PDA

View Full Version : Legal: CAI pre-ban FAL ??


Kompressor
February 09, 2003, 22:39
Heyas guys!

Local store has a CAI Sporter in stock. Guy gave me a good price because I work for a local store. Anywho, I'm looking at it, and it's got long type flash suppressor with a bayonet lug attatched. Now not a lug that looks like one, but actually is one.

On the right side of the reciever is "CAI Sporter" and the only other markings (besides serial numbrs) is under the barrel, which are the importer (someplace in VT), "Made in Canada" and CAI Sporter again.

It doesn't look like someone ripped off the muzzle break and put it on. Finish looks good. All in all, a nice rifle.

I'm interested, but not sure of the legalities, I understand the whole Assault weapon bans (89' and 94), know the 'point' system of evil features. Just want to get more import info, etc before I buy.

Thanks!

DK
February 09, 2003, 23:03
post-ban (the '89 one), tell tale is the "Sporter" moniker and the fact that Century didn't import any receivers/rifles prior to the import ban...

Most likely was imported in thumbhole stock configuration, and may be a mix of inch and metric parts.

DK

Kompressor
February 09, 2003, 23:18
Hmmm, I thought it wouldn't be pre 89.

Though, the flash hider and lug still have me a bit wary of it, does anyone know if they imported that way?

Thanks

DK
February 09, 2003, 23:21
no. they were 'neutered' prior to import. They were not 'sporting' enough with flashiders, bayo lugs, pistolgrips, etc. and so they had to remove these offending items and be renamed "Sporters" to make it through customs.

Caveat Emptor.

DK

gsmart
February 10, 2003, 14:31
In '93 and early 94 Century sold a L1A1 knockoff WITH the flashider (towards the end they started grinding off the bayo lug) and a Bell and Carlson thumbhole furniture set (stock/handguard). They probably have a questionable US parts count, but they ARE legally pre '94 ASSAULT WEAPONS ban, per Tech Branch. They are NOT in the pure sense pre-ban, as most definitions of pre-ban refer to the '89 ban. Now as to whether THIS gun falls into that category is up to you to determine (Hint: Century will give you no help whatsoever). This discussion comes up every once in a while, to quote the evil moderator:

"Do a search"

:)

sf46
February 11, 2003, 00:35
If you don't end up buying the rifle, give me the guy's phone number and/or e-mail address, as I've been looking for one of those.

762minigun
February 11, 2003, 06:25
Originally posted by gsmart
In '93 and early 94 Century sold a L1A1 knockoff WITH the flashider (towards the end they started grinding off the bayo lug) and a Bell and Carlson thumbhole furniture set (stock/handguard). They probably have a questionable US parts count, but they ARE legally pre '94 ASSAULT WEAPONS ban, per Tech Branch. They are NOT in the pure sense pre-ban, as most definitions of pre-ban refer to the '89 ban. Now as to whether THIS gun falls into that category is up to you to determine (Hint: Century will give you no help whatsoever). This discussion comes up every once in a while, to quote the evil moderator:

"Do a search"
You are absolutely correct!!!!

:)

margie
June 24, 2003, 13:21
I have the exact same problem, I was looking to sell a L1a1 I have, but I got it from a Big gun dealer and didnt think about it to much, but its a cai
marked
L1a1 sporter .308 cal
recv made by Imbel, Brazil
imported by cai vt.

I was asking the same question on the ak board, is it legal in its condition now, It has no thumbhole stock, it looks kinda like a humpback one, I do have pictures, but it does have a flash hider and a bayo lug. I dont want to sell a illegal gun, so I need to know if it needs modifying before I sell it, or is it good to go as is

captjordan
June 28, 2003, 19:29
Is there a serial number range on these CAI receivers to tell whether they are preban or not........................anyone have a list?
thanks,
jordan

Copperhead1861
November 08, 2003, 13:45
Somewhere around 1993 or 1994 several of us at my agency bought L1A1's. Mine is AD6420967.
Bolt has the crossed flags with a DM to the left of the flags.
Barrel (underside) has CAI ST ALB VI 308 cal L1A1 LITHGOW AUSTRAL
Plastic butt stock and grips.

1. Any history ideas on this weapon?

2. Any bloody idea on where this weapon falls regarding import ban?

And yes, it has the dreaded bayo lug and flash surpressor.

Oregon-Jet
November 08, 2003, 22:09
Originally posted by gunplumber
CAI FALs. There are no Pre-1989 CAI Fals. There were some post 1989 and pre-1994 thumbholes. But there were no US parts to legally conver these to "assault weapons" prior to the ban, and if not so converted, are not grandfathered. An interesting question, is

Was a rifle converted to an "assault weapon" after 1989 and before 1994, in violation of the 1989 import ban, still grandfathered? It meets all the rquirements of an assault weapon for being grandfathered under the 1994 rules. If then "corrected" with the requisite US parts post 1994, is it then legit?

I for one don't want to confuse the issue further.

All belgium Fals are preban
All SAR 48s (Springfield armory import IMBEL - Brazil) are pre 1989
all SAR4800s are postban (except one person called Springfield and reported his .223 SAR 4800 was pre 94)
All PAC import, Hesse Import, Entreprise Import, Imbels are postban
All Argie imports marked SAC Lattica inside the mag well are post 1994
Argies marked on the receiver May be preban
all DSA are postban
some Entreprise are preban
some armscorp are preban
all Gun South (GSXXXX) receivers are preban if built into complete rifles



__________________
T. Mark "Gunplumber" Graham

Also.....................

I buy one of these dumbholes in 1991-92 and think the thumhole looks stupid. I've never heard of the import ban or 18-922, so I just stick a surplus flash hider and standard lower back on the thing. I enjoy my rifle fo r several years. Then the 1994 AW ban comes along. Well my rifle has the bayonet lug, flash hider, and pistol grip, and detchable 20 round mag, so its definitely an assault weapon. So it gets grandfathered. Around 1995, I start cruising the internet and I learn about US parts - Oh no - I think - I guess my rifle needs 7 US parts. So I buy 7 US parts. My rifle now complies with the 1989 import ban. Is it staill a grandfathered assault weapon?
Also..................................... ATF "changed their minds" on the thumbhole stock. It was specifically approved (AKs and FALs) for import as a thumbhole and as a thumbhole was not an assault weapon under the import ban. But then in 1994, they decided it still was an assault weapon, just with 2 US Parts tied together in the thumbhole. Of course, this would mean it was an assault weapon PRIOR to 94 as well (grandfathered).

Thats why a new manufactured thumbhole isn't exempt from the import ban. Confused yet? Thats your tax dollars at work,.




__________________
T. Mark "Gunplumber" Graham






http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91204

vicg1
November 09, 2003, 21:58
Originally posted by gunplumber
CAI FALs. There are no Pre-1989 CAI Fals. There were some post 1989 and pre-1994 thumbholes. But there were no US parts to legally conver these to "assault weapons" prior to the ban, and if not so converted, are not grandfathered.

You forgot one thing... it was perfectly legal to retrofit an import to an originally non-importable condition up until 11/90.

Also, I have a Century gun, from them in "preban" state, SN 4XX, that I bought in 1989... not marked "made in CA", not marked "sporter", not marked with any city/state... nothing but "CAI 4XX" on the receiver.

OODA_Loop
November 10, 2003, 08:39
"Somewhere around 1993 or 1994 several of us at my agency bought L1A1's....

1. Any history ideas on this weapon?

2. Any bloody idea on where this weapon falls regarding import ban?"

Copperhead, I distinctly remember Century selling L1A1 parts kits to the masses at that time in SHOTGUN NEWS, and L1A1 rifles to LEOs. I suspect you have the latter if it is in original military configuration. How was it papered?

I remember reading the review in American Rifleman on the thumbhole rifles - made with inch lowers and metric upper (UK and Argie) and other mixmaster parts. Ugly but works fine.

As to where it falls regarding the import ban, I'd be tempted to leave it alone; you may have some sort of status if you got it as an LEO. Ask ATFE tech branch, or just don't tell anyone? ;)

bill3rail
March 20, 2004, 10:23
Originally posted by Kompressor
Heyas guys!


I'm interested, but not sure of the legalities, I understand the whole Assault weapon bans (89' and 94), know the 'point' system of evil features. Just want to get more import info, etc before I buy.

Thanks!

I am in a similar situation myself, but with a private sale. There seems to be alot of questionable areas about CAI! I do not want to add it to my safe unless I can guarantee that it is 100% legal. I guess that I could buy it and keep it in a friends (LEO) safe. I just do not want there to be any chance that I loose what little gun rights I have left in NYS.

Thanks,

Bill

duey
March 26, 2004, 01:02
Kinda late but here's my 5 cent. G.P. quote pretty much hit the mark IMO. A while back I read thru the laws and could not find anything to address said quote. Now.. I'm not a law guy, but I can read, at least my high school diploma sez I can. Everyone plays it safe (at least board members) because laws can't address every "what if" situation.

rain
May 03, 2004, 20:15
Perhaps we should start filling in details with receiver p/n's as we find information out about Guns that we are familiar with to help each other out.

When I wrote CENTURY about an IMBEL receiver p/n 119xxx the response that I received dated the build in 1996, noted that it should have the toilet seat stock, no muzzle device, and very few U.S. built parts.
I was hopeful, but honestly not surprised to find that this was not a pre-'94 build. (Despite information otherwise.)

Good luck to the rest of you.