Entreprise receivers? The Collection Sticky! [Archive] - Page 2

GUN SNOB

October 06, 2006, 13:46

If you keep buying from a company that has been this below average (nices way I can put it.) then thay will never improve, thay wont have to.

This isint there first rodeo and these problems arnt new. Time hasent fixed it yet and the furture looks like more of the same.

The American industrys use to be the top of the line, we the consumers began puting up with more and more crap and less and less quality and never demanded any loylitys to us (the consumer) the ****rys econimie (out sorsing) or the ****ry its self (off shore banking).

If this below average behavure is exceptable to you then please feel free to do buisness with them. IMO a crappy product, service and the added insults that started this thread are enuff that I will continue to do buisness some were else.
This wav ,I may not be part of the solution but I dont feed the problem.

Dont just buy American, buy quality American. Reward the people that are taking care of you and the crap companys will step up or fall buy the waist side. Good ridionce to bad rubbish.

AZMyrmidon

October 06, 2006, 13:59

Personally, I think someone should go hunt for some investment capital, open their own forge and start making their own stuff putting people to work. I don't care about whose name's on it. All these small shops clearly don't meet the demand of the market and with cad/cam production, entire American made FALs could hit the market new at $600.00 each with the workers making them earning a living wage. One of the problems I could foresse is what are you going to call an "American FAL"?

Fortis!
AZ Myrmidon

Palerider

October 06, 2006, 18:32

Originally posted by AZMyrmidon
~~$600.00 each~~
Just a few months ago I had 2 Seq.#'s Imbels for sale at that same price.

ftierson

October 06, 2006, 19:35

Originally posted by Palerider

Just a few months ago I had 2 Seq.#'s Imbels for sale at that same price.

Actually, AZMyrmidon was talking about $600 for the entire rifle, not just the receiver...

Forrest

MikeC

October 06, 2006, 20:39

AZ Myrmidon, hmm, DSA sells about 1200-1500 rifles a year. They can't sell them for $600 per rifle. Heck, take a look at some of the AR makers. EVEN with the mass production of those things they go up and over $1,000. Compare the price of AR receiver to a good US FAL receiver.

AZMyrmidon

October 06, 2006, 20:54

Well, just a few thoughts as to address why the market is underacheiving:
1). Marketing is lousy.
2). No standardized American FAL
3). Buyers face stigma of ownership or bad legislation threat.
4). No place to shoot.
5). Needs to be included in High Power matches.
6). Shooting public not educated on BATTLE vs "assault" rifle.
7). Probable customer base not in price range..
8). Receivables structure of sales too rigid.
9). People should learn how to shoot.
10). Public should be encouraged to shoot and learn shooting skills as excellent hobby and sport, definitely more beneficial than something as useless as golf.

As far as as marginal costs not allowing profitability. Modern facillities with their own forge akin to a cad/cam Springfield Armory of yore would lower costs quicker and allow manufacturers to achieve scale/scope economies. But you have to have an educated and accepting market and good marketing. With cad/cam, machines can do most of the labour intensive work, with only final fit and finish necessary by hand. So, say, a plant along the lines of an updated Ilion, NY or Hartford, CT built in a place with low costs which is not anti-gun with decent technical schools for a competent workforce, say in Alabama or Mississippi or Oklahoma or even Utah can make this a possibility. The technology is there to where this can be cost effective.

Fortis!
AZ Myrmidon

Unaware any FAL manufacturer having problems.

pryde

October 15, 2006, 15:31

Add to that:
The cheap surplus parts market is drying up.
Whats the point in ivesting massive amounts of capital to make receivers when in two years there wont be any parts left to put on those receivers?

Either that or the FAL will start becoming a $1k+ gun with new manufactured parts and people will just go "might as well buy an M1a!!!".

*sigh*

AndyC

October 15, 2006, 15:39

Good point - sure hope that won't be the case, though. Would hate to see the FAL "fall" by the wayside :sad:

W.E.G.

October 15, 2006, 15:51

Hold onto your FAL's.

That $600 Rifle will be a $1500+ rifle soon enough.

Moreover, FAL's are generally more user-maintainable than a lot of the oddball semi-auto's that drift through. So, just as a shooter, a FAL is going to have greater utility than a lot of other stuff. The FAL will always be more than just a rich man's "hey-look-at-what-I-got-geegaw."

Nothing wrong with M1A's either. But, it would be false to say that the M1A is the model of perfection.

Pistolwiz

October 15, 2006, 15:53

Fact is that the FAL market is much smaller to begin with compared to the M1A market overall. And compared to the AR market..Well, Let's just say the FAL market is itty bitty compared to the AR market. Many of the reasons that AZMyrmidon pointed out are truly factors contributing to the FAL market staying small and shrinking. The good 'ol days of cheap kits and plentiful parts is sunsetting. Parts are drying up and the costs are climbing. It's not far off where the cost of making a US FAL to compete with DSA is a possibility. But I doubt it. Expenses for tooling up and the amortization of the return don't match up. Unless the market expands considerably with a big marketing campaign backed by big bucks from another manufacturer. That's why you don't see a larger selection of Inch US 922R parts. Small market...Small return/too much time for the return. Better get what you can while you still can. Once DSA has no competition (Kit builders) you can bet that FAL's will be even more expensive than an M1A across the board. I'd bet by 2009 a later model Century FAL will fetch $1,000 or more. But to tool up and build a US FAL will require a market willing to pay upwards of $2000.00+ for a base model by that time. Will the FAL market be legislated into the dust of history? Or will it die on it's own for lack of a dynamic and growing market? We'll see! :(

ftierson

October 15, 2006, 18:06

And, keeping in the spirit of this thread, if Entreprise was the only manufacturer of FAL receivers, I'd build and shoot a BM-59 instead...

Or maybe a black powder rifle, and I'm not a fan of black powder rifles...

If you catch my drift...

Forrest

sigslipper

October 15, 2006, 23:12

Hi, folks.

I am not a troll. Actually, I'm quite the anti-troll.

I also have a dog in this fight. I have met Lily, who appears to have a great part in running the show at Entreprise, in person. I happen to like her. She is a petite, crisp, cheerful individual who did not try to BS me. While I cannot say that she has completely gained my trust yet, I would not hesitate to do business with her. In other words, she is good people. Because I like her, I'm going to write a few words, a few of my own opinons. YMMV, I'm just telling it as I see it.

I have also met one of their gunsmiths, a scruffy looking fellow. He was not fluent in English (he was south of the border, don't know how far south), but clearly knowledgable and helpful.

Entreprise Arms is located in a large warehouse-like structure several miles down Irwindale Blvd (?) south of the 210 Freeway in Azusa, CA. They have a VERY small storefront (think of a nice sized kitchen) in which they display some IMBEL, STG, & wood FALS. There are also the usual LE crap, and a very limited selection of SIGs with CTs. No one works the counter - when you ring the doorbell a couple of them come out and let you in.

A whole bunch of parts kits are on the floor. On my first visit, they gave me a pair of gloves and invited me to dig through their parts. I spent over an hour talking and fiddling, and no one ever made me feel like I wasn't welcome even though I consciously knew that I was taking up more time than I needed. I wanted to see if they'd belittle my tire-kicking. They didn't. I put that bore light down at least ten or twelve barrels and an older white gentleman who works the counter (the only one who didn't seem to know all that much about guns) even offered to help me hold the upper.

I asked Lily how much the SIGs were. She told me the price (average for CA) and suggested that if I wanted to save some money it might be better to buy it online and have them transfer it for $30 (a very fair price for CA).

I bought an IMBEL kit for 149$, in about 85% condition.

When I next returned, I wanted to look at their complete rifles. I was offered an IMBEL FAL 21" on a TYPE 3 (blocky) EAI receiver, 922R compliant (frankly, whether they are "real" or not matters to me - as long as I have proof that I believe I bought 922R parts it's not my problem), muzzle break or flash hider, CA-legal (magazine release replaced with fixed one), for $799. An STG-58 on a Type 1 EAI is $1100, 18.5" barrel.

I met another gentleman, whose name I did not remember to ask. He seemed to be fairly knowledgeable but not as knowledgeable or as crisp as Lily. He and I did get into a good conversation about the CZ-52. Somewhere in there I mentioned I was 03 FFL and suggested they build Suomis and PPSH-41s. They said they'd look into that. Lily also showed me some 1911s that they are building. The look serviceable but rather rough on the edges, definitely not Kimber. The price is probably however much lower. Think that Phillipines company (Rock Island?).

I bought an IMBEL CAL-FAL for $799, $895 OTD. I was assured that the gun would be accurate enough, and that I should be able to get 2 MOA or less. That is acceptable for me in a gun that cost less than $900 OTD.

...

Ultimately, I believe that Entreprise is a small company (as arms manufacturers go) that makes a good product. Not an excellent product, a good product. I believe that Lily at least is forthcoming and good to do business with; time will tell if I can say the same of the others.

When I next visit, I will ask them in person what their stand is on this whole Mike Meyer fiasco. I have seen this kind of thing happen MANY times (the last one I can think of is a certain knife company whose OTF switchblades were all the rage until he stuck a certain appendage in his mouth...) and I hope that EAI disavows, apologies without reservation, and promises to produce excellent product and customer care in the future.

When I pick up my rifle I will post an in-depth review with pictures. I am an amatuer gunsmith and will welcome any real gunsmith's questions as long as he/she gives me instructions on how to find the answers.

....

Final note. I have noticed through many years of teaching at both college and high schools that people are incredibly, intrinsically sensitive to challenges to their ability to speak, mainly because a person's difficulty to communicate fluenty is often unfairly seen as an indicator of their ability to be human.

I urge all to be equally sensitive when making direct or oblique comparisons between language fluency and any other capability.

Kevin
www.thehighroad.org senior member
03 FFL / NRA
always broke cruffler

gunplumber

October 16, 2006, 10:14

(from the other entreprise thread you started)

I am interested in quality FAL products. Not, (to paraphrase Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge) to take long warm showers with them. I don't care if Lily is a cute, bubbly, hot little number, or if Howard is suave and deboner.

"Entre'prise" as a corporate entity, represented by a number of different people under real or fake names, has lied consistently, produced products with erratic quality control, and had dismal customer service and customer relations.

Their lawyer (as a curious side note, also related to both Christian media and Pornography) threatened, intimidated, and mocked FalFiles members legitimate concerns.

In my opinion, the most serious strike against them, and one which they have refused to address, is selling imported parts that had been engraved "EAI" and representing them as US made - your "frankly, whether they are "real" or not matters to me - as long as I have proof that I believe I bought 922R parts it's not my problem" is an interesting position to take. You don't care if you are cheated and defrauded?

I do not benefit from a company making shoddy products. I make money building and customizing FALs (among other things) and the more FAL parts and accessories that are available, the more opportunities that will be available to me. That is why I provided ORF with numerous FAL technical specifications and prints, even though Todd and I have had some serious disagreements in the past. I want good products on the market.

But with EAI's long history of shoddy parts, crappy service, and institutional dishonesty, its going to take a lot more than impressing a starry-eyed self-professed ametuer to fix whats broke.

ftierson

October 16, 2006, 13:33

And, until now, I didn't know that Mikey was the current 'owner' of Entreprise...

So he even lied about moving on to greener pastures.

That double does it for me...

Bye, bye, Mikey...

Forrest

(See James's comment about Mikey's ownership of Entreprise here

Entreprise (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182175)

Edited to add: Linkee no workee because original thread was deleted by sigslipper...

sigslipper

October 16, 2006, 20:43

I'm not ticked off. Really, I'm not.

I'll try to answer in the order and manner received.

1. If Mike Meyer is the owner, he's the most Chinese-looking "Meyer" I've ever seen in my life. Both Lily and the other person who seem to be in charge are quite decidedly non-Meyer looking or Bevery Hills attorney sounding. Then again, perhaps he went into hiding as he saw me coming. :tongue:

2. Calling someone you don't know a "starry-eyed self-professed amatuer" is akin to me calling you "arrogant, bombastic loudmouth with a curious fixation on Christianity and pornography". I didn't write a post to insult your ability to build guns. Why insult my ability to be rational?

And good god, are you implying that I'm attracted to her? Petite does not mean "hot little number" where I come from... then again maybe we see a lot more christianity and pornography than you get to. :tongue:

I honestly don't care if someone sells me a 922R part that is a re-manufactured foreign part. If it weren't for the stupid sec 922 law, I would actually PREFER the original parts to any DSA remake. Further, where exactly is the line between material and end product? If adding duracoat to my Russian SKS makes it lose its "sporting purposes" status, why shouldn't repainting and restamping an IMBEL floorplate make it lose its foreign import clause status as well?

If I paid for a 922R compliant part, and got a 922R compliant part, why would I feel defrauded? Now if I had SPECIFICALLY wanted a DSA floorplate and gotten a restamped IMBEL plate, then I might have grounds for complaint.

Ultimately, I don't give a crap if Entreprise's staff likes to thump bibles while gyrating atop poorly greased stripper poles. When I receive my FAL in a few days, I will be sending it to professional credentialed gunsmith for review. If it's a shoddy piece of poo, I'll describe why and how bad it smells. If it's kosher, I'll buy another and wag my tongue and ears at the folks who paid $1500 for a DSA.

ps: It's "debonair", not "deboner". Tsk, tsk, freudian faux pas? :wink:

pryde

October 16, 2006, 20:52

What I don't understand is,
If its true that Howard has given up all his stake in the company and Mike is running the show, why is it that Howard's wife and brother are still managing the company?

I wouldn't be surprised if Howard wanted people to think that someone else was making the decisions so he can defer blame for when bad things happen.

ftierson

October 16, 2006, 22:07

Originally posted by sigslipper
II honestly don't care if someone sells me a 922R part that is a re-manufactured foreign part. If it weren't for the stupid sec 922 law, I would actually PREFER the original parts to any DSA remake. Further, where exactly is the line between material and end product? If adding duracoat to my Russian SKS makes it lose its "sporting purposes" status, why shouldn't repainting and restamping an IMBEL floorplate make it lose its foreign import clause status as well?

If I paid for a 922R compliant part, and got a 922R compliant part, why would I feel defrauded? Now if I had SPECIFICALLY wanted a DSA floorplate and gotten a restamped IMBEL plate, then I might have grounds for complaint.

Ultimately, I don't give a crap if Entreprise's staff likes to thump bibles while gyrating atop poorly greased stripper poles. When I receive my FAL in a few days, I will be sending it to professional credentialed gunsmith for review. If it's a shoddy piece of poo, I'll describe why and how bad it smells. If it's kosher, I'll buy another and wag my tongue and ears at the folks who paid $1500 for a DSA.

Actually, sigslipper, as much as it may be difficult for you to understand, some of us do care about the honesty and ethics of those we do business with...

From this post, I have a feeling that you might be happier hanging out over on warrifles...

Forrest

GUN SNOB

October 16, 2006, 22:36

Buying a rifle from a company that specalises in building them should not requier a second oppinion from a reputable gunsmith. Sounds like you may smell a turd allready.

Aint it a shame that you cant trust the product to go to the range after there qualified gunsmith got done building it.

ftierson

October 17, 2006, 02:32

Originally posted by sigslipper
Hi, folks.

I am not a troll. Actually, I'm quite the anti-troll.

I also have a dog in this fight. I have met Lily, who appears to have a great part in running the show at Entreprise, in person. I happen to like her. She is a petite, crisp, cheerful individual who did not try to BS me. While I cannot say that she has completely gained my trust yet, I would not hesitate to do business with her. In other words, she is good people. Because I like her, I'm going to write a few words, a few of my own opinons. YMMV, I'm just telling it as I see it.

I have also met one of their gunsmiths, a scruffy looking fellow. He was not fluent in English (he was south of the border, don't know how far south), but clearly knowledgable and helpful.

Entreprise Arms is located in a large warehouse-like structure several miles down Irwindale Blvd (?) south of the 210 Freeway in Azusa, CA. They have a VERY small storefront (think of a nice sized kitchen) in which they display some IMBEL, STG, & wood FALS. There are also the usual LE crap, and a very limited selection of SIGs with CTs. No one works the counter - when you ring the doorbell a couple of them come out and let you in.

A whole bunch of parts kits are on the floor. On my first visit, they gave me a pair of gloves and invited me to dig through their parts. I spent over an hour talking and fiddling, and no one ever made me feel like I wasn't welcome even though I consciously knew that I was taking up more time than I needed. I wanted to see if they'd belittle my tire-kicking. They didn't. I put that bore light down at least ten or twelve barrels and an older white gentleman who works the counter (the only one who didn't seem to know all that much about guns) even offered to help me hold the upper.

I asked Lily how much the SIGs were. She told me the price (average for CA) and suggested that if I wanted to save some money it might be better to buy it online and have them transfer it for $30 (a very fair price for CA).

I bought an IMBEL kit for 149$, in about 85% condition.

When I next returned, I wanted to look at their complete rifles. I was offered an IMBEL FAL 21" on a TYPE 3 (blocky) EAI receiver, 922R compliant (frankly, whether they are "real" or not matters to me - as long as I have proof that I believe I bought 922R parts it's not my problem), muzzle break or flash hider, CA-legal (magazine release replaced with fixed one), for $799. An STG-58 on a Type 1 EAI is $1100, 18.5" barrel.

I met another gentleman, whose name I did not remember to ask. He seemed to be fairly knowledgeable but not as knowledgeable or as crisp as Lily. He and I did get into a good conversation about the CZ-52. Somewhere in there I mentioned I was 03 FFL and suggested they build Suomis and PPSH-41s. They said they'd look into that. Lily also showed me some 1911s that they are building. The look serviceable but rather rough on the edges, definitely not Kimber. The price is probably however much lower. Think that Phillipines company (Rock Island?).

I bought an IMBEL CAL-FAL for $799, $895 OTD. I was assured that the gun would be accurate enough, and that I should be able to get 2 MOA or less. That is acceptable for me in a gun that cost less than $900 OTD.

...

Ultimately, I believe that Entreprise is a small company (as arms manufacturers go) that makes a good product. Not an excellent product, a good product. I believe that Lily at least is forthcoming and good to do business with; time will tell if I can say the same of the others.

When I next visit, I will ask them in person what their stand is on this whole Mike Meyer fiasco. I have seen this kind of thing happen MANY times (the last one I can think of is a certain knife company whose OTF switchblades were all the rage until he stuck a certain appendage in his mouth...) and I hope that EAI disavows, apologies without reservation, and promises to produce excellent product and customer care in the future.

When I pick up my rifle I will post an in-depth review with pictures. I am an amatuer gunsmith and will welcome any real gunsmith's questions as long as he/she gives me instructions on how to find the answers.

....

Final note. I have noticed through many years of teaching at both college and high schools that people are incredibly, intrinsically sensitive to challenges to their ability to speak, mainly because a person's difficulty to communicate fluenty is often unfairly seen as an indicator of their ability to be human.

I urge all to be equally sensitive when making direct or oblique comparisons between language fluency and any other capability.

Kevin
www.thehighroad.org senior member
03 FFL / NRA
always broke cruffler

By the way, sig...

ftierson

October 17, 2006, 02:37

Originally posted by sigslipper
I'm not ticked off. Really, I'm not.

I'll try to answer in the order and manner received.

1. If Mike Meyer is the owner, he's the most Chinese-looking "Meyer" I've ever seen in my life. Both Lily and the other person who seem to be in charge are quite decidedly non-Meyer looking or Bevery Hills attorney sounding. Then again, perhaps he went into hiding as he saw me coming. :tongue:

2. Calling someone you don't know a "starry-eyed self-professed amatuer" is akin to me calling you "arrogant, bombastic loudmouth with a curious fixation on Christianity and pornography". I didn't write a post to insult your ability to build guns. Why insult my ability to be rational?

And good god, are you implying that I'm attracted to her? Petite does not mean "hot little number" where I come from... then again maybe we see a lot more christianity and pornography than you get to. :tongue:

I honestly don't care if someone sells me a 922R part that is a re-manufactured foreign part. If it weren't for the stupid sec 922 law, I would actually PREFER the original parts to any DSA remake. Further, where exactly is the line between material and end product? If adding duracoat to my Russian SKS makes it lose its "sporting purposes" status, why shouldn't repainting and restamping an IMBEL floorplate make it lose its foreign import clause status as well?

If I paid for a 922R compliant part, and got a 922R compliant part, why would I feel defrauded? Now if I had SPECIFICALLY wanted a DSA floorplate and gotten a restamped IMBEL plate, then I might have grounds for complaint.

Ultimately, I don't give a crap if Entreprise's staff likes to thump bibles while gyrating atop poorly greased stripper poles. When I receive my FAL in a few days, I will be sending it to professional credentialed gunsmith for review. If it's a shoddy piece of poo, I'll describe why and how bad it smells. If it's kosher, I'll buy another and wag my tongue and ears at the folks who paid $1500 for a DSA.

ps: It's "debonair", not "deboner". Tsk, tsk, freudian faux pas? :wink:

In these two posts, you missed the main point of this thread, which has to do with the quality of Entreprise receivers supplied to 'home builders.'

And with Mikey's comments about our abilities to take their (Entreprise's) product and build rifles on it...

Although you should feel free to comment on how your new Entreprise built rifle turns out, it still doesn't help the rest of this situation out much...

Forrest

gunplumber

October 17, 2006, 10:53

2. Calling someone you don't know a "starry-eyed self-professed amatuer" . .. . . .

I am an amatuer gunsmith and will welcome any real gunsmith's questions

As my 11 year old would say . . . "Well DUH!"

You do not consider yourself a real gunsmith. I have no opinion on the subject, I was quoting you. The starry-eyed part is my description of your trip to Disneyland - whoops, I mean Entre'prise - which was a lot of fluff and no substance.

Why insult my ability to be rational?

You do that yourself, don't seem to need my help.

I honestly don't care if someone sells me a 922R part that is a re-manufactured foreign part.

Now we are "remanufactured" - a technical term in excise tax law. Before it was frankly, whether they are "real" or not [doesn't] matter to me

"Frankly" (does that mean you usually obfuscate, and this is an exception?) You have lost all credibility when you try to explain away blatant, criminal fraud.

why shouldn't repainting and restamping an IMBEL floorplate make it lose its foreign import clause status as well?

I suppose what I left in the toilet started as a 12" spicy italian on honey oat bread with the works. Would you like to buy the "remanufactured" version?

Gone from a "ho hum . .. whatever" to a rather technical analysis. Interesting - pick a role to play - the newbie or the knowledgeable pretending to be a newbie. Just what is your relationship to Entre'prise. Did Entre'prise hire you to attempt damage control?

Ultimately, I don't give a crap if Entreprise's staff likes to thump bibles while gyrating atop poorly greased stripper poles. When I receive my FAL in a few days, I will be sending it to professional credentialed gunsmith for review.

I don't either - I just find the dichotomy curious.

For one who seems so up on the ins and outs of 922, you should also know there is no credentialling body for gunsmiths..

And just for the fun of stirring the pot, here's another lame rambling from you.

While I cannot say that she has completely gained my trust yet, I would not hesitate to do business with her.

Interesting. Are there any other companies you don't trust that you won't hesitate to do business with?

In other words, she is good people. Because I like her, I'm going to write a few words

You don't trust her, but she's good people.

Yes, I can see how you are sensitive about your ability to be rational.

Why insult my ability to be rational?

Because its soooooo easy .. . .. .

ftierson

October 17, 2006, 19:07

Originally posted by sigslipper
ps: It's "debonair", not "deboner".

And, yeah, Mark, it's debonair and not deboner...

(I'm sorry, I can't help it but I find that comment particularily funny. And 'ole sigslipper didn't even get it...:))

Forrest

gunsmith_tony

October 17, 2006, 19:23

So...all this stuff means exactly what? I really couldn't care less who the current "Ringmaster" is. I'm still not going back to that circus regardless. Same-same.

Sounded like he said boner...hehe he hehehe hehe he hehe hehe

gunplumber

October 17, 2006, 19:52

Originally posted by ftierson

And, yeah, Mark, it's debonair and not deboner...

(I'm sorry, I can't help it but I find that comment particularily funny. And 'ole sigslipper didn't even get it...:))

Forrest

It sounds better spoken. Instead of "suave and debonair" Its "swave and deboner" - From Berke Breathed - an old Opus/Bill the Cat exchange .. .

DOCLOVE

October 17, 2006, 23:19

I awake most mornings with "DEBONER".

fry

October 18, 2006, 00:20

i am glad this thread has come full circle jerk pitching a tent

ftierson

October 18, 2006, 14:23

Originally posted by gunplumber
Gone from a "ho hum . .. whatever" to a rather technical analysis. Interesting - pick a role to play - the newbie or the knowledgeable pretending to be a newbie. Just what is your relationship to Entre'prise. Did Entre'prise hire you to attempt damage control?

Frankly (:)), I'd like to know the answers to these questions too...

And I'd also like to know why you (sigslipper) visited Entreprise a couple of times to test their reactions (as you reported in your posts)...

Just curious...

Forrest

adam762

October 19, 2006, 14:44

Enterprise needs a good tornado.

sigslipper

October 20, 2006, 20:51

Sorry, was away for a while.

Nope, not related to Entreprise in anyway. Just a buyer. Not even sure why I am arguing for a reexamination of the company's products. I suppose at heart I feel an inexplicable need to defend it since it's californian and in my neighborhood (sort of).

Gunplumber, you are one really belligerent intellectual. You really like to pick fights, don't you? Notice I haven't made any insulting comment about you yet you've already called me "starry-eyed" "lame" and about two steps short of a lair / troll. Oh, I suppose I did suggest that you had an unhealthy obsession over christianity / pornography, but that was in good humor.

Ah, but not anymore. Now I see you're just a gun shop jerk. Kind of like the comic book shop guy in the simpsons, only that your feelings of superiority are based on your gunsmithing experience.

Oh, but that would be ad hominem. No, I don't think I'm going to get in an internet argument with you. Part of me really wants to go over your comments to point out your illogical comparisons, your poor understanding of my post's intent, and overall lack of any courtesy at all, but that would be just giving you something to get your panties all up in a bunch about again. I guess I'll just ignore your comments until you start being more civil.

as to why i'm having it looked by a credentialed (in that sense, btw, I mean that he has credentials... perhaps not like my teaching license or handgun license, but either went to trade school, apprenticeship, etc.) gunsmith -

well, first of all...

ANY gun built off of old military surplus parts should be checked for headspace, etc. Even if the god of guns handed me a rifle I'd look it over closely before firing. As a C&R I've bought many guns that were "excellent" and "perfect condition" only to find improper headspace, missing pins, and bulged barrels.

but most of all...

because i want stuff done to it anyway (trigger job, etc), so I might as well have him give me his .02.

One last comment:
Interesting - pick a role to play - the newbie or the knowledgeable pretending to be a newbie.
Humility should not be confused with ignorance.

sigslipper

October 20, 2006, 20:55

why the entreprise visits

i bought a rifle there, remember? i'm still waiting on the 10 day. and it is after all very close to where I shoot.

ftierson

October 20, 2006, 21:51

Originally posted by sigslipper
A whole bunch of parts kits are on the floor. On my first visit, they gave me a pair of gloves and invited me to dig through their parts. I spent over an hour talking and fiddling, and no one ever made me feel like I wasn't welcome even though I consciously knew that I was taking up more time than I needed. I wanted to see if they'd belittle my tire-kicking. They didn't. I put that bore light down at least ten or twelve barrels and an older white gentleman who works the counter (the only one who didn't seem to know all that much about guns) even offered to help me hold the upper.

sigslipper,

My earlier comment was directed at this. I was just wondering why the 'test.'

Forrest

gunsmith_tony

October 20, 2006, 22:50

Originally posted by adam762
Enterprise needs a good tornado. Or a corporate enema.

AND a tornado.

gunplumber

October 21, 2006, 09:50

Originally posted by sigslipper
Gunplumber, you are one really belligerent intellectual. You really like to pick fights, don't you? Notice I haven't made any insulting comment about you yet you've already called me "starry-eyed" "lame" and about two steps short of a lair / troll. Oh, I suppose I did suggest that you had an unhealthy obsession over christianity / pornography, but that was in good humor.

Ah, but not anymore. Now I see you're just a gun shop jerk. Kind of like the comic book shop guy in the simpsons, only that your feelings of superiority are based on your gunsmithing experience.

Oh, but that would be ad hominem. No, I don't think I'm going to get in an internet argument with you. Part of me really wants to go over your comments to point out your illogical comparisons, your poor understanding of my post's intent, and overall lack of any courtesy at all, but that would be just giving you something to get your panties all up in a bunch about again. I guess I'll just ignore your comments until you start being more civil.

Ahh - the old "you're mean!" defense. Sorry, it doesn't work around these parts. Avoiding a serious issue by pretending indignation with the questioner is just that - avoidance. Chick's are pretty good at that . .. .

Man: Why did you spend our savings on new shoes?

Chick: You're mean - you don't love me anymore

Man: Why did you spend our savings on new shoes?

Chick: My mother warned me you'd be like this. - I should have known you were an abuser.

Gunplumber: Why are you defending Criminal Fraud

Sig SLipper: You're mean

Gunplumber: Why are you defending criminal fraud?

SigSLipper: You are so belligerant, my mother warned me about abusers like you.

Gunplumber: Why are you defending Criminal Fraud?

Sigslipper: You're a mean and nasty man.

Yeah - we've seen it before.

You come here acting liking a novice who just discovered how wonderful Entre'prise is, and how you can't possibly comprehend why there would be any animosity toward them, yet you VOLUNTEERED that you didn't care if the 922 parts were really US Made or criminal fraud, and nobody should worry about it anyway.,

Something smells rotten in Denmark.

sigslipper

October 21, 2006, 11:22

You're an idiot who is so badly caught up in his own vitriol that he cannot stand to have another person voice an opinion.

I am trying to review a current product from Entreprise, an IMBEL FAL. You, however, are more interested in continuing your diatribe. You fail to understand a central point of my work in progress - How does a $900 Ent. FAL stand up to a $1600 DSA FAL?

In my review I am addressing neither stripped receivers or parts kits. My description of the place was only that - a description. No one else here has posted a visit to Entreprise.

...

But since I've been stupid enough to let myself be dragged into an argument with you, let's discuss the subject of floorplates.

I restate my argument first: Further, where exactly is the line between material and end product? If adding duracoat to my Russian SKS makes it lose its "sporting purposes" status, why shouldn't repainting and restamping an IMBEL floorplate make it lose its foreign import clause status as well?

You reply: I suppose what I left in the toilet started as a 12" spicy italian on honey oat bread with the works. Would you like to buy the "remanufactured" version?

Sure, if you could pop out something I actually wanted out of your bunghole other than the same crap you've been spewing. If Entreprise promised 922 legal floorplates, and delivered 922 legal floorplates, I don't feel cheated at all. Oh, but you don't actually address that, you just scream "CRIMINAL FRAUD!" as many times as possible - so therefore it must be that.

I'm not defending criminal fraud. I'm arguing that there WAS NO criminal fraud in the first place. If the EAI floorplates will hold up in court as 922 compliant (and I suspect they will), where's the fraud? Did they promise you DSA plates? TAPCO? No? I didn't think so. Are the floorplates inferior? Do they not work? No? I didn't think so, either.

-IF- and this hasn't been proven yet - IF EAI did recoat and restamp IMBEL plates, this is not criminal fraud but a brilliant use of a 922R loophole. Just like the SU-16 uses the CA loopholes, the 90s ARs and AKs used the AWB and CA-AWB "off-list" loopholes.
....

I NEVER said that I don't understand why people are upset at Entreprise. I did however say that MY OWN experience left me little to be upset about. I also STATED that I don't (and still don't) care if my floorplates are new manufacture or not as long as they PROTECT ME FROM 922R PROSECUTION. Why can't you get that through your thick skull?

As for chicks... (why bring your experiences into this) ... You're not a mean man, you're an net jerk who can't be civil. It's not a defense, it's an observation. Get a chick that you don't mind buying shoes for, and keep your personal invective to yourself.

gunplumber

October 21, 2006, 11:43

OK then, your message is clear - thank you

You believe that Entreprise taking a beat-up surplus imported floorplate and engraving it "EAI" and selling it as a NEW US MADE part is perfectly reasonable..

Myself, well, I disagree.

Given your position on their US parts, I think any review you may write to be of dubious value.

My position is that the major issue with Entreprise is not the haphazard quality of their products, but the institutional integrity of the company. This lack of integrity is not something that can be "fixed" by changing a few lines of code on a CNC machine.

Your ardent support of what myself and others consider to be blatant fraud does not gain points for Entreprise. To the contrary, it establishes you as one with compromised values and marginalizes anything you have to say.

Ok then - we've dealt with Mikey and with Sig Slipper - Who's next? C'mon Howard, how fine are the Emeror's new clothes?

sigslipper

October 21, 2006, 15:08

You believe that Entreprise taking a beat-up surplus imported floorplate and engraving it "EAI" and selling it as a NEW US MADE part is perfectly reasonable..

I don't know what it was sold as. I didn't buy one. Before I bought my rifle, I never even heard of Entreprise. You also haven't said before the plates were beat up - indeed, you wrote that they'd been coated black. Now they're beat-up? YES, for the record - when I build my FAL, if I choose to buy from Entreprise a 922R plate and discover that it's an IMBEL coated & stamped - I won't feel cheated. Indeed, I'd prefer to keep as many IMBEL parts as possible AS LONG AS I HAVE DOCUMENTATION THAT I BOUGHT A 922R PART.

After all, of all people, we gun owners should know that language is often highly variable. How many times have you bought 'EXCELLENT' guns that you felt were 'GOOD'? How many times have we seen 'UNISSUED' guns that another would call 'REARSENALED'? 'NEW' opposed to 'NEW OLD STOCK'? Or, as in this case, 'US MADE' parts that were 'US REMANUFACTURED'?

Do I think that EAI restamped and painted floor plates? I don't know. I'll ask when I pick up my gun. But to me there's a difference between cheating someone and using a law loophole.

In the end, I suppose the major difference between you and I is this - I'm writing to review a rifle I bought, you're here to continue preaching about your perceived dishonesty.

You suggest that my posts have dubious value? perhaps. Ok. You don't have to read it. But then again, you're really just here for the argument, aren't you?

Finally, this really sums up your problem:

Your ardent support of what myself and others consider to be blatant fraud does not gain points for Entreprise.

You seem to think that I am defending Enterprise. Therefore, you have displaced all of your anger toward Mikey (who was a worse idiot than you... I will also ask about him, too) towards me.

I AM NOT DEFENDING ENTREPRISE. I couldn't care less if they use forced political prisoner labor in China to build their rifles. I couldn't care less if they are Amish separatists who flog themselves after every impure thought. If they collapse spectacularly tomorrow I will only feel a slight pang of regret at the passing of a CA firearms company.

The only thing I am writing about is a review of my rifle and my experience.

Your insinuation that I am working for Entreprise is absurd. Why me? I don't have any reputation to speak of around here. My words don't carry much weight. Besides, as long as they can keep selling (assuming that they are decent) IMBEL CA-FALs for $900, Californians alone will keep them in business. There's no competition for them here. All the other importers left after the Clinton ban & AW bans.

Besides, what do you think I'm working for? Certainly, my few posts now and then would never get me a salary. Perhaps I'm working for floorplates?

AZMyrmidon

October 21, 2006, 15:17

Well, I won't be doing builds with entreprise receivers any longer. DSA, in its professionalism and care for its customer base as well its market leading quality and innovation has got me hooked, even for $200.00 more. You get what you pay for.

Fortis!
AZ Myrmidon

No calls or contacts here. Entreprise's failure to actually come in here and be professional and do the right thing with a mea culpa or 2 just leaves everyone with the impression of how unprofessional they are. Their condescension and arrogance to their customer base leaves it dealing with the fact that they don't want to take the time to establish good faith with their clientele. How sad.

gunplumber

October 21, 2006, 16:35

Damn Slipper - shouldn't you READ a thread before posting to it? From the 2nd page of this thread:

Would you consider Entre'prise taking surplus import floorplates, engraving them "EAI ", spraypainting them black and selling them as US made 922 compliant parts to be a "goof"?

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/webpictures/faleaifloorplate.jpg [/QUOTE]

your assertion that you don't care if Entreprise is dishonest does not enhance your credibility as a reviewer.

pryde

October 21, 2006, 19:01

How come everyone is always bringing up how Entreprise remarked floorplates and followers? Is this not the same thing as DSA selling cut down stolls as "US made" flashhiders? How come that is never brought up?

Both are equally dishonest. The difference is that Entreprise no longer marks its floorplates and followers but DSA is still selling flashiders as "US made".

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=002H&storeid=1&image=fhsteyrs.gif

Pistolwiz

October 21, 2006, 19:22

Originally posted by pryde
How come everyone is always bringing up how Entreprise remarked floorplates and followers? Is this not the same thing as DSA selling cut down stolls as "US made" flashhiders? How come that is never brought up?

Both are equally dishonest. The difference is that Entreprise no longer marks its floorplates and followers but DSA is still selling flashiders as "US made".

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=002H&storeid=1&image=fhsteyrs.gif

Touche'! I wonder how much time and money they spend to wear down the BFA teeth on those to get that "Been there, done that." look. :rolleyes:

Rich@CGW

October 21, 2006, 19:39

Originally posted by pryde
How come everyone is always bringing up how Entreprise remarked floorplates and followers? Is this not the same thing as DSA selling cut down stolls as "US made" flashhiders? How come that is never brought up?

Both are equally dishonest. The difference is that Entreprise no longer marks its floorplates and followers but DSA is still selling flashiders as "US made".

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=002H&storeid=1&image=fhsteyrs.gif

None of them shipped here have been cut down from Stoll devices. Don't let the picture fool you. The DSA US made ones are not hardened on the ends like the stoll.

DOCLOVE

October 22, 2006, 00:15

Originally posted by gunplumber
Damn Slipper - shouldn't you READ a thread before posting to it? From the 2nd page of this thread:

Would you consider Entre'prise taking surplus import floorplates, engraving them "EAI ", spraypainting them black and selling them as US made 922 compliant parts to be a "goof"?

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/webpictures/faleaifloorplate.jpg

your assertion that you don't care if Entreprise is dishonest does not enhance your credibility as a reviewer. [/QUOTE]

To bad they did not blast these before they painted them.Would have been real nice.

sigslipper

October 22, 2006, 02:20

I've been mad for about two days now. All day all I could think about was how to get back at Gunplumber.

Yet that is not the high road, and for someone who started off trying to be calm and impartial I rapidly reduced myself to petty bickering.

I still intend to review my rifle, and I still stand by what I said regarding EAI's floorplates. Bearing in mind that I've never seen one or been offered one, I still don't think that I would be upset if I received a coated stamped IMBEL like the first one in the picture. I would however be upset if it was all beat up like the second one in the picture. (Incidentally, GP, I DID read the whole post. How old is the second plate in the picture? Did it come out of the box like that? Steel rusts rather quickly)

I personally believe that there are MANY companies out there who take old parts, rework them, and resell them. This seems to be an accepted practice, esp. in the C&R market. Note Interordnance, SOG, Century. In some cases, rifles are reworked and then resold as original - take AIM surplus's CA-modified Ishapore Enfields.

Given that a, say tapco, floorplate has zero collectibility value and is indeed usualy considered materially inferior to IMBEL, I don't think EAI can be cast as a cheater here. They DID skirt the edge of truth and the law here, but I am ok with that.

I suppose that makes me a Machiavellian consumer. As long as I am satisfied, I don't care where or how it comes about. Then again, people are still buying Nike, Kenneth Cole, and BEBE ... to name a few, all made in sweatshops around the world where 16 hour workdays for 25 cents a piece are not uncommon.

...

I do feel that I need to apologize to everyone, GP included, for getting upset. I'll let it go from now on.

pryde

October 22, 2006, 02:51

Originally posted by Rich@CGW

None of them shipped here have been cut down from Stoll devices. Don't let the picture fool you. The DSA US made ones are not hardened on the ends like the stoll.

Thank you for the information about the newer DSA stolls, I was not aware that the new ones are US-made.

The point I was trying to make is that at one point DSA was selling recut stolls and trying to pass them off as US-made, even gunplumber himself has acknowledged this in the past. Apparently, both companies have stopped doing this.

So basically both DSA and Entreprise used some shady definitions of US-parts. Why is it that DSA never takes any heat for it, but everytime there is a discussion about entreprise the floorplates image pops up?

Personally I would prefer to buy an Entreprise receiver to a DSA but that's just me. The reason why this is, is that everytime I have bought anything from Entreprise, they have bent over backwards to help me out and if I ever have a problem with any of thier products they are more than willing to do exchanges and returns with no cost to me.

DSA tried to rip me off before and they have been known treat some of their other customers like total crap.

ftierson

October 22, 2006, 03:25

Originally posted by pryde

Thank you for the information about the newer DSA stolls, I was not aware that the new ones are US-made.

The point I was trying to make is that at one point DSA was selling recut stolls and trying to pass them off as US-made, even gunplumber himself has acknowledged this in the past. Apparently, both companies have stopped doing this.

So basically both DSA and Entreprise used some shady definitions of US-parts. Why is it that DSA never takes any heat for it, but everytime there is a discussion about entreprise the floorplates image pops up?

Personally I would prefer to buy an Entreprise receiver to a DSA but that's just me. The reason why this is, is that everytime I have bought anything from Entreprise, they have bent over backwards to help me out and if I ever have a problem with any of thier products they are more than willing to do exchanges and returns with no cost to me.

DSA tried to rip me off before and they treat me and their other customers like total crap.

Perhaps you should ask their other customers how they've been treated before you make such a stupid statement as this...

Forrest

pryde

October 22, 2006, 04:10

Originally posted by ftierson

Perhaps you should ask their other customers how they've been treated before you make such a stupid statement as this...

Forrest

There are threads all over the place complaining about DSA customer service. But in the interests of fairness I will edit my post.

gunplumber

October 22, 2006, 10:14

I don't think EAI can be cast as a cheater here. They DID skirt the edge of truth and the law here, but I am ok with that.

There is no "skirting" here. It pretty blatant. I'd have no problem with EAI advertising a part as "surplus import part, painted black & engraved - we're calling it US made and think we can defend that postion in court - buy at your own risk"

And as for "All day all I could think about was how to get back at Gunplumber" you ought to look at your own writing. I have only called attention to what YOU WROTE, stripped away the fluff and observed that what reamains - you don't care if Entre'prise lies, cheats and steals - does not enhance your credibility as a reviewer.

Do you get mad at the weatherman for observing that its raining?

ftierson

October 22, 2006, 12:22

Originally posted by pryde
There are threads all over the place complaining about DSA customer service. But in the interests of fairness I will edit my post.

Your edited post is exactly correct now...

Thanks for the edit...

And thanks for not getting pissed at my comment (which, I admit, could have been phrased a little more tactfully) about the original statement...

Personally, my experiences with DSA have been pretty positive, and whatever problems that I've had have been fixed quickly and with good cheer.

Obviously, others have had different experiences. And I would be the last one to suggest that our personal experiences shouldn't determine our future decisions about the people we decide to give money to...

At least it looks like DSA is trying to do something about some of the problems that people have had with them. Whether they are serious about really fixing the problems or just interested in making it look like they're addressing the problems remains to be seen...

Entreprise's new 'owner,' on the other hand, has come here threatening to sue anyone mentioning problems that they've had with Entreprise products, threatening to sue the falfiles simply because Jen provides a forum for discussing problems, and insulting all the members here (calling them ignorant bubbas).

And, after all that, Entreprise has never made any attempt to fix the problem (which, admittedly, would be hard to do if it's a top-down problem).

Forrest

sigslipper

October 22, 2006, 20:42

on most of the boards & IRL places I frequent, being called bubba is kind of a compliment. "bubba" falls in the same category as "tacticool" and "mall ninja" around here... we all make fun of them, but then we all secretly wish we had that NEF 300 WinMag and Blackhawk Knee Pads.

certainly, i doubt mikey meant it as a compliment.

I also doubt that he is the owner.

Then again, as of right now I don't even know who this Howard guy is. Maybe he was the asian guy with glasses that I saw the other day? He didn't seem to be in charge, though.

well, we'll soon find out. the gunsmith i mentioned earlier has agreed to review my gun, and i will also be punting about 1500$ in january towards a new build using an entreprise receiver. i guess i'm just an experimental guy.

now i'm off to go start a thread: What parts would you buy with 1500 for a CAL-FAL?

pryde

October 22, 2006, 22:36

I really don't know who mike is but I am somewhat familiar with entreprise and I am pretty sure Howard is still the owner. The company is primarily run by Walter (the guy with glasses) and Lily who are Howard's brother and sister. From what I understand from personal conversations, they keep the shop running but Howard is running another business and has not set foot inside Entreprise for the past 3-4 years.

So I guess it could be possible that Mike is running the place but if he is, its probably in a distant way, he's probably a partial shareholder who is trying to call shots since Howard no longer wants anything to do with the company.

sigslipper

October 23, 2006, 01:22

it's very strange.

see the thing that seems the weirdest of all considering the whole mikey fiasco was the way he really doesnt seem to fit into the overall picture of entreprise.

anyone who's actually been to the factory (think of it as smallish warehouse type building in the middle of Azusa CA which is topographically basically chapparal badlands) would have a hard time imagining it as being owned or partially owned by a beverly hills lawyer, etc.

GUN SNOB

October 23, 2006, 03:24

quote
This seems to be an accepted practice, esp. in the C&R market. Note Interordnance, SOG, Century. In some cases, rifles are reworked and then resold as original
quote

No thats not, I call it froud. Its a way to market to the less informed and an atempt to turn a sows ear in to a sow purse. (it still aint silk) You buy rusty cheap and resell hi after refinishing. Its done with Cars, bikes, houses....

Re worked and restored and origanol and factory new...... none of these are the same. Thats why thay have diffrent names!

If I were buying a Russan sniper rifle I wouldent buy it from North Carolina. I know 3 of the guys that made them out of issue rifles all week long. I also wouldent pay them to Hand pick. The running joke there is "there all hand picked, we pick them out of the bin buy hand right off the top."

I dont do buissness with them eather.

Some of our manufacturing companys are half a$$ becoulse some of us consumers are half a$$. I dont half a$$ my work, consider my work at least as good as most and expect the same from my suplyers.

Therse to many half a$$ers in this country. Time to up the standerds. Damit man take some pride in your self and stop looking for a loophole to meadocricy.

quote
(Incidentally, GP, I DID read the whole post. How old is the second plate in the picture? Did it come out of the box like that? Steel rusts rather quickly)
quote

NOT IF ITS PAINTED PROPERLY! Are you for real? Is your car rusting in the parking lot? Statements like that are what lead people to question your affileation/motaves.

quote
now i'm off to go start a thread: What parts would you buy with 1500 for a CAL-FAL?
quote

DSA reciver. Not becoulse thay are gods gift to fals, but thay are better than most. I hate there service, (that I have recived,) but the parts I have got from them have all been good.

Try Court in Fl. for $75 he can get you what DSA cant and I would recomend him as a buisness contact. A+1 for Court. No BS Streight up. defenetly worth keeping in buisness.

Or you can go streight to DSA and save the $75, Your not building untill Jan. so get on a list. (problem 1 with DSA, there slow to ship)There $4 cheeper than E'prizes dealer price if you use your file # and dont charge more for not cutting for the carry handle. Your possable resale value will be higher. Park finish not anodised(?).

And neither DSA or Court have called you a Bubba, back yard gunsmith or threatened to sue you for having an opinion.

Or maby you can take it from them and not GP. Weird a$$ world we live in, Ill never get it. A company insalts and threatens to sue and you give them money, a person asks a few questions and you worrie 2 days about getting evan over it. Even though several people were asking the same questions. Makes me wonder how we ended up on the top of the food chain.

ftierson

October 23, 2006, 15:42

Originally posted by GUN SNOB
Makes me wonder how we ended up on the top of the food chain.

Ain't that the truth...

:)

Forrest

ftierson

October 29, 2006, 14:11

Originally posted by GUN SNOB
Makes me wonder how we ended up on the top of the food chain.

Ain't that still the truth, even a week later...

Forrest

sigslipper

November 03, 2006, 00:16

Court in FL? Don't know who he is. I'd rather not spend another $75, $1500 is already ridiculously more than I ought to be spending. Still, I would like to support small business, so I don't know.

Re the steel rusting thing, well I'm a C&R 03 so I pretty much know that yup, steel can rust pretty quickly if there's humidity around. I remember leaving an old Yugo M48a in the garage for two days in the rain (no direct contact with water, just lots of august humidity trapped in the garage) and I wound up getting rust on the barrel.

What can I say, I was otherwise preoccupied with the girl I went shooting with.

Same goes for a swedish mora knife i went fishing with; tent stakes; gardening shovels; etc.

Yup if its properly finished I suppose it won't rust all that easily but every single one of the used AR magazines I've bought have had rust on them. Both aluminum (!!??) and steel. Heck, my Sig p228s both have rust on the mag releases, and they are SIG!@!? for crying out loud.

The fastest rust I've ever seen was with that swedish mora knife. I cut some bait with it, did about 2 hours of fishing, and when I pulled it out at home it was BROWN!!. I was quite upset.

...

I'm still gathering ideas and rereading that 1500$ thread I made. I'm picking up the rifle itself on Saturday (unless something intervenes) and I'm pretty excited.

PS: I just got my FN-49 two days ago and I can't stop playing with it. In fact I'm starting to think that maybe the FN-49 is a better choice for a real battle rifle than the FAL here in California since after all it was DESIGNED for stripper clips.

http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/057118000/57118948/pix3385460453.jpg

MikeC

November 03, 2006, 00:21

"Court in FL" is a member here who runs a shop. He buys a quantity of receivers and then resells them. He handles DSA, Century, a few AR brands and even JLD PTR receivers.

.

ftierson

December 07, 2006, 00:28

Originally posted by MikeC
"Court in FL" is a member here who runs a shop. He buys a quantity of receivers and then resells them. He handles DSA, Century, a few AR brands and even JLD PTR receivers.

And, I should add, Court has a really good reputation...

I've been really happy with what I've received from him...

Forrest

River Rat

February 11, 2007, 01:53

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sigslipper

well, we'll soon find out. the gunsmith i mentioned earlier has agreed to review my gun, and i will also be punting about 1500$ in january towards a new build using an entreprise receiver. i guess i'm just an experimental guy.

Did anyone ever hear the result of the gunsmith review?

:?

Voided37

April 12, 2007, 03:46

How is it river rat is a new member yet his # is 715?
Sorry, I'm a leo, curiousity is one of my 'trademarks' [idiosyncrasies?].

Inquiring minds wanted to read that report. 7 pages are gonna end WITH A QUESTION!
That ain't right...
:devil:
steve

ftierson

April 12, 2007, 09:41

Originally posted by Voided37
How is it river rat is a new member yet his # is 715?
Sorry, I'm a leo, curiousity is one of my 'trademarks' [idiosyncrasies?].

Inquiring minds wanted to read that report. 7 pages are gonna end WITH A QUESTION!
That ain't right...
:devil:
steve

Unless you pick a title yourself, the system (falfiles) picks one for you based only on the number of our posts...

I'm an Old Fart, not by choice (although it's probably still true), only because the system assigned me that title at 5000 posts...

You become a member (no longer a 'new' member) at about 50 or 100 posts (I don't remember which off the top of my head)...

Nothing funny to see here (except this is a thread on Entreprise receiver quality, of course)...

Forrest

Voided37

April 12, 2007, 19:13

Originally posted by ftierson

Unless you pick a title yourself, the system (falfiles) picks one for you based only on the number of our posts...

I'm an Old Fart, not by choice (although it's probably still true), only because the system assigned me that title at 5000 posts...

You become a member (no longer a 'new' member) at about 50 or 100 posts (I don't remember which off the top of my head)...

Nothing funny to see here (except this is a thread on Entreprise receiver quality, of course)...

Forrest

Thank you, Forrest.

bert01

June 11, 2007, 10:30

first off i want to apologize for not putting forth more effort in my searches, i know i have seen this dicussed before.

friend of mine just came in, told me he called enterprise and was told they were sold out of the $299 SGN add recvs. but if he went ahead and sent his payment he could recieve one next month from that production run. he's all excited and wants me to place an order, but i wanted to check here first.

im not worried about QC issues i just want to know what to expect as to delivery before i send my money in.

thanks, bert

(edited for spelling)

owlcreekok

June 12, 2007, 06:06

Okay.

Entreprise is making and shipping receivers again. No ?

Much ado about their capabilities in the past would, one would think, result in changes.

Has not a single soul among us had their hands on one of these ?

Or is it just too shameful to admit that one built on an Entreprise. You can damn well betcha if I can get my talons on one I will put it smack in the middle of a Dan's Grade One Imbel kit I got over yonder. I won't make no bones about it either.

Fess up y'all. WHO GOTS ONE ??????????????

ftierson

June 12, 2007, 09:52

Originally posted by owlcreekok
Fess up y'all. WHO GOTS ONE ??????????????

I don't...

And won't...

Y'all can do what you want...

:)

Forrest

owlcreekok

June 12, 2007, 10:40

Y'all can do what you want...

I generally do.

Sure pisses her off sometimes.

:rofl:

CReid

July 06, 2007, 23:35

ARe they shipping enterprise recievers? I called in november or december i think. And before. REfuse to pay the insane price for DSA stuff so i waited. Anyone tried one yet?

PS i plan on actually modelling this one in Cad for my fellow amateur-machinist nuts.

GunHo109

July 29, 2007, 00:57

I ordered one in March. I'm still waiting!?..

Very disappointed!

Lily the customer service Rep has givin me every excuse in the book! I'm just waiting for her to tell me something new. Like; "Your order is on it's way, and heres your tracking number, and buy the way, Thanks again for shopping at Entreprise Arms!"

Why would anyone buy a kit off there website and wait 6 months to finish it!?..

I'm going back to building AK's and AR's. Parts are plenty.....

dAvE :redface:

Tomovich

July 29, 2007, 12:29

:redface:

I've held off from posting about this but it's gotten ridiculous. In my case we're beyond the "every excuse in the book" stage. She has started acting like I'm an irate customer when I call (once a month!!!) and I've been totally patient. She's apparantly used up all her excuses. When she heard my name last time she acted all huffy and switched me to someone else apparantly KNOWING she had nothing good to tell me.

I bought two metric receivers late last year. Maybe the last two they had on hand. When I tried to actually use them I discovered the gas tube and barrel holes weren't concentric on one of them and on the other the tail end of the receiver had been dropped and the grooves smashed flat (BEFORE parking!!) so the top cover would not slide in. I called up and talked to a guy who said to ship them back and they would repair or replace and even barrel and headspace them for me. Sounds cool to me!! So I packed them all up and shipped tham back around the 1st of the year. This is what, the end of July?? Nothing but excuses and stories and bullshit. AND..........they have my kits, receivers AND money.

I can't help but say...........Entreprise sucks. At least for me they do. I have never really experienced this level (or lack of) of customer service except for from the federal government, in my life. :(

And so the saga continues..............lingering like a festering wound..................

DOCLOVE

July 29, 2007, 12:30

Originally posted by owlcreekok
Okay.

Entreprise is making and shipping receivers again. No ?

Much ado about their capabilities in the past would, one would think, result in changes.

Has not a single soul among us had their hands on one of these ?

Or is it just too shameful to admit that one built on an Entreprise. You can damn well betcha if I can get my talons on one I will put it smack in the middle of a Dan's Grade One Imbel kit I got over yonder. I won't make no bones about it either.

Fess up y'all. WHO GOTS ONE ??????????????

I have 2:tongue:

Tomovich

July 29, 2007, 13:32

They told me they are in fact producing and currently shipping out their "new improved" receivers. The back log of orders is apparently tremndous. At least too tremendous to take care of my 8 month old problem. But, some people must be getting receivers.

:rolleyes:

:redface:

GunHo109

August 01, 2007, 10:38

I got an E-mail today. They said they had 1 type 3 in the white ready for shipping if I was interested. I'm guessing in the white means not parked. I told them I would take it. I might as well get something for my money!?..:sad:

dAvE:sad:

Tomovich

August 01, 2007, 15:22

ONE???? How the hell can any real company do business like this??

Take it and run with it and hope it works. Please post your results. I'm still waiting for my two for 8 months now.

:mad:

GunHo109

August 02, 2007, 00:15

I got a tracking number today. I figure I'll slap it together, and hit it with some Duracoat. Then I'm done with FALS. I'm going to try building AK's. Maybe a nice SVD sniper rifle or something along that line. Hopefully there won't be any dead-ends on there parts kits.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out. I should be able to pick up the reciever on the 7th of Aug.

dAvE

Tomovich

August 02, 2007, 11:51

Originally posted by GunHo109
Hopefully there won't be any dead-ends on there parts kits.

dAvE

There are already dead ends in the AK world. No receiver problems but other "issues".

The number of kits are limited as far as I can tell. No more coming I think other than what may be sitting in bonded custom houses right now. Due to the new laws no more "real" barrels (just like with FALS). They found out we were excercising our freedoms and having too much fun. Damn free men, who do we think we are??

Also, SVD snipers use a different type of receiver than an AK, more like an SKS and there are none of THOSE kits around anyway.

I believe our days at this hobby are numbered. But in the meantime...........Entreprise is still a thorn in MY side........... :redface:

GunHo109

August 02, 2007, 14:17

No more AK kits! Frack!

But then again a full rifle is still cheaper. I only have 1 AK. I might as well pair up. And I still might buy an SVD or something of the sort. We have a gun show coming soon and I might start checking out my options.

Sorry you guys are still waiting. I was tempted to ask for my money back, but after 90 days, I'm not sure if you can still dispute it on your credit card!?.

none the less I havn't seen my reciever yet and I'm not sure if there will be any problems yet.

dAvE :eek:

GunHo109

August 07, 2007, 16:14

Receiver came in today. It looks fine so far except that it's not parked. So I guess there is hope for you that pre-paid as I did.

dAvE

GunHo109

August 12, 2007, 17:53

I spoke with Lily @ Entreprise Arms for awhile the other day. I told her the receiver was alot better than the one I had gotten 2 years ago. It fit the lower much better and the engraveing was alot nicer. She said the hold up they've been haveing is in part due to the company they use for parkarizing. If you decide to get it in the white and not parked, you can get your receivers alot quicker. It will save you several weeks off your wait time. Pretty much all there makeing right now is Metric type 3's. And they are makeing them as fast as they can.

I was at a gunshow today, and came across a South african congo Fal. I was tempted, but I decided to wait a few more months before I decide wether or not to do another build. I'm still looking for an SVD.

All politics aside, I ordered another Type 3 in the white.

dAvE:shades:

Tomovich

August 12, 2007, 18:26

Glad that they took care of you but I talked to them a couple of days ago and they're still dicking me around big time. Never ever again.

Never.

:redface:

AlohaRover

September 16, 2007, 11:32

I ordered 3 of the new receivers back when they were still 225$ prepaid. Today they are 290, compared to the FAL-Files DSA price of 350.
They arrived a week ago.

So this past week I sat down and built up 3 imbel kits on the Entreprise receivers. What a total pain in the ass. The finish is good, but required a lot of work.

Out of the three only one was able to hand time correctly. And yes tried all the barrels I have (5) in the ones that didn't. Best I could get was 9'oclock on one of them.

The other was 10. But the one at 10 I couldn't even screw the barrel in more then have way. So I applied some lapping compound to the threads and kept working the barrel in and out until it was seated.

Since I don't have a lathe I took a block of oak and drilled a hole in it just barely large enough so the threaded portion of the barrel would sit on it.
I then used some spray adhesive to attach a piece of sand paper to the block, cut out a hole in the sand paper. Couple squirts of oil. Drop the barrel in and twist. Kinda looked like I was trying to start a fire. I started with 220 wet dry and moved up to 400. Took forever on the one to get the shoulder set back.

I had to do the lapping compound trick on one of the gas tube threads also.

On one of the receivers the locking shoulder hole wasn't perfectly formed. A lot of metal from the ejector block had been pushed up into the shoulder hole and they never removed it. It looked like the EB slot was too small and they had to really push the block in, moving metal in the process. Some time spent with a small round file fixed it.

Now the worse thing was the mag wells. On all three receivers they were too small. More so in the width then the length. They would cut metal off the magazines as you tried to insert it, they were so tight.
Took a lot of work with the Dremal, but finally got them so that a mag could easily be insert and would drop clear when the mag release was pressed.

No problems with fit to the lower, bolt rails, or top cover.
But as it was took almost 8 hours work to get three of them barrelled, timed, headspaced, and the mag wells fixed.

I am all for saving some cash, but Entreprises time to deliver isn't any quicker then DSA's, maybe ever a little longer.
They charge your CC at the time of order, not time of shipping (DSA does ToS)
And then the amount of time required to get them working.
Not worth it IMHO.
I won't be ordering any more.

To date I have built 1 Hesse, 2 Centuriers, 3 Imbels, and 1 DSA. I probably was able to get all 7 of those rifles up and running in less time then one Entreprise.

To be fair, I did not contact them to complain. By the time I discovered the magwell problem, all three had already been worked on in some small manner.
The serial numbers were 30 numbers apart from the lowest to the highest if that matters.

Pete