PDA

View Full Version : Removing & Installing the Charging Knob Rivet


Orion the Hunter
December 28, 2017, 11:06
Anyone gearing up to install a new Charging Handle Knob on their FAL? As you know, it looks like there is a Rivet that needs to be punched out and replaced with a new one. Which brings us to the question: “When installing the new Rivet, what can a guy use as a “Anvil” in order to avoid denting or distorting the new replacement Rivet? Obviously, purchasing a OREA 118 Rivet Block....isn’t going to happen (if you find one, LET ME KNOW!)

So here is a tool that I came up with: https://i.imgur.com/TVJYjUX.jpg?1

All I did was went to the local hardware store and bought a 1/2” Steel Rod along with a Collar (that uses a set Pin to secure it on the shaft). The real pain was drilling the partial drill hole that I had to drill in one end of the shaft...and get it as close to perfect center as I could....and no, it wasn’t simple... but I finally did it! Next, I cut the shaft down to fit in the hockey puck so the collar acted like a shoulder to stabilize the tool. Next, I chucked up the shaft in the drill press and using some Emory Cloth to removed just enough metal on the shaft (dished end) for It to fit inside the Charging Handle Knob...After finding the proper height location to adjust the collar to I drilled a “dibit” in the side of the shaft for the set screw to land in... then tightened it up!

To use the anvil: The idea being to drill a hole slightly larger than the size of the shaft (1/2”) into your Armorers Block (hockey puck) and insert the longer portion of the tool to anchor it so the “Dish” faces up. The larger Metal Collar around the shaft acts as a “support shelf” to hold the tool vertically in place and the center “dished portion”....so it can act as the anvil where your Rivet sets.

To remove the Rivet, Prior to using your Anvil, use a OREA 155 (IE: “2.5mm” Drift Punch) to drive out the Rivet through one of your holes that you have in your Hockey Puck, (Remember, punch from Inside to Out of the Charging Handle Knob.)

To install the Rivet, after the Anvil Tool is in place, stage the Charging Handle, Knob & Rivet, then use a OREA 143 (IE: “4.7mm” Drift Punch) to seat the Rivet in place. The Dished portion portion is contoured to fit the shape of the rivet head.

What Other Method has others used to remove/install the Rivet Assembly?

BIG50
December 29, 2017, 14:55
Very simple using a small punch and hammer flip it over and support the handle knob down hanging off the edge of the table smack the center of the flaired rivet it will easily come out. Install new knob and rivet soppart the large flat part of the rivet i use a socket then use a larger tappered punch and smack it easily a few times to mush out done.

meltblown
December 29, 2017, 15:00
Very simple using a small punch and hammer flip it over and support the handle knob down hanging off the edge of the table smack the center of the flaired rivet it will easily come out. Install new knob and rivet soppart the large flat part of the rivet i use a socket then use a larger tappered punch and smack it easily a few times to mush out done.

Yep a 1/4 drive small socket for an anvil and heck I use a flat punch.

abbynormal
December 29, 2017, 18:05
I took my charging knob off to have it anodized. I had problems putting the
rivet back on so I tapped the hole on the charging rod and attached my knob to it by Loctite on the threads of the button head allen screw that was black oxided. You have to shine a flashlight inside the knob to see the screw.

It's been on there 15 years and is still tight, I've never had to tighten it in all these years.

Orion the Hunter
December 29, 2017, 19:23
I found in the second edition book called "Fabled FAL" that punches were used to remove and set the Rivet as mentioned above. More of less I tried to copy their Anvil design so the head of the Rivet wouldn't get smashed in when you set the Rivet with a punch on the opposite side.

However, a socket might work darn well good as it is hollow at the center and doesn't introduce a flat surface that would smash or distort the Rivet Head.

I know, I know.....nobody will really ever see the head if the Rivet because it is inside the knob (more of less)....I am just too much if a perfectionist!

So, the question is: "How did the Socket work when it came to setting the Rivet? Did it smash or distort the Rivet?

Thanks!

4markk
December 30, 2017, 09:50
MountainMan used to make a tool that I've used dozens of times. Hopefully he makes a new batch someday for those that didn't have an opportunity to buy one.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2hfp1z8.jpg

As for setting the rivet, I used to use the punch route until I tried this cheap little tool. It sets it tight everytime. I also use it to set the rivet on the carrier rat tail (have to use a spacer to engage the head).

https://www.amazon.com/8milelake-Motorcycle-Chain-Cutter-Riveting/dp/B01HZBRH98/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1514645106&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=chain+rivet+tool&psc=1

It's a cheap product at a cheap price, so don't overdue the force. I have also ground some of the pieces to fit better on some parts.

gunplumber
December 30, 2017, 10:08
I use a cut off barrel section for the anvil and punch to flair. The anvil has a small shoulder for holding in the vise, and the "crown" on the barrel matches the rivet radius.

My rivets have hollow ends so they generally flare uniformly, but using a slightly modified roll pin punch helps start the uniform expansion.

I have rivets available in Park or paint.

J. Armstrong
December 30, 2017, 11:48
I have used a worn philips screwdriver as a punch, seemed to provide a more uniform, albeit segmented, flare. Using a regular punch I would sometimes get off center or uneven flares. Probably a result of poor technique but the screwdriver worked fine for me.

gunplumber
December 30, 2017, 12:14
I have used a worn philips screwdriver as a punch, seemed to provide a more uniform, albeit segmented, flare. Using a regular punch I would sometimes get off center or uneven flares. Probably a result of poor technique but the screwdriver worked fine for me.

I like it. Which makes me think a Torx might do even better.

Another reason I like my modified roll pin punch is that the shaft matches the ID of the handle, so it self-centers.

J. Armstrong
December 30, 2017, 13:46
Another reason I like my modified roll pin punch is that the shaft matches the ID of the handle, so it self-centers.

That seems like the best solution, certainly more professional than mine !

In my defense, the screwdriver was cheap, available, and destined for the trash bin. I view it as a recycling effort to appease the treehugger types :biggrin:

mountainman
January 02, 2018, 20:43
You need a rounded end on the punch for flaring out even the center drilled rivets. How many people would like a rivet drilling bushing?

Orion the Hunter
January 03, 2018, 02:49
I have heard from a couple people that you made them a good Rivet Tool.

gunplumber
January 03, 2018, 08:35
You need a rounded end on the punch for flaring out even the center drilled rivets.

While that is what I use, consider a 1911 escutcheon staking tool. Not round.

https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/p_080644001_1.jpg

mountainman
January 03, 2018, 09:07
While that is what I use, consider a 1911 escutcheon staking tool. Not round.

https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/p_080644001_1.jpg

I'm thinking simplicity of manufacturing. most people have some kind of sander/grinder and making a nice concentric rounded end is not that difficult. That staking tool looks like it needs a live tooled cnc lathe or 4th axis cnc mill.

Orion, regarding the anvil I just use a socket and a pc of denim.

4markk
January 03, 2018, 09:35
You need a rounded end on the punch for flaring out even the center drilled rivets. How many people would like a rivet drilling bushing?

I'll take 3.

gunplumber
January 03, 2018, 11:04
That staking tool looks like it needs a live tooled cnc lathe or 4th axis cnc mill.

I'm not suggesting you duplicate it; I'm asserting that a Phillips or torque driver will apply equal radial force and flare a hollow rivet just fine. Doesn't really need to be a ball end.

So I've looked in the past for drill bushings with OD 7/32 or 5.5mm and ID 9/64 or 3.5mm and haven't found anything. Are you thinking of making an H type and hardening it? Or taking a pre-hardened one and grinding it to size?

https://cdn.mscdirect.com/global/images/ProductImages/0808274-11.jpg

I don't drill out the rivet shaft. I use a 7/32 bit with a 135 degree tip and kiss it a few times. Then I use 7/32" OD punch with a 9/64" tip to punch the rivet shaft shaft from the remnants of the flare. The only time I run into a problem is when the rivet is so loose, that it spins with the drill. Plastic I can just crush the knob in a vise to hold it. Aluminum can be a challenge.

mountainman
January 03, 2018, 21:20
well in all honesty quenching the bushing isn't such a big deal. I can do that. I don't think it has to be tempered as it doesn't get hammered. I just make the one that is in the pic. Its a slip fit in the hole and a lip fit for the drill. Phillips screw driver could be a good idea. Question is, will the shank be a slip fit for the bushing? I have to look up the old drawings.

Tattered
January 04, 2018, 13:38
How many people would like a rivet drilling bushing?

I'm interested in one.

mountainman
January 04, 2018, 19:14
Looks like I get started. I'm gonna have to hook up my old computer cause its got he CAD for those guys.

mountainman
January 10, 2018, 18:19
Had to remake drawing for the bushing. Hope to get a few made within 2 weeks. Anybody interested that I make an anvil tool like the one that is in “The Fabled FAL” (Page 43, Tool #118)?

mountainman
January 15, 2018, 20:27
OK guys, here is the rivet bushing for drilling up for sale.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423046