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View Full Version : Ident: German G1 lower controversy, identification?


WJ-Polish Guy
July 26, 2001, 18:07
OK dudes here we go. I have those two lowers on my rifles, one came from Belgian made STG58 SN78XX, second from early Austrian made STG58 SN367XX. Both were from rearsenaled matching kits.
Now both lowers are "Belgian cut". I asumme they were oryginaly wood stocked, as later Austrian plastic butstock does not match 100%. They differ from other Austrian lowers I have in SN100,000 range.
Actualy those lowers look exactly like ones I see on G1 photos (thanx Kevin A.). I assume they are the same.
Can any RKI bring to my atention any actual differences between BELGIAN made lowers from those two contracts German and Austrian...

usrrd
July 26, 2001, 18:27
Hi WJ, Belgium and German lowers are ident, except letters. Austrian some different outside and inside! Outside letters are smaller and not deep enough, the line under sight base is 2,5mm downward, Inside is plain
while Belgium and G1 has cuts left and right on the walls. Last, Belgium is made very well
and much better in finish! Austrian is cheap made and not perfect at all. ;)

mp
July 26, 2001, 20:34
Roland

Can you help identify a lower I have? It sounds like the one you describe. Strangest part about this lower is the gap between a normal stock and the rear of the receiver below the sight. It looks like it needs a special buttstock with extra "wings" to cover the gap.

The inside has the cuts you describe.

Selector positions are S,R,A.

The serial number is 122.

It appears very well made, and cut for type 01.

Any help? Thanks.

WJ-Polish Guy
July 26, 2001, 21:12
Kinda agree with you Roland... Exept I want to be precise here, Herstal`s Austrian and German lowers ARE identical.
I do not know what you mean "...exept letters" Roland. Both lowers are marked S-E-D on selector, and the way of stamping SN is the same also. The way to curve trigger guard is also identical.

Secondly my higher SN 367XX rifle has identical lower like contract gun SN78XX? That SN put rifle outside of Belgian contract (IIRC 12 or 15k...) so that gun was Austrian made....

Anyway folks, there it go revelation: If you want to build G1 copy just get STG58 kit Belgian contract (bellow 10k SN...) or low SN Austrian manuf STG,(I would say bellow 36k,(after seller confirm it has "belgian cut" lower on it...) Ad few gadgets and voila...
I`m not personaly interested, as I belive STG58 was the best made FAL ever, just try to help fellow junkies..

Originally posted by Roland FAL:
<STRONG>Hi WJ, Belgium and German lowers are ident, except letters. Austrian some different outside and inside! Outside letters are smaller and not deep enough, the line under sight base is 2,5mm downward, Inside is plain
while Belgium and G1 has cuts left and right on the walls. Last, Belgium is made very well
and much better in finish! Austrian is cheap made and not perfect at all. ;)</STRONG>

usrrd
July 27, 2001, 02:09
MP: I think like Dean, very early model. I can furnish you with a new condition overlapped wood stock!!You know, this piece is very rare! Contact me direct:modellbauspiegel@aol.com
WJ: give your attention on destination:
Belgium is FAL, Austrian is STG, German is G1, don't mix all together! The Austrians use an other >type of letters<, okay?

Mr pogo
July 27, 2001, 03:51
WJ, consider Roland the KevinNZ of German/Austrian Fals. Seriously.

From the top (photopoint reduces hi res linked pics so may have to visit album to see the small differences)
Heres a link to that album, open firearms in album viewer then to last pic in order to see hi res- http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=108685

G1- (courtesy of Roland, danke!) Notice deeper stamping and slightly lower location to lowers edge of selector "D" and "E" letters. Straight shoulder under sight base, horizontal release lever and internal lightening cuts.

Stg (early)- I believe this is FN made altho above the 20K number specified by Stevens. I think FN supplied parts for some time after the initial complete rifle contract was finished. Other parts are FN marked altho barrel is Austrian marked, this rifle is all matching serials. Selector marking depth and locations, shoulder below sight base and internal lightening cuts same as G1. Virtually identical other than release lever as per Roland.

Stg (later)- Selector letters stamped noticeably shallower and slightly higher than G1. Angled shoulder below sight base and no internal lightening cuts. Standard Stg variety lower.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=108685&a=6413701&p=52200938&Sequence=0&res=high

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: Mr pogo ]

usrrd
July 27, 2001, 05:03
Danke, Stan, für die perfekte Darstellung!
You earn my respect! Everybody can see on the pic (top) the perfect FN quality, built to high German standards. Isn't? :cool:

mp
July 27, 2001, 09:51
Thanks all. Roland--you have mail.

Mr pogo
July 27, 2001, 15:04
Your welcome Roland!

78 hits on the album since this morning, ooofa!

WJ-Polish Guy
July 27, 2001, 18:07
Originally posted by Roland FAL:
<STRONG>...
WJ: give your attention on destination:
Belgium is FAL, Austrian is STG, German is G1, don't mix all together! The Austrians use an other >type of letters<, okay?</STRONG>

Roland Dude,this start to be kinda embarasing, but somebody has to do it...

Belgians supplied Austrians with complete early STG58 rifles, more than 10,000 of them. Do you get it now?
Later Steyr started to manufacture STG58 under license.
Now, the some Belgians supplied you, Germans with G1 rifles in similar time frame like Austrians.

All I`m saying that lowers on those both Belgian made STG58 and G1 are the same. Period!..... :p

WJ-Polish Guy
July 27, 2001, 18:26
Originally posted by Mr pogo:
<STRONG>WJ, consider Roland the KevinNZ of German/Austrian Fals. Seriously.
...................
Stg (early)- I believe this is FN made altho above the 20K number specified by Stevens. I think FN supplied parts for some time after the initial complete rifle contract was finished. Other parts are FN marked altho barrel is Austrian marked, this rifle is all matching serials. Selector marking depth and locations, shoulder below sight base and internal lightening cuts same as G1. Virtually identical......
</STRONG>

VIRTUALY IDENTICAL! Thanx for second opinion Mr pogo!
If one filter thru all that ass kissing you guys engage into, and live out what realy matter, both of those lowers are IDENTICAL. Ha!
Now horizontal lever, is a latter gizmo. Vertical levers are perfectly correct.(See photo Kevin Adams supplied...)

Now I`m going to repeat my previous statement:
If you boys and girls want to build G1 COPY, get early STG58 kit. Belgian made, or early Austrian (alround 30k or less, after confirming with seller it is "Belgian cut"... )
Is anybody going to challange that statement with any real argument or something??? :rolleyes:

WJ-Polish Guy
July 27, 2001, 18:35
Hehe.. In the light of todays Tapco revelation it does not matter anymore...

If you want G1 copy, get G1 kit! :cool:

Radio
July 27, 2001, 19:53
Hehehehe!!! For once, I'm at the puter at the right time, and got in on the ground floor of the TAPCO "pre-reservation" offer.

20 minutes after placing my order, I see that Anne at DSA announces they also will have these kits. Oh well. At least I got in on their receiver GroupBuy. Just a heads up for anyone who hasn't seen this yet. FWIW, TAPCO's price for early buyers is $125 each; I haven't seen DSA's price announced yet.

--Radio

Newbie2FALs
July 27, 2001, 20:34
what is Belgian cut ?
sorry to ask a dumb Q but....

Radio
July 28, 2001, 02:32
What, you don't know about the Belgian cut? Are you a Newbie to FALs or something? Uh, oh, um, never mind.

This is in reference to the angle of the line sweeping from the recoil plate under the rear sight, down to the top of the buttstock. As I understand it, this difference wasn't widely known here on the Files until Penguin Stock customers began noticing a mismatch when installing these fine US-made buttstocks on certain lowers. (Or at least, this was the first time I'd ever heard of it, and since I'd never swapped buttstocks between my Belgian and Austrian StGs it escaped my notice that way as well.)

Take a closer look at the photos, you'll clearly see the difference in line between the center and lower stocks. The more shallow line in the center is found on Belgian and very early Austrian StGs, the steeper line is found on later Austrian StGs.

--Radio

Tex
July 28, 2001, 12:34
Also look at the interior walls of the lower. A Belgian will have some nice machine work in there while later (other) models won't. Right everyone? :)

Mr pogo
July 28, 2001, 20:37
Yes, Austrian made lowers do have less machine work inside lower.
FYI some Izzies have similar cuts inside lower, some also have the hammer spring removal/install assistance notch and ovalish cuts at rear.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=108685&a=6413701&p=51862525&Sequence=0&res=high

Tex
July 29, 2001, 00:48
An exception to that Belgian rule would be the lightweight(hiduminium)lower. No extra machine work in those......or in mine anyways.