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gman
August 15, 2001, 04:37
Moderators...please don't send this to Legal 'cause no-one ever goes there.

I advertise I have one of my babies for sale. I get an immediate response. The son of a local Marine Corps recruiter is going to school at Purdue and wants my STG. He comes by and takes it out for a test drive. All smiles. Then he tells me his friend in Indiana is interested in it. Hmmm. He wants to get this rifle.

I look at ATF FAQ page and it covers Interstate purchase of long guns pretty well. It says nothing about two residents having a transaction with one of them giving this rifle to someone who lives in another state. If this is a gift I could give a rats a$$. If he is acting as an agent for this person then...
The Code is specific, you can buy a long gun out of state as long as you go through a dealer. I couldn't find anything on private buys.

This kid is squared away, dad is a jarheads jarhead so I am not dealing with suspect persons.

This is my strategy: I am going to ask if he is using his own money to buy my rifle and then give it to his friend as a gift. If he plans on being reimbursed then it is not a gift and I will not sell it to him.

I did check Indiana regs and there is no gunowners card or buying permits or crap like that.

I am just wondering why he doesn't buy one in Indiana.

Any comments appreciated.

EMDII
August 15, 2001, 05:56
Originally posted by gman:
<STRONG>Moderators...please don't send this to Legal 'cause no-one ever goes there.
...</STRONG>

Look at the traffic in Legal. Folks go there. You get one day in G/D. We had 5 subjects get trafficked there yesterday.

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: EMDII ]

xcpd69
August 15, 2001, 06:06
I am afraid that technicaly, that is what is known as a "strawman purchase", and could be a violation of law, since you have certain knowledge the purchaser is going to turn the weapon over to a third party, whom is a resident of another state.

As far as I can tell, transfer of a firearm from the resident of one state to the resident of another, MUST involve an FFL dealer in the recipient's state. In other words, the Marine kid(If a resident of your state) can purchase the weapon from you, take it to an FFL in Indiana, sell or transfer to that FFL, then the FFL sell or transfer to the final recipient, perfectly legally.

Bottom line is an unlicensed person may only sell a firearm to another unlicensed person in the state where they both reside. You selling to the Marine as an end user(if he's a state resident) is legal. Him taking it back to sell to his buddy in Indiana is not, unless through an FFL Your knowing of his intent to dispose of the weapon to an unlicensed person in another state, makes it a "strawman" purchase.

You may say it's no big deal, but if there is some problem with the Indiana kid legally owning a firearm and he gets caught, with the weapon traced back to you, you could be in trouble.

Am I paranoid? Undoubledly! Paranoid enough?? Who knows.....

gman
August 15, 2001, 06:43
Hey Ted,
I just had a stroke of common sense: I'll just check what cpd69 said with local BATF office...DOH!! Ok I feel stupid now. You can move this to Legal whenever you want, sorry to add to your workload. :)

Cpd69, I had thought of this but only in the context of buying through a dealer. When I had my FFL ('80-'89) this was just becoming a focus by BATF.
Thanks for the reply I know it took awhile to put that down.

Enquiring Minds
August 15, 2001, 06:53
Ironically, had you NOT posted this on a public forum, you could have gone ahead with the sale to USMC, Jr., totally legal, and plausibly disavowed the further downstream actions of some wildass college kids in a far away state... but now, it's what cpd69 said... prior knowledge, conspiracy, interstate trafficking, etc., probably drum up some explosives violations and some RICO ditties too if it's a slow month.

Now if Jr. changes his official state of residence (e.g. to get lower tuition), THEN transfers the rifle to same-state buddy, that should be legal... just ask Randy Weaver... oh, sorry, bad example.

As far as contacting the local ATF, if their answer is oral it's worthless, and even if it's in writing it ain't worth much.

Hambone_22345
August 15, 2001, 07:11
I think a "strawman" sale is selling a firearm to someone who is not qualified to purchase one through legal means. As far as the across the state lines thing, you're selling it to Mr Perdue. If he transports it across state lines and resells it, you are innocent of any blame. He's the one who is breaking the law. JMHO

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Hambone_22345 ]

xcpd69
August 15, 2001, 07:32
Originally posted by Hambone_22345:
<STRONG>I think a "strawman" sale is selling a firearm to someone who is not qualified to purchase one through legal means. As far as the across the state lines thing, you're selling it to Mr Jarhead. If he transports it across state lines and resells it, you are innocent of any blame. He's the one who is breaking the law. JMHO</STRONG>

And when "Mr Jarhead" get's busted, he will cough up the man who sold him the weapon, "knowing it was going out of state" to save his own ass.

Trust me, I know how this kind of deal works...This is how the LE community acquires "snitches."

It AIN'T worth the risk...Not when you can do it legally, by shipping the rifle to an FFL in Indiana, and let him legally transfer it to the buyer.

Cost of shipping plus transfer fees is far less than minimum lawyer's fee.