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LarryR
September 18, 2003, 11:33
I just got in ten of the painted mags that Tapco is selling. They're useable, but mostly ugly. Anyway, I wanted to ID them. I suspect they are Rhodesian or SA from the paint scheme, but I know there are mag experts around who can tell more. Three of them are unmarked, but the attached photo is typical of the others. What do ya think?

Peter Wells
September 19, 2003, 02:44
That certainly looks like a Rhodesian paint job (bluish green paint over tan and well used). If no green then maybe SA.

The R-C 5-63 is typical of the mags that we believe came with the SA contract, Belgian made rifles in the early 60s. The 5-63 is the month/year of mnfr.

SA made mags either did not have any markings or the 7000 type seen here. We believe all local production was sub-contracted but further details not known. When we were supplying Rhodesia with FALs they got a fun mix of SA contract rifles (crests milled out by end mill of sltightly too small diameter leaving points of the crest intact) and R1s with a real hotch-potch of mags. They then proceeded to camo them at unit level.

ps. The SA Govt is really tight lipped over Armscor matters and we may never get access to the official archives on the FN contracts and local prod etc so hard info will always present a problem.

Hope that helps.

LarryR
September 19, 2003, 14:46
Thanks Peter; I was REALLY hoping that you would jump in on this. I have an R-1 that I built up a couple of years ago that has traces of that same dark blue-green paint on the butt. I'm seriously thinking about painting it to match the mags, in a pattern similar to one of the rifles in this picture. I've already done a paint match (to the mags) and I think I can come pretty close to the right colors. Thanks again!

AseVeli
September 19, 2003, 20:47
So....Is this lower also Rhodesian??

AV

http://homepage.mac.com/sb.web/R1.jpg

Falfegnügen
September 19, 2003, 20:57
Hey Peter, I've got a SA FALO question for you. I've got a couple of those FALO's that just came in, and they appear to all have South African lowers, and Belgian barrels. Is that typical for a South African FALO?

Also, on that 30 round chrome-plated mag. I've done some careful studying, and I think that you are right, it is not chrome plated. However, it appears to be made of some type of stainless steel that will take chemical blueing, but not particularly well. Thus the patchy "washed-out" blue look.

shootist87122
September 19, 2003, 21:27
Very interesting pic LarryR. So it appears that slings were permitted for some of the troopers after all.

I have an RA marked kit that goes to Ricketts next week for a park job. It is destined for a Type II receiver to match the T2 lower, btw. I'm not sure I would trust myself to paint it, but your pic gives me ideas, it is the best example I've seen so far.

shootist87122
September 19, 2003, 21:36
AV,

I enlarged your pic and it appears the serial number has an RA prefix. According to our resident expert, Peter Wells, that stands for Rhodesian Army.

I bet it has a different SN on the other side, indicating it was re-numbered after being "acquired". Mine is electro penciled, btw.

AseVeli
September 19, 2003, 22:04
I enlarged your pic and it appears the serial number has an RA prefix. According to our resident expert, Peter Wells, that stands for Rhodesian Army.

THANK YOU!

That was a VERY pleasant surprise, I was convinced my kit was south african.......
Can't wait to put it all together, I will have to paint some parts to match....

AV

Morgans916
September 20, 2003, 08:31
WOW! I have been searching for a color pic of the Rhodesian Camo FALs. That trooper pic is excellent. Does anyone have any more color photos of the Rhodesian paint jobs?

masman
September 20, 2003, 14:11
i've seen the above and ones with a big U M WHICH if i remember correctly stands for union mettalic or something like that.i've also seen it on bayos and lowers.

shootist87122
September 21, 2003, 10:13
Peter,

What’s the story on SA produced Type IIs? It seems like quite a few of the R1/R3 kits have Type II lowers. Did Pretoria also produce matching T2 Uppers or was the lower more likely an interim production change of some sort?

Any guestimates on the serial number ranges for the Is, IIs, and IIIs?
Mine is # 272,XXX, and is a Type II. (The bolt carrier and lower are electro penciled “RA2703”.)

RV – Would you mind posting the S/N range on yours? (See if there is a number on the opposite side VS the “RA” number in your pic - your lower also appears to be a Type 2, btw. Also see if the selector marking are “S-R-A” as that would be an indication it was made in South Africa, before being sold to the Rhodies.

I know of another locally owned R1 Type 2 that I’ll try and get S/N info on.

[Sorry for the thread hijack……..well not really. :) ]

LarryR
September 21, 2003, 16:43
Morgans,

I have a few pics that I've downloaded from the web or from this site. That particular pic (from the "Echoes of an African War" website, IIRC) shows the most variety. I just looked, and their website does not currently have the full picture gallery that it used to. Do searches on the Rhodesian War and Selous Scouts and you'll find more pictures, I suspect.

In the meanwhile, here's another:

McDobber
September 22, 2003, 00:30
My Type II lower has a Serial Number of RA4XXX on it. HTH Shootist87122.

McDobber

shootist87122
September 22, 2003, 07:16
Originally posted by McDobber
My Type II lower has a Serial Number of RA4XXX on it. HTH Shootist87122.

McDobber

So it did not have an original (different) SA number on the off side?

McDobber
September 22, 2003, 13:11
No, it doesn't have a S.N. on the other side. Any ideas what that means?

McD

shootist87122
September 22, 2003, 15:45
Only a guess: Yours was originally manufactured for direct sale to the RA, and ones like mine were sold from previously issued stock or otherwise acquired.

cliffy109
September 27, 2003, 17:57
Originally posted by Morgans916
WOW! I have been searching for a color pic of the Rhodesian Camo FALs. That trooper pic is excellent. Does anyone have any more color photos of the Rhodesian paint jobs?

You might want to buy the book "Fireforce" by Chris Cocks. Lots of good pics, but only 2 in color of the rifles. This pic was also posted at ar15.com, along with the one above. Not too much detail on the camo, but notice the one iwth the 18" barrel. Its the only one I've ever seen.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=726535

shootist87122
September 27, 2003, 21:36
Can't see the stock, but I'm guessing it's a Para.

AseVeli
September 27, 2003, 21:55
Originally posted by Peter Wells
That certainly looks like a Rhodesian paint job (bluish green paint over tan and well used). If no green then maybe SA.


Mine has those colors, but in reverse.
tan over green, different greens, and also some more tan over the whole mess...:D :D

Later

AV

cliffy109
September 28, 2003, 13:23
Originally posted by shootist87122
Can't see the stock, but I'm guessing it's a Para.

I thought so to, but take a closer look. You can see the sling swivel at the top, just behind his right elbow. Its a standard stock.

shootist87122
September 28, 2003, 13:59
Yep, I see it now. You will hence forth be known as Hawk Eye. ;)

LarryR
October 03, 2003, 16:05
OK, I have the colors pretty well matched. The two mags on the left are original, the two on the right have my paint job. I think I'm ready to do the whole rifle.

LarryR
October 03, 2003, 16:06
Other side.

shootist87122
October 03, 2003, 17:52
Outstanding matchup - (only Memorex would know which was the copy).

What type paint and colors are you using?

LarryR
October 03, 2003, 19:26
Patience, my friend! Let me do the rifle first, then, if it still looks like the pics, I'll divulge. What I have right now is a latex and is not going to be very durable, but I figure that'll just make it look more authentic. It'll be a few days.

shootist87122
October 03, 2003, 22:20
That's what I thought. In any event if you don't like it, it will be easy to remove and start over. Keep us posted.