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Thomas Paine
January 31, 2001, 22:30
This was posted on the Freepers boards and I got it in a email from an email list. I can't vouche for it but it feels right. What do y'all think?

How Russians "Sunk" USS Kitty Hawk (Far Worse Than USS Cole)

Source: Officer aboard USS Kitty Hawk

Details are now emerging of an incident far worse than the USS Cole damage.

News Item: Russian claims that it made two flights directly over the U.S.S.
Kitty Hawk (CVA-63) Oct. 17 and Nov. 9 in the Sea of Japan without being
detected (PF, Dec. '00). Using a pair of Su-27 fighters and Su-24
reconnaissance aircraft, Russia said it was able to approach the carrier
without being detected by its air defenses.

The Russians subsequently e-mailed pictures the Sukhoi pilots had taken of
the Kitty Hawk directly to the ship, complete with a brief written message.
The photos showed the deck of the ship while it was refueling, admitted
Admiral Steve Pietropaoli. The planes were within a few hundred feet of the
ship, he conceded last month. "On October 17, they were actually quite
close, and I have to admit that I misspoke about this last time based on
misinformation," Pentagon Spokesman Ken Bacon said.

And where are the pictures? The Pentagon classified them and the Russian
message because, uh, well ... it's top secret (from us?).

An eyewitness report on the Russian flyover by an F/A-18 Hornet pilot who
wishes to remain anonymous because heads are going to roll.

By A Hornet Jock

"I was on the bridge BS'ing with my executive officer when we heard on the
CO's squawk box a call from CIC (Combat Information Center). "Sir, we are
getting indications of Russian fighter activity," he said. The CO's first
response was, "Launch the alert fighters." Combat told him the highest
alerts were Alert 30's. {alert 30 means they can be off the deck in 30
minutes. Totally inadequate state of readyness in today's work) The Captain
got ****** and said, "Launch everything we got ASAP!"

I ran to the Navigator's phone and called the SDO (squadron duty officer).
Our squadron didn't have alert duty that day -- bummer -- so I told him to
find out who did and to get their *** moving up to the flight deck (only in
"alert 7's" are you actually sitting on the flight deck ready to go, "alert
30's" means you are in the ready room).

Anyways, 40 min after the CO called away the alerts, a Russian Su-27
Flanker and Su-24 Fencer made a 500 knot, 200 foot pass directly over the
tower. It was just like in Top Gun, shoes (ship's company) on the bridge
spilled coffee and everyone said, "Holllllllly Shiiitttt!" I looked at the
captain at this point and his face was red. He looked like he just walked
in on his wife getting boned by a Marine.

The Sukhoi's made two more high speed, low altitude passes before we
finally launched the first aircraft off the deck -- an EA-6B Prowler!

That's right -- we launched a ****ing Prowler (an electronic
countermeasures aircraft, usually unarmed) and he ended up in a one v one
(dogfight) with a Flanker just in front of the ship. The Flanker was all
over his *** -- kind of like a bear batting around a little bunny right
before he eats it. He was screaming for help when finally a Hornet from our
sister squadron (I use this term in its literal sense, because they looked
like a bunch of ****ing girls playing with the Sukhois they way they did)
got off the deck and made the intercept.

It was too late. The entire crew watched overhead as the Russians made a
mockery of our feeble attempt of intercepting them ... The funny part of
the story was the Admiral and the CAG (air group commander) were in their
morning meeting in the War Room and they were interrupted by the thundering
roar of the Russians buzzing the tower.

A CAG staff dude told me they looked at each other and looked at our
Airplan, noticed we didn't have flights scheduled until a few hours from
now, and said, "What was that?"

Four days later the Russian intelligence agency e-mailed the CO of the
Kitty Hawk and enclosed pictures they had taken of dudes scrambling around
the flight deck frantically trying to get airborne. I'm quite sure the
****ing loser shoe boy (surface warfare officer) in charge of our battle
group's air defense was fired. It's also ironic that the Admiral's change
of command occurred just a few weeks prior to this incident.

Anyways, the Russians tried to come out a few other times and we were more
than ready. I personally intercepted an IL-38 May and shoved my wingtip in
front of his windscreen to prevent him from turning towards the ship (yeah,
yeah ... we're friends now).

In typical Navy Senior Officer Knee jerk fashion our entire airwing stood
alerts around the clock as if WW III was going to break out any time. I got
vectored and was instructed to intercept ... and escort several "contacts
of interest." One of them was an Aeroflot A320. There were a few more that
were even less threatening; it was ridiculous.

This story was plastered all over Russian and Japanese newspapers. The
Russians even awarded their aircrew medals for their achievement. What a
****ing shame! I felt like I was on the Bad News Bears and we got our
assess kicked and I didn't even get off the bench to help the team."

RRotz
January 31, 2001, 22:40
oh boy.

gunplumber
January 31, 2001, 22:59
I was coming home on leave in '87 and was sitting next to a catapult crewman from the enterprise, who told me a similar story. They got a low Altitude buz from a turboprop Bear bomber that was flying so low and slow they didn't even pick it up until it was in visual range. And it was over them and leaving before the first friendlies wre scrambled.



------------------
T. Mark "Gunplumber" Graham
gunplumber@arizonaresponsesystems.com
Arizona Response Systems
5501 North 7th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85013
623-873-1410 http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

Mycroft
January 31, 2001, 23:03
That story has been ricocheting aroung FreeRepublic for months, since at least the time of the *Kursk* incident. Lots of questions but not many answers yet. There has been an interesting reference to a "plasma stealth" device that the Russians are experimenting with. The Kitty Hawk overflight might've been a test of that system. To me, the fighter jock's account sounds credible enough and the ship *was* in the area described at that time. This might be a bit of an embellishment, but *something* did happen.

Ropes4u
January 31, 2001, 23:31
I have a great pic of a bear about 200 yards of the port side of the USS David R Ray DD-971 from the late 80's. The ship was fully aware that she was crossing our path though - thats why there were so many squids on deck.

Ropes

Paul
February 01, 2001, 00:07
In condition III steaming the aircraft couldn't have come closer that about 32 miles. The SPS-48 and SPS-49 radars that the carriers have scan from the sea return up to near outer space. If there had been an surface warfare escort they would have smoked the Soviets at about 80 miles out. What happens during peace time is a bit different that wartime steaming. Still someone in the Zulu module was asleep at the wheel and same in CDC - nothing should have come this close without warning.

I have pictures of Soviet bomber rear gunners drinking coke and giving our fighters the thumbs up as they stack above and below each of their wingtips.

We once put an HS-60 off the bridge of a Krivack Frigate back in the day (about 30 feet off their deck and about 50 feet from thier pilot house). The we then used our plane guard to set a pick for us (USS Midway). Once we had a straight shot into the wind we launched F-4 Phantoms. Our plane guard started toward our wake while the Phantoms climbed out of sight into the clouds. The fighter bombers then did dive bombing runs breaking the sound barrier time and time again over the small Russian ship - this shakes the heck out of the ship each pass. Not a single Soviet sailor was visible while half our crew was on the flight deck mooning them - I had it all on video tape that was take by a CVIC officer for "further analysis" ...

Good natured fun stuff like this happened all the time. Our submarines would penetrate their battle groups and pop green flares to indicate a virtual kill. The Soviets don't come out to play with us anymore.

In the Persian Gulf (which I'm still coming home from after five months) nothing was permitted too close to us. We'd have the NATO SeaSparrow Missile Launchers, Close-in Weapons Systems and .50 caliber machine guns manned 7 x 24. Every fixed wing and helecopter was investigated and we had CAP (combat air patrol) and an E2C+ Hawkeye radar plane in the air nearly constantly.

The little Sukhoi fighter bombers might have hurt the Kitty had they attacked but unless they used nuclear weapons the few thousand pounds of weapons wouldn't have sunk her. Messed her up but I hope it would take more to sink a +75,000 ton ship. A Bear or Badger with their Siren or Shipwreck missiles would have been a bigger worry.

We've spend the last couple of days off loading several million pounds of explosives and missiles and will be home next month after a six month WestPac deployment - my sixth and last http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif

FALshot
February 01, 2001, 01:26
Thanks for the post Thomas, this one happens to be right up my alley.

My Father did two tours in VietNam on the Hawk, (A Kitty Hawk Triple Centurion) my Brother did a world cruse on Kitty Hawk, and I did a WESTPAC on the Hawk and have sixty one traps aboard Kitty Hawk in S3 Vikings. (Third crewman operating anti submarine gear)

I also realize that you just happen to be the messenger. Although SOMETHING must have happened, I will tell you with one hundred percent certainty that "Hornet Jock" is either fictitous, or some kind of Tom Clancy wantabe bull shit artist who knows a few of the terms, but is far lacking from being the real thing. Guaranteed!!!

First, for God's sakes, even if the Russians were doing a Mach II pass, at sea you can see them coming, (and hear them before you see them) so that NO FLY OVER will cause Naval Avaitors to spill their coffee. NONE...........EVER! I wish some of you had some idea of the crap our own Air Crews pull in terms of "Fly Overs" so that you would have an idea of just how silly this is. What do you guys think the Russians were flying, the Star Ship Enterprise at warp speed? This kind of bull crap makes me want to toss my cookies it's so Hollywood!

Next, NO Officer or for that matter an Enlisted Puke, (I can call them that because I was one) would refer to the Captain of the Kitty Hawk as, "The Captain", although in the Navy a Captain is a rank, (O-6) the captain of the ship is referred to as "Skipper", "The Skipper" or "The Old Man", but NEVER "The Caaptain"! Jeeze, anyone who's done any time in Naval Aviation in most any capacity, can see "Hornet Jock" for the "Bullshit Jock" he is!

Then the Russians did two more passes before the Hawk lanched a EA6B Prowler? Come frigging on! I don't know what Army analogy to come up with to translate to you guys familar with the Army or Marines just how completely full of dog poo poo this "Hornet Jock's" account is, but believe me, IT'S REAL DEEP!!!

At Sea in the lowest grade alert, a U.S. Navy Carrier could have aircraft "Feet Wet" in three to five minutes TOPS!!!! I DON'T mean a Prowler, I mean a Tom Cat followed by about five or six more fifteen to thirty seconds apart, and you can bet your life on it!

Then this account goes from laughable, to the complete absurd with this chump's account of a DOG FIGHT between the Russians and a Prowler! (I wish you all could see me laughing my butt off)

We intercept them, and they intercept us, ALL THE TIME, while I'm sure there's been some "Hankey pankey" now and then, (My father has told me stories of flipping them off and vice versa) they don't dog fight. Do you realize what kind of International incident could be created if they had a Mid Air?

Oh, and the part about the Prowler being "Usually unarmed"? How about ALWAYS unarmed, as in NEVER had weapons aboard in an operational capacity, EVER! (But the Hawk would scramble a four man crew for a Prowler when they could have a Tom Cat driver and his RIO or a Hornet out in two to five minutes?) Yeah RIGHT! Oh, a Prowler can do things with microwaves that would blow your mind, and they do have some "Chaff", (high tech aluminum wool/foil they can "Blow out" to confuse radar etc.) but jeeze guys, how gullible do the freak show geeks who start this crap think we are?

I'm sure the real story will come out some day, but one thing all of you can be sure of, THIS AINT IT!

Bill Woodward
"FALshot"

P.S. Mark, I don't doubt your story that a deck ape, (what we call cat crewman) told you when you saw him on your way home for leave in 87. Mistakes do happen, and it sounds a little more believable because it was fairly common for the Air Crews to see their long range birds like a Bear, but they're so slow, (relatively speaking) that it must have been a major SNAFU one to have one come in without intercept. It's a stretch, but possible. If something like this did happen, you can bet your butt some major league shit came rolling down from the Skipper of Enterprise after this one!



[This message has been edited by FALshot (edited February 01, 2001).]

Enquiring Minds
February 01, 2001, 02:11
I blame all lapses in military readiness on former (YESSSS!) el-President-ay Beel Cleen-ton, and will continue to do so until W signs his first budget, which is many months away.

FastReb
February 01, 2001, 02:31
Paul, are you a USS Neverdock a.k.a. USS Midway CV-41 alumni? I just ask because I was Class of '81-'83, with VA-115.

RRotz
February 01, 2001, 03:04
the fact remains no matter how embellished, the ruskies got within pissing distance of our carrier and could have very well turned final and landed on the damn thing. man, i'd turn the CIWS's on full blast just to show a bit of nutsack after getting caught napping like that.

Thomas Paine
February 01, 2001, 05:43
Thanks Fal Shot. I was an 11b10 (Infantryman) back in the day and the only experience I've had with naval aviators is when the Intruders would fly over when we were in the South Rainier Training Area on Ft. Lewis.
I appreciate all the imput as that's why I put tid bits like this out. The firearms boards on the net have the most complete selection of background and life experience of any of the boards around.

Thomas Paine
February 01, 2001, 05:46
Originally posted by Mycroft:
There has been an interesting reference to a "plasma stealth" device that the Russians are experimenting with. The Kitty Hawk overflight might've been a test of that system.

Good point, the russians it has recently been revealed are working on the full developement of a lot of N. Telsa's theories and devices. So who knows.

Cybercop
February 01, 2001, 07:23
I find this story a bit difficult to belive, If I remember correctly there should have been an Ageis class escort nearby. And that fixed array antennas can pump out several million watts of microwave radiation when in a narrow focus mode, hell any aircraft within 5 miles would glow! (Not to mention the pilots would become sterile.)

FALshot
February 01, 2001, 07:40
Hey Thomas,

Funny thing, my Father flew Intruders out of NAS Whidbey Island. (VA-52) Depending on the time frame it's quite possible that one of those Intruders that buzzed you was him.

Another thing that got me to thinking about this story, where were the Hawk's escorts? I mean a one in a million break down on the part of Kitty Hawk's defenses, but all of their escorts too?

I don't recall anything in the mainstream press, okay, I know for all of the conspiracy folks out there, (the government stifled the story) but it was mentioned this incident was widely reported in the Russian and Japanese press. The Kitty Hawk is now home ported in Yokosuka, and I'm sure if this is a valid report it would have been all over the Japanese press.

yorick
February 01, 2001, 16:21
Falshot, I don't know about the original story, but as an S3 crewman you probably don’t' have the time on the bridge (or in tower) to make any kind of judgement about that story. While improbable, nothing about the story as related is “unbelievable” in the sense that it couldn’t happen on any CV. (you want unbelievable, I’ll tell you the story about a F14 jock who landed on the wrong CV in the Persian gulf, you can bet the airboss spilled his coffee when he saw that idiot on final)

Originally posted by FALshot:


First, for God's sakes, even if the Russians were doing a Mach II pass, at sea you can see them coming, (and hear them before you see them) so that NO FLY OVER will cause

You can't hear them coming if they are flying at mach 2, just like you can't hear a supersonic bullet coming, you hear it after it goes by...basic physics (or don't they teach that in aviation tech school?) Also, it is VERY difficult to see a haze gray fast moving aircraft against the haze gray sea and sky, that is why they paint them that color. We shot down blaze orange decoys in training and sometimes you didn't see them until they were right on top of you even though you knew when and from where they were coming. Believe me, without radar there is no assurance that anyone would see a sub or supersonic incoming until it was already right on top of you. (Trust me, even super cool S3 crew weenies like FALSHOT would spill their coffee if a 50,000 lb fighter belching smoke and fire at 1200 mph blew by 200 feet over his head)


Naval Avaitors to spill their coffee. NONE...........EVER! I wish some of you had some idea of the crap our own Air Crews pull in terms of "Fly Overs" so that you would have an idea of just how silly this is. What do you guys think the Russians were flying, the Star Ship Enterprise at warp speed? This kind of bull crap makes me want to toss my cookies it's so Hollywood!


Naval Aviators are sooo cool they never spill coffee? Ummmm ok, wish I could be that cool, but I will say that a sonic boom shakes the entire 70,000 ton carrier. You can feel all the way down to the engine room (I never saw any S3 weenies in my engine room). On the bridge, it rattles and shakes around pretty good, certainly enough to cause an unwary coffee drinker to spill. Even been on the bridge during a supersonic flyby? I have. If the skipper or airboss wasn't expecting it you can bet they would be surprised enough to spill their coffee (and then go ballistic).


Next, NO Officer or for that matter an Enlisted Puke, (I can call them that because I was one) would refer to the Captain of the Kitty Hawk as, "The Captain", although in the Navy a Captain is a rank, (O-6) the captain of the ship is referred to as "Skipper", "The Skipper" or "The Old Man", but NEVER "The Caaptain"! Jeeze, anyone who's done any time in Naval Aviation in most any capacity, can see "Hornet Jock" for the "Bullshit Jock" he is!


I refered to my skipper as The Captain all the time when speaking to civilians. So did most of the officers. It really depends on the ship and the people. You spend one WESTPAC aboard as an airwing weenie (most wing weenies I knew spent most of the trip sleeping or trying to pick up hookers in PI, how much time did you spend in CIC or on the bridge or in the tower?) and you think you know it never happens? Ever? On any CV? Get real...


Then the Russians did two more passes before the Hawk launched a EA6B Prowler? Come frigging on! I don't know what Army analogy to come up with to translate to you guys familar with the Army or Marines just how completely full of dog poo poo this "Hornet Jock's" account is, but believe me, IT'S REAL DEEP!!!

At Sea in the lowest grade alert, a U.S. Navy Carrier could have aircraft "Feet Wet" in three to five minutes TOPS!!!! I DON'T mean a Prowler, I mean a Tom Cat followed by about five or six more fifteen to thirty seconds apart, and you can bet your life on it!


Don’t bet you life on it. You would lose. He said they were on Alert 30. Do you know what that means FALSHOT? IT MEANS IT TAKE A MIMIMUM OF 30 MINUTES TO GET AN AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE. If you read the first paragraph it also said the photos where taken during UNREP (underway alongside refueling) It takes 10 minutes just to execute an emergency breakaway (ask me about the one I had to do when the other ship lost power, they didn’t clear all the lines quick enough and a couple guys almost got cut in half when they snapped) The catapults probably wern't warmed up, (did you even know FALSHOT that the steam catapults need to be warmed up prior to launching? I bet not) The handler (you DO know who the handler is don't you FALSHOT? Did you ever meet him? Watch him do his job?) may not have anything ready on the flight deck. Hell the deck might even be full of jarheads doing PT. Alert 30 means 30 minutes to launch. Your claim about 5 mins max is absurd, ALERT 5 means 5 minutes to launch. On alert 5 the pilots are sitting in the cockpit, right behind the catapult, AND IT STILL TAKES 5 minutes to launch. A peacetime CV spends MOST of its time at alert 30 or LOWER readiness, the battle group counts on radar and intel (ever read an OPINT report from Space Command FALSHOT?) to let you know when they are coming. THAT’S what makes this story interesting. Intel dropped the ball.


Then this account goes from laughable, to the complete absurd with this chump's account of a DOG FIGHT between the Russians and a Prowler! (I wish you all could see me laughing my butt off)


I am certain the Prowler pilot wasn’t laughing when the Russians lit him up with their FC radar. Just because it wasn’t a furball in close and personal like red baron vs snoopy doesn’t mean there wasn’t 1 v 1 shit going on. Also “1 v 1 dogfight” doesn’t necessarily mean there was any risk of a midair.


Oh, and the part about the Prowler being "Usually unarmed"? How about ALWAYS unarmed, as in NEVER had weapons aboard in an operational capacity, EVER! (But the Hawk would scramble a four man crew for a Prowler when they could have a Tom Cat driver and his RIO or a Hornet out in two to five minutes?) Yeah RIGHT! Oh, a Prowler can do things with microwaves that would blow your mind, and they do have some "Chaff", (high tech aluminum wool/foil they can "Blow out" to confuse radar etc.) but jeeze guys, how gullible do the freak show geeks who start this crap think we are?


Prowler also carries HARM (Home On Radar Missile) did you sleep though aviation tech school FALSHOT? Crew manning isn’t the only thing that might delay the launch of a fighter. Aircraft spotting on deck, number of elevators operational, spotting in the hangar bay, weapons load outs etc all make it very possible that the EA6B may very well have been the first thing out.

Maximum range on a ship mounted radar is a function of height of mast, on my CV, we got decent coverage out to about 60 miles. Assuming an intel failure (where the only warning would be shipboard radar) at mach 2, a soviet aircraft will cover that 60 miles in less than 3 minutes. Most likely the radar either didn't pick it up, or the guy manning the radar didn't have a clue, and without OPINT warning of possible soviet activity, just blew it off as "clutter" or spent those three minutes scratching his head and wondering if he should tell the TAO (Tactical Action Officer) (ever stood a tactical watch in CIC FALSHOT? I didn't think so...)

Don’t talk shit over your head FALSHOT, it makes you look stupid.



[This message has been edited by yorick (edited February 01, 2001).]

RRotz
February 01, 2001, 16:44
man, we really took n. tesla for granted. he was a genius and died a pauper. i wish we treated people with "crazy" ideas better, we did everything to steal his designs and ideas and gave him nothing in return.

eddy m
February 01, 2001, 18:07
I wouldn't doubt that something like that could happen, maybe like all fighter jocks, the original teller embellished a bit to make it more exciting.


just my .02

Paul
February 01, 2001, 20:32
USS Midway '82-86, USS Carl Vinson '93-95, USS Abraham Lincoln '99 - current

"Prowler also carries HARM (Home On Radar Missile)" That would be the AGM-88b High Speed Anti-Radation Missile. Developed to attack hostile radars. Used as both a strike-protection and anti-ship weapon. Range 80 nautical miles depending on launch speed/altitude, speed Mach +2, warhead 145 lbs., and guidance by radar homing. Not an air to air missle but mother ('Hawk) could have engaged with NSSML at about 12 miles.

Whenever there is appoaching hostile we scramble photographer's mates to shoot pictures. It's a violation of internation law to screw with an un-rep or launch/recovery cycle - that said it happened a few times a year.

The carriers have two primary air search radars:

SPS-49: Long Range 2-D Air Search Radar, min range 500 yds Max 256 N.M. The Radar Set AN/SPS-49 is an L-band, long-range, two-dimensional, air-search radar system that provides automatic detection and reporting of targets within its surveillance volume. The AN/SPS-49 performs accurate centroiding of target range, azimuth, amplitude, ECM level background, and radial velocity with an associated confidence factor to produce contact data for command and control systems. In addition, contact range and bearing information is provided for display on standard plan position indicator consoles. The AN/SPS-49 uses a line-of-sight, horizon-stabilized antenna to provide acquisition of low-altitude targets in all sea states, and also utilizes an upspot feature to provide coverage for high diving threats in the high diver mode. Has 16 frequencies with low, medium and high for a total of 48 channels.

SPS-48E: Long range 3-D Air Search Radar, Min Range 5000 yards Max 220 N.M. The Radar Set AN/SPS-48E is a long-range, three-dimensional, air-search radar system that provides contact range, bearing, and height information to be displayed on consoles/workstations. This is accomplished by using a frequency scanning antenna which emits a range of different frequencies in the E/F band (10cm). The AN/SPS-48C Radar system is a complete system including all component elements - Transmitter, Receiver, Computer (Radar and Automatic Detection and Tracking), Frequency Synthesizer and Height Display Indicator. The AN/SPS-48E uses a combination of mechanical scanning in azimuth and electronic beam-steering in elevation to provide plan position and height information on targets. Radar videos, converted to digital format, are displayed on consoles/workstations to provide a means for the operators to perform manual radar search, detection and tracking functions.
The radar also provides accurate height data despite the fact that the antenna does not have mechanical vertical position elements. This is accomplished by factoring in the effects of pitch and roll of the ship which changes the transmitted frequency accordingly. The ship's gyro system provides the radar set with this pitch and roll data.

The marshal radar (SPN-43) also would have picked them up about 50 miles - and all three radars would have pinged the Russian IFF which would have returned a mode IV military ID and identifiable as hostile. Many operators would have had to have been asleep - 3 in Detection and Tracking and 3 more in Display and Decision.

Figures from my ESWS web site.

FALshot
February 01, 2001, 22:03
Hey Yorick:

You mentioned that "You know nothing about the original story." Well, it sounds like it may be the ONLY thing you don't know much about.

You are correct,

I have spent ZERO time on the Bridge.

I have spent Zero time in the tower.

I have NEVER stood a watch in CIC.

But you have, right? http://www.fnfal.com/forums/eek.gif

Yet, I still believe that this story IS unbelievable. But then that's just coming from an "S3 Weenie" as you put it.

It's obvious Yorick that you are a confirmed expert on U.S. (and perhaps Russian) Naval Aviation.

I NEVER said I was a "Super cool S3 crewman" Yorick, just an S3 (AW) third crewman, that's all Yorick. No more, no less, and I don't mind saying that I'm proud that I was an AW and a third crewman in S3s. But from the abundance of sarcasm in your post, you've got a big problem with it. Well Yorick, I don't know what that problem is, and quite frankly, it's your problem, and I don't care. It's obvious that you've got quite a bit of comtempt for anyone who lacks your clear and superior knowledge of Naval Aviation.

I don't doubt that you never saw any "S3 Weenies" in your engine room Yorick, why would a member of the Air Wing go to snipe's country? So, S3 crewman are "Weenies" Yorick?......Okay, I see. (Maybe just me? Don't brand all S3 crewman Yorick)

No, I didn't "Sleep through Aviation Tech School" as you put it, because I never attended a Naval School called "Aviation Tech School" Yorick. But then I'm sure you know that too! I'm sure you could tell me the entire background of an "S3 Weenie" from the time I left San Diego Yorick, but then, Why bother with the "S3 Weenies", right Yorick?

According to one of my Pals who was a AT third crewman on EA6B's, as of 1984 when we were in, all Prowlers were unarmed. But, no doubt you've got some more of your expertise to clear that one up too Yorick.

Then you mentioned a Prowler might have been the first bird out, yeah, okay Yorick, again with your stellar background in Naval Aviation, I'm sure you've got that one covered too Yorick.

So, you're an expert on CV's and Naval Aviation in general, and you've got a big problem with me. Fine Yorick, I can live with it.

You've spent time on the bridge.

You've spent time in the tower.

You know what happens in "Your engine room."

You know CIC, didn't mention that you've stood watch there, but I wouldn't doubt it with everything else you know. (or seem to)

From the sound of your post, you must be the CO of his own CV Yorick, and no doubt, with your vast knowledge, you would be able to fill a variety, if not ALL roles on a CV Yorick.

You win Yorick, you're the expert.

On a serious note I have done as exhaustive a search as "An S3 Weenie" could to confirm the validity of this story, to no avail. Maybe you could call the CNO and see if he will confirm or deny Yorick.

Bill Woodward
"FALshot" (S3 Weenie too)
Portland, OR.

yorick
February 02, 2001, 21:15
Sorry FALSHOT, I shouldn't have pissed all over your post like that...bad day...

BUFF
February 03, 2001, 03:10
My brother-in-law was a radar technician aboard the U.S.S. Ranger ("CV-By Gawd-61") for the last three years she was in the fleet. Ranger's task force were the first U.S. Navy ships off of Somalia when that mess started, and dropped more tonnage during Desert Shield and Desert Storm than any other carrier, I think.

I got the opportunity to go aboard during a "family day cruise" in the early 1990's, when Ranger was in port in San Diego. A family day cruise is when the crew can invite family members aboard ship early on a Saturday. The carrier leaves port and steams about 50 miles off of the coast, and you can tour the ship inside and out while it is underway. Once out in the ocean, the Air Wing put on a naval air power show. They block off the front part of the flight deck for most of the guests to watch from, and from the angled part, launch F-14's, A-6's, S-3's and the radar-domed radar plane (I forgot what it is called) as well as the rescue helicopters. Did all sorts of high-and low-speed flypasts, put a smoke bomb in the water a ways off and "lob-tossed" a 500 pound bomb on it from an A-6 that was about a mile away when it released the bomb, and hit within 50 feet of the smoke bomb! Catapult launches of everything, touch-and-goes, arrested landings. Incredible. Included a wings-swept-back, full-afterburners supersonic flypast by an F-14 about 200 feet off of the port side of the ship, level with the flight deck! I got a bird's eye view of the air show from way up on the island, from one of my brother-in-law's radar antenna mounts. I sure wished that I had taken a better camera with me.

For someone who had never been on a fighting ship, I was amazed at the crowded living conditions. An aircraft carrier is a large ship but it is just jammed full of machinery and fuel. Sailors live packed in like sardines. The courts won't let the prisons incarcerate criminals in the same kinds of living conditions our nation's sailors live in serving their country.

Let me tell you, the day gave me a whole new level of respect and admiration for the service provided by the good folks serving in the U.S. Navy. It was one of the most incredible days I have ever had.

BUFF

[This message has been edited by BUFF (edited February 03, 2001).]

yorick
February 03, 2001, 10:45
BUFF!

USS Ranger (CV61) was the ship I was stationed on 88-92. I was the special detail (in & out of port, anchoring, night ops etc) Officer of the Deck (resp for safe navigation & operation of the vessel underway...sub. to the skipper of course). Spring of '92 we did a reenactment of the Jimmy Doolitle launch, CAF (confederate air force)craned a B25 Mitchel aboard at NAS Naval Island, we went out and she took off from the carrier deck. We made 35 knots of wind and she floated up and out easy as can be, the original raid aircraft had considerably more weight on aboard (fuel and bombs) so I am sure it wasn't so easy back then.

I may well have been on the bridge the day you went out, did you tour the bridge? Not many got a chance (long lines, tight quarters) but we had some of the visiting kids "take the helm" once we got clear of the harbor http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif

It was cool to do those cruises because once you get out past 12 miles, the jets can fly supersonic down low. FAA regs prohibit that sort of thing in CONUS, at least anywhere where we can watch http://www.fnfal.com/forums/wink.gif

Somewhere I have some pics, I'll have to scrounge around and see if I can get any scanned if ya'll are interested.

Trebor
February 03, 2001, 14:04
This is in the current (Feb 2001) issue of "Air Force Magazine, The Journal of the Air Force Association."

I'm just reprinting it here,and make no claims for it's ultimate accuracy.

It is interesting to read between teh lines a little though. "..Saw no reason to break off refueling operations" uh huh, sounds like a rationalizatoin to me, and "Inexplicably e-mailed photos to the Kitty Hawk>" Sounds likes the Russkies twisting the Hawk's tail a little.

pg. 16

More Cold War Cat and Mouse?

Russian military aircraft buzzed the aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk on two occassions this fall, the Dept of Defense has confirmed.

Both incidents occurred while the carrier was on maneubers in the Sea of Japan. The Cold War style incidents contributed to the heightened alert status of the Kitty Hawk group.

"They have changed their procedures to deal with flyovers like this," said Pentagon Spokesman Ken Bacon. He declined to provide details other than to say the alert posture had been enhanced.

The first incident took place Oct 17. Two Russian jets an SU 24 and an SU 27 came within a few hundred feet of the giant US warship.

Navy aircraft were delayed getting into the air to chase the interlopers because the carrier was refuiling and the commander saw no need to break off refueling operations, according to Bacon.

"Those planes were acquired by the battle groups radar at some distance off," he said. "they were followed."

Then on Nov 9 two Russian aircraft overflew Kitty Hawk at 1,000 to 2,000 feet.

The Russians, inexplicabley, E-mailed to Kitty Hawk some reconnaissance photos taken by the airplanes.

US officials said the overflights were nothing more than a curiousity. THey have downplayed the signifance of Russian Tu 95 bombers being moved to Siberian Air Bases close to US Alaskan airspace.

"we regard the Cold War as being over," Bacon said.


Trebor

BUFF
February 03, 2001, 16:47
Yorick:

I just checked the photo albums, and the family day cruise was in March of '92. Yes, we did tour the bridge. Brother-in-law took me and his brother on his own ship's tour, rather than the organized tours. We visited the catapult sections, the arresting gear sections, the air-defense sections that operate the PHALANX (sp?) and missles, as well as the section his radar and computers were in, the section of the bridge area that controls the air ops (sort of like the air traffic control tower at an airport, where his particular radar has it's 'screen' consoles, his radar was the system that is used for landing the aircraft back on the ship), the bridge where the helm and such are and a bunch of other places. So it looks like we probably were in the same room at the same time!

Small world, but I'd hate to have to paint it.

BUFF

[This message has been edited by BUFF (edited February 03, 2001).]