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View Full Version : Could somone explaine the Armscorp and SBL receiver thing?


Ledfordp1
December 02, 2017, 14:39
I am curious if these guns are considered real or just kits from a collectors standpoint. I believe they are built on new parts not surplus, so that would be one positive. I know that they are not Belgian so therefore Nothing would be real that wasn't, but do they have collector value?

gentlemanjoe
December 02, 2017, 15:46
Aren't Israeli FALs metric.

I have an SBL light barrel rifle and an IZ HB kit. Most all of the parts are marked in Hebrew. I think the HB kit has Belgian marks on the bolt and carrier.

As I understand it all of the kewl Hebrew on the upper receiver with the Star of David is basically the guys name that imported them. I was hoping it translated into something like Islam sucks but no.:whistling:

J. Armstrong
December 02, 2017, 18:30
They are "professionally built kit guns" ;):D

IIRC ( and the ol' memory bank is not always as reliable as it used to was :( ) the SBLs were build on semifinished Belgian receivers ( Israel never made uppers, to my knowledge ) that the importer had finished and then assembled into rifles. I doubt that all new parts were used. The receivers came in several configurations ranging from quite accurate Izzy replicas to simple type 3's ( not correct for an issue Israeli FAL ). These receivers included some variations that were unique to Israeli rifles.

Israeli FALs initially bought their FALs from FN, then began making replacement parts of their own. They never built complete rifles or their own receivers.As a result, over the years FALs were assembled from a mix of Belgian and Israeli parts, and as rifles got depot maintenance, parts could get further mixed ( much as the Rhodesians did ).

THe SBLs are about as close to a genuine Israeli FAL that exists for us common folk, and they are not very common, so that does bump the value up a bit. I wouldn't call them high grade collectibles like a G series, though.

Armscorp built Israeli rifles using their own proprietary receivers.

nwobhm
December 02, 2017, 21:57
I am curious if these guns are considered real or just kits from a collectors standpoint. I believe they are built on new parts not surplus, so that would be one positive. I know that they are not Belgian so therefore Nothing would be real that wasn't, but do they have collector value?

SBL bought the blueprints, tooling and forgings from FN and made receivers. The rest was surplus parts. Very collectable rifles, as close as you can get to a Belgian receiver without being Belgian....if that makes sense....:rofl:

nwobhm
December 02, 2017, 22:09
For all practical purposes that would be correct, however I had SBL make me several inch pattern prototypes since I had lost production in Lithgow, and still wanted to make inch pattern rifles, the recievers are so totally different that it is little chance of being confused, after I successfully negotiated with FN to purchase forgings, and believe me that was not easy, but that is another story, and paid all the set up costs at SBL, they did sell semi recievers to other importers, I should had an inclusive contract, well I was only 26 years old at the time and did not think of everything, I will make some call to confirm, but I will bet even if other SBL recievers were marked 1987 they were not imported until late 1988 or after. I had SBL cut my import markings into the recievers so they are easily to see.

And again the Lithgow recievers were 100% complete from the factory, and I had to stamp with a hand stamp my import markings, they were so hard that sometimes the markings ONXY ARMS HLN MT or ONYX ARMS GTF MT barely show, another little known fact Lithgow recievers were tested to 300,000 rounds, yes 300,000 rounds, that does not mean that the recievers failed at 300,000 they did not, it just meant that the Lithgow factory stopped testing after 300,000 rounds, No FN or any other production was ever tested to that extent and even if they were I do not think they would have made it, Lithgow recievers are without a doubt THE BEST IN THE WORLD. I just saw a Lithgow reciever on a aussie kit go for $6025 on gunbroker last week.

Direct link to this quote here:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21921

d_s
December 04, 2017, 15:23
As I have an SBL HB on gunbroker that JUST sold, I have been asked about this REPEATEDLY over the last two months and I have researched this thoroughly. The receivers are made with a block of Belgian steel, milled by SBL in Tel Aviv. The rifles were shipped over as parts kits and built by Armscorp.

So basically, you have excellent to new condition kit and receiver that are true Israeli made, they were however professionally assembled and refinished by Armscorp here in the US. This is as good as it gets if you are looking for a true Israeli Fal and are collectible.