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View Full Version : Legal: Post-/Pre-Ban status of an Argentine? ArmsCorp imports? Dates?


Byrdman
January 21, 2002, 12:01
When did Armscorp (Silver Springs, MD) import FAL's from Argentina? Are they all preban? What type of recievers did they use?

Thanks for the help.

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: EMDII ]

Falcon
January 21, 2002, 17:49
Not sure if this will help but, here are pics from an 89 Armscorp catalog...

see below

FALbert
January 21, 2002, 20:08
I bought an HBAR and 21" model back in 1988. Sold them both when I got into HKs. IIRC, I paid $625 for the 21", and $725 for the HBAR. They both had the high sights. The receivers showed machining marks, unlike the SAR-48.

In retrospect, I wish I had kept them. Heck, I wish I kept every gun I've ever sold.

paladin
January 22, 2002, 00:19
I purchased an Israeli from Armscorp in 1984,went back for another in 1988.They told me for $50 more I could pick a new Argie off the shelf.I picked #00100,a standard 21" with a test target showing a 2" group at 100 meters.I still have both, but they have many brothers now.Yes,I have been addicted for a long time now. :eek: :D :eek: :D

midnight
August 13, 2002, 23:14
Argentine FAL, upper receiver serial number of 010xx, lower receiver serial number of 009xx. Bolt/carrier serial number matches lower. Upper receiver reads
FMAP "DM" ROSARIO INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA

Pre or Post-Ban?

sledgehammer
August 14, 2002, 00:52
If the upper and lower receiver numbers don't match, it is most likely a postban. There could be an exception I guess.

Paul.S
August 14, 2002, 05:26
Check the mag well. From the way the numbers match up, I’ll bet there is a tiny stamp that says “imported by S.A.C. Latta SC”.

They are gray area guns, sold between the 89 import ban and the 94 AW ban. They were sold in 2 pieces, lowers soon after the 89 ban, uppers in 92. If someone put the 2 pieces together (not legal at the time, but water over the dam now) before the 94 ban, it is a legal preban assault weapon.

The problem is proving it. No company ever sold them new in this configuration, so you have to find someone that owned or saw the gun with a banned set of features before Sept. 14 1994 and have them write a signed statement to that effect. Even with that the gun is not worth as much as a pre 89 ban gun with an unquestionable pedigree.

Where did you see the gun? Midwest Ordinance in MI had a gun like that on consignment July 5. -Paul

midnight
August 14, 2002, 10:14
Its at my local gun store for $750. I'm trying to decide whether its a post-ban priced averagely, or a pre-ban thats a steal.

Jeff

Paul.S
August 15, 2002, 07:56
Originally posted by midnight
Its at my local gun store for $750. I'm trying to decide whether its a post-ban priced averagely, or a pre-ban thats a steal.

Jeff

Sounds like a good deal either way. There are people on this board hoping to buy an Argie reciver for $500 and Argie parts kits in Sarco conditon for $300. Let us know who the importer is if you take another look. -Paul

midnight
August 15, 2002, 09:44
I may go today and check out the importer.

Jeff

xIA
August 15, 2002, 15:22
SAC will be stamped INSIDE the mag well.
If it is, there is nothing grey about it.
They came in in '93 or later.
Post, period.
Even if you can't be arrested for it, it is subject to confiscation if in full pre-ban regalia.
11/90 was when it became illegal to assemble one in unimportable configuration.
You are borrowing trouble.:skull:

midnight
August 23, 2002, 13:29
Turns out it is imported by SAC, Latta, SC. So whats with the discrepancy? Is it post-ban, period, or a gray area gun? I'm not gonna buy it either way, but I would still like to know.

xIA
August 23, 2002, 13:45
Someone else who has learned the import date directly from Dave S. (the owner of DSA, who they were imported for), like I have, please answer the question.
Apparently I'm not knowledgeable enough.
Why do I even bother?

midnight
August 23, 2002, 13:50
Man, you need to settle down. I have two conflicting pieces of information, and I simply want to know which one is correct. I don't know you from Adam's housecat, neither do I personally know Paul. I have no clue how knowledgeable either of you is. You shouldn't take offense to someone wanting to get the facts straight. I see now that you do have some first hand info, and thats all you had to say to begin with. Take it easy, its just an internet forum.

midnight
August 23, 2002, 16:27
What is hint #171b? Or should I have used the search feature for that also?

xIA
August 23, 2002, 16:45
There is, as of yet, no Hint # 171b, as it has not yet been required.
Please allow at least 6 hours for someone to do something that requires a "Hint # 171b" to be written before using the search function to attempt to find it.


Thank You.

midnight
August 23, 2002, 16:54
Roger that (and lol). Thanks for the help, guys. No hard feelings, I hope.

xIA
August 23, 2002, 16:58
:biggrin:
None here.

gunfish
August 24, 2002, 00:25
I have one of these rifles with a drogunov style stock. I enjoy shooting it very much.

EMDII
September 26, 2002, 13:59
Yowza!

EMDII
September 26, 2002, 14:01
And-

EMDII
September 26, 2002, 14:07
And-

EMDII
September 26, 2002, 14:08
Finally-
(all thanks to Falcon)

RMLamey
October 05, 2002, 00:56
What are the proper markings or serial # range for a pre ban Argie? I know that most of the post bans were import marked iside the mag well. Is there a serial # range to look for? The rifle in question has a National Arms mark on the barrel, not the reciever, seems odd but thats what the owner indicates.

Thanks in advance.

xIA
October 05, 2002, 08:23
Originally posted by RMLamey
What are the proper markings or serial # range for a pre ban Argie? I know that most of the post bans were import marked iside the mag well. Is there a serial # range to look for? The rifle in question has a National Arms mark on the barrel, not the reciever, seems odd but thats what the owner indicates.

Thanks in advance.

All the Nat'l Arms imports are pre-ban, and marked on the bbl is correct for them. Closed ear gas block, arguably the best of the Argies.

Spark-e3
October 22, 2003, 21:06
Hi all,
I was hoping to get some input on the value of a preban T48 .308 Armscorp FAL in fair condition. It seems to be inch type rec. as it uses inch mags. It is preban as it has the bayo lug/muzzle brake? Any input would be helpful.

Kirk


OOOOPPPPPSSSSSSS MY BAD.

Brian in MN
October 22, 2003, 21:32
Hey, Sparky3, I don't mean to get all anal retentive on you but I've had a couple Summit Pale Ale's so I am going to anyway. :p

It is preBAN, dude. As in before the assault weapons ban. No music involved.:wink:

There are pre and post ban Armscorp rifles out there. Do a search on "Armscorp" and you will probably find quite a number of threads that will at least give you some good info on the pre and post issue. They may even give you some value indications.


Take your time and try to figure out just what you are looking at. The pre/post issue is a big deal money wise with these things.

Spark-e3
October 25, 2003, 00:13
Here's a bit more info on the T48.
Upper recvr..........Armcorp USA Inc T48 104XX Balt. MD.
Lower recv...........UE66
Charge handle.....F59
Matching bolt/carrier
Barrel...................F60
Trigger.................D61

I wonder if this info will help figure out aprox. value of this L1A1. Would this be a kit rifle or factory assy? Any info would be helpful!!

Kirk

EMDII
October 25, 2003, 07:17
Go HERE in R&D (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60277) and punch the 'ArmsCorp' button. More info.

Bookmark 'Eureka' OK:?

DK
October 25, 2003, 08:28
Hi Kirk,
You have a post-ban receiver built up on a brit kit. Home built I'm sure. Conventional wisdom on these indicates that pre-ban Armscorp receivers have a serial number BELOW 10000. Yours is apparrantly above that. Get you some US made compliance parts, lose the flash hider and bayo lug and enjoy shooting your post-ban rifle.

If you paid a pre-ban premium for the rifle, you may want to try getting your money back.....

DK

EMDII
October 25, 2003, 08:52
What DK says: 10K is the upper limit recognized (in writing somewhere IIRC) as pre-ban.

A RKI posted this in the Eureka threads:
Armscorp imported open ear pre-ban Argies (on Argentine Receivers, complete firearms). Gets a little "iffy-er" on the Armscorp receivered guns, but many of those are pre as well.

Since your lower is (in addition to the upper >10K) an Enfield 1960 (UE60), you have a Franken-FAL.

Here are real ArmsCorp rifles:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=429214

EMDII
October 25, 2003, 09:28
Better INFO, back into R&D.

Spark-e3
October 25, 2003, 10:09
Hey folks,
I'm starting to get it now(postban recvr / brit kit). I have not made the purchase on this one yet, so no worries. I'm very thankful for all the tips/info. Now it's time to explain all this to the gun's owner and tell him that his asking price is way too high for "me"(800.00) considering I'd need to do flash hider removal and US parts. You've all added to my knowledge base on these fun to shoot/own weapons. I'll let ya know what happens from hear!!

Kirk

Gopher
March 05, 2008, 23:01
I was in a gunshop today and one of the guys showed me a near new Belgium 50.00 with the long flashhider. The bad news is that it was priced at $3500.00

GDavis
March 22, 2009, 12:16
I've got a Belgium FAL (model 50.0) and hope to get an Argy soon. This was my brothers LSR (FAL) and looks brand new. It is pre-ban with serial number 0006*. One day shooting it I watched as he put 3 holes inside a quarter at 100 yards, OFFHAND. I wanted that rifle ever since. (Not that I can duplicate this shooting skills).

xIA
March 22, 2009, 12:20
Importer?

GDavis
September 08, 2009, 19:01
The the question of importer was to me, it is a "Silver Springs" (or close to that, I am not near it now) gun. No marks inside the mag well and same serial number everywhere.

I know he bought it in late 1980s from Gun South (for $525). I paid $1100 for a Beligium FAL and thought I was getting a good deal. I think the Argy is actually nicer.

.308er1
November 04, 2011, 20:29
^^^

Abominog
November 07, 2011, 16:28
FWIW I called DSA with a SAC Latta S/N and they said they had no record of that S/N. Odd because I thought all the SAC Latta built uppers (not bare receivers) were sold by DSA.