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gman552
August 17, 2002, 23:13
Greetings all, it was recently pointed out to me by another FALaholic that the best match for a DSA Type 02 upper receiver would be a similar type lower receiver, such as a R1, versus an Imbel (Type 03) lower.

I was not aware that lowers were "typed" as well.

Does anyone have further info on this, as in:

- Characteristics of different type lower receivers?
- Photos of the different types?
- Sources for these lowers?

Thanks in advance.

sledgehammer
August 17, 2002, 23:44
About the only difference in a type 1 and a type 2 lower is that the type 1 has a squared off notch cut to accept the upper while the type 2 has a notch with a slight radius cut to match that upper. The differnce is very subtle, but it is there. I think Blake Stevens book show some good pics of all the variations. Quite a few of the R1 kits that I have had were the type 2. I have also seen several StG 58 lowers with the type 2 cut.

gman552
August 17, 2002, 23:50
Thanks for the info - does a Type 03 lower look different from the earlier types? The reason I'm asking is that I'm planning to build a Dan's Imbel kit (Type 03) on a DSA Type 02 upper - will this appear mismatched or just plain crappy-looking?

Mosin Guy
August 17, 2002, 23:54
Basicly it has to do with the scalloped cutouts on the bottom edge of your recoil plate on your lower reciever,the Type 1 lowers have a 90 degree cutout on the bottom edge which matches the machining of the side relief cuts in the Upper reciever,the Type 2 lower has a arched or radius cutout in the same location of the bottom edge of the recoil plate which also matches the radius of the type 2 upper reciever,the Type 3 has No cutouts or radius cuts at all which also match the Type 3 upper recievers,the whole idea behind type 1 reciever side cuts was to reduce weight,the Type 2 uppers and lowers were more for heavy rifle use in sustained fire situations and to suposedly to reduce cracking of the recievers,the Type 3 recievers were to save time and money in the machining operations.HTH

Radio
August 18, 2002, 02:09
Metric lower receiver ("Trigger Mechanism Housing," or TMH) types all deal with the shape of the recoil plate, as it matches the upper receiver.

A Type-I upper on a Type-II lower is a very close match, same vice-versa. Either on a Type-III upper or lower is an obvious mis-match... and I would venture the opinion is the most common of builds (IMBEL Type-III upper on an StG or R1 kit).

None of this is particularly obvious except to the practiced eye.

The only other variations I am aware of in Metric-pattern lower receivers are: the presence or lack of lightening cuts inside the TMH, and the variation of selector (or "change lever") markings on the outside of the TMH, with three main subgroups being Austrian/German, Belgian/South African/IMBEL etc, and Israeli.

Not including the Para here. Nor the Inch pattern or "Commonwealth" (Australian, British, Canadian, Indian) rifles.

--Radio

Gaspipe
August 18, 2002, 10:36
http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=Gaspipe&album_id=45419&image_id=10&courtesy=1

The pic isn't so good, because it's hastily made :D

But if you follow the red lines [Printroom has an amazing ability to make pics not so good either] to the recoil plate, you'll see the slight cutouts on the lower edge of each recoil plate. The left one is a Type 01 from an StG, the middle one is a Type 02 [also from an StG], and the right is an Imbel. The differences are rather subtle. The Type 02 has a slightly more radiused cut than a Type 01, whih is more 'square'. The Type 03, of course, has no cut in the recoil plate.

HTH,

JeffJ
August 18, 2002, 11:33
Would a type I not look right with a para lower??

gman552
August 18, 2002, 12:34
Gaspipe, thanks for taking the time to shoot an excellent photo (no, really, it shows the important details clearly :)). OK, so will I be mocked and shunned at the next FAL shoot if I show up with the Imbel Type 03 lower on a DSA Type II upper, or should I look for a Type 02 lower?

I understand that most available Type 02 lowers are from South African R1 kits, which have seen a lot of heavy use. In terms of durability, should I stick with the Imbel lower, which were "carried a lot, shot little", even if it's not exactly the correct type? What about having the corner of the recoil plate radiused to match the upper?

Or is this all a "tempest in a teacup", and no one will really give a rat's ass? :D After all, it's not like this build is a preban.

Gaspipe
August 18, 2002, 17:32
Gman & Jeff:

FWIW, the recent import Argy para lowers I have seen are type 03. I dunno about any others [never seen one....:( ]

Any lower will work just fine with any upper. You can even mix and match inch and metric stuff without too much trouble, but there are some rules to adhere to. As far as mix/match, it's really purely a matter of what 'look' you want.

I've gotten at least one G1 kit that had a type 02 lower, as well as a couple well used R1 type 02's. It is sorta fascinating for me when I get a kit and see what's what....aside from the euphoria of getting a present :D

Being of Scottish decent, I guess I am a cheap guy by nature. I am guilty of building a nice Izzy HB on a type 03, a beautiful StG on a type 03, and ratty Aussie Inch on a type 03. I also made meself a nice Aussie inch pattern on a type 01 [inch], and a cool heavy barrel carbine on a type 01 metric. And a bunch of others in between.

My thought was that if you were going to spend the premium bucks for a beautiful type 02 receiver, it sure would be sweet to have a matching lower to keep that oh, so sweet line of the type 02.

And nahhh....FAL'ers only ridicule each other in Dumping Brass. If it shoots, it's AOK.

Keep us posted on your build!

[edited because my brain thinks I can type faster than I really can...]

Gaspipe
August 18, 2002, 17:35
Originally posted by gman552
and no one will really give a rat's ass? :D After all, it's not like this build is a preban.

What matters is that it is built up the way YOU want it. :wink:

That's one of the endearing qualities of the FAL.

gunsmith_tony
August 18, 2002, 21:31
I love FAL's for that very reason. Their like 1911s. It can be pretty much whatever you want it to be.
"Mr Potato Rifle" lol

sledgehammer
August 18, 2002, 22:20
Originally posted by gman552
OK, so will I be mocked and shunned at the next FAL shoot if I show up with the Imbel Type 03 lower on a DSA Type II upper, or should I look for a Type 02 lower?

You can easily use a Dremel to cut a type 3 lower to match a type 1 or 2 upper. It is a very simple job. Remember though, measure twice and cut once.

gman552
August 18, 2002, 22:34
Thanks for all the excellent information - should this info (especially Gaspipe's photos) go into the FAQs? Maybe someone else would benefit from my ignorance (at least I hope I'm not the ONLY person who didn't know about lower receiver types :eek: )

Gaspipe
August 19, 2002, 19:05
Originally posted by gunsmith_tony
I"Mr Potato Rifle" lol

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

BWAHAHAHAHAHA....!!!!

falover
August 20, 2002, 13:16
just so you know it would not be hard to modify a type 3 lower to match up with a type 1 or 2 upper. you just need a file to notch the recoil plate.
the mis match thats harder to fix is a type type 1 or 2 lower with a type 3 upper. here you would have to either notch the upper to match the lower (not the preferd method) or weld some metal back into the notches of the recoil plate on the lower - then file back to the type 3 shape. if you go with the welding you propably will have to refinish with something other than park because you will see the difference in metal from the welding.
hth