1 Collector
October 01, 2003, 17:45
Hi Peter, THANK YOU for you offer I will have to send you a email :)

The SITE (http://www.saaaca.org.za/links/SIG/fal/mags.htm ) is very interesting and I find the magazine intriguing as on the top row are L1A1 type magazines (like EMDII's) with the FN Beak but they are listed as being all Aluminium from the ANC!!!! very, very interesting indeed.

There are certainly some well marked SA mags such as the M-inside-a-U.

so lets see......... for the SA markings there are:-

Just a Date stamp eg. 5-63

R-C
(date)

M-inside-a-U
R-C
(date)


M-inside-a-U


7000

Keep the info coming.

It's possible EMDII your mag might be a steel mag from ANC?

NZ L1A1 Collector
October 01, 2003, 17:55
Having another look at LarryR's picture ........ I believe that the M-inside-a-U
on the first magazine has been grinded off........ see the grind marks where the MU should be above the R - C. It's possible that is why there are the hammer blows on the second mag to deface the MU.

Just a theory.

mr fixit
October 01, 2003, 20:35
Please don't think little of me for the small number of mags I have, but here it is:
All of these are metric
First type: metric, no witness holes
Country of Origin (If Known):UNKNOWN

Markings:none found,

Type of bottom tabs Straight or wide/tapered: Straight

Second type: metric, with three holes in rear
Country of Origin (If Known):UNKNOWN

Markings:under the tab on front of mag isstamped a number in a circle, the numbers I have are; 5,29,10,4,6,19, I have some duplicits of numbers

Type of bottom tabs Straight or wide/tapered: wide tapered

HTH

NZ L1A1 Collector
October 01, 2003, 21:11
mr fixit, THANX you for taking the time to look at your mags, I don't mind if you have 1 or 100 mags so long as your willing to take the time and have a look and share what you find. :)

I'll start with the easy magazines first:-

"metric, with three holes in rear

Markings:under the tab on front of mag is stamped a number in a circle, the numbers I have are; 5,29,10,4,6,19, I have some duplicits of numbers

wide tapered

These are Austrian made StG58 FAL magazines.




The first lot you listed are from an early batch, I'm trying to figure out the transition date when FN stopped making mages with the Straight tabs and changed to the wide.


The change over has to be before 1963 as the earliest mag in LarryR's pic is dated 1963.


I need those people who have brought NIW magazines which have a date printed on the packaging to have a look at them. Especially at magazines dated around 1958 - 1960 What date/Tab version do you have. HELP PLEASE :)

Peter Wells
October 02, 2003, 03:14
Kevin, I would suppose that the mags with the U/m ground off were amongst those sent to Rhodesia with the rifles. We would probably have sent mags on a scale of about seven (one fitted and six reserve) per rifle as Rhodesia had no manufacturing capacity for mags.

They got both FN made SA Contract rifles (with SA crest milled out) and R1s from us and, for obvious reasons, both parties wanted to disguise their origins - half-heartedly I must admit.

Not sure if the grinding/milling was done in SA before departure or on receipt in Rhodesia.

EMDII
October 02, 2003, 12:02
Some of my Variants (I'm going to haunt you Kevin!)


Metrics:
- Hybrid w/Metric beak, blue follower, Inch-pattern base, marked vertically "ST 09773" on RS near bottom
- Hybrid (yes I have two) w/ metric beak, parked follower, Inch-pattern base, NO markings
(BOTH hybrids are steel, BTW)
- EX-1 w/ white stripe, white follower, Type 1 base, FN inspector "4" in small box on back edge near bottom
- EX-1 w/ white stripe, parked follower, Type 1 base, FN 4-in-box AND extra FN inspector "3" in small squares on back edge near bottom
(both of these magazines have provenance to Canada)
- StG w/ witness holes, parked follower, Type 4 base, SDP inspector "24" in small oval on front just below beak (minor variants of StG, all have 3x witness holes)
- Aluminium (5) 20x mags, blue follower, mix of Type 3 or 4 base, FN inspectors' marks except one, which has Y on back near lower edge, "Nowak" hand -scratched on body LS. One of these is unused.
- Several Israeli, mix of parked (Mn or Zn) bodies, some w/ date and IDF mark (e.g. 80YN- where YN is the Hebrew marking), some just YN-in-oval on lower LS back corner of body, mix of Type 1 and Type 3 base
- some VERY smooth plain-janes, blue follower, Type 4 bases, large "O" marking on back (not FN-in-square)
- plain jane, park-over-blue follower, oval insapector mark w/ no internal stamp, and another "4" just below it on the back side. In spite of the oval inspector's mark, NO witness holes.
- German, NATO SN Type 2 base, blue follower, "X" inspector's mark (no box) is typical: hecho vom Deutschelande?

WooHoo! That's a start!

NZ L1A1 Collector
October 02, 2003, 19:33
Peter I would hazard a guess that the markings were removed in SA, it would be a rather embarrassing if on route to Rhodesia the truck was stopped and searched and found to contain a heap of SA made weapons! But that is only a guess, you need to hunt down someone who was high up in the Defence force who knows something about these 'deals' and see if our theories are true.

THANX EMDII for both checking your mags and topping this thread.

Something fir you to check........ possibly something you haven't noticed yet. If you check the back of the EX.1 magazines and compare it to other FAL TYPE 1 and TYPE 2 cases you will notice some things are different.

Firstly, there won't be a horizontal 'stake' in the back of the EX. 1 case...... (is there one?.. no :) )

Secondly, the TYPE 1 case (straight side tabs) has only one horizontal 'stake' at 71mm from the bottom of the case.

Thirdly, The TYPE 2 case (wide / taper) will have two horizontal 'stakes', one at 76mm from the bottom of the case and the other is at the top fold above the locking point of the magazine catch.

I have also Just noted that the 2 main types of base plates and that these have specific magazine cases that they should be with.

TYPE 1 base plate should be used on the TYPE 1 Case, why? look at the reinforcing stamp on the base plate it is wide and is designed to be used with the straight tabs. eg. 1 & 2 in my pic.

TYPE 2 base plate should be used on the TYPE 2 Case, why? look at the reinforcing stamp on the base plate it is narrower and is designed to be used with the wide / taper tabs. eg. 4 in my pic.

No. 3 in the pic is a TYPE 2 case and a TYPE 1 base plate. Note how the wide / taper overlaps the reinforcing stamp of the base plate.


Please note, that all the components are interchangeable, just that in terms of 'correctness' I have pointed out these features. (ok I'm anal and have no life) ;)

EMDII
October 03, 2003, 18:57
:biggrin:
Not a single staking in sight, FN inspectors' marks (both have 4-in-box, on has another strike from 3-in-box, no 7s), and solid white stripes (a bit worn) 85mm from and parallel to the top edge of the box.
:biggrin:

Follower's "heel" has an opening, contrary to that of other followers I've seen!
:biggrin:

Many thanks to a friend.

idsubgun
October 03, 2003, 20:41
Another mark I found, and I'm not sure if this was mentioned already, is a number inside a square "U" on the back of the mag. One from a box marked 1/64 had a backwards 3, others have a 4 inside the U (not backwards). These are the NIW Belgiums. These markings are below the spot weld near the bottom.
I have two other boxes marked with '63 dates, but don't really want to open them as yet.
I'll pull all my mags and give them the once over, but it will take some time.

OBTW, these are the tapered ones. Also, at a quick glance, but not confirmed, is that tapered ones have the baseplate with the small extension around the hole on the end. Like your mag #4. I haven't gone through all of them yet to see if this is a pattern. I see your mag #3 has no extension around the hole on the baseplate.

EDIT: Just found another with the number 6, no "U", has straight tabs. No other markings, but appears to be FN. Also, it's parked.

Israeli mags:

I'll start with these as they were in the four stacks I picked first. These are in no order as to date of manufacture.

First style
Parked.
Straight tabs.
No baseplate extension.
Two takedown holes in baseplate.
Standard Hebrew markings with "oval" around them on side.
No holes on back of follower.
No notch on mag catch.

Second style
Same except:
Blued.
Two holes on back of follower.
Notched mag catch.

Third style (later Izzy's?)
Painted black.
Same markings.
Notched mag catch.
Holes on followers.

Fourth style
Parked.
No holes on follower.
No notch on mag catch.
Straight tabs.
Has usual Hebrew markings, but no "oval" around them and has the number "80" in front of markings.

EMDII
October 03, 2003, 21:13
I wonder how many inspectors FN had?

NZ L1A1 Collector
October 03, 2003, 23:08
idsubgun, thanx for looking at your mags. What I really need is some NIW mag that are dated circa 1958 - 1960 to see when they changed to the TYPE 2 Case and base plate. If you find some marked as such could you open them and save the later dated ones as they will be the TYPE 2.

This pic is from another tread I started about the different followers I have found so far. Ted you will notice the X8E1 mag looks the same as your EX.1 mags.

Note on #4 that the rear of the follower has a different design similar to the X8E1 design. This is probably from a very early (1955) Israeli magazine. As this feature was later changed to the stronger FN/British design.

FAL Followers

1. 1954 X8E1 British trials rifle magazine follower
2. Standard FAL magazine follower
3. German G1 FAL magazine follower
4. Israeli FAL magazine follower

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/nzl1a1collector/Accessories/Magazines/FALfollowers_zps79707170.jpg

jim west
October 04, 2003, 22:18
I went through a case of fifty Israeli mags,all except four are more or less the same as idsubgun's post. The four mags look like FN mags,no markings at all except a L stamped just below the bottom brazing.I can't seem to find the other case.:(

EMDII
November 23, 2003, 08:04
Canadian and Australian variations:

FWIW, I've got several of those NIW Inch mags, and they have no 'British' markings (NATO p/n on body). The stay-dry pouch is marked w/ the following p/n:
1005-21-150-5286

where a British case would have this marking:
1005-99-960-2043

So I obviously have something different.
Body: The body is parkerized.
Front Lug: Rectangular. The front lug is definitely 11/16" long, and 7/16" wide.
Body: It has a small indent ( I presume this is for access to the take-down hole in the lower plate) at the back/bottom edge.
Finish: Parkerized
Date of Manufacture: May 1960 (imprinted on box)
Other data:
Centered 3/4" up from the back/lower edge is a VERY round circle imprint (1/8"), a welding/assembly hole as best I can determine. A similar circle is 5/16" below the follower opening on the back plate.
The rib has two indents, one at 1-1/8" and the other at 3-3/8" up from bottom. These are reinforces IMO.

These appear to be C1 magazines.

Canadian Magazines (manufacturing details)
There are two Canadian 20 round magazines, the first was called the ‘C1’ magazine, which was superseded in 1961 by the ‘C1A1’ magazine.

C1 Magazine (1956 - 1961 approximately)
Markings: Devoid of any markings
Finish: Phosphated.
Manufacturing differences;
Front Lug: 17.4 x 6.4 mm (rectangular section).
Top inside edge: Chamfered edge.
Follower: Bright steel (not phosphated)
C1 Case: Has a small indent at the bottom rear of the case just like ‘metric’ magazines.
Bottom Plate: Has 3 ribs on the reinforcing section and two dimples at the rear of the plate to hold the plate on like with a metric bottom plate


C1A1 Magazine (1961 onwards)
Markings: Devoid of any markings
Finish: Phosphated.
Manufacturing differences;
Front Lug: 17.4 x 6.4 mm (rectangular section).
Top inside edge: Chamfered edge.
Follower: Bright steel (not phosphated).
C1A1 Case: Looks externally like the Australian and British L1A1 cases.
Bottom Plate: Looks like the Australian and British L1A1 bottom plates.


Australian Magazines
Markings: Australian Magazines are devoid of any markings.
Finish: Phosphated over-coated with satin black paint(sometimes referred to as SunKorite)
Manufacturing differences:
Front Lug: 19 x 6.5 mm (rectangular section).
Top inside edge: Squared edge.
Follower: Phosphated

(kiind thanks to Kevin in NZ for many details)

EMDII
November 23, 2003, 08:11
An Inch magazine that 'appears' Australian, but is Sunkorited:
- 3/4" (19mm) x 7/16"lug
- top/inside at front lug is squared, not chamfered
- no body markings or follower (platform) markings
- platform appears blued, or else the metal was VERY smooth before parkerizing
- assembly hole in back plate is 3/32", smaller than the 1/8" holes in the Canadian bodies

EMDII
November 23, 2003, 19:14
Well, finally got one of the Tapco hybrid mags down into component parts.
- Body: no marks
- platform/Follower: no marks
- retainer, platform spring: no marks
- plate, bottom: big 9-16" 'BR' on outside and lo and behold
- Front lug WAS a large British (9/19" x 7/16"), removed and replaced w/ a Metric 'beak'

INSIDE of bottom plate
- E-in-D Enfield cartouche
- 60 (year of manufactire)
- 9602044 NATO p/n (in very tiny font! )

Mystery mag solved!

P806
November 24, 2003, 17:54
Some metric aluminum markings:
http://izerop.com/p806/AlumY.jpg

P806
November 24, 2003, 17:56
http://izerop.com/p806/alumC.jpg
http://izerop.com/p806/Alum2.jpg

P806
November 24, 2003, 18:06
STG mags:
http://izerop.com/p806/Steyr23.jpg
http://izerop.com/p806/Steyr5.jpg

P806
November 24, 2003, 18:09
Hybrid, parked....W or M?
http://izerop.com/p806/SteelparkedM.jpg

Jambo
November 24, 2003, 19:32
4 metric magazines:

2 type #2's (both from Tulsa Gun Show last April) $3 or $4
1 has a floor plate with exact same numbers as in the picture, has a "3" inside a circle, and the follower is a little different. It doesn't have the tabs that hold it onto the magazine spring and the tab that catches the bolt hold open is a simple "L" shaped protrusion, instead of the ledge-type tabs on other followers (Type 4 follower). There is also an unidentifiable marking on the back of the magazine at the bottom.

The other one has a blank follower, and on the back of the magazine body around the bottom there's an upside-down "M" with an under line. There is also an unidentifiable marking on the back, at the bottom. It almost looks like a lower case "g" on its side. Looking at it upside-downupside-down: I think it's a "6" inside an upside down "U". Next to it is what I think is an "A" inside a circle, on its side. The faded circle and faded upside-down scrunched together make it look like a "g" on its side. And it has a Type 2 follower

2 type #4's (both from Tapco)
Both magazines have no visible markings on either the floorplates or the bodies, except one; on the back, around the bottom, it has a stamped circle with some illegible squigley scratches inside. It's probably nothing. Both magazines have Type 2 followers.

Steelcore_7.62
November 24, 2003, 22:31
Kevin,
here is are some variations that I found in my 20 rd. mags:

3-pack of aluminum, wrapped in manila type yellow paper with matching gummed manila tape. No markings on the paper. Followers are like the type 3, but have the "step" at the back like #1 and #4 have. Followers are bare aluminum. The bodies are proof marked at bottom front with an underlined "P" and the "square "U" with an "o" inside. These are painted flat gray, not semi-gloss gray like most Belgian Army surplus parts. These also have a small punch mark, like a hardness test under their smaller size beaks, one of the three has two such marks side-by-side. Bases are type 3. These are from Belgium. I had been waiting for an excuse to look inside this pack, since they were bought sight unseen.

Not able to find any proofs on my NIW steel Belgian mags. These are the standard type 2 blued follower and type 4 base plate. Came in clear plastic 5-packs. Black paint is pretty thick so the proofs could possibly be hidden by it.

No proofs on the typical NIW aluminum Belgies either. Same plastic 5-packs of black painted mags. These have the type 2 black anodized aluminum follower but have the "step" like the type 1 and 4. Type 3 base plates.

Wish my digicam took macro shots, but hopefully this info is of help.

Cheers,
Darrell

EMDII
November 25, 2003, 03:07
Those magazines w/ oval inspectors' marks are most likely Austrian StG. Do they have witness holes?

torque65
November 25, 2003, 14:08
I have a 1/2 dozen aluminium mags with the STG-type inspectors' stamp and NO witness holes. :confused: :confused:
(EvMOd: no value-added, you've been edited)
My others are all type 1 with no markings.

EMDII
November 25, 2003, 14:48
Can you get a macro pic of the mark? Is it numerical or alpha?

EMDII
November 26, 2003, 09:02
Canadians: we need your help-

From Kevin in NZ:
I've just been doing some research about the canadian magazines and have found there are 3 types or retainer plates (retainer plate is what the
bottom of the spring clips into) one for the C1 and two versions for the C1A1 magazines, also I have found in the info I have has the price of some components ...... a C1 Magazine cost the Canadian Army $5.05 ea. and a C1A1
cost $5.03, these prices were correct as at 1963.

What I really need to do is ask the Canadian members to have a look at their
magazines and see if they can find the 3 types of retainer plates, and if
possible if they would send me one of each of the plates for my research. The British and Australian plates are suitable replacements and so long as the owners don't care about 'correctness' it shouldn't be a problem.

If you know anyone in the great white north ask them to have a look at their
mags I bet they have never realised about the different parts!

84SS
February 03, 2004, 11:44
I picked up a box of 6 L1A1 mags last week & 2 of them are marked RFI ,I do'nt recall the dates.

NZ L1A1 Collector
February 03, 2004, 15:40
84SS your 'RFI' marked magazines are from India for their 1A or 1A1 rifles.

Thanx for looking for me :)

Buck Shott
May 07, 2004, 18:25
Hey guys
I got a metric magazine that has only two letters on the floor plate for a mark.

its marked BB

Any ideas?

Buck

NZ L1A1 Collector
May 25, 2004, 05:40
Buck Shott: does your metric magazine have an 'inch' type floor plate? There are some converted Inch to Metric magazines out there converted by the Rhodesian Army for use in FAL's. These are marked with a large 'BR' on the floor plate.

Other then those I haven't seen any 'BB' marked metric floor plates. Are you able to post aor send me a pic of the magazine markings?

Here are some metric floor plates that I have found so far.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/nzl1a1collector/Accessories/Magazines/FALfloorplates_zps48969a35.jpg

Don Williams
May 25, 2004, 15:44
Hey Kevin,

Looking at the NSN marked magazine, doesn't the 13 for the country code mean it was manufactured in Belgium? I thouhgt these were made by FN? I guess they were german issue but they weren't made there.

Rooster
May 27, 2004, 23:34
Thanks for the excellent diagram NZ. You are always a great wealth of knowledge.

NZ L1A1 Collector
May 28, 2004, 03:10
Don Williams: yep your right '13' does mean it was made in Belgium. The thing is the magazine was made by FN for use with the German G1's. The diagram is missing the 'G1' part of the label.

Rooster: Unfortunately the diagram isn't as good as the original which I did in WORD97 and then copied and pasted it into PhotoShop and turned it into a .jpg unfortunately during the process the quality suffers :(

The diagram is likely to change as I find other examples to draw up

OODA_Loop
June 03, 2004, 06:15
How durable was the aluminum (or aluminium!) magazine in service?

wolfer
September 14, 2004, 23:48
Hello guys....i'm a new member of this forum.....NZ L1A1 COLLECTOR....i have several FAL mags....ALOT still in the wrap and several i took out of the wrap..all metric....and i have some inch mags i USE ALOT....along with a couple inch mag bodies still in the box....its late here right now and wife is in bed so i can't turn on lights and start digging through my mags but i will take inventory and post my findings on markings etc....i will try to scan a wrapper and post the pic here also if it might help....i'm a proud owner of an 85 Onyx Lithgow and researching it is what brought me here and made me join the forum....

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 15, 2004, 22:39
Hi wolfer, Welcome to the FALFiles I'm sure you will find lots of useful information here and there are a lot of guys who can help you out with any questions you might have.

I will be great to see what you can find out about you metric magazines especially if your able to provide dates for the magazines. The magazine bodies in the box should be Canadian C1 magazine bodies.

Info about your Onyx would be great I have been doing a survey of these and Eden rifle when they appear and it would be great if you could send me it's serial number and what sort of parts kit the rifle is built with. Plus which address is being used for Onyx. So far there have three different address stamped of their receivers. If you type Onyx or Eden into the search function and do a search from the beginning in all open forum you will find a lot of topics about them.

CAR
September 18, 2004, 06:50
I have 22 FN made FAL mags (20 are in the box from FN) no markings on any of them.

Out of the 10 British L1A1 mags I own, 3 are marked on the charging handle side as follows....

1. Enfield cartouche "61" then "9600017" down the side with a broadarrow mark.

2. Enfield cartouche "76" then"9600017" with broadarrow.

3. Enfield cartouche "83" then '9600017" with broadarrow.

The text stamping on the 83 mag is of a slightly smaller font and much heavier than the two earlier mags.

EMDII
September 18, 2004, 07:10
CAR-
Nice update. The "9600017" is the NATO Stock Number fo the magazines.

rmplstlskn
April 25, 2006, 18:47
I have a mag that has a Type #1 baseplate and a Type #1 follower (1954 X8E1 British trials rifle magazine follower). It also has a number stamped into the baseplate with a worn paint band around the circumference.

If this is worth anything to someone for their collection, I will trade it out for another magazine. Here are two pics...

http://www.wwyd.org/images/AR15/Mag-FAL-01.jpg

http://www.wwyd.org/images/AR15/Mag-FAL-02.jpg

Rmpl :D

SLR-5000
June 29, 2006, 08:21
Indian 30 round L4A1 mags with standard 20 round inch wire springs, (not flat steel springs like in all other inch 30's).
1994 manufacture.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/pioneerparts/SLR%20pics/Picture252.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/pioneerparts/SLR%20pics/Picture254.jpg

Strike Penguin
September 14, 2006, 16:28
Just got four mags, at least three of them are Israeli. They came with an old surplus mag pouch from Sportsman's Guide. I'm thinking of selling them but I figured I'd document them first, maybe it's useful to somebody. I looked up the Hebrew alphabet to get names of the Israeli letters.

1. Israeli, steel, black painted over bare steel, gray parked follower with no holes, long bulge, and short, flat BHO tab. Straight tabs. Floorplate is like an "Israeli Type 1" except there's only the one large hole. There was some odd blue plasticky stuff wedged between the body and the floorplate at the front corner, I have no idea about its origin. Marked "80 decimal (Tzade Tav)" on the left rear, and "decimal (Gimel Pe)" on the back side. See photos below:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2575/smdscf2443falmagsisraeli80sw3.jpg

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7545/smdscf2446falmagsisraeligzf4.jpg


2. Israeli, steel, black painted over gray park, rough gray parked follower with only one "house-shaped" hole up front, long bulge, tall cylindrical BHO catch. Tapered tabs. Floorplate is like an "Israeli Type 1" except there is only one large hole and no small hole. Marked with the standard "Tzade Tav" within an oval on the body.

3. Israeli, steel, black painted over gray park, blued follower with two small square holes at rear and "house-shaped" hole up front, short bulge, and tall cylindrical BHO catch. Tapered tabs. Floorplate is "Israeli Type 2" and there is what MIGHT be the letters "EM" in English scratched onto the floorplate. Could be just a coincidental scratch too. See photos below, it's the third mag from the left. Marked with the standard "Tzade Tav" within an oval on the body.

4. Unmarked, steel, black painted over park, blued follower with two square holes at rear and "house-shaped" hole up front, short bulge, and tall cylindrical BHO catch. Tapered tabs. Floorplate is "Israeli Type 1" with the large hole ahead of a small hole. Hardly any dings, dents, or scratches, but a lot of paint wear and rust on the body, looks like wear from carrying or storage.


Here are pictures of 1-4, left to right in all photos:


http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8715/smdscf2431falmagssidesbp1.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7193/smdscf2436falmagstopssh7.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9285/smdscf2438falmagsbacksul9.jpg

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7442/smdscf2439falmagsfloorplatesgd8.jpg

archy
November 29, 2006, 15:34
Originally posted by Peter Wells
Kevin, I would suppose that the mags with the U/m ground off were amongst those sent to Rhodesia with the rifles. We would probably have sent mags on a scale of about seven (one fitted and six reserve) per rifle as Rhodesia had no manufacturing capacity for mags.

They got both FN made SA Contract rifles (with SA crest milled out) and R1s from us and, for obvious reasons, both parties wanted to disguise their origins - half-heartedly I must admit.

Not sure if the grinding/milling was done in SA before departure or on receipt in Rhodesia.

I have 6 magazines that returned with me from my stay in South Africa and Rhodesia in 1977-78. I'll check them for markings, and add to the data collected here, but I can tell you from memory that one is of Israeli origin and one is a Indian L1A1 [1A1] magazine with the milled front pivot lug.

The others have the external/ L1A1 tyoe magazine bottom plate [floorplate] and distance plate. [floorplate catch]

My magazines aren't painted- that mischief was in process but was far from complete when I was there.

FYI, Portugal was another large-scale supplier of Rhodesian FAL magazines, though the Portugese military used the G3 rifle in their own African colonies.

Strike Penguin
December 13, 2006, 21:29
I bought two Inch mags from another member recently. Both are black painted, both have parked followers. One is completely devoid of markings, the other is marked on the body, follower, and floorplate.

http://www.theforbiddenjungle.com/offsite/smDSCF2611_inchmag_body.jpg

http://www.theforbiddenjungle.com/offsite/smDSCF2614_inchmag_follower.jpg

Floorplate:
(D with a notch through it) TT 9602044

Body:
1958
(backwards P)R L2A1 960-0017

Follower:
MTY
9603059

K.R. Rabbit
February 01, 2007, 16:15
Does anyone know what the R-C means on the front of South African magazines?
Thanks,
Rabbit

Mosin Guy
February 01, 2007, 18:25
http://www.saaaca.org.za/links/SIG/fal/mags.htm

Northwoods
May 20, 2007, 15:25
I have a metric mag with a white paint stripe around it with black paint over that. Type 1 side tabs. Follower is a 1 Trials mag in unfinished steel. Floor plate is a steel FN X2E1 marked OBO362. I have some good pics I can Email. I would swap this mag for a good inch mag if anyone wants it.
Bruce

Falcon
May 20, 2007, 18:11
I'll swap you, pm sent.

Northwoods
May 20, 2007, 20:15
What can you tell me about the mag?
Thanks Bruce

Falcon
May 20, 2007, 22:13
The magazine belongs to the FN EX1 series rifles that Canada adopted in 1953 (they were the first country in the world to adopt the FAL rifle). The EX1 rifles were numbered OB001 through OB1700, the EX2 series picked up where they left off to OB2000. The magazine contract for these rifles amounted to 6,000 units, yours specifically was issued to rifle # OB0362.

I have built an EX1 from original parts (except receiver and a few small parts) and is rifle # OB1067. I would like to acquire the magazine for this rifle, if still possible.

Here is a picture of my rifle...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/Falcon007/Ex1rt.jpg

outta_ammo
September 22, 2007, 14:49
I have one metric mag that has a completely different base arrangement - the body has lips the bend out :eek: and the base wraps around them and has a release button - hard to explain, but please see the pics and tell me if this is an unusual type.

Body, base and follower aer marked: 9600017 MTY 59

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/outta_ammo/DSC00931.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/outta_ammo/DSC00940.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/outta_ammo/DSC00939.jpg

Exotic, or aftermarket junk?

Thanks!:fal:

NZ L1A1 Collector
September 22, 2007, 19:42
Originally posted by outta_ammo
I have one metric mag that has a completely different base arrangement - the body has lips the bend out :eek: and the base wraps around them and has a release button - hard to explain, but please see the pics and tell me if this is an unusual type.

Body, base and follower aer marked: 9600017 MTY 59

[Exotic, or aftermarket junk?

Thanks!:fal:

Your magazine is a British made L2A1 20 round mag manufactured by "The Mettoy Co. Ltd" in 1959. If it has a metric 'beak' then the magazine has been converted for use in a FAL rifle.

Quite a few magazines were converted in Rhodesia.

outta_ammo
September 22, 2007, 20:33
Thanks Kevin! That makes perfect sense, when I look at the latch area I can see the outline of the previous inch lug attach point.

This is WAY more fun than ARs...

roster228
October 25, 2008, 12:39
I have identified most of my magazines, one though Im not so sure about. It has the number "7108" on the front about half an inch above the floor plate.

Most of the rest seem to be South African. I have one unmarked mag that must be from some South American country as it has a spanish name scratched in the side.

SPEEDGUNNER
June 21, 2009, 08:26
Are FAL mags collectible? Or are there so many of the commonly found ones out there that only a uniquely marked one would command a premium? How does swapping out the floorplates with "MADE IN USA" marked ones affect mag collectibility? Is a mag with the original floorplate worth more than one with the replacement floorplate?

NZ L1A1 Collector
June 21, 2009, 22:50
Originally posted by roster228
I have identified most of my magazines, one though Im not so sure about. It has the number "7108" on the front about half an inch above the floor plate.

Most of the rest seem to be South African. I have one unmarked mag that must be from some South American country as it has a spanish name scratched in the side.

7108 is found on South African made mags, I have one marked '7711'.

NZ L1A1 Collector
June 21, 2009, 23:03
Originally posted by SPEEDGUNNER
Are FAL mags collectible? Or are there so many of the commonly found ones out there that only a uniquely marked one would command a premium? How does swapping out the floorplates with "MADE IN USA" marked ones affect mag collectibility? Is a mag with the original floorplate worth more than one with the replacement floorplate?

Yes some FAL mags are collectible in their original condition, the problem is like you said there are a lot of mags out there and generally people are unaware of what version of magazines they might have.

The earlier mags are collectible for serious collectors, if you want quality shooting mags then you would be better to get the latter mags that have wide tapered bottom tabs. These date from post 1961/2 onwards and all the kinks have been ironed out of the mags by then.

Personally for me (as a collector).... any mag with replaced US MADE parts is worthless. If its in original condition, then it would depend on what version/type of mag it is to determine the value of it.

kuffaar
December 13, 2009, 11:38
Here's a couple photo's I took of the four mags I have; great thread. Being a neophyte FALaholic, I had no idea, there were a zillion different type mags! And thanks to Strike Penguin I discovered one and two are israeli marked on the side of mag body; no other marks found. #3 came with the imbel kit I'm currently putting together; my first build. Mags are kept in the same order in all photos. What a terrific site this is, a wealth of information. I hope my meager contribution is useful. :bow:

http://www.members.cox.net/kuffaar/Metric Mags 01.jpg
http://www.members.cox.net/kuffaar/Metric Mags 02.jpg
http://www.members.cox.net/kuffaar/Metric Mags 03.jpg
http://www.members.cox.net/kuffaar/Metric Mags 04.jpg

Windustsearch
December 13, 2009, 19:34
These are all marked Israeli, characters inside the oval.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/Windustsearch/IMG_1064.jpg

Loski
September 21, 2010, 08:55
I have 4 mags all are well used and have no markings but have standard FN followers and tapered lugs they have all got various amounts of the blued finish the guy I got them from recons they are Belgian made

TNAndy
January 11, 2012, 11:52
I have ten metric magazines that came with two metric FALs.

Country of origin: Unknown, but both rifles were stamped with USA distributors (Laurel, MD & Secaucus, NJ). On the other hand, the original owner was a world traveller, so who knows where these mags came from?
Markings: None whatsoever that I can find on any of them.
Bottom Tabs: Tapered with narrow oval (#4 in original post photo)
Follower: Standard FAL-both ends of spring visible (#2 in post #17 photo)
Floor Plate: Three appear to have steel Israeli type 2 floor plates (bottom row, 2nd from left in diagram from post #35); the other seven have steel FN type 2 floorplates (top row, 3rd from left in diagram from post #35)

I noticed another subtle difference in the metric beak that might be hard to recognize without two side-by-side to compare. With the mag removed from the rifle, look at the beak from the muzzle point of view, not in profile from the top or side. The three Izzy mags have a semicircle outline in the sheet metal where the other seven have a conical outline.

All three Izzy mags have a flat, charcoal grey finish. (Is this "parkerized"?) The other seven have a satin black finish that more closely matches the rifle. Two of the Izzy mags are tight enough that they won't fall free from the rifle when I press the release. All but one of the others have enough play to pop out instantly, and that one falls out if I shake it.

brunop
January 11, 2012, 13:26
How's going on ten years, Kevin? Only non-zombie/resurrection thread in history that is still alive.

NEWFNL1A1
January 20, 2012, 21:42
I f finally dug my mags out....

Reading and looking at the pics and diagrams on the 1st page:

I have some std stuff:
Some Stg 58's + 1 Austrian w/ no witness holes (SG) blued
Some G-1's w/ the 1005 number (CDNN) Lable says FN
3 nice Izzys w/ the YN mark (parked and painted) (SG)
Plus some of nice un marked mags (CDNN)


....and then this one: (the Mystery Mag) :D

Body has narrow straight tabs like a #2 but w/ a #3 base plate but the narrow oval of a # 4 base plate.

Grey Park - stamped w/ a "B" and a "C with a line above it" on the back.

It also seems to have a

3. German G1 FAL magazine follower

Any ideas what it might be and a date range?

Groza9
May 28, 2012, 20:40
This is one I found in my stash.
Standard metric pattern, front is stamped with the "UM" and "R-C 5-63", Rhodesian Constabulary, May '63?
It has an early German follower and unsure of the floorplate on it, overall about 85%.
http://s687.photobucket.com/albums/vv235/762AP2/100_1278.jpg

Ironhandjohn
January 05, 2013, 23:11
I found a couple of interesting ones in a pile of mags I traded for today. There is one marked 'X2 E1', several with a sideways 'B' or a 'B' with a 'T' or a bar underneath the B, 2 converted inch mags, several metrics with an 'X' or 'I' on the spine, and 2 very nicely blued ones.

The blued mags have a shiny polished finish inside and out, some surface rust freckling, parked followers and floorplates, and no markings that I can find. The floorplates are different on each one so I'm wondering if they're Franken-mags.

I've got them taken apart and cleaning right now so I can't post pics. Can I get an answer on where the markings that I have found are from?

Thanks!

:biggrin:

Koyotejager
January 15, 2013, 20:24
I just found the 10 new aluminum mags I bought here a few years back. There in a thick oily plastic bag that was sealed until a few minutes ago.

oddcarl
January 17, 2013, 00:18
I'll throw my rock in the well.

I wish I could remember who I bought it from:

-Supposedly SA 30 rd. Parked, "Standard FAL" follwer. Larger tapered lips. I got the mag, and noticed the floor plate was in upside down. Take it out and turn it around, "Made in USA" :rolleyes:. So no help on that front. Had a little of what I assume was the "baby poop". Very dark brown, but only one decent spot of it on the one side, which cracked, rubbed, and flaked off with use:?. No markings on the body or follower though.

- I have an Isreali mag I will dig out later.

-Supposedly Austrian mag that I got for a good deal at the gun show. No Markings, Standard follower, tapered floor-plate lips, steel FN type 2 floor-plate. Appears to have no park or bluing, just a slightly textured, eggshell finish black paint. Wore off really quick too on the edges, and where it contacts when inserting the mag.

jimmbob
January 17, 2013, 12:58
Does anyone know how to differentiate an Imbel mag from the others?

How do they compare quality/dependability wise to the Belgian and Austrian mags?

:beer:

Ironhandjohn
February 05, 2013, 17:36
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/007_zps244527ca.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/008_zpsb592a8fc.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/004_zps7cf2fe5e.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/003_zps326cbda9.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/001_zps18ff99f5.jpg

There is no evidence that this mag body ever had the big white stripe that I've seen on other EX1 mags, but it could have been refinished in the 70 years it's been floating around.

Do the floorplate and follower look like they're original pieces, or in the same time frame? I can't find any trace of a serial number, other than a '4' and a '5' below it on the spine, towards the bottom of the mag body.

IdleLayabout
May 06, 2013, 12:33
Here are mine. All steel, purchased in South Africa, suspect they are recoated ex SANDF mags, re-manufactured by Panzer Logistics.

1: 7095
2: M inside a U R-C 10-68
3: M inside a U R-C 4-69
4: M inside a U
5: No markings at all, no grinding visible

Second shot, same order, all appear to be standard followers.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7286/8713967541_b9b6599c0c_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7281/8713967501_74409f5839_z.jpg

MCASgt New River
June 02, 2018, 20:12
Yes, another thread revival! I told you all I'm here to learn. So, with that said, "Any chance the pictures could be updated from decades past so I can figure out what magazines I have?"

Thanks,
Mike in Biloxi