PDA

View Full Version : DSA warranty repair so far (Update #4 1/23/18)


steveTA1983
December 08, 2017, 10:13
Took my LMT made receiver shorty FAL in a month ago and picked it up the other day. Problem was not fixed. Went to the range and it was feeding issue after feeding issue. Was kind of pissed but I'm local so no big deal to drop it off again. Took a video of the issues and showed them. Bullet is being pushed into the case neck so I'm guessing it's a feed ramp issue. They took it back again without issue. Tried Austrian and DSA mags, happened with all of them (although much less with the Austrian ones. Hopefully they can make it right a second time. Luckily I can check to see if it's fixed without having to shoot it when I get it back (if it feeds, it's fixed. If it doesn't l, it's not)

http://i.imgur.com/a92GE9fl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RiGiCfll.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iz3fRm6l.jpg

steveTA1983
December 08, 2017, 10:16
And gun is on safe (did so after every malfunction), so no comments please lol

meltblown
December 08, 2017, 10:18
Barrel chamfer missing?

DSARMS_REP
December 08, 2017, 10:29
It kind of looks like the gas system is all the way open was it? Normaly the ftf as seen in the picture is mag induced. I saw you bring this in yesterday. I don't many 13" perm affix rifles with a fixed stock. Ether way we will get it fixed and if it's still there next week I will shoot it and fix it myself.

steveTA1983
December 08, 2017, 11:23
It kind of looks like the gas system is all the way open was it? Normaly the ftf as seen in the picture is mag induced. I saw you bring this in yesterday. I don't many 13" perm affix rifles with a fixed stock. Ether way we will get it fixed and if it's still there next week I will shoot it and fix it myself.

Getting it fixed quickly isn't a big deal, I know you guys had military contracts to fill and Uncle Sam is much more important (completely understand :) ) i haven't touched the gas system since I bought it, but the gas system wouldn't cause clambering/feeding issues when loading a fresh mag (the bolt is not feeding the round, which is the issue). It looks like either the feedramps are out of spec or there's an issue with the bolt. When a loaded mag is inserted there is heavy resistance when closing the bolt. It either doesn't close at all or closes half way. The times it did fully chamber it was very sluggish.

For the record, it's an old rifle and not one of your current builds. You guys are top notch and are excellent to deal with. I've been going to the pro-shop since it opened up and have had nothing but excellent customer service. My other DSA FAL eats everything and has been flawless, so the rifle I have there with you guys is just one that needs a little bit done to make it as reliable as my other one.

SawbriarRips
December 08, 2017, 17:36
Please range report back after their work.

Hope they make that Dragon run well!

Respectfully,

SR

steveTA1983
December 08, 2017, 20:53
Please range report back after their work.

Hope they make that Dragon run well!

Respectfully,

SR

It does spit fire that's for sure!! I'm sure it'll be fixed right. They used some well used mags they had on hand to test fire it and said they didn't have any issues. My mags (both DSA and Austrian) had issues. They all worked fine in my other DSA FAL, so I know it's an issue with the gun itself. I left my mags there with the rifle so they can better the issue. They're all good folks over there, so not worried at all

steveTA1983
December 22, 2017, 16:34
Well just picked it up from round two of warranty repair aaaaaaand.........same damn problem (although bullets are no longer being pushed into the case). Tested using 2 DSA mags, one Austrian surplus, a polymer mag they gave me for free to replace a worn mag (thank you DSA). Tested with Perfecta .308, Federal 7.62 XM80, ZQI, and Malaysian surplus. Every mag had at least 3 malfunctions. Needless to say I'm not too happy.

http://i.imgur.com/Z1B7n2hl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/idn0vcdl.jpg

Not wanting to have to wait another 2-3 weeks to get the rifle back in the same condition (stuff was done, but it did t fix it), I took it to a highly regarded local smith and he noticed the cause almost immediately

http://i.imgur.com/Vnv6BwOl.jpg

The feed ramps (which is what I suspected since day one, but I'm not taking a dremel to it) are not lifting the round high enough and its hitting the base of the barrel (thus the bullets being pushed into the case and improper feeding). He said it'll be an easy fix and around $60 bucks. At least now I know it will be fixed right the first time.

For the record, everyone at DS Arms has been very friendly, especially in the Pro Shop. I also know that this is an old (but very lightly used) rifle and was not built by the people that are working there now. I don't fault them with this "lemon"

1911Ron
December 22, 2017, 17:25
As said above, lack of proper barrel chamfer?

For a company that holds "military contracts" that's a very "well, duh!" moment. I'm not impressed.

You would think that QC check would of caught that.:whistling::facepalm:

steveTA1983
December 22, 2017, 17:29
You would think that QC check would of caught that.:whistling::facepalm:

It's a 15 year old rifle, so the QC isn't the fault of current employees

steveTA1983
December 22, 2017, 17:31
OR at the very least a test fire after a tech says it all good? Maybe not so much with DSA but in my line of work we proof all of our repairs by TESTING the unit after the repair is made.

THey said it was tested (and they tested mags too cuz they replaced on of mine). But then how do I go to the range with those same mags and have malfunction after malfunction? It ain't the ammo either. At least my local smith found the issue right away and he will make sure it runs right before I get it back

Right Side Up
December 22, 2017, 17:34
You should probably have him smooth up the feed rails on the receiver while it's there. It'll feed a lot smoother.

steveTA1983
December 22, 2017, 17:37
You should probably have him smooth up the feed rails on the receiver while it's there. It'll feed a lot smoother.

He's going to be doing that as well.

1911Ron
December 22, 2017, 17:44
It's a 15 year old rifle, so the QC isn't the fault of current employees

True, but it is an on going issue that is getting worse, as to their "testing" to many times people here and on FB Fal pages report that their rifle was "tested" only to have the same issue as before.

steveTA1983
December 22, 2017, 17:58
True, but it is an on going issue that is getting worse, as to their "testing" to many times people here and on FB Fal pages report that their rifle was "tested" only to have the same issue as before.

I see what you're saying, my bad. I figured round 3 would be the same result (not fixed) so I'll bite the bullet and pay for it myself. If I wasn't local and was waiting months (combined for both repairs) I'd be pissed as hell. Instead I'm just slightly annoyed lol. And <$60 to get it running right is nothing

Orion the Hunter
December 23, 2017, 10:45
I bought a Century FAL several years ago (ya, I know...I know) anyway it was on a Century Receiver and right off the bat...same problems you had. The only good thing I can say about Century is that they responded to warranty fairly well...but it still cost me an extra 100 bucks shipping! Anyway, I got it back after they claim it was “Barrel & Flash Hider” problem. Went to thr Gravel Pit immediately and had same problem! Stove pipes, case rips, FTF, FTE on and on! I compared the ramps to my original FN and the problem was painfully obvious! That is when I learned what the term “Unibrow” meant!

The fix? ALCOHOL! I just grabbbed a 18 Pack and went back to the pit and fired-jammed-fought it-reloaded-drank-fired-fitted-jammed-drank and so on! Eventually it went to fired-fired-fired-fired- then jam etc! Cracked open another one and repeated process! I believe the fix was that I wore the ramps down enough to start working properly. The damn thing is now deadly accurate and refuses to jam!

steveTA1983
December 23, 2017, 18:08
I bought a Century FAL several years ago (ya, I know...I know) anyway it was on a Century Receiver and right off the bat...same problems you had. The only good thing I can say about Century is that they responded to warranty fairly well...but it still cost me an extra 100 bucks shipping! Anyway, I got it back after they claim it was “Barrel & Flash Hider” problem. Went to thr Gravel Pit immediately and had same problem! Stove pipes, case rips, FTF, FTE on and on! I compared the ramps to my original FN and the problem was painfully obvious! That is when I learned what the term “Unibrow” meant!

The fix? ALCOHOL! I just grabbbed a 18 Pack and went back to the pit and fired-jammed-fought it-reloaded-drank-fired-fitted-jammed-drank and so on! Eventually it went to fired-fired-fired-fired- then jam etc! Cracked open another one and repeated process! I believe the fix was that I wore the ramps down enough to start working properly. The damn thing is now deadly accurate and refuses to jam!

Alcohol does fix everything!!!

crffl
December 23, 2017, 21:11
I see what you're saying, my bad. I figured round 3 would be the same result (not fixed) so I'll bite the bullet and pay for it myself. If I wasn't local and was waiting months (combined for both repairs) I'd be pissed as hell. Instead I'm just slightly annoyed lol. And <$60 to get it running right is nothing

IMHO You should be "pissed as hell" regardless if your local or not.

Maybe you should change the title of this post to

DSA warranty NON-repair so far :biggrin:

.

steveTA1983
December 24, 2017, 22:27
IMHO You should be "pissed as hell" regardless if your local or not.

Maybe you should change the title of this post to

:biggrin:

.

Yeah you do make a good point. A private smith found the problem instantly vs nothing resolved with 2 warranty repairs.

raubvogel
December 26, 2017, 20:13
Yeah you do make a good point. A private smith found the problem instantly vs nothing resolved with 2 warranty repairs.

I would say gunplumber would not act surprised even if he tried hard.

J. Armstrong
December 26, 2017, 21:22
Another episode in the ongoing "all our stuff is within spec" vs the "it don't run worth crap".

In the past I tried hard to give DSA the benefit of the doubt, but at this point, while I have and would continue to use a certain few of their parts, I would NEVER trust my wallet or my life to a DSA rifle. Period. I just don't think they give a rat's fine ass about their commercial sales to the public. I certainly hope the anti-poacher units in Africa get better stuff from DSA :facepalm:

steveTA1983
December 26, 2017, 21:38
Another episode in the ongoing "all our stuff is within spec" vs the "it don't run worth crap".

In the past I tried hard to give DSA the benefit of the doubt, but at this point, while I have and would continue to use a certain few of their parts, I would NEVER trust my wallet or my life to a DSA rifle. Period. I just don't think they give a rat's fine ass about their commercial sales to the public. I certainly hope the anti-poacher units in Africa get better stuff from DSA :facepalm:

My other DSA FAL runs perfect, as did the AR's I've built using their uppers and lowers.

But yeah, military/gov contracts>commercial sales/service. Took a month to get back the first time (in which nothing was done, at least it seems).

gunplumber
December 27, 2017, 09:46
I believe the fix was that I wore the ramps down enough to start working properly.

(sarcasm) Right, because brass and copper will abrade steel. (/sarcasm)

gunplumber
December 27, 2017, 13:34
Grumpy, Mark? :rofl:

Just weary of publicly displayed stupidity.

jhend170
December 27, 2017, 14:58
(sarcasm) Right, because brass and copper will abrade steel. (/sarcasm)

Oh it will... but it's rather labor intensive and VERY expensive!

<Gunsmith> "I'm going to need about 5k rounds of Hirt and I'll have this fixed right up for ya! There will also be an significant labor charge..."

steveTA1983
January 12, 2018, 13:22
My smith just called me and rifle is ready to go. The problem? Hammer was catching the bolt carrier too much and slowing down the momentum when it loads a round. He polished the hammer and the feedramps and said it slams home the rounds every time. He test fired it with different mags and issue is no longer present. Cost is $60 for labor. At least it's running right now and was a cheap fix (done right the first time). Going to test fire it in a few weeks (just had surgery yesterday so out of commission for a little while), but I might try and trade it towards a Zenith MP5. Going to have to see how I like it first as I haven't really had a chance yet since it's been in the shop more than in my hands lol

gunplumber
January 12, 2018, 14:31
Hammer was catching the bolt carrier too much and slowing down the momentum when it loads a round.

I am skeptical.

308/223shooter
January 12, 2018, 15:04
Originally Posted by steveTA1983 View Post
Hammer was catching the bolt carrier too much and slowing down the momentum when it loads a round.
I am skeptical.
As am I. It is possible, saw this with FlatFours build at Brush511's. However, bolt drag would NOT cause the round to nose itself into the feed ramp, shoving the bullet back into the case. That is another problem, which DSA may've corrected.
Even so, I find it interesting that polishing the bolt and hammer fixed the problem, when a bit of proper lube between the two, should've done the same thing.

steveTA1983
January 12, 2018, 19:25
Originally Posted by steveTA1983 View Post
Hammer was catching the bolt carrier too much and slowing down the momentum when it loads a round.

As am I. It is possible, saw this with FlatFours build at Brush511's. However, bolt drag would NOT cause the round to nose itself into the feed ramp, shoving the bullet back into the case. That is another problem, which DSA may've corrected.
Even so, I find it interesting that polishing the bolt and hammer fixed the problem, when a bit of proper lube between the two, should've done the same thing.

He polished the feed ramps as they were rough, but the hammer was catching the bolt a bit adding to the problem. I'll know in a week or so and as long as the problem is solved it's all good. Luckily the smith is a block away from the range and if it isn't fixed I can just drop it off to be fixed (for the 4th time).

steveTA1983
January 12, 2018, 20:36
It may work for you just fine. I believe the underlying premise of the skepticism is that your 'smith' has manage to mask the real problem vs properly diagnosing and repairing it.
But Murphy's Law once said, "If it stupid but it works, it isn't stupid".

Let us know how it runs for you.
:)

Will do, and I'll post actual range results instead of just failed function tests lol

gunplumber
January 13, 2018, 10:34
Put it this way. In 27 years and thousands of FALs in for builds and repairs, the number of malfunctioning rifles that were fixed by polishing something remains ZERO.

Seriously - think about this for a moment - You have a gun that is designed to function in combat, under rain, mud, and snow conditions. And it's going to cycle or not, based on 220 vs 400 grit sandpaper? Bullshit. There is "in-spec", and there is "not-in-spec".

It is certainly possible with some hammers (old DSA mold line at fixing plate, Falcon top left warped) to have binding. That is because the parts are out-of-spec. No amount of "polishing" is going to fix that. And it does not prevent the carrier from returning forward. It prevents the hammer from returning forward smoothly - reducing the already minimal pressure the hammer would normally have on the carrier.

steveTA1983
January 13, 2018, 15:26
Put it this way. In 27 years and thousands of FALs in for builds and repairs, the number of malfunctioning rifles that were fixed by polishing something remains ZERO.

Seriously - think about this for a moment - You have a gun that is designed to function in combat, under rain, mud, and snow conditions. And it's going to cycle or not, based on 220 vs 400 grit sandpaper? Bullshit. There is "in-spec", and there is "not-in-spec".

It is certainly possible with some hammers (old DSA mold line at fixing plate, Falcon top left warped) to have binding. That is because the parts are out-of-spec. No amount of "polishing" is going to fix that. And it does not prevent the carrier from returning forward. It prevents the hammer from returning forward smoothly - reducing the already minimal pressure the hammer would normally have on the carrier.

I'm picking it up next week sometime, so I'll get more details on exactly what else he did. But your right, something on it is/was out of spec. Possibly the old DSA hammer issue you mentioned

bigstick61
January 13, 2018, 18:15
I am skeptical.

Something like that is going on with my rifle. If I ease the bolt carrier forward the hammer catches it at a certain point and it will stay in place. I have to pull back and release for it to go home. I wonder if that has anything to do with the BOB malfunctions I've been experiencing.

308/223shooter
January 13, 2018, 18:21
Something like that is going on with my rifle. If I ease the bolt carrier forward the hammer catches it at a certain point and it will stay in place. I have to pull back and release for it to go home. I wonder if that has anything to do with the BOB malfunctions I've been experiencing.

Not likely. And you shouldn't need to ride the charging handle. Just pull it back and let it go. Unless of course you are avoiding a dry fire. In which case pull the handle back about a inch, then pull the trigger.

bigstick61
January 14, 2018, 01:26
The weapon's not loaded when I'm doing that. It's something I noticed by chance while doing maintenance. The bolt did pause short of going home last time I shot the rifle. It paused for a moment and then went home with an audible click after the report from the shot, but it was only a half inch or so from closing when that happened. Not sure what that was all about.

I've had bolt over base malfunctions with most magazines I've tried so far. Always within the last five shots, most often the second from last shot. Only the alloy mag I tried has been trouble free. The other mags were Steyr, FN, and Israeli steel mags. Occasionally the BHO won't catch the bolt after the last shot.

gunplumber
January 14, 2018, 09:56
Silly question - is this a para stock or standard? I note its not a sand cut B/C but none of the images could confirm stock. If a Para, it's of the time when DSA para return springs were significantly lower strength than factory. They have since improved.

steveTA1983
January 14, 2018, 15:40
Silly question - is this a para stock or standard? I note its not a sand cut B/C but none of the images could confirm stock. If a Para, it's of the time when DSA para return springs were significantly lower strength than factory. They have since improved.

http://i.imgur.com/W4PD6ybl.jpg

steveTA1983
January 23, 2018, 12:34
Going now to pick it up from the smith. Doing a quick function test, cleaning it up, then listing it for sale in the marketplace here. I caved and popped for one of my long wanted rifles (Cugir made PSL) and need the funds to pay off the CC. Going to make sure it works before listing it obviously, but I'm sure it will as it was a pretty easy fix. From the whole experience, as other have stated, DS Arms warranty repair can be iffy. Great guys over there though, always friendly and helpful

steveTA1983
January 23, 2018, 23:06
Rifle still has issues, but I swapped bolts to test it out and the bolt from my FAL with no issues allowed for a perfect function in this rifle. Bolt may be out of spec and catching on the hammer (very noticeable). I'm going to guess this is the main problem. Easy fix if it is. Either way, I put it up for sale

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4530314#post4530314

HighRatMaster
January 23, 2018, 23:23
Looks to me like the ejector is too tall and is causing bolt overs.

ETA: Or more precisely the ejector slot in the bolt is not deep enough.

steveTA1983
January 23, 2018, 23:27
Looks to me like the ejector is too tall and is causing bolt overs.

ETA: Or more precisely the ejector slot in the bolt is not deep enough.

If that's the case at least a pretty easy fix for someone who wants to fix it. Rifle is nice and handy but I'm done with it lol

I swapped bolt with my working FAL and problem went away, so I think you're right. Still selling it though

Right Side Up
January 23, 2018, 23:50
Rifle still has issues, but I swapped bolts to test it out and the bolt from my FAL with no issues allowed for a perfect function in this rifle. Bolt may be out of spec and catching on the hammer (very noticeable). I'm going to guess this is the main problem. Easy fix if it is. Either way, I put it up for sale

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4530314#post4530314

I'm just curious how you arrived at the price you did for a rifle that doesn't work? No offense meant, truly curious.

Sorry to see you get screwed by DSA and the gunsmith you took it to.

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 05:29
I'm just curious how you arrived at the price you did for a rifle that doesn't work? No offense meant, truly curious.

Sorry to see you get screwed by DSA and the gunsmith you took it to.

100% working LMT examples go for $1500+, but Yeah you're right. Lowered. Rifle does work w/a different bolt though, so I'm guessing the bolt is the main culprit

gunplumber
January 24, 2018, 08:31
Looks to me like the ejector is too tall and is causing bolt overs.

ETA: Or more precisely the ejector slot in the bolt is not deep enough.

Common problem with the fundamentally defective DSA bolts. Well, that and them breaking. But isn't that an austrian proof on his bolt? And is a DS 20xxx an LMT? Since DSA has lied so many times, on every topic imaginable, we don't really know when the cut-off from LMT was, but I accept sub 19,000. But that doesn't mean it isn't a little higher.

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 09:19
Common problem with the fundamentally defective DSA bolts. Well, that and them breaking. But isn't that an austrian proof on his bolt? And is a DS 20xxx an LMT? Since DSA has lied so many times, on every topic imaginable, we don't really know when the cut-off from LMT was, but I accept sub 19,000. But that doesn't mean it isn't a little higher.

That's why I included the bolt pics (Austrian proofs, at least looks like it). DSA did say it is a LMT receiver

4markk
January 24, 2018, 09:35
I had a similar issue with a DSA assembled 18" StG kit on LMT receiver about 10 years ago. I tried everything I could think of. Finally I changed out the slim muzzlebrake for a combo device and it worked like a Swiss watch.

So even though the gas port was the proper size, it seems to be a dwell time issue. The combo device contained the pressure just enough more to allow everything to cycle properly.

Now a short gas is a whole different animal with different tolerances. But the physical properties are the same. I would test this theory with a fake combo device to see if containing that pressure just a little more will help.

MAINER
January 24, 2018, 09:39
I thought the FALFiles theory was that a DS prefex serial number was an LMT and a DSA prefex was not.

In 2017, this is DSA's response to a query about a DS 35xxx rifle. Previously, I had roughly estimated the LMT cut off to be in the 28,000 to 32,000 range, but have no evidence to prove such, just an observation.

From DSA;
"The rifle in question was built as a complete firearm and left on 12/08/2009.
It is an LMT receiver and would be an STG58 kit juding from the time frame."

Of course, this info does rely on the culprit in question itself. :rolleyes:

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 09:43
I had a similar issue with a DSA assembled 18" StG kit on LMT receiver about 10 years ago. I tried everything I could think of. Finally I changed out the slim muzzlebrake for a combo device and it worked like a Swiss watch.

So even though the gas port was the proper size, it seems to be a dwell time issue. The combo device contained the pressure just enough more to allow everything to cycle properly.

Now a short gas is a whole different animal with different tolerances. But the physical properties are the same. I would test this theory with a fake combo device to see if containing that pressure just a little more will help.

Main problem with mine is it has nothing to do with firing, i can hand cycle the rounds (not nursing it into battery) and tell if it's fixed or not, as when releasing the charging handle it would jam on some rounds

nwobhm
January 24, 2018, 09:44
Common problem with the fundamentally defective DSA bolts. Well, that and them breaking. But isn't that an austrian proof on his bolt? And is a DS 20xxx an LMT? Since DSA has lied so many times, on every topic imaginable, we don't really know when the cut-off from LMT was, but I accept sub 19,000. But that doesn't mean it isn't a little higher.

DS19000 is pre 2004....probably closer to 2000-2001 IIRC. Definitely LMT.

4markk
January 24, 2018, 09:56
Main problem with mine is it has nothing to do with firing, i can hand cycle the rounds (not nursing it into battery) and tell if it's fixed or not, as when releasing the charging handle it would jam on some rounds

So when you stated every mag had at least 3 malfunctions, that was from hand cycling?

Two vastly different forces are at work between hand cycling and gas cycling. Which one doesn't work on your rifle?

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 10:05
So when you stated every mag had at least 3 malfunctions, that was from hand cycling?

Two vastly different forces are at work between hand cycling and gas cycling. Which one doesn't work on your rifle?

Doesn't matter if I cycle by hand or shooting it. If it works by hand, it will work on the range (issues with both). I havent shot it since bringing it back from the smith. I tested it at home by loading 10 rounds in a mag (3 mags) and then attempt to chamber. Hangs up with the metal mags (with the bolt from my other rifle installed it did not hang up at all). The magazine I'm including with the rifle (Moses) hadn't given me any trouble even with the stock bolt, although I've only put 20 rounds through the rifle with that mag.

Rifle also had no issues at all regarding firing or ejection, just feeding

4markk
January 24, 2018, 10:32
Doesn't matter if I cycle by hand or shooting it. If it works by hand, it will work on the range (issues with both).

That is an incredibly wrong statement. Different forces and mechanical parts are at work between the two different methods. One deals with gas pressures and the other deals with skeletal muscle mechanics.

Having a problem with one and not the other means you have to examine the uncommon parts first.

I had an old British Land Rover that came with a hand crank. Believe it or not the internal combustion could cycle that engine a hell of lot better than me hand cranking. There were times when the hand crank couldn't budge it. Did that mean the engine was broke?

Rifle also had no issues at all regarding firing or ejection, just feeding

Feeding is a main component of firing. It can't fire if the chamber is empty.

So let's step back for a moment and first identify the actual problem.

If the system cycles by gas with no malfunctions, than what uncommon parts are at work?

1) charging handle - possible drag
2) skeletal muscle mechanics - possible strain

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 10:49
That is an incredibly wrong statement. Different forces and mechanical parts are at work between the two different methods. One deals with gas pressures and the other deals with skeletal muscle mechanics.

Having a problem with one and not the other means you have to examine the uncommon parts first.

I had an old British Land Rover that came with a hand crank. Believe it or not the internal combustion could cycle that engine a hell of lot better than me hand cranking. There were times when the hand crank couldn't budge it. Did that mean the engine was broke?



Feeding is a main component of firing. It can't fire if the chamber is empty.

So let's step back for a moment and first identify the actual problem.

If the system cycles by gas with no malfunctions, than what uncommon parts are at work?

1) charging handle - possible drag
2) skeletal muscle mechanics - possible strain

When you load a magazine into the rifle and pull back/release bolt and it jams, that shows me that there is an issue. I clear the jam and it happens again (with metal magazines). When firing, exact same malfunction happens

Now, I did more testing with my other rifle's bolt and the issue is no longer present. I also installed the "troubled" bolt into my other FAL and had 1 hang up. I'm going to say without a doubt that the issue is bolt related, as why would the rifle function (hand cycling at least) fine with one bolt but not the other?

I might take a trip over to DS Arms and see if I can swap out for a new bolt.

gunplumber
January 24, 2018, 11:13
For someone with so little experience, you seem pretty sure of what it must and can't be. I have been doing this for a living for 27 years and still am hesitant to say "always" or "never".

What are the odds of an StG bolt being defective in any way? Particularly one that was disassembled from a functioning rifle? I suggest the probability isn't zero, but pretty damn close to it.

Compare that to a US commercial parts, and a reasonable person will consider the possible causes of failure based on the probability of the different components.

US Assembly, most likely. DSA Barrel - second most likely. LMT Receiver, 3rd , Steyr bolt, least likely.

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 11:19
For someone with so little experience, you seem pretty sure of what it must and can't be. I have been doing this for a living for 27 years and still am hesitant to say "always" or "never".

What are the odds of an StG bolt being defective in any way? Particularly one that was disassembled from a functioning rifle? I suggest the probability isn't zero, but pretty damn close to it.

Compare that to a US commercial parts, and a reasonable person will consider the possible causes of failure based on the probability of the different components.

US Assembly, most likely. DSA Barrel - second most likely. LMT Receiver, 3rd , Steyr bolt, least likely.


I'm just gonna leave it as is. It functions fine with the mag I'm including with it. I was just stating that one bolt worked fine and the other one didn't. Who knows where the issue lies

nwobhm
January 24, 2018, 11:23
Did you check headspace with the bolt swap?

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 11:27
Did you check headspace with the bolt swap?

I did not. Pic of reciever you requested up in marketplace btw

nwobhm
January 24, 2018, 13:17
I did not. Pic of reciever you requested up in marketplace btw

So you are swapping bolts and not checking headspace before firing?

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 13:18
So you are swapping bolts and not checking headspace before firing?

Wasn't firing, hand cycling for feeding function, as the other bolt would jam up when loading first round into rifle. Also noticed the rounds were ejecting much more forcefully with the the bolt from other rifle

HighRatMaster
January 24, 2018, 13:40
Wasn't firing, hand cycling for feeding function, as the other bolt would jam up when loading first round into rifle. Also noticed the rounds were ejecting much more forcefully with the the bolt from other rifle

Bolt is not dropping down far enough to properly push cartridge from magazine = ejector too tall.

:fal:

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 14:05
Bolt is not dropping down far enough to properly push cartridge from magazine = ejector too tall.

:fal:

Sounds like that's it! Would that also cause rounds to slam into the barrel right above the feed ramps, causing the rounds to be pushed into the case?

Also, there's this. Very tight around the hammer, although I don't feel and grinding. Top is my FAL that runs great, bottom is the rifle in question. Opening for hammer is about .15 inches smaller than other rifle

http://i.imgur.com/sHly9Arl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CGmz1vzl.jpg

gunplumber
January 24, 2018, 14:20
Bolt is not dropping down far enough to properly push cartridge from magazine = ejector too tall.

:fal:

LMT receiver - ejector block coincides with mag catch axle screw = e-block height should be fine.

Appears to be a removable ejector.

http://i.imgur.com/rSqQ8dCl.jpg

if anything, the right arm of the e-block looks low relative to the rail - see the wear at the junction? And I'd like to see a closeup of the feedramps - looks like someone messed with them.

I am skeptical that it is the ejector, but you can paint the ejector groove in the bolt with dykem and see if it is contacting. I've only seen a problem with this on DSA bolts. The parkerizing removed from the top of the ejector looks about right for just a brushing contact - does not look like it's getting pounded.

I suppose one could drift the top e-block pin partially out and remove the ejector - and test without it.

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 14:29
LMT receiver - ejector block coincides with mag catch axle screw = e-block height should be fine.

Appears to be a removable ejector.

http://i.imgur.com/rSqQ8dCl.jpg

if anything, the right arm of the e-block looks low relative to the rail. And I'd like to see a closeup of the feedramps - looks like someone messed with them.
I am skeptical that it is the ejector, but you can paint the ejector groove in the bolt with dykem and see if it is contacting. I've only seen a problem with this on DSA bolts. The parkerizing removed from the top of the ejector looks about right for just a brushing contact - does not liook like it's getting pounded.

I suppose one could drift the top e-block pin partially out and remove the ejector - and test without it.

Gunsmith smoothed/polished feedramps out, so yes they were messed with

gunplumber
January 24, 2018, 14:33
Gunsmith smoothed/polished feedramps out, so yes they were messed with

Well, hopefully he didn't destroy a $600 receiver. Occasionally on DSA and Coonan cast receivers, the scallops don't extend far enough laterally, but I've never had a problem with their angle. And no amount of machine marks, in my experience, has ever prevented feeding, and certainly didn't cause the malfunction you are experiencing. People messing with the feedramps - now I've seen that destroy a number of receivers.

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 14:41
Well, hopefully he didn't destroy a $600 receiver. Occasionally on DSA and Coonan cast receivers, the scallops don't extend far enough laterally, but I've never had a problem with their angle. And no amount of machine marks, in my experience, has ever prevented feeding, and certainly didn't cause the malfunction you are experiencing. People messing with the feedramps - now I've seen that destroy a number of receivers.

He didn't take much (if anything) off at all. Just buffed them a tad
http://i.imgur.com/NGwR7Jrl.jpg

gunplumber
January 24, 2018, 15:27
Looks ok from the blurry photo. The chamfer on the barrel does not look right.

Try holding a flash light on the bottom of the chamber. If you are on auto focus, go to manual - camera wants to find the average of everything in view and we need chamber specifically.

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 15:45
Looks ok from the blurry photo. The chamfer on the barrel does not look right.

Try holding a flash light on the bottom of the chamber. If you are on auto focus, go to manual - camera wants to find the average of everything in view and we need chamber specifically.

I'm out and about for the moment but will try and get a better pic when I get home

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 20:03
http://i.imgur.com/YDOT6cIl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tf5U952l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qr5Eg3jl.jpg

meltblown
January 24, 2018, 20:22
That looks fuced up. People dicking with ramps on a barrel that isn’t undercut enough for :uhoh:

Right Side Up
January 24, 2018, 21:00
That grinding is pretty savage. The only thing I've ever done there is use a felt pad on a Dremel and some rouge to take the sharp edges off and mirror polish the ramps. You just want it to not scrape the bullet and case. You don't want to lower the ramps any.

maxaks
January 24, 2018, 21:15
Bolt is not dropping down far enough to properly push cartridge from magazine = ejector too tall.

:fal:

From the pics in the market place I agree ejector looks different

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 21:18
From the pics in the market place I agree ejector looks different

At least if that's the case it's an easy fix

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 21:19
That grinding is pretty savage. The only thing I've ever done there is use a felt pad on a Dremel and some rouge to take the sharp edges off and mirror polish the ramps. You just want it to not scrape the bullet and case.

It's not as bad as it looks lol

maxaks
January 24, 2018, 21:23
At least if that's the case it's an easy fix

Maybe it was a dream I had but I thought i read somewhere with lmt receivers having a common problem with ejector blocks (1 piece 2 piece)

steveTA1983
January 24, 2018, 21:31
Maybe it was a dream I had but I thought i read somewhere with lmt receivers having a common problem with ejector blocks (1 piece 2 piece)

Dreaming about FAL receivers lol. Love it

Right Side Up
January 25, 2018, 00:24
It's not as bad as it looks lol

Here's an STG I used to own built on a DSA receiver and a Belgian kit. Deburred and mirror polished feed ramps. Note the bevel on the barrel. That's from FN.

https://i.imgur.com/xMCP4Gu.jpg?3

steveTA1983
January 25, 2018, 06:28
Here's an STG I used to own built on a DSA receiver and a Belgian kit. Deburred and mirror polished feed ramps. Note the bevel on the barrel. That's from FN.

https://i.imgur.com/xMCP4Gu.jpg?3

Wow, big difference!

gunplumber
January 25, 2018, 09:19
Are you f-cking kidding me?!!! He didn't take much (if anything) off at all. Just buffed them a tad

This picture on the left tells a completely different story than the one on the right. Receiver is destroyed. Non repairable. Tell your gunsmith he owes you $600. And you should update your ad to specify that your $600 receiver is now a worthless paperweight because of the "buffing" that your incompetent hack gunsmith did. Your barrel is defective too, in the chamber mouth. That would have been a 2 minute job on the lathe to correct. DSA is sighing in relief becauase now it ain't their problem anymore, although why those boobs didn't notice the chamber mouth, eludes me.

http://i.imgur.com/qr5Eg3jl.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/YDOT6cIl.jpg

nwobhm
January 25, 2018, 17:39
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4531249&posted=1#post4531249