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View Full Version : Legal: "replacement parts only" means what???


Jailer90
December 12, 2002, 09:51
what do the dealers mean by this??? Does it mean you cant build a rifle using kits so labeled, like FAC's??
Gotta be an ATF thing so it must mean an import date, whats the date and how can you tellwhen your parts were imported?:uhoh:

cc48510
December 12, 2002, 10:14
It is a dumb admonishmnet. Apparently, the ATF stated it might go after importers who sold guns that were subsequently assembled into illegal guns. As a result, a trade group advised importers to mark their kits "For Replacement Parts Only" to cover their asses...

You can build on it as long as you follow the law (AW Ban, etc...)

EMDII
December 12, 2002, 10:48
Please look at these thread Titles (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=108992&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending). Those that apply (it'll be obvious) tell you this story:

- You may NOT assemble a non-compliant SAAW (semi-automatic assault weapon) with these kits. The "LCMM + 1 Evil Feature" rules still apply.
- You may NOT violate the Import Ban. NO more than 10 EFPs (Evil Foreign Parts) in your COMPLIANT rifle.

Please look through those threads.

Jailer90
December 12, 2002, 10:52
S.S.D.G. Like the AK, Same S*** Different Gun. Thanks .

HATCH
December 13, 2002, 09:35
Basically in a nut shell.

If you import the weapon, then you can not build it to become a new weapon.
Now you can sell the parts of the weapon to a wholesaler with the stipulation that he can't build it to a weapon.
But if the wholesaler sells the parts only to the end user, then the end user can build it to a weapon.

It was designed so that the importer can't import parts to make complete weapons in the US. So you have to be like 3rd in line in order to build the weapon.
THAT IS HOW I READ THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

slimshady
December 15, 2002, 09:13
ATF is either re-interpreting the rules or has just made new ones up. They now say that imported bbls and receivers cannot be imported for the purpose of building a new rifle, that they can only be used for repair and/or replacement on an existing rifle. In order to get the import paperwork approved, the importer has to state that they are for repair/replacement only. They prominently advertise these as repair/replacement parts only because to do otherwise would open them up to perjury charges ( You LIED on your federal forms, here you are selling these as the basis of a new rifle! That's it for you, then!) It also prevents them from assembling new rifles themselves with these parts. HOWEVER, this has nothing to do with you and me, the end user. We simply buy the parts, being careful to not inform the importer of our intentions (Avoids that "conspiracy" thing) and merrily go about our business. Until they change their regs yet again and apply this nonsense to us too!

FWRA
December 15, 2002, 10:41
Originally posted by slimshady
ATF is either re-interpreting the rules or has just made new ones up. They now say that imported bbls and receivers cannot be imported for the purpose of building a new rifle, that they can only be used for repair and/or replacement on an existing rifle. In order to get the import paperwork approved, the importer has to state that they are for repair/replacement only. They prominently advertise these as repair/replacement parts only because to do otherwise would open them up to perjury charges ( You LIED on your federal forms, here you are selling these as the basis of a new rifle! That's it for you, then!) It also prevents them from assembling new rifles themselves with these parts. HOWEVER, this has nothing to do with you and me, the end user. We simply buy the parts, being careful to not inform the importer of our intentions (Avoids that "conspiracy" thing) and merrily go about our business. Until they change their regs yet again and apply this nonsense to us too!

Excellent post slimshady. That tells it exactly as it is and the companies selling these kits would be wise not to advise folks as to the "buildability" of them into rifles for that same conspiracy issue. As long as it's all done quietly and we build for ourselves then all should be fine. (at least for the foreseeable future)

Some kits came in prior to the "repair and/or replacement" rulings (like Dan's Sporting Goods imbel kits) and don't have that disclaimer. Those kits could be built by US FAL manufacturers if they so desired. I think the day will come when we will have kit availability for "replacement" but no barrels will be allowed in which will make existing barrels a premium. I hope I'm wrong.

Mark Powell

EMDII
December 15, 2002, 12:02
Can anyone point to the ATF letter that says that the Importer 'may not' assemble a new rifle. The local ATF guy I spoke to said the stamping applied only to compliance, not the creation of 'new' rifles'. AFAIK, there is no ruling, letter, or CFR 'commentary' in this regard.
(however, I don't do the CFR search as well as might be imagined!)

slimshady
January 03, 2003, 02:17
IIRC, there is a industry newsletter from one of the importers professional orgs that contains the info on this. A few sites had it posted, but I never bookmarked them. You might try a google search.

FWRA
January 03, 2003, 08:24
Here's a link to that Trade Group info:

http://www.falparts.com/ftg.gif

Blag
January 04, 2003, 08:34
Originally posted by EMDII
Can anyone point to the ATF letter that says that the Importer 'may not' assemble a new rifle. ...

The Trade Group notice says no new "non-sporting" rifles. But we already knew that.

A true FAL is prohibited from import, since it's defined by Congress as an evil non-sporting black instrument of death. Oh dear, boo hiss. So, imported FAL parts may not be used to build a true FAL, as it would be prohibited from import. However, if a person already has a true FAL, grandfathered in, the parts may be used for repair or replacement on it.

At the point of entry, true FAL parts are indeed honest-to-goodness FAL parts, (as to the receivers and barrels, anyway, since those are mentioned in the law.) Thus, in relation to them being real FAL parts, they may only be used for repair or replacement on a real FAL.

"Repair or replacement" means in regard to the use of real FAL parts on a real FAL or a duplicate as the law says.

But concerning rifles that are not real FALs, not duplicates, and that are instead sporting rifles, as the law defines it, the parts are simply parts. However, the builder must insure he builds a legal sporting rifle. As EMD mentions, the rifle must comply with the "assault weapon" law and the "parts count" rule. The rifle will then be a Made in U.S.A. sporting rifle, and not an imported assault weapon.

As government policy, the purpose is to stop the manufacture of new "assault weapons" - as the law defines it - as far as civilians go, anyway, and to grab the importers by the short hairs in connection with that policy.

Just build a U.S. made sporting rifle, and you're ok.

EMDII
January 04, 2003, 09:36
Blag has stated it more completely. For those who just have to read the Regs-
178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

Here is the exact text as shown as Firearms and Explosive Import Branch (FEIB):

NOTE: The barrels, frames, and/or receivers authorized
for importation by this permit may only be used in the
assembly of firearms eligible for importation pursuant to
18 U.S.C, 925(d)(3).

18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3)

NOTE: The barrels, frames, and/or receivers authorized
for importation by this permit may only be used for
repair or replacement and MAY NOT be used to
assemble new firearms that would be prohibited from
importation pursuant to 18 U.S.C, 925(d)(3).

18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3)

You may find the list of Import Orders HERE at the FEIB website (http://atf.treas.gov/firearms/feib/index.htm).

That is the ENTIRE extent of the Regs, as-posted at BATF/FEIB. Don't read anything into it: Law is exclusive- if it doesn't say 'x', then 'x' doesn't apply. We may NOT assemble PROHIBITED firearms as described in 925(d)(3). That is ALL.

BTW- here is what 925(d)(3) has to say:
(3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Secretary has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; or

Again, we have NOT imported military surplus firearms, we have imported PARTS! So long as you comply w/ the Import and AW Ban requirements, you have, by Law, built a firearm for 'sporting purposes'. It cannot be anything else, legally.

Regal Beagal
January 04, 2003, 19:52
Well, I was getting ready to ask this question when I saw that someone else had already begun a thread pertaining to these regulations. I was in the company of a friend of mine who in conversation said, "You know the recent kits that DSA and others are selling can no longer be assembled into weapons?" I said,"What? I haven't heard anything new pertaining to the change in regulations and laws." He says,"Yah, the ATF has created new regs under 950 something that says that after a certain importation date that these are to be used as only replacement parts. " Of course, I said, "Well I'll check the regs and console with others to see if this is true or if someone is starting a falacy." He says,"Oh I know it's true because I read the new regulations." I pretty much let it drop after that knowing full well that I haven't read or heard anything of the sort. Can anyone varify this new"950 something" ATF regulation? Otherwise, I'm still going to buy an Imbel kit and build me a "Sporting Rifle" whose main purpose will be for deer hunting. RB

EMDII
January 05, 2003, 08:07
The reference I have cited to the FEIB list or Orders is THE LATEST. Ergo, all these stamped boxes, bags, and barrels are so-marked to preclude assembling new non-compliant weapons. NO 950 'order' or 'new regs' exist whatsoever, and ATF has published no 'announcement of rule-making' in the Federal Register.

Tell your friend to go do his homework before he spreads dumb rumors. Or have HIM click on the link to the Import Orders (above) and read it himself.

:rolleyes:

Regal Beagal
January 05, 2003, 09:06
Ted,
Thanks for the "950 Something" dismissal. He's a non-computer type who belives that the gov. is keeping track of us by our computer. Okay, there may be some truth to that but who cares they have enough information on all of us already. Anyway, I'm going to print off the regs for him so he can actually "read" them for himself. RB

EMDII
January 05, 2003, 09:30
RB-

It's gets SO corny. Sarco selling new 'pre-ban' IMBEL receivers. Sheesh! What tripe! Anyway, the last order is quite specific (FEIB 'Notes' above) in saying that we cannot assemble non-compliant rifles. That's all. Thanks for the patience. Hope your bud works it out.

renaissance_warrior
March 06, 2004, 02:22
Hey all, saw some guy selling FAL trigger spring kits that dropped pull to about 3.5 to 4 lbs. he wanted $17 bucks! I located the website with google (Love it) and found the RETAIL was 14! :rolleyes: Looks like they do nothing but springs, and they are all stainless hybrids. . Too bad they don't help the compliance count :sad: BTW, fascinating reading on the regs. Methinks they have put themselves into the regulatory corner with this. I'd love to buy the brilliant lobbyist with foresight lotsa :beer: . These regs are drafted after 'comment' (lobbyists) at least somebody at the NRA was awake at the time. :bow:

Joerkol
November 14, 2004, 13:13
I have had L1A1's STG58's and now I have to chang the parts in them ?? I have not been on this site for a long time because it was down and could not get into it what parts do i have to change and why? I use mine for deer hunting!!
Joe

Rooster
November 14, 2004, 17:25
Originally posted by Joerkol
I have had L1A1's STG58's and now I have to chang the parts in them ?? I have not been on this site for a long time because it was down and could not get into it what parts do i have to change and why? I use mine for deer hunting!!
Joe

Just make sure that no more than 10 of the following parts listed in blue on your rifle are foreign made.

(1) Frames receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel Extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods (charging handle)
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings (lower receiver)
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

Simian_AK
July 09, 2005, 04:42
Wow.... and now all this talk of a barrel ban

simian

Super B
August 10, 2005, 12:57
Banning imported barrels will just give us one more compliant part to put on our guns

FAL Banger
May 02, 2006, 19:25
There is nothing to worry about. Hell, you can't find a upper receiver to build anything on anyway. Legal or any other way. Yeah, sour grapes.