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TREEGUNNER
February 13, 2003, 13:00
I was wondering are FALaholics naturally NASCAR FANS?

Wadman
February 13, 2003, 14:24
Stock cars? Not really my thing. But Formula 1 on the other hand....

kfranz
February 13, 2003, 14:50
Go fast, turn left. What's not to love.

Wadman
February 13, 2003, 16:03
Originally posted by limeyinaz


Agreed. Along with Trans Am; Australian, Britsh, German Touring Car.

I watch a lot less Speed Channel now they are devoting much more time to NASCAR. Going round and round is just plain boring, it's more exciting watching the pit crews race each other than the car race itself.

I actually tried watching some of it. Not sure which race but it seemed like the pace car was out there as much as the race leaders and every other lap was under caution.

BigDozer66
February 13, 2003, 16:04
Yes I do!
NASCAR, Formula 1, NHRA, IMSA, Rallye, Baja! It's all good!
Motocross is good too!

BigDozer66

masman
February 13, 2003, 17:06
Originally posted by limeyinaz



I watch a lot less Speed Channel now they are devoting much more time to NASCAR. Going round and round is just plain boring, it's more exciting watching the pit crews race each other than the car race itself. watch the nascar race when they race at bristol.lots of accidents :devil: and the pits do play a part in it.

Falunga
February 13, 2003, 17:12
NASCAR: Four-wheeled version of "pro-wrestling"

Jim :fal: FALunga

ricochet
February 13, 2003, 20:22
Oh yeah,
I've got IT BAD!

I enjoy other sports also, and enjoy open wheel racing also. I find open wheel racing fascinating to actually go sit in the grandstands, but to really enjoy Nascar, I prefer the TV. Not saying I haven't enjoyed being there, but Nascar has the bumping/grinding and pit finesse that can best be fully viewed on TV. In open wheel racing, a slight bump or wheels touching- you're out of the race. Nascar cars bump and grind, they get lapped and to come back to win is not that uncommon. I watch them all- but prefer Nascar. It seems more an American sport like football, but with 43 teams on the field at once.

Random Chaos
February 13, 2003, 21:12
watching guys do left hand turns, just not my thing. however my father in law will put in a tape of an old race Thankgiving and christmas afternoons so the whole family can enjoy it, makes for looooong visits. I guess we are all peculiar in our own little ways, makes me hope that when I'm his age, I don't hold FAL building sessions with the whole family after thankgiving and Christmas dinners. LOL

Rick

IanMor
February 13, 2003, 21:13
no, not even a little bit......I like "profesional" wrastling even less. I consider both forms of entertainment to be large contributers to what is wrong with this country today.... Kill your TV. However, I have been known to watch a little F1 or land speed record or even top fuel drag racing once in a while. So I am not completely heartless.

Watch less, read more

Regards,
Ian

P.S. it's only my opinion, and we all know what those are like, and all you #3 or #8 freaks flaming me isn't going to change my mind! :)

CODE 3
February 13, 2003, 21:24
I hate it!

Warhawk
February 13, 2003, 21:30
My dad gave me a ride to Daytona on the back of his Harley when I was about 9 or 10, I've been hooked ever since.

kenhorse
February 13, 2003, 21:33
Originally posted by Falunga
NASCAR: Four-wheeled version of "pro-wrestling"

Jim :fal: FALunga

whats wrong with pro wrestling:biggrin:

Falunga
February 13, 2003, 21:54
Originally posted by kenhorse


whats wrong with pro wrestling:biggrin:

Nothing if you like watching action "soap operas" that are contrived and unreal.

"That was not in the script!"

Jim :fal: FALunga

knievel
February 13, 2003, 22:06
It will be racing when they also turn right. NASCAR did add a couple of road courses, but then the big teams bring in a roadcourse hotshoe for those races. I just wish NASCAR would admit what it is. The racing is irrelevant. People watch because the drivers are on the edge of death. Its the only racing series in the world where a huge concrete wall on the outside edge of a 160mph corner is there in the name of "safety". It's not there for safety, its there to kill drivers. They should lose the banked corners and walls, then we'd see racing.

Scrub
February 13, 2003, 22:27
NASCAR:
Non
Athletic
Sports
Catering
Atlanta
Rednecks
At least, that's what I call it--:biggrin:

crowbait
February 13, 2003, 22:32
I find it perfect to take a nap to. No real personal involvement
on my part, just some backround noise to drift off to on a lazy weekend afternoon. No offense ment to the true NASCAR fans
but I really cannot that worked up over the results one way or another. But remember this is coming from a guy that races sailboats for excitement. To each his own. crowbait

PROAMERICAN
February 14, 2003, 08:15
Watch it when ever my dad has it on Sundays. I just thought it was better than having a sig line that said PHUK Liberals.

tigerfans2
February 14, 2003, 12:50
...... not since the days of Fireball Roberts.........

wanna run NASCAR? fine, homologate 500 or so of 'em. STREETABLE.. then run what ya brung.........

oh h*ll, I just don't like anything new........:p

lmsc07ct
February 14, 2003, 13:04
LMSC07Ct =

Late Model Stock Car 07 ConnecticuT

Yeah, I like it! Wrestling a 3,000lb monster thru a corner with another car inches (or less) off your quarter panel is more fun than polishing brass. Plus it's a hell of alot more athletic, the interior is always over 100 degrees and you're in a non-breathing nomex suit, you need to be in shape to withstand an hour of that. Power steering means squat on 12" wide slicks, it definitely isn't your soccermom SUV!

As for the "redneck" part, I'm from the north, and a SCSU schooled computer tech. Redneck? No. And the SCCA thing? Yeeeuuck!!! Sissies!
That's why I hung the 86 Red Devil F500 chassis on the wall as a decoration.

TREEGUNNER
February 14, 2003, 14:02
I envy anyone with the sheer nerve to drive a car to its limits. Straight line racing is great on Friday nights with the boys but I would love to be on an oval door to door with the pedal to the floor. :rofl: YEEEEEE HAAAAA

Turbinator
February 14, 2003, 15:37
I'm not a huge fan but I enjoy watching races every once in a while when I can. I just got this on auction over at Gunbroker


1997 Remington Ford Thunderbird "Bullet" Collector's Tin (http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=7286709)

I'm also getting the first edition tin as well :shades:

donker
February 14, 2003, 15:48
F1 and world rally. Although the F1 racing has been predictable the last few years. Schumaker, Schumaker, Schumaker.(sp) I'd like to see a rally race with the NASCAR drivers in Greece. I think NASCAR would be over for a year or so until they got enough new drivers to replace all the dead ones at the bottom of the canyons and mountain roads they race through.

darkknight9
February 14, 2003, 15:58
Formula 1, Death rally, World rally, Unimog rally, Superbike.

And also perhaps sprint cars on dirt tracks, but only if you get to be there to get covered in dirt.

And hear the loud advertisments over the loudspeaker.

Nascar?

No.

If you put them on some actual racing tracks, in proper cars, against F1 drivers, maybe.

Eric Bryant
February 14, 2003, 19:41
When NASCAR is good, it's a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Seems like every time things get a bit too tight and competitive, they do stuff to try and break up the pack. Uh, I thought racing was supposed to be close and dangerous?

I've been a Superbike and GP500/GP1 fan for the last five years, and I've gotten into rally racing recently.

Frankly, though, I'd usually rather take the bike to the track or the Impala to an autocross than just sit around and watch TV :)

Wadman
February 14, 2003, 19:55
Originally posted by Eric Bryant
Seems like every time things get a bit too tight and competitive, they do stuff to try and break up the pack. Uh, I thought racing was supposed to be close and dangerous?


That seems to be the opposite of how I understand things. Aren't there complaints about restrictor plates forcing everyone to drive in a big pack with no one really able to break away? And even if the pack does start to separate, the all too frequent caution lap will bunch everyone up again.

Falunga
February 14, 2003, 20:44
Originally posted by tigerfans2
...... not since the days of Fireball Roberts.........

wanna run NASCAR? fine, homologate 500 or so of 'em. STREETABLE.. then run what ya brung.........

oh h*ll, I just don't like anything new........:p

How about Superbike rules for NASCAR? Showroom vehicles only! Road-legal except for slicks for safety because of the higher speeds. Stock EVERYTHING including the floormats and other than the tires the only thing that can be changed/removed would be the safety-belts in favor of a real harness. Make homoluglation rules to be at least 1000 or even 2500 units. Race what you build. If you can't order one from the factory JUST LIKE YOUR RACE CAR you can't race it. That would make buying a car off the showroom FUN again! Look what it did for the sportbike industry :biggrin: Imagine what it could do for the automakers :uhoh:

Jim :fal: FALunga

guntoting_spartan
February 14, 2003, 20:47
go fast, turn left, how exciting. BAH!

knievel
February 14, 2003, 23:04
Oh man, if they did the "run what you sell" thing it would revolutionize the automotive industry, just like it did sportbikes. I bought a bike for $8,000 that will go 0-60 in under 3 seconds, and top out at over 160mph. Now that is racing influencing production. The days of announcers trying to describe a Taurus as a race car would be long gone, unless they make one monster of a Taurus for the rest of us. Of course with that instituted, NASCAR would have to get rid of carbuerators, like the auto industry did 20 years ago.....

Falunga
February 14, 2003, 23:42
If that really happened I might actually consider buying another new car again instead of buying cream-puff cars with lots of life left in them. For the time being I'll be satisfied driving early-90's Japanese sedans that seem to last FOREVER even if they perform a bit sub-standard for a "performance" automobile. Why spend more than $10K on a mom-mobile?

When I can buy the equivalent of a $8500 ZX-7 in a 4-wheeled vehicle for under $20K that rides like a rocket but still lasts and is streetable then I'll pull the cash out of the retirement account.

Until then, and until the market goes back up to where I paid for my mutual funds, I'm going to keep it in the market. I don't mind the economy being in a slump. I've got at least 20 years to go before I can retire and I'm putting 15K/year into a market and buying it LOW! Gotta love it :) Buy low and sell high! Investor's dream. Now if only the thieves in the IRS didn't steal over half of my income I could invest even more!

Jim :fal: FALunga

Spoty
February 15, 2003, 08:49
Vroooommm!
Vroooommm!
Vroooommm!
(several hours later...)
Vroooommm!
Vroooommm!
Vroooommm!

Templator
February 15, 2003, 09:27
I can't say that I'm a huge NASCAR fan, although I'll occasionally watch a race. My uncle used to drive on dirt tracks and *IS* a hugh fan of NASCAR. When I was 14 he took me to MIS. This was in the early 70's when the Chrysler hemis ruled the races,... Dodge Daytona Chargers, Plymouth Superbirds.

We pulled a camper down the night before the race and stayed in the infield. There were a lot of his friends there also. He even allowed me to have a few beers after I promised not to tell my Aunt. This was big stuff for a 14 year old kid from rural Kentucky!

Next morning, I awoke to the sound of the cars on the track. Some of the teams were taking them out before the race and tweaking them in. From our place in the infield, we could see about 1/4 mile of the backstretch,.. maybe a little more. The first two cars that I saw were two of the Daytona Chargers. They were going down the backstretch at what I estimate to be about 150mph. I thought, "BOY!,.. look at em go!" After a coupla laps, they opened them up,.. all I could think was "HOLY SHIT!"

I guess I'm not really a racing fan,... I just like to see those machines moving around the track like they do. You have to see it in person to fully appreciate it.

justashooter
February 15, 2003, 09:40
guys going around in circles, getting nowhere, really fast.

DJ
February 15, 2003, 10:41
My wife and I are huge NASCAR fans. When Daytona Speedweek rolls around in February, it's like a breath of fresh warm spring air. We KNOW that Spring is just around the corner. Last fall when I asked her what she wanted for Christmas, she said "Tickets to a race". So I got her tickets to Dover in June. Best Christmas present I ever gave her. :smile: :smile: :smile: She's so excited already I don't know how she's gonna make it to race day.

bozoracing
February 15, 2003, 11:23
I have to agree with Templator. You have never experienced a race until you have been to the track on race day. The sound of 40, 700 horse motors with open exhaust flooring off the start line is unlike anything. Add in garage passes before the race and pit passes during the race and you have one very exciting day.

For an added thrill, bring a scanner or rent one at the track. Sometimes you can hear the drivers having some interesting coversations with their team.

I have the fortune to have a younger brother who is currently working for Hendrick Motorsports. Works in the 24,48 shop during the week, pits for their Busch teams on weekends.

As of last year we were able to get 4 all event guest passes a year for free, but with Nascar restricting access to the garages and pits I'm not sure what to expect. It does get crowded and a little crazy with all the people milling about. I can see why the drivers and teams react the way they do. Its hard to get work done with people mobbing you..

Besides all that where else can you experience the largest tail- gate party with like-minded individuals.

Eric Bryant
February 15, 2003, 11:43
Originally posted by Wadman
That seems to be the opposite of how I understand things. Aren't there complaints about restrictor plates forcing everyone to drive in a big pack with no one really able to break away? And even if the pack does start to separate, the all too frequent caution lap will bunch everyone up again.

Yep, so then they modify the rules to include new "aero packages" that make drafting more difficult (this is similar to the changes made in CART a few years back), and smaller fuel cells to force more-frequent pit stops in the hope that more green-flag stops will break up the pack.

Any time the pack gets spread out during restrictor-plate racing, it turns into a 180 MPH parade. Boring. When the cars bunch up and start drafting, then it can get rather exciting, but NASCAR is apparently afraid of things getting too exciting (and there's a few wussy drivers who start complaining when the racing gets too close).

gman
February 15, 2003, 11:55
As it is written, they have too many rules. They should allow big-blocks with unlimited cams, intakes and fuel delivery systems. I want to see those bad boys running anything they could put under the hood as long as it is 4-cycle reciprocating internal combustion. If that means they could stick a V-10 under there, more power to them.

WildWest
February 15, 2003, 22:26
Naaa, My dad wore nascar and golf out when I was young. I guess I was kinda traumatized by the wall-cam/mic...whoosh, ...whoosh,whoosh,.......whoosh,whoosh,whoosh.

I don't mind the NHRA, atleast I get to see the end of several races in an hour, as apposed to 1 end in several hours.
I got stuff to do man, a fal to build, shed to finish building, half an acre to mow, wife will be giving birth in about a month (therfore) housework, a five year old to entertain, a car in the yard that needs a rearend, a new front door to install, a cabinet to build in the bathroom, and theres always that pesky work thingy, and then theres the FAL Files, other sites, email. oh yeah, sleep....who has time for that any more?!

But you all enjoy the 500 tomorrow, I'll be there in spirit.

I do have to admit, I might flick it on the T.V. for a few minutes near the begining and the end, MAYBE.

Oh, I got brass to polish too. lol

Enjoy
Go richard petty......what? he's retired?!!!oh...uh, nevermind.

jt325i
February 16, 2003, 16:31
Originally posted by guntoting_spartan
go fast, turn left, how exciting. BAH!

That about sums up my sentiments on NASCAR. :)

ricochet
February 16, 2003, 16:54
Originally posted by bozoracing
I have to agree with Templator. You have never experienced a race until you have been to the track on race day. The sound of 40, 700 horse motors with open exhaust flooring off the start line is unlike anything. Add in garage passes before the race and pit passes during the race and you have one very exciting day.

Besides all that where else can you experience the largest tail- gate party with like-minded individuals.
and DJ said "My wife and I are huge NASCAR fans. When Daytona Speedweek rolls around in February, it's like a breath of fresh warm spring air. We KNOW that Spring is just around the corner. Last fall when I asked her what she wanted for Christmas, she said "Tickets to a race". So I got her tickets to Dover in June. Best Christmas present I ever gave her. She's so excited already I don't know how she's gonna make it to race day."


It is not for everyone, THANK GOD, nor is any sport. But, it is a mostly clean sport, and these guys are atheletes irregardless if you realize that. And they are required to be wired most of the time. A mistake in football means a sack or fumble, in NASCAR a mistake can mean death, but they accept that and love love competition.

And 250,000 fans at an event (not a riot) are peacable and really is a family event. And the decisions that they make in split seconds (and I have known and met several of the racers), these guys are (in my oppinion) great role models. Love it or hate it, it is guys competing tough. I love it, I love FALs, I love football, I love hockey- but you really need to be at a NASCAR event to experience the family atmosphere. Oh yeah, I despise golf, but appreciate it is there to keep other folks satisfied.

Now I'll go polish brass. I can do both, I prefer Nascar tho. Give it a positive chance- these guys mostly enjoy shooting/hunting, and they will not negatively affect the kids (mostly). My wife and 13 year old daughter have been sitting and watching this race today= no cursing and plenty excitement. More race to come,

hardwire7018
February 16, 2003, 22:56
Falunga,Knievel and Tigersfan2 .....I like the way you think.... Stock Cars???.. nothing stock about them ,the whole business is BS. The idea is to extract the max amount of money from the fans and consumers...yes WWF etc. comes to mind.

Carp Killer
February 17, 2003, 00:46
:sleep:

TnT2c71
February 17, 2003, 03:14
four left turns, drunk fans on top of their RVs' sitting on that lawnchair. NO THANKS. Besides how can NECKCAR be racing when it is possible that it can end under a "yellow" flag. Which means to me that a group of people "race", But if someone gets into an accident, no one can pass the other even if it's the last lap. Race my ass.....I'll polish brass. :D

Hawkish
February 17, 2003, 19:21
Formula 1 for me!

Whats with the restrictor plate? The other cars can't keep up with the Chevy's?!?!?:wink:

Treborer
February 17, 2003, 20:48
Hard to be thrilled by Nascar

What kind of punk does left turns for big time money ,

in a roll cage that would save astronauts,

A smart one.

If you want to see balls in action watch Formula One.:shades:

Most American Sports are little -boy games.

Men's games are, Bullfighting, Auto -Racing, Mountain climbing,Downhill skiing,
Motorcycle, snowmobile racing, and Ice hockey, boxing.

Men Die doing these.

My 105lb Wife demonstrated in Real Time she had bigger stuff in her than the Shit talkin BillyBobs That folded When Our communnity was invaded, And she was all Girl Too.

My Point, Love what you will, Be entertained by what you will,
But when you compare, Well that's apples and Oranges.

I'd be pleased to sit in totally protected rollcage and go left shifting twice per lap and have people worship Me

Yeah , Nascars Great, Bring on the trophy girls. Your Daughtermaybe..

Don't sell her cheap, she probably has more sense than you.

Real deal in Nascar them boys will bounce your ass in to oblivion,
The lack of challenge on the course is more than made up by the trechery. It just ain't decernable much for the fans. My Daddy ran shine, I think I may have drunk too deep, of this evenin, S'cuse me.


:tongue:

NHM90
February 17, 2003, 22:08
Men die in NASCAR as well...Dale Earnhardt, Kenny Irwin, Adam Petty....

It takes a real man to run in most race series, whether it be F1, CART, IRL, NHRA, or NASCAR.

Most people who makes statements including: "anyone can just turn left," "drive in circles for hours," "get nowhere fast," are obviously missing the point of it. There is an immense amount of R&D, testing, innovation and strategy involved in the sport. Take a look at qualifying speeds, the entire field is often separeted by no more than a second. Those cars are run right at the edge of the envelope. And it takes talent for any team to win multiple races with the competition that intense.

I used to follow some F1 races, however, when I witnessed Michael Schumacher's teammate (can't remember exactly who right now) lead almost an entire race only to have his team owner order him to allow Schumacher by -- for points reasons -- I decided that I would never watch the series again. Talk about scripting....

Treborer
February 17, 2003, 23:45
So we should reduce the pursuit of excellence to the size of the dirt track.

don't get me wrong, real fine times are had there, and when the authorities set arbitrary boundries, genious springs forth to work within those imposed limitations, and they are all real-men...

At it's roots we used to call it Stock-Car racing.

I didn't mean to shit in anyone's messkit,

Dale was a champion, and went out like one.

I think stock car racing or at least the hype should recall it's moonshining roots , circle track is boring unless your the man driving.

:|

Falunga
February 18, 2003, 17:49
Originally posted by NHM90

Most people who makes statements including: "anyone can just turn left," "drive in circles for hours," "get nowhere fast," are obviously missing the point of it. There is an immense amount of R&D, testing, innovation and strategy involved in the sport. Take a look at qualifying speeds, the entire field is often separeted by no more than a second. Those cars are run right at the edge of the envelope. And it takes talent for any team to win multiple races with the competition that intense.



It's still boring to watch. Old men playing checkers with Million-dollar sillied-up "stock" (LOL) cars.

Treborer nailed it when he said that anyone who really was RACING would get his ass pushed into the wall. It's all scripted. It's all politics and "checkers." If you are not part of the "ole-boy" network you are never going to get your own "victory" lap. You still have to have the car make it the whole race. They guys doing the pit-work and the behind the scenes wrenching are the real heros in NASCAR. Monkeys could drive as long as they could be made to understand that "monkey #2" is scheduled to win today. Nobody let anyone else win or else kick 'em to the wall!

Dale Earnhardt indeed! LOL. He was just the "enforcer." Live by the sword -die by the sword.

Jim :fal: FALunga

Carp Killer
February 18, 2003, 20:47
I don't know car racing, but was there ever a time when there was NO rules except the car had to have 4 wheels and an internal combustion engine? Just, if you build it, it can race. Aggressive drivers are a plus. Sorta like a Mad Max Nascar. I think then I would be interested. :cool: :D

KYCol
February 18, 2003, 22:18
Originally posted by knievel
It will be racing when they also turn right. NASCAR did add a couple of road courses, but then the big teams bring in a roadcourse hotshoe for those races


I don't think anyone can accuse Dale Sr. or Jeff Gordon (shudder) of being a hotshoe road course driver. I don't remember any Formula drivers ever jumping in ole No.3 and showing em how it's done.. Not a flame, just the facs. :shades:

DC
February 19, 2003, 12:40
there is nothing technically interesting to me about it. Too many rules in the name of entertainment.

Three things I don't get about American culture are NASCAR, Bruce Springsteen, and Taco Bell. ;)

cabinetman
February 19, 2003, 13:08
Racing, as I grew up to know it in the 1960 on, is dead.

Virtually all of the refinements we find in our current road vehicles were developed by the racing industry. The high water mark of those inventions had to be in the 70s with F1 and CART racing. In those years, cars could go faster than the driver could drive them. In other words there was actually space between his gas pedal and the floor for a lot of the race. Suspensions improved, fuel economy became important as did hp vs. displacement. Think about fuel injection! Where did that come from.......auto racing. Think about disk brakes and suspensions we have today. They, too, are directly offshoots from those wonderful days of R&D on the race track. Electronic transmissions? Direct offshoot from racing. Getting 600hp from a 2 liter engine!! Imagine that. Only by providing the environment that will entice the developers and investors into auto racing will we continue to see these types of improvements.

Today, auto racing is nothing more than WWF in cars. Everything looks and acts the same. Technology is nothing, personality is everything. There isn't any "racing" going on at Daytona. 35 virtually identical cars go out there in a mass and end up in a mass. Then they weep and moan and gnash their teeth when 15 or 20 cars collide in a horrific crash when one knot head bumps the guy in front of him yet everything is done to keep these guys bunched up on purpose! It's ludicrous!

Real racing is quickly disappearing. First F1 lost its appeal as cars had to have 'ribbed' tires and then were made narrower, actually worsening handling in an attempt to slow them down. CART was decimated with the continuing onerous rules, slowing them down. Poppet valves were restricted, wings reduced, ground effects ruined, etc., etc. all to slow them down. IRC was born but all it is is Nascar with open wheels. No fuel injection for them, no sir. They need carburetors like the ones on our old beasties back 30 years ago! Where are the developments happening today? Ask a NASCAR fan what's under the hood of his favorite car and you'll get a blank stare. Ask what brand is on the hood of his favorite car, and he'll rattle them all off starting with Tide or "1800collect". What drivel!

What needs to be reintroduced to racing is a 100%, no restrictions open field event once again. We need to see the monsters: the jet powered racers or 1000+ hp behemoths that will once again strain the creativity of the designers. There will always be drivers out there willing to put their butts on the line to pilot those cars, especially when there are +million dollar paychecks. Once again the developments will trickle down to benefit our street cars with increased power with better economy and better handling.

All the current improvements (restrictions) have ruined "racing" because it's not racing anymore. Until some originality is introduced once again, racing is dead.

Thanks for letting me vent! I feel much better now.


Rome

Spoty
February 19, 2003, 15:35
Originally posted by Carp Killer
Sorta like a Mad Max Nascar. I think then I would be interested.

If they mount gunz and stuff and have lots of explosions and chaos with the cars then I would pay to see it.

"I'll give you safe passage through the wasteland, just leave the gas."

NHM90
February 19, 2003, 16:12
If the restrictions were lifted, the teams with the most money would be the consistant winners, because they could devote the most to R&D. That would make for some very boring events.

Falunga
February 19, 2003, 17:32
Originally posted by NHM90
If the restrictions were lifted, the teams with the most money would be the consistant winners, because they could devote the most to R&D. That would make for some very boring events.

Sounds like communism to me. "Make everyone equal. It's not fair that some have better cars than others...*sniff*"

They guy who either spends the most money or the most time or the most brain-power will make the best car -AND WIN!. The rest of the pack will need to figure out what it is that he is doing better and catch up!. That USED to be the American way. Now it's, "how UNFAIR that some have more money or resources than the others...snivel, snivel, snivel. Level the playing field for all. That is more sporting and less 'boring' for us." -- Communisim pure and simple. -- We beat the Soviet Union in the cold war by BECOMING them...

What ever happened to excellence?

Jim :fal: FALunga

ricochet
February 19, 2003, 21:19
Originally posted by NHM90
If the restrictions were lifted, the teams with the most money would be the consistant winners, because they could devote the most to R&D. That would make for some very boring events.

The ones who do not understand this statement never will understand our love of racing. If everything was fair, large corporations would always have the advantage to bury competition. Like finding a loophole- Nascar closes the loophole. I do not see this as communism, I see it as closing loopholes. And keeping the competition close (I wish OUR government could figure a way to keep US businesses from leaving because of competition[ but not like communism}). Fair competition? Maybe not! Keeping it simple for those many of you think as simple- nah. But just as many do not like golf, of shooting, or FAL rifles, or Ford/Chevys, I appreciate you like your choices (but I don't like them like you), I do like FALs and I do like NASCAR, and if you guys think these guys are simple to turn left- this is a big loss by you. I have been to many races of F1 and Nascar, also MANY gun matches, I love to shoot, but by your standards, watch shooting, or golf, or baseball, or football- talk about boring!

As my father said- One man's ceiling is another man's floor. I also enjoy gardening. I do not need you to like my choice, nor do I care if you like it. But calling Nascar boring? Nascar is boring to those who cannot understand the depth and competition of it. Go watch folks shooting and look at the activity (unless fully auto-matic). Yeah, I got it bad, and am glad to admit it.

cabinetman
February 20, 2003, 08:09
If NASCAR wants to impose a raft of restrictions on the drivers and teams, and the teams still show up, more power to them. I still say watching NASCAR is like watching a moving billboard. The ONLY reason these guys are into this is due to the advertising money. If you took that away, that racing would virtually disappear overnight with the exception of those few diehard true competitors. It's true that before this explosion in advertising dollars, NASCAR was a competitive event where true Fords competed against Chevy and Pontiac etc. That type of NASCAR no longer exists.

And, yes, sponsorship is important to all racing but less so with the other disciplines as the cars don't provide huge, flat surfaces to slap stuff on.

Finally, the ultimate problem I have with "racing" is the direction it's taken. While NASCAR has always been what it's been, there were avenues for other forms of more "pure" racing where the guy with the big bucks DOES win because he DOES have the deeper pockets than his competitor and he CAN develop better technologies. It THIS kind of racing that has disappeared........and not because of the lack of money. It's because the controlling, racing sanctioning bodies are restricting them and the "politically correct" attitude permeating these guys.

An earlier poster mentioned wanting the "no-holds-barred" kind of racing. Well, that's just what existed when the GT40s and Jet Cars, and 1000+ hp monsters were all competing against each other in the 70s. NASCAR still existed and was popular, but so did this racing as did Formula 1. They all orbited the planet equally and had their detractors as well as supporters. Where do you find that today? Where is the unlimited competition, free from some stupid and arbitrary restrictions? There isn't any anymore except for some types of drag racing, I guess.

So, all I'm complaining about is this pure form of "build it and race it" competition. It doesn't exist anymore and that's sad. That's because this was the true primordial soup that fostered continued development in technology. It's where guys built cars that were first drawn on a napkin, not a computer. It was the high end of the "junkyard wars" technology where these racers were able to take existing stuff and make it better........not be told that they all had to use restrictor plates to lower performance. No. These guys wanted to go faster and faster, to be more quick, and consequently handle better, and to be safe all at the same time. If you showed up to complete and got your socks blown off, you went back to the drawing board.

There are plenty of people with deep pockets who would flock to this kind of competition and I believe, in today's TV climate, there would be plenty of people to watch the televised events. Unfortunately, none of the existing racing sanctioning bodies would ever allow this in the name of "safety". So, folks, be prepared to basically be driving what you're driving for the next 40 years because there isn't anybody pushing the envelope any more. What's next? Racing electric or fuel cell cars? Wow. I can't imagine the excitement of that! :tongue: There aren't anymore 'cars on napkins' out there and to me, that's sad.

Rome

MagicAnimal
February 21, 2003, 15:06
Guess the fascination escapes me. I've been to two of 'em and i do believe that'll hold me for, oh, say the next odd thirty, forty years.

On the other hand, it's positively scintillating when compared with golf!

19kilo
February 21, 2003, 23:45
As earlier stated...go as fast as ruling board allows then turn left. Oh my its raining...better call off the race. We all know that none of us can drive if the track has water on it!!!
Hmmm, I guess no one has ever told F1 or WRC drivers that they should not drive in the rain! F1 / BTCC are great races to watch, but with any contrived man made race course they are made for the spectators.
In WRC (World Rally Championship) you end up driving on actual roads that the drivers have not practiced on. Also, the season takes the teams from Africa sand and heat to the snow and ice of the artic circle. Not to mention I can go down to my local Subaru dealer and buy a STi tuned WRX Impreza with 300+ hp and 300+ ft lbs of torque and have about 50% of the Soobie/Prodrive WRC car. Or at least a car that looks 95% the same.
NASCAR has only two incentives to watch...maybe someone will die in a huge crash or 2 pit crews will start a fight. Aside from that, well...no thank you, its not for me.
KILO OUT

jerrymrc
February 22, 2003, 19:47
Yes i do like NASCAR but i think it started going down hill when they switched to raidal tires. Look at some of the old races. The cars were sliding around and it made it much more of a drivers race. Now the announcer goes nuts if the car gets 2" out of shape! I grew up on Midgets,Sprint cars and what they used to call BIG CARS. Now known as the Silver Crown series. Still go to all the Midget races that i can. I am a thunderhead.

Did get to see tony run the Chili Bowl this year.

dadman
February 23, 2003, 17:08
Don't watch it, don't follow it. Used to some years ago, then realized it was pretty much the same thing most races. Go round and round, change a few drivers and the paint shceme on some cars between seasons.
World Rally Car (WRC), and Superbike races have more variation.

Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH
February 23, 2003, 17:55
It's not for everyone. I love it though. I'm really more of a short track fan, but it's all very exciting to me. The restrictor plate races are kind of boring though. The technology is just awesome. So much is learned by the Cup teams because they have the money to buy the testing equipment, and the parts and people to do it. I've learned a lot about engines from friends in Charlotte.

A 358 cubic inch Winston Cup engine now makes slightly over 800 horsepower. And that's with a flat tappet cam, 12:1 compression, an 830 cfm carb, and is durable enough to do it for over 500 miles. 500 miles, that's 2000 trips down the quarter mile before the engine can be freshened. It's hard for a drag racer to grasp that.

The drivers are athletes in the endurance sense. For the most part they are all pretty good role models. You don't see them getting busted for drugs or murder. Most like the simple things in life that most of us here do, outdoors and hunting/fishing. I'd much rather see a child of mine emulate a NASCAR driver than the average basketball/football player.

Watching it on TV does not do it justice. It's much better to be there. No comparison. It's awesome watching those guys race.....to see a group of 4 cars go side by side into a turn when there's only room for 3.........listening to thousands of horsepower come by you.......watching as one guys stay in the throttle a little longer than the rest, trying to get underneath the guy in front of him. I guess you would have to realize just how much talent it takes to build and drive those cars to appreciate it.

Everyone has their favorite driver but I miss the days of Tim Richmond. That guy used to put on a show.